From what you said you are another example of why rescues ask the questions they ask. Just wonder how did you loose your dogs? Did they run off? Get hit by a car because you refuse to fence your yard? Or was it lack of care?
Too funny. Newsflash - you are making yourself look even dumber than you looked before. If you took the time to read my previous post I worked at an animal hospital for years. I am very good friends with the owner of the practice who is a top vet in the area. I don't pay for any of my vet care. One dog died of insulinoma, another of cancer, another after a tumor ruptured internally and she bled but emergency surgery showed it was too late to attempt any type of procedure. My dog with insulinoma needed medicine that cost 162 dollars for a 7 day supply and he was on it for months (and I paid it). That dog (which was mine, the other two relatives dogs) also saw a specialist from the University of Pennsylvania Veterinary school which is one of the top vet schools in the world based on a personal recommendation from my vet. I guarantee you I have dealt with some of the best vets in the world when caring for my dogs. If it seems like I am bragging, I am. While your little dog rescue is busy doing home visits and FBI background checks my family is adopting dogs from REALISTIC people with half a brain and dogs that just want to be in a nice home with a nice family. I am sure in bumf*ck Maine you have some great goat vets but here in civilization is where its at.
[This message has been edited by Black88GT (edited 04-26-2006).]
This coming from the guy who was crying and shaking in the corner over giving his dog some shot under his skin? This current dog conversation is for the big boys my friend, might want to sit this one out....
Yes, it was a traumatic thing for me to do. Yes, I was humbled by my fear of hurting him.I also overcame that fear.Yes, I have sent a PM to Taijiguy apologising for going in too hard. Yes, I am man enough to accept my frailties.And yes, I am big enough not to reply to you in the same vein as you adopted.Now, who IS the big boy here? You? My attitude was coloured by the foul treatment of animals in the link I posted..meted out by sub-humans.Unfortunately, I had seen that report on television just seconds before I read this thread I should have let the blood simmer down before replying. I didn't, and paid the price.Except only to Taijiguy, who responded in a very respectful way.He has gone up considerably in my estimation as a result.Perhaps that is of no consequence for Taijiguy..perhaps it is.I hope so.I will also applaud YOUR commitment to your animals' welfare.Your attitude is commendable, to say the least, with regard to how you care for your dogs. Nick
------------------ fierofetish.PFF'S self-confessed Snowbird!! Responsibility: the solution for our World's Dilemmas.. Yahoo messenger:nickcannspain MSN Messenger-nicholascann@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-26-2006).]
That sort of attitude from the rescue centre has probably been engendered by the "Sue them for all they have" mentality that abounds today. Imagine that they supplied you with a dog, and it later attacked your child. Animals are not predictable, and it could happen.I am sure you are not of that type, but somebody who WAS, could have a field day in court.Best to not take a chance of being bankrupted for the sake of one placement of a dog.I believe they refused you to prevent a 'possible disaster', and acted responsibly.No flame intended, Oreif Nick
quote
Originally posted by Oreif:
We just went thru all this as well. Some of the rescue places are insane with all the details they want. I do understand they want the animals to go to a good home, But geez, we had a place turn us down because we had a child under 5 years old. They didn't care that we had a dog previously, They just flat turned us down.
I suggest you go look for another rescue place. We went to about 3 before we found one that was actually nice. We've had our new pet for about a month now and everything is fine.
The "Breed Rescue" places are not to bad, But sometimes you need to look outside your local area.
------------------ fierofetish.PFF'S self-confessed Snowbird!! Responsibility: the solution for our World's Dilemmas.. Yahoo messenger:nickcannspain MSN Messenger-nicholascann@hotmail.com
Y'know dude. You're a dick. You have the brain functions of an artichoke. You don't know me from Adam, and for you to sit in judgement of me based on a few lines of text you don't even bother to read makes you an even bigger dick. Go hump somebody elses leg muttface.
My first post to you was nothing but info, no bull. Just explaining the reasons rescue asks the questions and require the fencing.
Lets just say you get a dog tomorrow. You call and have the fence scheduled to be installed next week. Saturday you let the dog out to go and it gets run over. That’s the reason they want the fence installed before hand.
------------------ technology is great when it works and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
My first post to you was nothing but info, no bull. Just explaining the reasons rescue asks the questions and require the fencing.
Lets just say you get a dog tomorrow. You call and have the fence scheduled to be installed next week. Saturday you let the dog out to go and it gets run over. That’s the reason they want the fence installed before hand.
<sigh> You really DON'T read the posts, do you? Perhaps you just happened to miss this one particular line in my eamil to the guy, that has been there since the beginning, and that I had repeated in this thread at least once afterwards: >We would like to start the process, >and when a good match becomes available we would install the fence and >provide reasonable evidence of that to you prior to the final adoption if >that's acceptable.
Seriously dude. Read, THEN reply. And by the way, I held a perfectly civil tone with you until you started on a personal attack on me. Which every statement you made was either just plain wrong, an enormous assumption, or just some stuff you made up. Go back, read every comment I made, and compare it to your little attack on me, and see if you can't figure it out. Edit: Oh, and really, do you so far perceive me as some moron who doesn't know how to use a leash on a dog if I *didn't have the fence up in time? Although, the fact is, you *didn't* read what I posted.
Nick: I haven't had a chance to read your PM yet, but whatever it says; don't sweat it dude. I know you, and I like you. Things go bad in here sometimes. You're one of the good-guys in this place, and in most cases, if you came after me like that, I'd really have to look at the situation and ask myself why. I could tell it was something else this time. We're cool brother.
[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 04-26-2006).]
Well I suppose if the food is good, the shelter adequate and heated and the wireless connection in the kennel is fast I might be interested
Hah! Somehow in the frenzy I missed this one. Sorry dude, dial-up here. Plus if you saw my g/f you'd be trying to hump her leg and I'd never be able to break you of that!
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08:15 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
>We would like to start the process, >and when a good match becomes available we would install the fence and >provide reasonable evidence of that to you prior to the final adoption if >that's acceptable.
That in rescue’s eye’s is unacceptable. What is so hard to understand. The fence needs to be in place before hand.
------------------ technology is great when it works and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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08:17 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Too funny. Newsflash - you are making yourself look even dumber than you looked before. If you took the time to read my previous post I worked at an animal hospital for years. I am very good friends with the owner of the practice who is a top vet in the area. I don't pay for any of my vet care. One dog died of insulinoma, another of cancer, another after a tumor ruptured internally and she bled but emergency surgery showed it was too late to attempt any type of procedure. My dog with insulinoma needed medicine that cost 162 dollars for a 7 day supply and he was on it for months (and I paid it). That dog (which was mine, the other two relatives dogs) also saw a specialist from the University of Pennsylvania Veterinary school which is one of the top vet schools in the world based on a personal recommendation from my vet. I guarantee you I have dealt with some of the best vets in the world when caring for my dogs. If it seems like I am bragging, I am. While your little dog rescue is busy doing home visits and FBI background checks my family is adopting dogs from REALISTIC people with half a brain and dogs that just want to be in a nice home with a nice family. I am sure in bumf*ck Maine you have some great goat vets but here in civilization is where its at.
I read your post in it¡¯s entirety.
Gee wiz you would be amazed where our Vet. went to school then.
But from your previous post there was no info about the reason you lost your dogs. Just that you lost 3 dogs in as many months.
My first post was nothing but good info on the reason why rescues ask the questions they do. No one read or maybe comprehended that. I¡¯m sure your vet is very competent.
Diagnosis: A blood glucose determination should be done on all older dogs with a history of periodic weakness, collapse, or seizures. Fasting hypoglycemia (¡Ü60 mg/dL) in a middle-aged to older dog is strong support for an insulinoma. Serum insulin concentrations taken at the time of hypoglycemia are normal to increased in animals with an insulinoma. Differential diagnoses for hypoglycemia include hypoadrenocorticism, hepatic failure, large extrapancreatic neoplasms, sepsis, polycythemia, insulin overdosage, and laboratory error. \l "" \l ""
#Treatment: Although insulinomas are usually solitary in dogs, the entire pancreas should be examined carefully for multiple tumors. Complete excision of the tumor ameliorates the hypoglycemia and associated neurologic signs, unless there have been irreversible changes in the CNS. If there are nonvisible metastases, hypoglycemia may persist after surgery. Even though the potential for malignancy of insulinomas is high, many dogs live >1 yr with acceptable quality of life if all visible tumors are debulked at surgery. Dogs with inoperable tumors may be managed fairly well with multiple feedings/day and glucocorticoid administration (0.5-1 mg/kg/day). Diazoxide (20-80 mg/kg/day, tid) may also alleviate clinical signs in some dogs, though problems with availability have limited its use. The chemotherapeutic agent, streptozotocin, has recently been investigated for the treatment of islet cell tumors in dogs and may be considered following surgical resection.
------------------ technology is great when it works and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
That in rescue’s eye’s is unacceptable. What is so hard to understand. The fence needs to be in place before hand.
Exactly my point. And in my opinion, the fact that the guy won't even consider our circumstances and deviate a little from their SOP and let us satisfy that condition once we KNOW that we're getting a dog, is unreasonable. He doesn't appear to be willing to work with us in order to give one of his rescues a good home. I don't oppose the home inspections, interviews or fence requirement. I think it's a *little* invasive, but that's OK, I accept that and am willing to go along because I realize that his interest is in placing the dog in a good home. Although, his attitude about having a fence prior to even talking to us suggests (to me) that he's NOT really interested in placing a dog. As long as we are willing to satisfy his requirements PRIOR TO accepting the dog, what possible difference does it make?
Lets just say you get a dog tomorrow. You call and have the fence scheduled to be installed next week. Saturday you let the dog out to go and it gets run over. That’s the reason they want the fence installed before hand.
Funny how we "humans" always seem to know whats best for everything and everybody.
If I were a dog, I would rather spend a day or two running free AND take the chance on getting killed. Being penned up in some "proper" facility waiting for somebody with the "perfect" fenced in area only to be euthanized because that ideal isn't realized isn't my idea of a great life.
If the requirements are to spend $$ you really can't spare to build a pen or fence in your yard there will continue to be alot more animals euthanized. What's wrong with a leash?
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08:59 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Exactly my point. And in my opinion, the fact that the guy won't even consider our circumstances and deviate a little from their SOP and let us satisfy that condition once we KNOW that we're getting a dog, is unreasonable. He doesn't appear to be willing to work with us in order to give one of his rescues a good home. I don't oppose the home inspections, interviews or fence requirement. I think it's a *little* invasive, but that's OK, I accept that and am willing to go along because I realize that his interest is in placing the dog in a good home. Although, his attitude about having a fence prior to even talking to us suggests (to me) that he's NOT really interested in placing a dog. As long as we are willing to satisfy his requirements PRIOR TO accepting the dog, what possible difference does it make?
Check any rescue site. They all have the same requirements. Rules and such.
They have heard it all. That’s why they are so picky. Also some rescues are not really rescues they are simply people trying to make a buck.
Looking for a dog in rescue is admirable. Just don’t expect them to do things the way you want or even think they should. They have rules, for the dogs protection as well as yours.
Just remember they don’t have to give you a dog just because you want one and say you will do things.
------------------ technology is great when it works and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
I understand what you're saying, and, don't you think that if the guy *really* wanted to adopt the dog out, he would be willing to work with us, instead of trying to dictate to us? And not every rescue has all of these conditions. We met with the border collie rescue people last week (without the fence installed) Sometimes, you *have* to be fluid, and be willng to compromise in order to accomplish something. If this guy would go so far as to conduct a phone interview with us and just tell us whether or not he has a dog that he thinks might be a good match, we'd be willing to install the fence today. But to insist we just install the fence without knowing whether or not he even has a dog to recommend, that's just absurd. And as I've stated, strikes me as a little self-important and controlling, not cooperative.
[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 04-26-2006).]
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09:18 AM
under8ted Member
Posts: 1108 From: Sparta, ON, Canada Registered: Mar 2006
I'm out in the country and there isnt anything resembling a dog-containig fence within 10 miles of me. We have 80 feet of 1/8" steel cable that gives the dog one hell of a big running area to play in--and before any body asks, yes, soetimes I do let her go burn off some energy charging across the fields with no restraint. I kinda see it that dogs have been survivng just fine without being fenced or tied for 250,000 some-odd years and probably will for another 250,000 or so. Fortunatley, the controll freaks who demand everything be done thier way wont be around nearly that long. ;P
Originally posted by 84fiero123: #Treatment: Although insulinomas are usually solitary in dogs, the entire pancreas should be examined carefully for multiple tumors. Complete excision of the tumor ameliorates the hypoglycemia and associated neurologic signs, unless there have been irreversible changes in the CNS. If there are nonvisible metastases, hypoglycemia may persist after surgery. Even though the potential for malignancy of insulinomas is high, many dogs live >1 yr with acceptable quality of life if all visible tumors are debulked at surgery. Dogs with inoperable tumors may be managed fairly well with multiple feedings/day and glucocorticoid administration (0.5-1 mg/kg/day). Diazoxide (20-80 mg/kg/day, tid) may also alleviate clinical signs in some dogs, though problems with availability have limited its use. The chemotherapeutic agent, streptozotocin, has recently been investigated for the treatment of islet cell tumors in dogs and may be considered following surgical resection.
In laymen's terms - there's not much you can do after diagnosis. Surgery is risky for older dogs and tumors on the pancreas are most likely going to be microscopic. Even if you remove 90% of the pancreas (which is possible) you still might not get them all and the dog will have a reduced quality of life or maybe not even make it out of surgery.
Next option is frequent feeding and medicine such as Prednisolone. This works for a lot of people but the time can vary. Some people have had success for years with this routine, others only a short period. I was the latter. After pred and feeding only maintained the glucose level in the 35-45 range we tried the other medicine recommended, diazoxide, aka ProGlycem. Not only is this super hard to find but its super expensive. 30 ml bottle is 162 bucks (200 if you go to Walgreens, I got it at cost) and my dog needed 3 ml's twice a day. So before when I said 7 day supply I was mistaken, it was actually 5. Either way it's a nasty disease with a less than promising outlook.
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11:47 AM
Fierochic88 Member
Posts: 4962 From: Staunton, VA Registered: May 2001
I work with a rescue for Irish Setters and let me say first, thanks for opening your heart to a dog.
When I first rescued a dog there were the same requirements - home visits etc and I too thought they were silly. Now that I am actually involved in helping to place dogs you would be surprised how many people that try to adopt dogs are actually not suitable homes. The dogs would actually be entering worse homes than just staying in a kennel in some instances. I'm sure that isn't the case with you but that is why home visits are done. Interviews are done because in some instances we have seen a woman call in to adopt a dog and her husband is clueless. This can sometimes make for a bad situation for the pet because the husband doesn't want the animal (or wife if a man called) and mistreats it. It is unfortunate but it happens.
As far as the high cost, that varies per shelter. Some animals are with the rescue for several months and have had to undergo veterinary treatment which I am sure you know isn't cheap. Most people that work with rescues don't have tons of money to care for the animals thus the cost is passed on to the future parents. That is not uncommon.
The final thing I have to say is that most breed rescues are run by volunteers. These people have limited time (like many of us do otherwise) so they only pursue potential homes that are ready to go - otherwise they could be wasting their time which is already tight to begin with.
I hope that helps give you a little perspective from the inside and I do wish you luck. Some rescues are better than others, and some rescues aren't really rescues (as mentioned above). When you find a dog and think the price is high, ask why. You may find that the animal had heartworm and needed treatment, or needed to be fixed etc. If it sounds suspcious steer clear.
Jennifer, Thanks for your comments. I understand completely the reason for the requirements, and realize they're important. And I honestly don''t have a problem with them at all, although I realize that somewhere along the course of this thread, there were those who didn't really read my comments and thought that was the case. We aren't even complaining about the cost. I recognize these rescues are voluntary efforts, and incur expenses. I believe the Aussie rescue asks for 150 or 175 which is really OK with us. we can afford it, otherwise we wouldn't bother. No, my complaint all along has been this guys unwillingness to compromise with us about exactly when we have the fence installed. If we were to find the right dog, we would install the fence right away. My issue is if they don't have a dog, that by the time we find one, the fence may be ayear old before it ever even gets used. I don't want to put several hundred dollars into a fence until i know for a fact that we will actually need it, know what i mean? This guy has been unwilling to work with us, which makes me think he just isn't interested in adopting out the dogs he has. That may well b e the case as far as I know. He *is* getting sponsorship money from a local kennel. I suppose it's entirely possible that he's just ripping them off, representing himself as a rescue, when in fact he's just taking their money and keeping the dogs.
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01:17 PM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
Too much to read, so dont yell at me for not reading every post.
If I were you, unless you are going for a breeding animal or specificaly a purebred, shop around at the local pounds. My mothers first collie is a purebred she bought from a breeder, and just recently she got one from a "rescue" service, though im not sure why. From what she told me, they were rediculously anal, they said she was not allowed to let the dog out until she filled a hole under the fence, even though no dog has ever squirmed under it in however many years, and it would be a tight fit for a cat. There were several other comments that she made saying they were not quite right in the head. Theres a diffrence between not selling a rescued dog to a hillbilly with a whole pet cemetary in the back yard, and someone with a nice house but not a fence. We have had 2 purebred's neither of which were fenced until my mother moved in town, and nothing ever happened to eiter of them.
The dogs at the local shelters need a home much more than the rescued dogs, who if these people are really as in love with them as they seem, probably live very well. The dogs in the local kennels are not too far off from being put down, and crammed into small cages. You can take them home without haveing to have a rectal exam, and even return them if they are unacceptable (ie violent or whatnot) Every dog does not need a fence, if you train the dog properly they wont even leave the yard without you, but without that even, if you live in a rural area, it will be fine.
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02:15 PM
Fierochic88 Member
Posts: 4962 From: Staunton, VA Registered: May 2001
Thanks for the reply Tai. A good place to check out is www.petfinder.com. This is a site used by shelters and rescues and you can search for specific breeds.
!! Must be getting slow on the uptake lately!! Took me two reads before it clicked...hilarious!!
