One other thought / option - National Guard. After researching the options, that's the best package we could find at this paticular snapshot in time.

I'm the "odd ball" in the family (i.e. non military). Brother is retired Naval Captain. Sister is FBI. Brother-in-law is ex-CIA. Nephew is a Naval surgeon. Another nephew is an XO of the 101st in Irag right now. My oldest son just signed into active duty for the National Guard on the split-training option. He leaves for basic the end of this month, comes back at the end of the summer to finish high school, then off to MOS next summer (combat engineer - i.e. he gets to play with C4 all summer ). He is on a 6+2 option (most do a 4+4), 20k signing bonus, GI bill, etc, etc. He can be comissioned 2 yrs into college, and promoted upon completion of college. He can add ROTC to this too if he wants. His package gives him the option to deploy if his unit is called up while he is still in school, but it is not mandatory. He comes out of college with only 14 years to go to full miltary benfit retirement (but I'm sure he'll stay longer). If he wants, he can stay active Guard but to do that he will probably have to resign his commission as there are not many officer jobs in the active Guard. He is definately a career man - so from the NG, he can transfer to pretty much any branch but he will probably stay Army (maybe slide over to Marines).

I think too many people look to join the military for the wrong reasons. If that's what they really desire then fine, but don't just go there because you can't think of what else to do. I recommend to all high school students they look at:

http://www.livecareer.com/

It costs $30 or so to get the final report, but it's darn well worth it. I had both my two oldest boys take this program before I let them start heading this direction. It pegged my boys spot on (military was #1 option for both of them by quite a large margin). Others I have seen go thru this program have been directed towards teaching, engineering, accounting, etc. Best to get trained in a job you will really like doing.

quote Originally posted by RTNmsds: One other thought / option - National Guard. After researching the options, that's the best package we could find at this paticular snapshot in time. I'm the "odd ball" in the family (i.e. non military). Brother is retired Naval Captain. Sister is FBI. Brother-in-law is ex-CIA. Nephew is a Naval surgeon. Another nephew is an XO of the 101st in Irag right now. My oldest son just signed into active duty for the National Guard on the split-training option. He leaves for basic the end of this month, comes back at the end of the summer to finish high school, then off to MOS next summer (combat engineer - i.e. he gets to play with C4 all summer ). He is on a 6+2 option (most do a 4+4), 20k signing bonus, GI bill, etc, etc. He can be comissioned 2 yrs into college, and promoted upon completion of college. He can add ROTC to this too if he wants. His package gives him the option to deploy if his unit is called up while he is still in school, but it is not mandatory. He comes out of college with only 14 years to go to full miltary benfit retirement (but I'm sure he'll stay longer). If he wants, he can stay active Guard but to do that he will probably have to resign his commission as there are not many officer jobs in the active Guard. He is definately a career man - so from the NG, he can transfer to pretty much any branch but he will probably stay Army (maybe slide over to Marines).

OMG, thank you for a great laugh tonight. This paragraph is filled with soooo many half-truths and hype and pure BS, I had to clean off my screen......

4x4 contracts haven't been offered for about 15 years.

$20,000 in bonus money......(If he stays enlisted. If he goes officer, kiss any installment after that good-bye)

2 years of college and yep, one can get a direct commission. Don't make 1LT in 3 years and the commission is taken away. (To make 1LT you MUST have a college degree now. Hope he's on the 4 year plan.)

ROTC....yes, if he doesn't take a direct commission after 2 years of college. Kinda senseless to take Reserve Officer TRAINING Corp AFTER you're an officer

"His package gives him the option to deploy if his unit is called up while he is still in school, but it is not mandatory." Yes.......IN HIGH SCHOOL. College is a whole new ballgame. They can call you up anytime AFTER college and you WILL go.

"If he wants, he can stay active Guard but to do that he will probably have to resign his commission as there are not many officer jobs in the active Guard." Riiiiiiight, there is only a shortage of 50% of officers in the Army right now. (And he's a TPU or participating Guardsman. And ACTIVE Guardsman plays army 24/7 as a fulltime job.

"He comes out of college with only 14 years to go to full miltary benfit retirement" Yes, he'll retire at 38 and wait until age 60 before he's eligible for retirement pay.

Like I said, vega, I'm willing to put you in touch with a Recruiter that used to work for me. I'll translate and filter his sales pitch and give you the reality of the benefits so he won't be disillusioned like the previous poster was.

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 05-04-2006).]

This is not my usual venture to post here but here it goes.

Any one willing to raise thier right hand is worthy of serving regardless of thier personal desires. Each service has thier short comings. It doesn't really matter what a person wants because when they get to boot everything they thought goes out the window. Each service will motivate you in the fashion in which they see fit. You may join for one set of personal goals, but in 4 years ones views of the world change dramatically. I know of no one in the services who hasn't been changed by thier personal experiences in the military. Some good and some bad but all affect you and you change. Alot of folks have beat up on the kid. Stuff it. Let him raise his hand and find out what its all about. If he's a derelict to society he won't last long, I don't care what branch. If serving in the military will validate some personal goal and he can do it honorably then no one here can criticize the lad. He will have already done more with his life than some derelicts accomplish in a life time.

As for the down side. Dont want combat, tough. We are at war and no one single service will be carrying the load. For the folks who think the reserves or national guard is the way to go. I can tell you first hand that tens of thousands of men and women are activated right now. Some for 1 year, some for alot more. No single unit is excempt from deploying. I see Marines, Army, Navy Air Force and yes I have seen a Coast Guard detachment in my recent travels. Let him raise his hand make his own choice.

FWIW I have been serving honorably for 15 years. I've seen'em come and go. I even helped a couple out to the front gate with my boot right behind them.

Just my .02 cents
88Ironduke

------------------
Pilots with out maintainers are just pedestrians with a cool jacket and sunglasses.
I.Y.A.M.Y.A.S.

The military deploys to hot spots all over the world, and if the motive for joining is to see what's in it for me, and he really does not want to participate in what's going on in the middle east, he will be really unhappy about "serving". All branches deploy and fight to some degree... period. Now if he has no problem joining and doing the job he is asked to do, then sign up. There are plenty of opportunities to do things like complete an education, and gain technical skills along the way.

There is not one branch that is better than the other. They each have thier own "way of life" If you ask a hard core Marine which service is best, he or she will say the Corp... after all "once a Marine, always a Marine... Semper Fi!" If you ask an Air Force person the question they will show you a picture of that poster on page one of this thread. I can tell you first hand, while there might be a slight bit of truth to the difference in some living conditions amongst the branches, the difference is starting to blur.

BTW I am active duty Air Force, and I love it. I have 24 years under my belt, and if things go my way, I will serve six more. I joined to get an education, but something happened along the way. I got that education (competed three degrees), but I grew up and matured in the Air Force as well. The things I've seen and learned, the places I've been, the cultures that I've experienced and the people I've met made me the person that I've become. I wish I could do it all again... but that is me.

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: from your myspace profile

I don't care who you are, thats funny right there..


Just as a sidenote before I attempt to get myself out of this thread, i hardly think making up two ages to prove your not him really proves anything..

I agree with those that said if he doesn't want to/isn't willing to serve/fight for his country, he has no business joining the military. Whether this is for you or a friend is irrelevent. Anyone who wants the advantages this country affords for military personnel (I know, I know... but there are some.. hehe) should be willing to fight for this country when called. I mean you/he does realize that it is the military and what their job is, right?

And as for easiest PT.. Again, this is lame. I suggest Boy Scouts if you want easy PT. But I will answer anyway. When I joined the Army 20+ years ago, the Air Force guys were pulled out of the normal ranks when we were going in for physicals. They were not required to show physical abilities other than a couple of pushups that day. That makes me assume that the Air Force doesn't put a lot of emphasis on physical capabilities. I still think it is lame to join any service based on that and I hope there aren't too many perople in service who are responsible for the security of our country who joined based on the criteria you asked about.

Of course, with the Air Force, the time that the Army grunts were sweating it out in PT, the Airman Recruits were sitting in classrooms twisting their brains. You don't get to be lazy and stupid. You're doing well if you can get away with just one of those in any branch of the service.


There is a reason why they call it military SERVICE. You got to work for love.

Absolutely, there is no doubt that each area of the military serves it's function. But all services are technical now so it is not just the AF that is working it's brain. I was in MI and even in basic training, while the guys were sitting around at night playing cards after a full day of training I was being interrogated by the FBI, CIA, and everyone else they could throw at me because they had to make sure there was no way to blackmail me because of my security clearance. They all have a purpose, they all have hardships, and they all have benefits... And I hope to God that anyone who joins does it for the right reason...

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: I don't care who you are, thats funny right there..

Hilarious, Steve and Johnny..
I think I would be a little worried about my job. If I worked for ValvOline I think I would know how to spell it. And exactly what does a Broker do for Valvoline anyway? That is what his MySpace occupation is listed as. I think if I was a Broker at 20 then I wouldn't be worried about joining the military... Unless Broker means broker than the rest of my friends.

quote Originally posted by Songman: Hilarious, Steve and Johnny.. I think I would be a little worried about my job. If I worked for ValvOline I think I would know how to spell it. And exactly what does a Broker do for Valvoline anyway? That is what his MySpace occupation is listed as. I think if I was a Broker at 20 then I wouldn't be worried about joining the military... Unless Broker means broker than the rest of my friends.

Ah, the plot thickens. Am I surprised? Not one bit.

Vega, I'm sure you'll be past this idea soon considering you change your mind on motor swaps about every week.

Interesting those that feel defending your country by joining the military must mean you want to pick up a weapon and shoot someone or die for your country.

Not everytone that serves (and ALL military personnel are serving their country with or without a weapon), wishes to go kill someone, even in wartime. Military has supply personnel, chaplins, medics at, rear echelon repair personnel, flightline crews etc etc. If you want to kill kill kill, join the marines, special forces, pathfinders, seals, delta force etc... but even though every soldier is a soldier, not every soldier is needed on the front lines. I have as much or more respect for that coast guard guy jumping from a helicopter in a horrendous storm to save a sailor who's boat is going down, interdicting drug runners, inspecting cargo containers. Or the MI soldier reading foreign intelligence to determine how to prevent soldiers/civilians from ending up casualties. Or the finance personnel that make sure the soldier gets paid, so his family survives while he's overseas in a combat zone. Everyone in the military has a purpose and a mission, MOST aren't there to fire weapons at people in 3rd world nations. Yes, if it comes down to it, everyone of them needs to be able to use their weapons in the defense of their nation, unit, fellow soldiers... thus basic training.

I joined the Army at 19 for a 2 year stint, extended, extended again, re-enlisted and got out after 7 1/2 years. Never wanted to kill anyone, I was a 31M, multichannel communications operator/maintenance, provided commo for my Air Defense units. I considered it a job, with the possibility of having to use my issued weapon if it came to that... but I didn't join so I could go to shoot people (although I was extremely well qualified to do so if needed). If I did, I would have taken the offers for airborne, special forces, etc... I had all the qualifications to where I was actively recruited for those sorts of units, but had no interest in going that direction. Does that mean I shouldn't have been there? I don't have a portfolio full of letters of commendation and medals because I was a slacker. I didn't make Sergeant because I was a slacker. I never got to use my college benefits since I had to work for a living full time after getting out, checked and found out the $17K in benefits expired when I finally found a reason to go back to school (working to get teaching certification and maybe a degree).

Anyone contemplating military service has their own reasons, I wouldn't expect them to match mine or anyone elses. I was looking for a job, focus and disipline, as I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life after a year in college. Something wrong with that?

[This message has been edited by Scott-Wa (edited 05-04-2006).]

Just like the war in Iraq, Scott.. It is not about wanting to kill someone... But it should always be in the back of someone's mind who joins the military. The military's purpose is protecting our country and sometimes it does come to that. There was no war when I was in either, but I knew that if one came up that I would go and do my part. And as mentioned, anyone who is in the military may be called on to pick up a weapon regardless of what your job is. My step-father was a mechanic in Vietnam but he saw a lot of action.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 05-04-2006).]

Scott, you make a great point. We certainly aren't a bunch of kill-crazy fools.

But, every one of us is part of the machine that is ready and willing to fight, which usually means someone is going to die.

As a technician, I may operate the power plant that pushes the boat, but I don't for one minute think that I don't have a part to play in delivering the business end of our job, just because I don't push "The Button". Torpedos, tomahawks, or ballistic missiles, if they get launched, they all mean someone's going to have a really bad day. I've never been on a ship that fired a shot in anger, but many of us have.

Something interesting I read way in the past, a book called Super Weapons... had some quotes from a general that were great. Something about the military's purpose being to clean up the messes politicians make. No sane soldier wants a war. I'd much rather be a deterent than a tool for a regime to gain power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_Diplomacy

From Wikipedia, about deterrence. I did five deterrent patrols from 98-01. 24 tubes of ballistic deterrence makes you think. I slept between tubes 16 and 14... And I did my share of bunking in the torpedo room on my first boat. You can't escape the reason you are there.

And from the Smithsonian:

http://americanhistory.si.edu/Subs/work/missions/deterrence/index.html

[This message has been edited by 2birds (edited 05-04-2006).]

When you get into deterrent, you are getting into people's opinions of why we go to war. I know you are on the opposite side, Scott, and I respect your opinion... But I think we are there as a deterrent. Seem to be working too. Nothing has been blown up in this country...

I'll just say thanks to the men and women who signed up for the job, knowing full well what MIGHT be expected of them. They are there doing their job and this country is safe because of it. Thanks...

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Interesting those that feel defending your country by joining the military must mean you want to pick up a weapon and shoot someone or die for your country.

Not at all.. Personally, I'm not a fan of the military (you know what I mean) and I wouldn't consider joining it at this point in my life. Not for me, not the way I work, probably wouldn't be beneficial to myself or to anyone around me. But thats like saying "I want to be a doctor, as long as I won't have to help people".. Or maybe perhaps closer to "I want to be a doctor, but a doctor of the pinky toe so not many people come in"..

quote Originally posted by vega:

Hopefully for you, if you do decide to enlist, they don't make you take a 9th grade grammar test.

quote Originally posted by Unsafe At Any Speed: Hopefully for you, if you do decide to enlist, they don't make you take a 9th grade grammar test.

Good point - he's a shoe in for the Marines...

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: Good point - he's a shoe in for the Marines...

Yeah, but they might make him run or do some push-ups or something.

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: Good point - he's a shoe in for the Marines...

Don, are you gonna take that? I've known Marine Lance Corporals with more leadership skills than certain Navy Lieutenants.


But seriously, guys. He's asking some questions, about a serious life choice, no matter who it's for. Even if he's just fishing, let's help him out. I'd rather have someone know what they are getting into, than know that some Chief or Sergeant will have to deal with a whiner who blames his recruiter for how bad his life sucks. I hear crap all the time, like "I didn't think I'd be cleaning all the time", "how come I have to run?", "why do I have to shave?" or "why do I have to cut my hair?". Or my favorite, "I didn't know they owned me for 8 years, I only thought I signed up for 4". (Back door draft, my butt... Read your enlistment contracts, guys.)

[This message has been edited by 2birds (edited 05-04-2006).]

There's a big difference in "I wanna kill someone"--

and "I fully realize I may have to kill someone or be killed, therefore I have to prepare myself in that regard.".

I met quite a few of the 1st type--that attitude didn't last long. Hype and BS most of the time--tho there are some out there that had some serious issues along those lines.

When I hear people insist there are plenty of non-combat specialties or combat safe, (in the rear with the gear or as it used to be called-remf)out there, I can't help but wonder how many lying in our national cemeteries were in those specialties.

The 507th Maint Company (Jessica Lynch's unit) was not really a combat unit. It was carried as a combat support unit, like just about every unit in the military is--outside direct combat units. They were in Kuwait to support the invasion--not to take part in it. The rest is history--clouded as it is. Regardless of the reasons it happened-the bottom line is the unit was unable to adequately defend itself.

Whether someone wants to kill someone else is not relevant. If a person is serving on active or reserve duty, they have to know there is always the chance their next set of orders will send them into harm's way, and know how to and be able to fight. The willingness will come with the neccessity. When the time comes, they will either shoot back, die or become a pow--and the enemy doesn't give a crap what occupational specialty they hold, what promises were made to them or anything else.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-04-2006).]

Peace Corps?

Damn you Maryjane... editted your post before I could make the joke! Negative for that!

Just kidding about the negative... Ham's Way... what a straight line that was...

I just remembered the thread below. There are quite a few military PFF members.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20041015-6-020057.html

quote Originally posted by 2birds: Don, are you gonna take that?

Sure. I've heard worse said--by better. Personally, I could care less what anyone else says or thinks about the Marines. I already know the straight scoop.

quote Damn you Maryjane... editted your post before I could make the joke! Negative for that! Just kidding about the negative... Ham's Way... what a straight line that was...

I scanned that post quickly after submitting, saw several errors I decided to leave "as is", but that one just jumped out at me.
(sounded like something one of our Presidents might have said)

Don't mean to hi-jackor anything and i have been readin along thus far...but i just want to throw in another question. Firstly i have no problem with serving my country, i feel as strong about serving it as i do my family or my surname. there is no lack oh honour/pride/whatever.... My question is what is it like traveling the world with the army? is it hell? breath taking? are there moments where you would give your life up to see parts of it again. because in all reality you just might die on your next mission. Other than the materialistic brew-ha-ha, what are some of the more spiritual advantages of enlisting?. Oh and im not thinking on enlisting in the american army, but the canadian.

thanks

- Phil

------------------

"When enough is enough, thats when you know.....your halfway there"

quote Originally posted by Phil86SE: Don't mean to hi-jackor anything and i have been readin along thus far...but i just want to throw in another question. Firstly i have no problem with serving my country, i feel as strong about serving it as i do my family or my surname. there is no lack oh honour/pride/whatever.... My question is what is it like traveling the world with the army? is it hell? breath taking? are there moments where you would give your life up to see parts of it again. because in all reality you just might die on your next mission. Other than the materialistic brew-ha-ha, what are some of the more spiritual advantages of enlisting?. Oh and im not thinking on enlisting in the american army, but the canadian. thanks - Phil

Different branches do things differently. In the AF, I traveled to different bases on my own. Nothing like getting into Japan at a new base at 23:00 hours and not knowing what to do. Looked for a phone on the wall to call the squadron to say I arrived. Or like flying up to Da Nang arriving at the airport and looking for a phone to say I was reassigned to the dispensary. (no one knew I was coming). Flying into Saigon to the airport and doing the same.

Friends of mine in the army traveled in platoons as a unit to their assignments.

Would I want to go back. It has all changed. The base in Japan closed down years ago. The beaches at Cam Rahn Bay were nice, but I have nice beaches in Florida. The base in California is now an Air National Guard base. It may be nice to see what it looks like, but I understand that in 30+ years the area has changed and is not as "good" as I remember it, or so I've heard.

quote Originally posted by Phil86SE: My question is what is it like traveling the world with the army?

Once you get wherever they are sending you, it's just like a job anywhere else, except no guarantees or set in stone anything. Even in combat, you'll get "some" time off-"some" being a relative term.

quote is it hell? breath taking?

Both and sometimes both at the same time.

quote are there moments where you would give your life up to see parts of it again.

You mean now? Yes. But not RVN. That country has gotten all from me they ever will. Not another minute-not another dime, ruble, penny, piaster, peso or shilling. Then, there was just today. I never thought about going back anywhere then, just being able to keep going period.

quote because in all reality you just might die on your next mission.

Tried never to think about that. Couldn't afford to. Sometimes it creeps in, but usually afterwards.

quote Other than the materialistic brew-ha-ha, what are some of the more spiritual advantages of enlisting?. thanks - Phil

Spritual? Well,you'll learn how to curse endlessly and expertly and pray at the same time--even if you don't believe in it. For me--one of them worked.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-04-2006).]

Phil, I haven't been anywhere that I would have died to go to. But I think that oversimplifies your question. As a submariner, I've had the chance to do some things that most people never imagine doing. I have not had the opportunity to do anything service-related overseas, although lots of surface ships do. Other than a very limited supply of manpower, submarines don't bring much to the table for things like disaster relief efforts. But, we do a lot of local service projects. I think it makes us remember our roots, when far from home. My boat is currently involved with some projects in a town here in Maine, and a lot of the single guys (living in the barracks) are the ones who routinely volunteer.

On my last trip, my boat surfaced through the polar ice cap, and we got a little time out on the ice. Sounds great, but it wasn't much different than January in Iowa. Circling the North Pole and hitting every time zone in an hour was a pretty anti-climactic, too.

I have been to some great places for port calls, in Europe, The Mediterranean, and the Caribbean. I've also been stationed all over, so I've been through every state but New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Alaska. Travel has been one of the biggest side benefits. It also makes me appreciate home (Iowa) a lot more than you'd think.

So to try to sum this all up...its still a job, but not 9-5 more 24-7...its a life style. but a life style that can alter your life forever...in positive or negative ways. See here, my real ambition (sp) is to help ppl, all over the world, see the other side of things...another spectrum. and i know thats not what the military is about but i figured it would be a start. i have looked into the red cross but it seems...well i don't blame them...but they won't just take on anyone...you still need some back ground..some training, some well experience. I thought i would be perfect, i am young, willing, physically fit, have good knowledge of mechanics, constuction...well yea...blah blah blah...my father was a good mentor to me. but anyways...i thought i would fit the description well. But it seemed they wanted my money more than my help. So now i am looking elsewhere. I am not sure how to sign up for the peace core so i am looking into military. I am mentally ok with the tasks that are involved, from what i know of anyways. but yeah...alright...this is enough blabbering...

thank you everyone for you input!

- Phil

[This message has been edited by Phil86SE (edited 05-05-2006).]

Phil,
I get the feeling you are opposite the "friend" from the original post--that is, you are interested in what you can give of yourself to some worthy cause, occupation, or organization, while taking away only an inner satisfaction but at least some monetary compensation, and hopefully some training to help you later in life. Good on you!!
Try to seek out the Canadian equivilent of the American Red Cross, or even contact the American Red Cross, and sign up for disaster relief for the upcoming hurricane season. I have done this myself, and don't know if I will ever be called to do anything, but went ahead and took their basic courses, and filled out the paperwork.
I know there are no tropical hurricanes in Canada, but Canada did send some of it's disaster relief people down to the Gulf Coast after Katrina, and I suspect Canada does have at least the potential for various natural and man made disasters.

Don't know what your religious nature is, but many such organizations go to underdeveloped countries to do work to help out the impoverished. My cousins go to Mexico and South America 3 weeks every year to build schools, drill wells, teach etc. You do have to be careful who you volunteer with tho, as some of those organizations are a bit shady. Of course, travel from Ca to Mexico or S. America would be more than from W. Texas, but there might be something like that in Canada, as I'm sure there are some projects that are done on your nation's own soil.

Perhaps you could start a new thread, asking for input from our Canadian members? I know there is at least one PFF person in the Canadian Armed Services.
Good luck to you and I admire your convictions and willingness to do good things in and with your life.

BTW, Am I right in assuming you are related to Hugh?

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-05-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Phil86SE: S See here, my real ambition (sp) is to help ppl, all over the world, see the other side of things...another spectrum.

Uh oh, I predict missionary work in your future..

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Try to seek out the Canadian equivilent of the American Red Cross, or even contact the American Red Cross, and sign up for disaster relief for the upcoming hurricane season.

This sounds like a good idea i will look into this!

quote Originally posted by maryjane: but many such organizations go to underdeveloped countries to do work to help out the impoverished.

these are the types of organizations i want to get in touch with but i am not sure where to start looking, or even what to search on a search engine.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Perhaps you could start a new thread, asking for input from our Canadian members? I know there is at least one PFF person in the Canadian Armed Services.

Also a good idea, i will start one after work.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: BTW, Am I right in assuming you are related to Hugh?

I am sorry I have no idea who Hugh is.


thanks for everything! you are all awsome!!!!

- Phil

that was a miss print about the military- my gf posted that up thinking that "i" was when it was actually that neigbor kid- since you brought that to my atention i am in the process of editing my space and have changed my passord for it (so thanks for leting me know she does this stuff someimtes and can irritate the absolute hell out of me)- i do not like to let alot of my freinds know on myspace that i am a broker because the last time i did i got alot of crap from people that did not want (as in make me your freidn and i can teake your fiels and make the ones that doe't work wor- but oh just pay me this much and bla bla bla- i can handle myself)- i WAS working for a se[erate company as a broker before- and now i am just doing it on the side with my custom painting- i don't want to work as much as in from 6am to 11 at night as i stated before was getting hard on my self and my fience' - and for the most part i work at valvoline as a just in case this month sucks- this last month SUCKED BAD- with the fed inerest ratet going up like it to 4.7 perecent all my damned lenders were being jackasses even resmae- they are hgolding off stillf rom the previous mnth- i have a theory that they will go through at the end of this month- (may- april sucked balls). And not only that i was dealing with this chick that was going through soem court crap becuae her husband was trying to refinace becuse he needed money for child support- BUT the court deal was about changeing it down from like 24 grand to 8.5k well they never got hte paper work to me- so i could not prove it to my lenders- Obiously these people are not "a" paper people they are BC paper- basically anyone with less then a 620 (and even then you need the comps) they are goign to be a BC these people had a a 57x score which did nto help.

Get this the guy was a worker for the police for- a cleaner or whatever a year ago quit becuse he got hassseld by all the cops because he reported a bunch of "crooked cops" because they were being racist and sexually blah to this black chick at the office- and he was a witness. after that he did not have a job till this year january only worked there for like 3 months (as a buss driver for a school .... yeah that helped alot.....) now the way he payed through this last year was by get this, winning the lottery 20k! Then he pulled 15k out of his pention- and the rest he got from his dad. so i pratically had shat for bank statments- i was going to have to go stated becuase his work history-

Now that was just him- his wife has nto worked for 2 years becuase she got TERRIBLE arthritis- so yeah no money flow there eitther. oh and they had like 2 kids to keep up too.

yeah so that was ABOUT the kind of work ups i was getting for the past month as well- so yeah this last month has been hard on me- so yeah about 3 weeks ago this upcoming monday i took a quick job at valvoline to make sure i am making enough money. just helps out a little. and the specific one i am working at well i actally like it alot- the manager built a yellow v12 bmw lambo fiero a couple years ago so him and i get along like two peas in a pod - so really. i am not worried about anything right now-

Oh and btw if any of you guys that are helping me out that need help with your mortgage send me a pm - and if i can't do it i know a few guys that should be able to help you out like cake - and i will talk to them for you so i KNOW that you are not going to get bs from them - i realy appriciate your help on this one you guys i feel really bad for mike. i don't know he just reminds me of me back when i was 18- i know it was not too long ago and that kidna makes me sound old- but i don't know too many poeple with my personality i guess.
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as for the spelling YUP i suck at it and will proably continue to suck at it luckily doing all the writing i do on the side my gf obviously sucks at it as well- but i don't fault her she doesn't know crap about cars- she is obsessed with a 73 (i think) mini though - which is fine for me- maybe when i get the fiero done with the 3.8 turbo carb setup (which i am not changing my mind on btw - yes i know i have been finicky in the past - which i apologize for but i can see the most benifites out of the 3.8 turbo carb for my personal styel and for what i want more then the 327 and all the rest of my dumb ideas (the 4g63t motor yeah - that was great huh ) there is no reasons i am seeing other then too make sure i get everything setup right for that motor- right now i am acuatlly still looking for a decent 3.8 85' fwd block - so if you guys know anyone or see one anywhere for a good deal that is in decent shape let me know asap PLEASE!

And to be frank i personally could not see myself joining the army- my fience would rip my eyes out feed them to her dogs - beat me with a horse whip (but not in that fun spanky way ) and then say i can't go - no i really could never go and do that- i think that in any faction you get into if there is any chance of going over it really is not worth it- has nothing to do with fighting for my coutnry but it has to do with being here and supporting her. care way too much about her- now mike on the other hand has no loose ends- and i can't see why not. He is fairly patriotic but is not too sure about "over there" if you get what i mean- i talked to ace and he said that he was behind the fences alot even in the army- and if that be true for alot of people then i guess it almost doesn't matter other then what he wants as a job there- i can kinda see the kid working underneith a few takes or whatever- geting some life experience would be good for him.
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anyhow thanks for the input guys. hope that clears some things up - and remeber if you ned help with finances or mortgage i can proably help you out too. there is acutally a lender from still water named lee something - a high risk lender- i don't have one of those yet so if that all works out then maybe life will be a little bit easier for me

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 05-06-2006).]