" A congressman under investigation for bribery was caught on videotape accepting $100,000 in $100 bills from an FBI informant whose conversations with the lawmaker also were recorded, according to a court document released Sunday. Agents later found the cash hidden in his freezer.
At one audiotaped meeting, Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., chuckles about writing in code to keep secret what the government contends was his corrupt role in getting his children a cut of a communications company's deal for work in Africa."
I'm sure that the rest of the libs on here will plead they havent been attention to the news etc But they're always posting as soon as anyone with an R associated with their name f's up. Just goes to show you that corruption in the Beltway goes both ways.
Honestly think we shoud start voting more 3rd partys in and even then we need/want term limits.
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05:20 PM
PFF
System Bot
87GT_97114 Member
Posts: 566 From: Dayton, Oregon, USA Registered: Mar 2005
I'm starting to think it's time to vote out every f'n one of them. They are out of touch with us and don't really seem to care, we're just a bunch of ignorant rubes. This goes from the top down, clear to the city/county level.
------------------ '87 GT, daily driver '78 Toyota longbed, parts runner '84 F250 Xcab, BIG parts runner '87 30' Kit Classic TT, living in it.
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06:31 PM
Spektrum-87GT Member
Posts: 1601 From: Yorktown, VA Registered: Aug 2001
I'm starting to think it's time to vote out every f'n one of them. They are out of touch with us and don't really seem to care, we're just a bunch of ignorant rubes. This goes from the top down, clear to the city/county level.
+1
I can't stand either side. Get rid of them all.
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06:53 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20700 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
That's normal for La, on all fronts. Has been for many many decades. The price of doing business there included bribes for just about everyone. Edwin Edwards used to brag about it.
I would have thought Wichita was about 45 years younger than that picture makes him look.
I heard about this on NPR this morning with a long story, though I'm sure I've probably heard bits and pieces in the past. Assuming the information that was leaked out of the prosecutor's office is correct then I expect this guy to be locked up for a long time, a good thing IMHO.
JazzMan
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01:31 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Yes... I see the analogy. A single democrat versus: * Jack Abramoff * Adam Kidan * Tony Rudy * Michael Scanlon * Neil Volz * David Safavian * Bob Ney * Tom DeLay * Ed Buckham * Ralph Reed * Grover Norquist * Team Abramoff * Konstantinos "Gus" Boulis
One man makes not a culture. (and before we get into this, let's try to keep it in this century). Anyway, don't take this as a defence of the dumbass... he's going to jail, along with the rest of those morons.
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
Where is Pelosi and her "Culture of Corruption" rant when it actually makes sense?
[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 05-22-2006).]
Yes... I see the analogy. A single democrat versus: * Jack Abramoff * Adam Kidan * Tony Rudy * Michael Scanlon * Neil Volz * David Safavian * Bob Ney * Tom DeLay * Ed Buckham * Ralph Reed * Grover Norquist * Team Abramoff * Konstantinos "Gus" Boulis
One man makes not a culture. (and before we get into this, let's try to keep it in this century). Anyway, don't take this as a defence of the dumbass... he's going to jail, along with the rest of those morons.
Yeah, it's typical. The press doesn't hammer down the the Republicans, but as soon as a Democrat gets in trouble, they hammer down on them like they are trash. i don't like it one bit.
------------------ '94 Bonneville SSEi - 115k Law of Mechanical Repair: After your hands become coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch or you'll have to pee... never fails.
I agree. They are all trash and should be trashed equally and without discrimination in the media.
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero87: Yeah, it's typical. The press doesn't hammer down the the Republicans, but as soon as a Democrat gets in trouble, they hammer down on them like they are trash. i don't like it one bit.
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05:31 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Yes... I see the analogy. A single democrat versus: * Jack Abramoff * Adam Kidan * Tony Rudy * Michael Scanlon * Neil Volz * David Safavian * Bob Ney * Tom DeLay * Ed Buckham * Ralph Reed * Grover Norquist * Team Abramoff * Konstantinos "Gus" Boulis
One man makes not a culture. (and before we get into this, let's try to keep it in this century). Anyway, don't take this as a defence of the dumbass... he's going to jail, along with the rest of those morons.
Uh, OK, let's forget that half the names on that list are NOT Republicans and the other half have not been convicted of anything. "Team Abramoff"? I don't recall seeing his name on an election ballot. Where did he run? And Jack Abrahmoff? NEWFLASH, not an elected official. He was a lobbyist who had poured as much money into Dems coffers as Republicans.
Do you REALLY want to do a name by name list. Stop associting crimes to people where NO conviction exist. I know the NEW YORK TIMES is trying to do that but think for yourself will ya.
Let me answer for you, NO, you do not want to compare convicitons!!!!! From Bill Clinton to today's latest embarrassment to the Democrats (Homeland Security Deputy Brian Doyle) and his attempt to solicit sex from a minor, the Democratic Party is dangerous.
* Number close to the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 44 * Number of convictions during his administration: 33 * Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61 * Number of imprisonments: 14 * Number of presidential impeachments: 1 * Number of independent counsel investigations: 7 * Number of congressional witnesses pleading the 5th Amendment: 72 * Number of witnesses fleeing the country to avoid testifying: 17 * Number of foreign witnesses who have declined interviews by investigative bodies: 19
The Clinton machine now holds the record for the administration with:
* The most number of convictions and guilty pleas * The most number of cabinet members to come under criminal investigation * The most number of witnesses to flee the country or refuse to testify * The most number of key witnesses to die suddenly * The greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions * The greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad.
You could go on and on, but sadly George Bush is not getting any traction from reality. Ask any Liberal and "it's all about sex". Oh, and BTW what is the Bush Admin total? 1 Indictment - status still to be determined in the Delay case.
Only a Liberal could point a finger at Delay and keep a straight face.
Oh, BTW, Since you want to "KEEP IT IN THIS CENTURY" here are a list of some of the 16 Democrats CONVICTED...not accused...CONVICTED of voter fraud, attempted murder, tax evasion, obstruction of justice, etc in just the last 9 months!!!!!!!
1) Sheila Thomas – convicted of conspiracy and vote fraud and faces up to five years in prison for each charge. She was a Precinct Committee member. 2) Charlie Powell Jr., - convicted of conspiracy to commit voter fraud. He was head of the St. Louis Democratic Central Committee and a former city council member. He faces five years in prison. 3) Kelvin Ellis, - Convicted of ATTEMPTED MURDER OF A REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE, tax evasion, voter fraud and obstruction of justice was a Democratic precinct committeeman and former East St. Louis city government department head who served a federal prison term for extortion in the early 1990s. 4) Yvette Johnson - convicted of conspiracy and vote fraud and faces up to five years in prison for each charge was a secretary in the Democratic Central Committee 5) Jesse Lewis -convicted of conspiracy and vote fraud and faces up to five years in prison for each charge. Another Precinct committee member. 6) Frank Balance – convicted of conspiring to divert taxpayer money to his friends and family through the charitable organization he founded in 1985. The North Carolina Democrat and now former member of the US House of Representatives, was sentenced to four years in prison on Oct. 12. 7) Republican Tom Wilson of New Jersey forced to file suit after the November election where 4755 DEAD Democrats voted! The suit is still pending but you can bet heads will roll. 8) Tom Esposito – convicted of voter fraud. The former Logan County West Virginia Democratic Mayor, faces up to three years of federal prison time. 9) Glen D. Adkins – convicted of voter fraud. The former County Clerk faces 3 years in prison. A DOZEN other people have been charged, including Lincoln County Circuit Clerk Greg Stowers, who has pleaded not guilty to conspiring to buy votes. 10) Perry French Harvey Jr. –convicted of conspiring with another person to get a House of Delegates candidate elected. Harvey is accused of accepting $2,000 to pay for votes. 11) Marion Barry – Convicted The former mayor and current D.C. City Councilman Marion Barry was sentenced Thursday to three years of probation for failing to file local or federal income tax returns. Barry pleaded guilty last October to two misdemeanor charges after admitting to earning $534,000 from 1999 and 2004 and not filing the required tax returns. 12) Leroy Scott, convicted the former Democratic committeeman for Precinct 38, pleaded guilty nearly a year ago to taking part in a conspiracy to pay East St. Louis residents $5 and $10 apiece to vote for Democratic candidates in the November 2004 election. 13) Lillie Nichols and Terrance Stith convicted. They testified against some of the city Democratic Party's most powerful players, helping federal prosecutors win the biggest vote fraud case in St. Clair County history last spring. Nonetheless, a federal judge Friday sentenced Nichols, 52, and Stith, 44, each to four months in prison after their guilty pleas to aiding a vote-buying scheme.
Jeremiah, if you read it in the newspaper, it's probably BS. Stop absorbing and start thinking.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 05-22-2006).]
Whoa... you're getting off track here. Going off to your rightwing blogosphere and pulling the tried-and-true list of democrat scandals just isn't going to cut it. You're said blabhalbh culture of corruption: you have a list of people that aren't even connected.
If you're telling me there are bad Democrats then I completely agree - just as there are bad republicans. But your implication was that there was some sort of underlying conspiracy going on with Dems. There isn't. Dems haven't had the organization since Clinton.
So, culture of corruption it is. Besides, since this thread is about a man that is only being accused, I simply provided a cut and paste list from wikipedia regarding the Abramoff scandal... some of them, of course, have plead guilty. Consequently, all of them are Republican... which was the point.
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
Uh, OK, let's forget that half the names on that list are NOT Republicans and the other half have not been convicted of anything. "Team Abramoff"? I don't recall seeing his name on an election ballot. Where did he run? And Jack Abrahmoff? NEWFLASH, not an elected official. He was a lobbyist who had poured as much money into Dems coffers as Republicans.
Do you REALLY want to do a name by name list. Stop associting crimes to people where NO conviction exist. I know the NEW YORK TIMES is trying to do that but think for yourself will ya.
Let me answer for you, NO, you do not want to compare convicitons!!!!! From Bill Clinton to today's latest embarrassment to the Democrats (Homeland Security Deputy Brian Doyle) and his attempt to solicit sex from a minor, the Democratic Party is dangerous.
* Number close to the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 44 * Number of convictions during his administration: 33 * Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61 * Number of imprisonments: 14 * Number of presidential impeachments: 1 * Number of independent counsel investigations: 7 * Number of congressional witnesses pleading the 5th Amendment: 72 * Number of witnesses fleeing the country to avoid testifying: 17 * Number of foreign witnesses who have declined interviews by investigative bodies: 19
The Clinton machine now holds the record for the administration with:
* The most number of convictions and guilty pleas * The most number of cabinet members to come under criminal investigation * The most number of witnesses to flee the country or refuse to testify * The most number of key witnesses to die suddenly * The greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions * The greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad.
You could go on and on, but sadly George Bush is not getting any traction from reality. Ask any Liberal and "it's all about sex". Oh, and BTW what is the Bush Admin total? 1 Indictment - status still to be determined in the Delay case.
Only a Liberal could point a finger at Delay and keep a straight face.
Oh, BTW, Since you want to "KEEP IT IN THIS CENTURY" here are a list of some of the 16 Democrats CONVICTED...not accused...CONVICTED of voter fraud, attempted murder, tax evasion, obstruction of justice, etc in just the last 9 months!!!!!!!
1) Sheila Thomas – convicted of conspiracy and vote fraud and faces up to five years in prison for each charge. She was a Precinct Committee member. 2) Charlie Powell Jr., - convicted of conspiracy to commit voter fraud. He was head of the St. Louis Democratic Central Committee and a former city council member. He faces five years in prison. 3) Kelvin Ellis, - Convicted of ATTEMPTED MURDER OF A REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE, tax evasion, voter fraud and obstruction of justice was a Democratic precinct committeeman and former East St. Louis city government department head who served a federal prison term for extortion in the early 1990s. 4) Yvette Johnson - convicted of conspiracy and vote fraud and faces up to five years in prison for each charge was a secretary in the Democratic Central Committee 5) Jesse Lewis -convicted of conspiracy and vote fraud and faces up to five years in prison for each charge. Another Precinct committee member. 6) Frank Balance – convicted of conspiring to divert taxpayer money to his friends and family through the charitable organization he founded in 1985. The North Carolina Democrat and now former member of the US House of Representatives, was sentenced to four years in prison on Oct. 12. 7) Republican Tom Wilson of New Jersey forced to file suit after the November election where 4755 DEAD Democrats voted! The suit is still pending but you can bet heads will roll. 8) Tom Esposito – convicted of voter fraud. The former Logan County West Virginia Democratic Mayor, faces up to three years of federal prison time. 9) Glen D. Adkins – convicted of voter fraud. The former County Clerk faces 3 years in prison. A DOZEN other people have been charged, including Lincoln County Circuit Clerk Greg Stowers, who has pleaded not guilty to conspiring to buy votes. 10) Perry French Harvey Jr. –convicted of conspiring with another person to get a House of Delegates candidate elected. Harvey is accused of accepting $2,000 to pay for votes. 11) Marion Barry – Convicted The former mayor and current D.C. City Councilman Marion Barry was sentenced Thursday to three years of probation for failing to file local or federal income tax returns. Barry pleaded guilty last October to two misdemeanor charges after admitting to earning $534,000 from 1999 and 2004 and not filing the required tax returns. 12) Leroy Scott, convicted the former Democratic committeeman for Precinct 38, pleaded guilty nearly a year ago to taking part in a conspiracy to pay East St. Louis residents $5 and $10 apiece to vote for Democratic candidates in the November 2004 election. 13) Lillie Nichols and Terrance Stith convicted. They testified against some of the city Democratic Party's most powerful players, helping federal prosecutors win the biggest vote fraud case in St. Clair County history last spring. Nonetheless, a federal judge Friday sentenced Nichols, 52, and Stith, 44, each to four months in prison after their guilty pleas to aiding a vote-buying scheme.
Jeremiah, if you read it in the newspaper, it's probably BS. Stop absorbing and start thinking.
[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 05-22-2006).]
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07:36 PM
dezie36 Member
Posts: 2501 From: Moved to Okemos, Mi, USA Registered: Feb 2005
Same damn argument every right wing nut has with every left wing nut! If I have to vote for a nut I’ll go with the nut that'll help the poor, help the sick, help the needy, and yes I’ll even put up with their bitching about swearing in music if it means I don’t have to vote for anyone who would push their religious beliefs on me.
So can we stop this stupid insistent argument that we’ve all seen played out a million times on countless Internet forums? Because, frankly no one ever wins these pitiful fights and its just a waste of Cliff's bandwidth.
[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 05-22-2006).]
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11:14 PM
May 23rd, 2006
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
Do you REALLY want to do a name by name list. Stop associting crimes to people where NO conviction exist. I know the NEW YORK TIMES is trying to do that but think for yourself will ya.
Umm... might want to talk to Uaana about that one, he started this thread with that very concept.
From the story, I think they nailed him cold HA! Money in freezer... cold... it's a joke... get it? Get it?
I remember a couple of administrations worth of this during Clinton's time in office with each scandal dredged up, why should the democrats or independants stop now that it's republicans in charge? The republican pundits had a field day declaring Clinton and party guilty guilty guilty of everything... before being found guilty. I consider his crimes ( and felt he should have been kicked out of office for lying to a judge, the sex wasn't the issue) minor compared to what this administration and it's cronies have done.
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01:25 AM
sostock Member
Posts: 5907 From: Grain Valley, MO Registered: May 2005
how many people store money in the fridge? my in laws do it and now my wife does it. drives me nuts. like if the house burns down i'm going to be worried about that $10 check from grandma.
i wonder when police search a house if that's the first place they look? maybe in the toilet water tank too.
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02:11 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
you have a list of people that aren't even connected.
Read it again Jeremiah, several of the names are co-conspirators, NOT isolated individuals. In fact, the top 5 names on that list were convicted in the same trial for voter fraud.
quote
If you're telling me there are bad Democrats then I completely agree - just as there are bad republicans. But your implication was that there was some sort of underlying conspiracy going on with Dems. There isn't. Dems haven't had the organization since Clinton.
Respectfully disagree. Pelosi has a looking glass mentality and is calling the Republican Party a culture of corruption which is beyond the pale. One or two Republicans are guilty and convicted of crimes and I hope they rot in jail. They do a HUGE dis-service to the rest of the party which is honest and hard working. The Democrats on the other hand truly ARE a culture of corruption. This is not speculation or politicing. It is not based on accusations and finger pointing but on REAL Court Room convictions and it should alarm ALL Americans. On the Federal Level only 1 Republican (A California Congressman) has been convicted of a misdemeanor/felony crime. In that same time more than a dozen Federal Democrats have been convicted of such crimes. Adn I have not even mentioned state and local levels of government.
quote
So, culture of corruption it is. Besides, since this thread is about a man that is only being accused, I simply provided a cut and paste list from wikipedia regarding the Abramoff scandal... some of them, of course, have plead guilty. Consequently, all of them are Republican... which was the point.
The point was missed since Abramoff is NOT a Republican Official. It does not surprise me that you think he is since the Left Leaning media wants to associate anything negative with the Republican Party. But the fact is that Jack Abramoff is an independant lobbyist who used influence pedaling to help anyone with a big enough checkbook. And that included Democrats and Republicans alike. In fact, Harry Reid, Senate Minority leader benefitted from jack Abramoff to the tune of over $100,000! Not surprisingly, this gets little coverage on the news.
The fact that some on this forum buy the BS from the general News Media is that frustrating part. It takes guys like me on chat forums to get the truth out there. That is a terrifying prospect for the General American public. Fortunately the American people are seeing the truth. Radical newspapers like the San Francisco Chronicle, New York Times, etc, have seen staggering declines in circulation as people are fed-up with reading 100% horseshit on a daily basis.
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12:12 PM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
On the Federal Level only 1 Republican (A California Congressman) has been convicted of a misdemeanor/felony crime. In that same time more than a dozen Federal Democrats have been convicted of such crimes. Adn I have not even mentioned state and local levels of government.
Hmmm... your list is filled with people at local levels and a mayor not filing tax returns (his city gets what they deserve, they voted him back in after his drug bust...). Did fit one Rep in there at least to make a tie to the Federal level, just like he did. Republicans are apparently better at coverups
last 9 months? You skipped this one... former Gov. George Ryan convicted of 18 felony charges in federal court last month. Republican
It isn't a democrat or republican issue, the whole bunch is full of crooks. But you ignore the federal top level scandals that aren't even getting investigated or get stonewalled because the people involved are the ones running the country, and worry about a guy paying people $5 to vote?
We've got corporations with tight government ties getting billions more in contracts after getting nailed for overcharging the government by hundreds of millions in their no bid contracts that the government gave out after overriding an Army lawyers recommendation against them. And these local guys are doing hard time for guiding contracts... geez. Same company that is charging us $28 a plate for soldiers meals is paying it's non american employees $100-300 a month in wages, it's american unskilled employees make $6,000-$8,000 a month. I find which issues y'all find relevent interesting. Any updates on the Iraqi infrastructure Haliburton and companies have been building?
Oops... sidetracked a post designed to sidetrack.
[This message has been edited by Scott-Wa (edited 05-23-2006).]
The spin on this is just nuts. I step back and watch the local Republican parrots spinning around like whirling dirvishes. I wonder if they realize the dance floor is getting fairly empty lately? Probably not, they're too tuned up with their internal music to hear.
I wonder if I should start a thread titled "Filthy Repukes", then sit back to watch the feeding frenzy? Nah, because the only feeders there will be the same ones here.
JazzMan
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06:45 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Hmmm... your list is filled with people at local levels
Well Jeremiah specified he wanted "recent" examples but if you want federal examples here are plenty of familiar names:
- Rep. Charles Diggs Jr., D-Mich., was convicted in 1978 of operating a payroll kickback scheme in his congressional office. He served seven months of a three-year prison term. He was re-elected, then resigned in 1980. - Rep. Michael Myers, D-Pa., served 20 1/2 months of a three-year prison sentence for accepting bribes from FBI agents impersonating Arab businessmen. He was convicted in 1980 and expelled from Congress. - Four other House members were convicted in the Arab businessmen bribery scandal: Democratic Reps. John Murphy of New York, Frank Thompson of New Jersey, John Jenrette of South Carolina and Raymond Lederer of Pennsylvania. Thompson and Murphy were sentenced to three years; Jenrette, two years; and Lederer, one year. - Rep. Mario Biaggi, D-N.Y., was convicted in 1988 of extorting nearly $2 million from defense contractor Wedtech Corp. He resigned from Congress and served two years and two months of an eight-year sentence. He was defeated in his 1992 re-election bid. - Rep. Mel Reynolds, D-Ill., was sentenced in 1995 to five years in prison for having sex with an underage campaign worker. He resigned from Congress, then was sentenced in 1997 to 6 1/2 years for bank fraud and other violations. The second sentence, which was to run at the same time as the first, was commuted in 2001 by President Clinton. ( they probably had a frat party together and invited over all the interns) - Rep. Walter Tucker III, D-Calif., was sentenced in 1996 to two years and three months in prison for accepting and demanding bribes while mayor of a Los Angeles suburb. He resigned from Congress a week after his 1995 conviction. - Rep. Dan Rostenkowski, D-Ill., pleaded guilty in 1996 to two felony mail fraud charges, lost re-election and served 15 months in prison. Clinton pardoned him in 2000. - Rep. James A. Trafficant, D-Ohio, was convicted of 10 counts of bribery, conspiracy and racketeering, expelled from Congress and sentenced in 2002 to eight years in prison.
quote
It isn't a democrat or republican issue, the whole bunch is full of crooks.
This is where we part company. I can't argue that there are bad guys on both sides of the isle but a few bad apples does not mean that every politician is a crook. I know many I consider good friends and valued citizens.
My point is that there is a concerted effort by the Democratic leadership recently to label Republicans as corrupt when the record shows a vastly larger number of Democrats being convicted (not just accused) of crimes. And I don't mean parking tickets, I mean bribary, voter fraud, perjury, obstruction of justice, tax evasion, assault and attempted murder, etc.
Everytime Pelosi goes into her Max Headroom routine about a "culture of corruption" I can't help but be flabbergasted by the hypocracy.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 05-23-2006).]
