Well, I guess it takes all kinds. Obviously some people think it is 'butt ugly' and others of us think it looks pretty fantastic. But then some liked the so-called GTO and I couldn't rellt stand the thought of it... Different strokes...
Steve, that is exactly what I was talking about! Even down to the extractors on the front fenders behind each wheel. All it needs now to be correct is a wing on the back... And I'd like to see it with some hideaway headlights too even though that wasn't on the original Trans Am. The front end just screams for it. I don't really care for the blue one so much, but as an owner of a 69 Firebird, I love the retro Trans Am!
The front end is Pontiacs "bird" image come to life (sunbird, firebird, hawk--all the other bird-names they have)
Just look at it--its a freaking cartoon of every "bird" ever been in a comic book.
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05:52 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
Welcome to your opinion... Pardon me if I don't join you but remain over here with my own...
I guess that whole Southern redneck thing in my past is kicking in... It's okay.. as seen earlier in the thread I guess us Southern mullet-heads just have to keep all the cool cars to ourselves... My long hair has been called a mullet quite a few times by the uninformed on this forum anyway so I'll take it. I think it looks great.
Welcome to your opinion... Pardon me if I don't join you but remain over here with my own...
I guess that whole Southern redneck thing in my past is kicking in... It's okay.. as seen earlier in the thread I guess us Southern mullet-heads just have to keep all the cool cars to ourselves... My long hair has been called a mullet quite a few times by the uninformed on this forum anyway so I'll take it. I think it looks great.
I'm with Songman here, I think that Firebird looks badass. If anything they should end the GTO for good and just make a Camaro and Firebird on the same platform. It makes more sense, they already failed horribly at bringing back the GTO, by slapping a couple of GTO badges on an Australian Import. I doubt their second attempt on the new platform will do any better.
Also....is 2 years enough time for me to grow a nice mullet?
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07:44 PM
under8ted Member
Posts: 1108 From: Sparta, ON, Canada Registered: Mar 2006
I hear a ROAR of aprovial from Trailer Parks all over the Nation! So raise your can of Pabst blue ribbon and toast GM. And all rednecks said Amen!
Excuse me, Yankee Boy... We say YEEEE HAAWWWWW!
And you know.. there is really no reason to expect any other than the reviews that we are seeing. The Trans Am was always considered a redneck car even in it's heydey. Why should the new one be any different?
[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 08-07-2006).]
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10:16 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 31839 From: Hattiesburg, MS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
My prediction is that the Camaro won't last three years of Production. Don't get me wrong. I think they look great. But, between intial cost, higher insurance and the price of gas, there will be very limited sales and the car will die a slow and painful death. The same thing will happen to the new Challenger and others. I love'm but they won't cut the mustard when gas is 5 bucks a gallon and the resale value will be squat.
------------------ Ron Freedom isn't Free, it's paid for with the blood and dreams of those that have gone before us. My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.
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10:30 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40685 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Originally posted by Tinton: I'm with Songman here, I think that Firebird looks badass. If anything they should end the GTO for good and just make a Camaro and Firebird on the same platform. It makes more sense, they already failed horribly at bringing back the GTO, by slapping a couple of GTO badges on an Australian Import. I doubt their second attempt on the new platform will do any better.
Personally, I like the Firebird variation a little better than the Camaro. It seems to fit the lines a little better. I will reserve further comment until I see either one "in the flesh", though.
It's too bad about the GTO. As heavy as it is, it's still quite fast. And it's probably one of the better built GM cars in recent memory. (You may read whatever you wish into that statement.) I still think that if they had called it a Chevelle, it would have been a success. I always thought it looked like a Chevy, as do most Holden vehicles.
quote
Also....is 2 years enough time for me to grow a nice mullet?
Sure. But you've gotta learn how to drive one of these things.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-07-2006).]
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10:41 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
Personally, I like the Firebird variation a little better than the Camaro. It seems to fit the lines a little better. I will reserve further comment until I see either one "in the flesh", though.
It's too bad about the GTO. As heavy as it is, it's still quite fast. And it's probably one of the better built GM cars in recent memory. (You may read whatever you wish into that statement.) I still think that if they had called it a Chevelle, it would have been a success. I always thought it looked like a Chevy, as do most Holden vehicles.
I have always liked the Pontiac variations better on any car that the platforms shared. Whether it be the LeMans/Chevelle or the Firebird/Camaro or the Grand Prix/Monte Carlo.. Of course, I am leaving out the Buick and Olds versions of these same cars.
I also agree with you about the Chevelle name on the new GTO. I never thought of it that way but it would have been a better fit. I guess Chevy didn't want any other bowtie to compete with the Corvette.
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11:31 PM
Aug 8th, 2006
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
I don't know how many of the "it looks like sh** " crowd have actually seen one in the "flesh." I saw it at the HotRod Magazine Power Tour. Walked all around it.
If this is what you think you will be getting, your wrong. Like I said a few times already...they showed it on the news and it dont look ANYTHING like this. It looks just like the last, discontinued one spruced up a little. If you get one and it DOES look like this, Ill be the first to admit i was wrong.
As for Dodge, they said the wagon would never sell....well now there everywhere. Will gas price stop or even slow sales, no. Mine gets better than 25 mpg with the Hemi....not much different from a Cavalier or other compact car thats a lot smaller.
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07:20 AM
PFF
System Bot
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
This is a prime example of why GM is loosing so much money.
They don’t have any Idea what to build or when.
They are no longer front runners, they are lagging way behind in every field of the business.
They let kids just out of design school make things like this with no idea what the original looked like.
If they are going to make something to bring in the old foggies like me & others that lived when the originals were made, at least try and make them look like the originals.
I always have been a Pontiac man, I cut my teeth on a 67 firebird convertible with the 400, 365hp.
But to make something like this is sacrilege.
No wonder GM is loosing market shares.
------------------ technology is great when it works and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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07:43 AM
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
It should be the best Camaro ever built. Better structure. Alloy V8. Four wheel independent suspension.
Personally - I'd rather have the same chassis with a useable sleeper sedan. The Camaro looks like it would attract too much attention. And if youre gonna have four seats, you might as well have four doors.
Don't believe everything you read in wikipedia. Anyone can post news there. It has been getting reported over here in the press for weeks now as being based on the new VE Holden Commodore platform. That is a good thing as the all new Commodore is supposed to be a world beater. Due for release next month.
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08:51 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Roger, I'd be interested to see where you got the info on the new Camaro being a dressed up version of the last one. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that I find shows the new car as the production model. Even when Jay Leno showed up in one. There certainly are a lot of these around in different colors for it to just be a prototype. Please post links if you have them.
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01:57 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
The first story on the morning news on the Today Show was the announcement that Camaro was coming back in 08. It was only about a 20 second spot and showed an orange one with white dual stripes and a big hood scoop with a single opening coming toward the camera and then a quick side view as it went by. Clearly showed the fender blended side view mirrors. That was all Ive seen. Any other articles ive seen just shows the same old artist rendering or concept pictures. I just got back from picking up parts at a chevy dealership and they dont have a thing with a picture at all either, just print with concept pictures. Show me one on the street with real license plates, then I might buy that the Today Show showed a fake. Ive seen manufacturers paint their ONE concept car a few different colors before to appear like they had at least a few of them. Anyone seen tooling being installed at a shut down factory to stamp them yet? I dont think theyve even mentioned where they plan to assemble them yet. All could be done very quickly with dies already in place for the 2000 body style.
Im just not buying they are building an all new production car this soon after showing a concept considering the state GM is in now. About the only vehicles there making any money off of right now are Corvette and Cadillac...even all truck sales are off.
84Fiero, I was agreeing with you that GM and Ford sales are in the dumper right now. Here theyre even giving you a free years gasoline to take one off their hands.
Songman, Everything ive seen is the same old rendering or concept pics. Maybe they even have a few clones of the concept. Ive yet to see a real picture of one on the road or a road test stating its the new one. If there out there lets see some pics on an assembly lot, car hauler, or anything. why hide a REAL pic of the car. Id at least have big posters up in the dealership showrooms. I know that manufacturers send out preproduction models of new cars for on the road testing prior to selling them. Havent seen a single photo yet. If im wrong, ill take back all I say.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-08-2006).]
The first story on the morning news on the Today Show was the announcement that Camaro was coming back in 08. It was only about a 20 second spot and showed an orange one with white dual stripes and a big hood scoop with a single opening coming toward the camera and then a quick side view as it went by. Clearly showed the fender blended side view mirrors. That was all Ive seen. Any other articles ive seen just shows the same old artist rendering or concept pictures. I just got back from picking up parts at a chevy dealership and they dont have a thing with a picture at all either, just print with concept pictures. Show me one on the street with real license plates, then I might buy that the Today Show showed a fake. Ive seen manufacturers paint their ONE concept car a few different colors before to appear like they had at least a few of them. Anyone seen tooling being installed at a shut down factory to stamp them yet? I dont think theyve even mentioned where they plan to assemble them yet. All could be done very quickly with dies already in place for the 2000 body style.
Im just not buying they are building an all new production car this soon after showing a concept considering the state GM is in now. About the only vehicles there making any money off of right now are Corvette and Cadillac...even all truck sales are off.
84Fiero, I was agreeing with you that GM and Ford sales are in the dumper right now. Here theyre even giving you a free years gasoline to take one off their hands.
Songman, Everything ive seen is the same old rendering or concept pics. Maybe they even have a few clones of the concept. Ive yet to see a real picture of one on the road or a road test stating its the new one. If there out there lets see some pics on an assembly lot, car hauler, or anything. why hide a REAL pic of the car. Id at least have big posters up in the dealership showrooms. I know that manufacturers send out preproduction models of new cars for on the road testing prior to selling them. Havent seen a single photo yet. If im wrong, ill take back all I say.
Now, what you're saying is possible, but its really unlikely. I know GM is full of idiots, but could they really be so stupid as to re-release a 2002 Camaro with molded side mirrors and that's it? It would be suicide, especially against the Challenger and Mustang. Even GM can't be that stupid. They would go to the trouble to bring an old plant back into commission, bait and switch the populace, and expect to sell more than 10,000 units a year? They'd have to be out of their minds. Sorry if I don't really believe what you say Roger, but it just seems so ludicrous. Please, find some proof of what you're talking about. What you probably saw was them driving a 2002 SS around because they couldn't get their hands on a 2009 prototype.
Possibly. I still find it strange they dont have any pics floating around of a real car. I guess we will all have to wait and see what comes out for a final answer. Either you who get an all new car or I will get to gloat then. I also still cant see how they could possibly pull this one out of their azz so quickly but who knows....might work wonders when your company is on the verge of bankruptcy.
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04:45 PM
cccharlie Member
Posts: 2006 From: North Smithfield, RI Registered: Jan 2003
Originally posted by AusFiero: Don't believe everything you read in wikipedia. Anyone can post news there. It has been getting reported over here in the press for weeks now as being based on the new VE Holden Commodore platform. That is a good thing as the all new Commodore is supposed to be a world beater. Due for release next month.
quote
From wikipedia article on GM zeta platform: Zeta is the original name for General Motors' mid-size rear-wheel drive automobile platform now referred to as the "Global RWD Architecture".
Current vehicles using this platform:
2006 VE Holden Commodore, Released: 16th July 2006.
[This message has been edited by cccharlie (edited 08-08-2006).]
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08:34 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
How about Jay Leno driving one to a Classic Car Meet?
I agree that they probably just pulled up an old stock photo. It would be ridiculous to cancel the Camaro and then bring it back as the same thing. There are too many things going on with this for it to be 'just a concept' at this point.
Here is a good article that tells pretty much that the concept is being built. We'll know for sure in a couple of days...
FREE PRESS EXCLUSIVE: Camaro to roar back by 2008
GM to announce Chevy going from concept to streets
August 6, 2006
BY TOM WALSH and MARK PHELAN FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITERS
It's really happening: The Chevy Camaro is coming back as a production car, the Free Press has learned. General Motors Corp. Chairman Rick Wagoner is expected to announce the resurrection of the legendary muscle car in a speech Thursday to an automotive conference in Traverse City.
The auto industry has been buzzing with speculation about GM's plans for the Camaro ever since the carmaker wowed the crowds at the 2006 North American International Auto Show in January with a stunning 400-horsepower concept. At a time when truck and SUV sales are softening and car sales are regaining momentum, a sexy new entry could give GM's entire passenger-car line a boost.
The production version could be built as early as 2008 and will offer three engines, a V-6 and two V-8s, according to people familiar with the plans. GM spokesman Steve Harris would not comment Friday on plans for the Camaro, but other sources told the Free Press that GM's top management and board of directors have green-lighted the car.
The Camaro was introduced in 1966 as the answer to the Ford Mustang, and it prowled America's streets and drag strips until production ended in 2002. Like the concept, the production Camaro will be based on GM's new Zeta global architecture for rear-wheel-drive cars, expected to form the basis for several big, powerful sedans and coupes to be introduced over the next few years.
It was unclear last week where GM intends to build the Camaro. Speculation in the automotive press has centered on assembly plants in Oshawa, Ontario, and Wilmington, Del.
Other unanswered questions are sure to keep the buzz going even after Wagoner's announcement:
How many people will buy a Camaro in the age of $3.15-per-gallon gasoline?
What will it cost?
And what about bringing back the Pontiac Firebird/TransAm?
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08:34 PM
CTFieroGT87 Member
Posts: 2520 From: Royal Oak, MI Registered: Oct 2002
Well, I've had the privilege to accidentally find a garage that housed that exact Camaro Jay Leno is driving there. That is exactly what it is going to look like, sorry Roger. Bob Lutz decreed a while ago (dunno why nobody heard this) that the approach to the Camaro was going to be very similar to the Solstice, very minimal to no changes from the concept vehicle. Truthfully, I thought it looked like junk... until I saw it in person. I'm finding that trend a LOT more nowadays, you absolutely have to see the cars in person to really get an opinion of it. And I got to tell you, this thing is going to look KILLER rolling down the street.
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09:04 PM
Aug 9th, 2006
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
I love how GM try to call it global. GM head office had nothing to do with it. Call it what it is. Not a Zeta platform. It is a Commodore platform. Looks like Lutz is yet again jsut stealing from Holden and calling it his brain child.
[This message has been edited by AusFiero (edited 08-09-2006).]
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07:57 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
I guess we just have to wait and see. GM itself had said it would be a 2010 model when they first showed it. In the object of all fairness this is the answer I got in a query from NBC TV.....
"Roger,
To my knowledge GM has not released any pictures or concept renderings of the new Camaro. The car we showed Monday morning was pictures of a 2002 Camaro that was given to our news service by GM.
If I see anything in the coming weeks I will pass them on to you.
Thanks for watching,
Mark Yoder Producer, NBC 4 Today"
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08:07 AM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
So there's the answer. It was a stock photo of an 02 Camaro. And when GM first released the views of the prototype they said it would probably be 2010. Now they are saying 09 or as early as 08. It is GM afterall.... Sorta like Microsoft.
And Jim, in all fairness, Holden is still GM. So whether he should do it or not, Lutz can call it what he wants since he is the head of GM. It is still a GM product regardless of what continent. I don't really care where the tech came from as long as it is this car and they price it where people can actually afford it. We don't need another Corvette-priced car from GM.
[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 08-09-2006).]
Originally posted by Songman: How many people will buy a Camaro in the age of $3.15-per-gallon gasoline?
Well, how many people will continue driving Fieros with $3.15 per gallon gas? When I had my Z28 with the LS1 I consistently got 20's around town and mid-upper 20's highway. I can't get better than that with either of my Fieros, and their engines are only 1/2 the displacement. The new Camaro will probably be getting cylinder deactivation, so it'll cruise with 4-cylinders, further increasing fuel economy. Today's V8's aren't exactly gas guzzlers, gas consumption seems to be related to vehicle size. Big SUV = 12 mpg, V8 Camaro coupe = 24 mpg.
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02:05 PM
PFF
System Bot
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Beating a dead horse, but Im still waiting to see. I still cant understand why GM would furnish video of a 2002 car with the announcment of a new introduction...makes me think their hiding something...
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02:45 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by Songman: How many people will buy a Camaro in the age of $3.15-per-gallon gasoline?
{B]Originally posted by Songman:[/B] Well, how many people will continue driving Fieros with $3.15 per gallon gas? When I had my Z28 with the LS1 I consistently got 20's around town and mid-upper 20's highway. I can't get better than that with either of my Fieros, and their engines are only 1/2 the displacement. The new Camaro will probably be getting cylinder deactivation, so it'll cruise with 4-cylinders, further increasing fuel economy. Today's V8's aren't exactly gas guzzlers, gas consumption seems to be related to vehicle size. Big SUV = 12 mpg, V8 Camaro coupe = 24 mpg.
I was confused! haha.. I knew I didn't say that.. It was in the article that I pasted... Personally I'm going to drive the car I want regardless of gas prices. Yeah, I'll complain that gas is too high but I am not going to stop going places I want to go or stop driving cars I want to drive. My 355 kit is over 450 HP and will be a total gas hog. I am in the middle of building the SBC for the 34 Ford and it will be a gas guzzling hot rod too... Like people have said, in America we have the lowest gas prices in the world so we will probably catch up. Oh well...
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02:49 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
Beating a dead horse, but Im still waiting to see. I still cant understand why GM would furnish video of a 2002 car with the announcment of a new introduction...makes me think their hiding something...
I don't think GM did.. I think the station just grabbed something to go along with the story. Do you not think it would be corporate suicide to bring back almost the same car that they discontinued a few years prior? That car wasn't that poular to being with so why would they bring it back?
Originally posted by AusFiero: I love how GM try to call it global. GM head office had nothing to do with it. Call it what it is. Not a Zeta platform. It is a Commodore platform. Looks like Lutz is yet again jsut stealing from Holden and calling it his brain child.
Take it easy, dude. I think youre looking at this the wrong way.
They are planning to use / sell this platform globally.
No one is claiming that it was developed globally.
IIRC - Lutz supposedly stuck his nose into Zeta development because he was worried that the platform was going to be expensive. There was no point in producing RWD architecture that was just as expensive as the existing Sigma platform (Caddy CTS / STS).
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04:48 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
Bing, Bing, Bing.................Raydar is the winner! The news release that I saw the other night showed file footage of the last generation Camaro instead of the next generation. Oh, I forgiot to add, I've been saving for a new turbo Solstice, but I like the new Camaro so much, I'm holding off on the Solstice purchase to see what transpires. I love the first generation Camaro, and I've always wanted one. To me, this new one resembles the first generation Camaro with a chop-top and enough synthetic testosterone to get it disqualified form the Tour-de-France. I guess those who don't like the design would rather have a remake of the current Monte-Carlo?
[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 08-09-2006).]
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06:11 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Those pics have got to be the ugliest damn thing on wheels since ford built the fiesta.
If this is what the car industry is comming to----I'm taking up Bycicles.
Preach on brother, the camaro is ugly as hell, and I still say it looks like a late 90s stang. The challenger is nothing but sexy and in answer so someones question yes it will come with a pistol grip 6 speed 6.1 HEMI... Shamokin.