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Losers Striking by Uaana
Started on: 04-18-2006 10:02 AM
Replies: 115
Last post by: MinnGreenGT on 05-11-2006 11:07 PM
Uaana
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Report this Post04-18-2006 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for UaanaClick Here to visit Uaana's HomePageClick Here to Email UaanaSend a Private Message to UaanaDirect Link to This Post
The Teamsters Union 974 members are striking against the 41 dealerships in the GMADA. The Machinists Union No. 77 may go on strike in support in 2 weeks.

I asked people at Morrie's Ford and Sears Imports if they knew what the strike was about, they all said that it had to do with the Teamsters and they had no idea what is was about. One receptionist did tell me that she thought that the picketers would slow down business, but they haven't.

I asked a picketer what the strike is about. He told me that they are striking to protest proposed wage reductions for incentive technicians. I told him that the dealerships had no idea why they were striking, and he replied that ďThey know.Ē

I asked him if it had anything to do with Morries or Sears and he said no, it's all GMADA members.

I find it amazing that they are actively trying to hurt their employer's business while admiting that the strike has little to do with that particular dealer.

Official Story http://www.startribune.com/535/story/375650.html
Bill Ziembo, Local 974 president, said the contract offer was voted down 676 to 595. He said a key issue is a proposed new "light-duty" mechanic classification that would pay newly-hired workers that do common jobs like oil changes an average $14.25 an hour, compared to $22.31 an hour currently paid to journeymen mechanics. Under the proposal, existing journeymen mechanics would only earn $17 a hour for tasks classified as "light-duty" work, Ziembo said.

Yep, we have confirmation that these morons expect dealerships to pay newly hired oil changers $46,404.80 a year, with benefits! They think that $29,640 just isn't enough money for doing a job anyone can do.

Two points, unions are run by morons and generally have morons for members. I'm sure they'll probably get their way on this issue, but now we all know why automobile dealerships charge too much for oil changes. They sould fire everyone of the oil changers and hire non-union guys to do the job.

I can't wait to hear how 84Fiero123 defends an oil monkey making 14+ an hour for a job that anywhere else pays 9-10 or even less an hour, at places like jiffylube/Valvoline etc.

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Report this Post04-18-2006 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhrancClick Here to Email PhrancSend a Private Message to PhrancDirect Link to This Post
But unions are great. Unions never are the problem.
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Report this Post04-18-2006 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
Man, if I could get a job chaning oil for $46k a year to start, I'd have to consider changing careers.
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Report this Post04-18-2006 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
1) Turn a drain plug counter clockwise
2) Watch used oil drain into a pan
3) Turn a drain plug clockwise
4) Collect $46K plus benefits.

According to this math I should be making $33,000,000 per year for the work I do. Can't wait to tell my boss!

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Report this Post04-18-2006 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86GT3.4DOHCSend a Private Message to 86GT3.4DOHCDirect Link to This Post
Hey now, thats a complicated process for those guys at walmart....
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MinnGreenGT
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Report this Post04-18-2006 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageClick Here to Email MinnGreenGTSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
I can tell you for certain that both the employees & management at Sears Imports knows exactly what the strike is about. Eric/Racingman24 spent 6 hours picketing there (as he is an employee of Sears Imports).

They're taking issue with the new contract wanting to pay techs differently for different projects ("light" duty techs vs standard techs).

Imagine this: Last week you did a basic oil change, tire rotation, and generic service on a 2005 Mercedes Benz. Sears imports billed the customer $105/hour + materials. They paid the tech $22/hr - both at "flat rate" (normal practice for any shop). Now this week, under the proposed new contract - the same tech would get the same project. The same customer would get billed the same $105/hour + materials rate. But for whatever reason the company would now pay the same tech only $14.50/hour for his "light duty tech" work.

So 2/3rds the pay for exactly the same work being billed out at exactly the same rate? (and we're talking about Sears Imports here, not the local goodyear tire shop). Yeah. That's fair.

Also keep in mind that the 2 other Mercedes shops in the area (Maplewood Imports & Feldman's) are non-union shops... and they'd pay a tech $27/hour for the exact same project (I'm not familiar enough with their shop to know exactly what they're billing the customer). But they're not short on work either.

Note: Sears Imports could easily get their employees back on the job by simply writing an official letter stating that they do not hire any "light duty techs" - therefore eliminating the pay differential.

As for whether or not another tech at the local jiffy lube can do the same job for $10/hour... sure, but do you think that the snooty MB owners in Minnetonka want to get their oil change done there? Or would they prefer to pay the premium and have specially-trained mechanics do the work?

[This message has been edited by MinnGreenGT (edited 04-18-2006).]

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twofatguys
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Report this Post04-18-2006 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for twofatguysClick Here to Email twofatguysSend a Private Message to twofatguysDirect Link to This Post
http://www.kare11.com/news/ts_article.aspx?storyid=123241
As I've said before, if people were treated fairly, Unions would have never came into existence.
I am Union, if I am asked to go on strike I go, that doesn't make me a loser, that makes me a brother, sticking up for my fellow employees.

Like was said above, all Sears import has to do is sign a paper saying they dont hire light duty. Why don't they??

No, I dont agree with everything the Union does, but they have saved my job, especially recently when I was diagnosed with seisures, and had to take a leave of absence. Any other place and I would be looking for another job, I've seen it happen to alot of people. I went and talked to the Union first, and they handled everything, including a lawyer.

This strike I agree with.

http://www.teamster.org/

Brad

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Report this Post04-18-2006 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for connecticutFIEROSend a Private Message to connecticutFIERODirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by twofatguys:

http://www.kare11.com/news/ts_article.aspx?storyid=123241
As I've said before, if people were treated fairly, Unions would have never came into existence.
I am Union, if I am asked to go on strike I go, that doesn't make me a loser, that makes me a brother, sticking up for my fellow employees.

Like was said above, all Sears import has to do is sign a paper saying they dont hire light duty. Why don't they??

No, I dont agree with everything the Union does, but they have saved my job, especially recently when I was diagnosed with seisures, and had to take a leave of absence. Any other place and I would be looking for another job, I've seen it happen to alot of people. I went and talked to the Union first, and they handled everything, including a lawyer.

This strike I agree with.

http://www.teamster.org/

Brad


Here here.

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Uaana
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Report this Post04-18-2006 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for UaanaClick Here to visit Uaana's HomePageClick Here to Email UaanaSend a Private Message to UaanaDirect Link to This Post
Rob/Eric,

Nothing personally against either of you.. But why do you think Sears is in business?
They are a for profit business, they are not running or even attempting to run zero sum.

They and others obviously see that maybe 22+ an hour is a tad high to change oil and not overly cost effective.
Like many shops they probably have a few real experienced techs, and then new guys that vary from parts hangers to oil monkeys.

BTW IIRC MN state sets the labor rates, it's pretty much in the neighborhood of 90-110 and they have to go the "Book" to determine what they can charge for a particular job. So this is basically a pissing match about how much of the pie the techs get.

Why is it that when the rest of us see our companies do well, we negotiate based on our performance what our raise should be. We don't walk off the job until the review/negotiation process is over because we'd just end up fired. If you have skills worth keeping you get the raise, you don't get the raise you want and your skills are in demand you can usually go somewhere else.

I'm sure Eric has plenty of skills and can probably walk over to Carousel and get them to pay $27 an hour as previously quoted. Why would he want to fight for the rights of the guy who got hired because his brother in law works there, or who is always doing the least amount of work possible?

[This message has been edited by Uaana (edited 04-18-2006).]

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Uaana
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Report this Post04-18-2006 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for UaanaClick Here to visit Uaana's HomePageClick Here to Email UaanaSend a Private Message to UaanaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by twofatguys:

http://www.kare11.com/news/ts_article.aspx?storyid=123241
As I've said before, if people were treated fairly, Unions would have never came into existence.
I am Union, if I am asked to go on strike I go, that doesn't make me a loser, that makes me a brother, sticking up for my fellow employees.

Like was said above, all Sears import has to do is sign a paper saying they dont hire light duty. Why don't they??

Brad

Sounds like we have plenty of non-union shops that treat their people decently. If they didn't don't you think the union would be in there in a heatbeat?

Why should they? It's their money and their business?
Have any of you ever owned or run a business? Most places know that if you don't treat the employees right they'll leave.
If you're running a prestige or specality business you treat your people great so they treat your customers great. Bosses who don't lose their best people.

Case in point.. take a look at the diff between Foose and Boyd.
Boyd can't keep talent and his customers are going to other places where they know the work will be done right.

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Report this Post04-18-2006 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for twofatguysClick Here to Email twofatguysSend a Private Message to twofatguysDirect Link to This Post
Like I said in my post before, if workers are treated fairly then there is no reason for Unions. I give props to the places that have been in business for decades and have never needed a Union.

You have to keep in mind, the powers that be arn't there to look out for the common worker, they are there for the bottom line. Making money. Thats fine as long as the workers are taken care of. On the other hand there are many situations where workers are " stuck " in a job for years, and cannot afford to move to better, and have to deal with terrible boss' attitudes, and mind games. This is where Unions help out, finding a way that works for both parties ( in a perfect world ) . It doesn't always happen that way, Unions are just a business in the end, but I for one am willing to pay a small fee every month to keep the schoolyard bully from taking my lunch money.

Hope some of that made sence.
Brad

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Report this Post04-18-2006 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageClick Here to Email MinnGreenGTSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Uaana:

Nothing personally against either of you..


I'm not union... never have been. (both my parents are Northwest employees, so I've seen both the good & bad sides of the unions). No offense taken here (I'm just stating what I know, and we're having a discussion).

 
quote

But why do you think Sears is in business?
They are a for profit business, they are not running or even attempting to run zero sum.

I agree... but they are still making money hand over fist (both in the sales & service departments)... we're not talking about the local small dealership struggling to make ends meet, or struggling to book 40 hrs/week for thier techs.

And it's just OK for them to take (a guesstimate) of 25% or more of your income away because they feel like it? If their operating costs are somehow too high, and business is too slow - then it's time to let people go or cut down on O/T.

 
quote

They and others obviously see that maybe 22+ an hour is a tad high to change oil and not overly cost effective.
Like many shops they probably have a few real experienced techs, and then new guys that vary from parts hangers to oil monkeys.

Keep in mind that this is a specialty shop, not a quick lube. You don't just stroll in with your HTC Auto workers certificate and start making $40k+/year. Most of their techs (Eric included) spent an extensive amount of extra time to become MB-specialized techs. There aren't any generic parts hangers or grease monkeys there... they are all specialists with very specialized training.

 
quote

BTW IIRC MN state sets the labor rates, it's pretty much in the neighborhood of 90-110 and they have to go the "Book" to determine what they can charge for a particular job. So this is basically a pissing match about how much of the pie the techs get.

AFAIK there are guidelines about book rate, but I believe the actually shop is allowed to charge whatever they want for those hours (as long as it is consistent throughout the shop).

 
quote

Why is it that when the rest of us see our companies do well, we negotiate based on our performance what our raise should be. We don't walk off the job until the review/negotiation process is over because we'd just end up fired. If you have skills worth keeping you get the raise, you don't get the raise you want and your skills are in demand you can usually go somewhere else.

That's very optimistic... if you don't get the raise you want you just leave and go find the money elsewhere. Unfortunately that isn't how the market works. Most of us just can't up and leave a job and expect to find more money doing the same or simliar tasks elsewhere. And the union doesn't usually let 'em just walk out - they always have negotiations going on prior to the deadlines given. It's not like these things just sneak up on you.

 
quote

I'm sure Eric has plenty of skills and can probably walk over to Carousel and get them to pay $27 an hour as previously quoted. Why would he want to fight for the rights of the guy who got hired because his brother in law works there, or who is always doing the least amount of work possible?

Again lies the problems with the idealistic job search. Just because you have the necessary special skills, doesn't automatically make the positions open. And from what I've seen and experienced in the shop and Sears (and through the stories I've heard), there are very few (maybe one or 2) who might try to take advantage of the system. But that's the deal with book-rate in a shop. If it bills 2 hours, then you get paid for 2 hours... whether it takes you 1 hour or 3. You can't just lay down at the shop and get paid...

I have to make it clear... I don't always agree with unions (far from it usually). But I think that what's happening here is wrong - and easily resolved. Heck, since Sears has very little in common with many of the other shops on strike - it might be time to consider ditching the union and making things work out for both parties!

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Racingman24
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Report this Post04-22-2006 01:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racingman24Click Here to visit Racingman24's HomePageClick Here to Email Racingman24Send a Private Message to Racingman24Direct Link to This Post
I'm going to appoligize in advance, becasue this is going to be a very loooog, very rude post.

Robert,

Losers, Morons?!?!?! Who the hell are you to decide what kind of people work in these places. What the hell is wrong with you. First off, you're uninformed. Second, you're not including all the facts, probably because you're uninformed. But, to me, you're still a prick simply because you just blanketed every worker standing on the sidewalk supporting each other by calling them losers and morons. I'm sorry, but we have familys to support, houses to make payments on.

Lets take me for example. I'm a loser according to you. Then why am I, at 23 years old, sitting in my own house. . . that I own, with a Benz in the garage. According to you, I'm too much of a moron to make anything of myself.

Ok, lets start with the facts, and I'm going to be talking in my dealership, dealing with MB's. As you are somewhat right, we currently get paid 21.50$ or so per hour, if we hit 40 hours, if we don't it's somewhere in the region of 17$. They want to start paying us 17$ per hour for this "light duty" classification. That's where we actually make up some time. Due to the flat rate system, and every auto manufacter cutting warrenty times, it's nearly impossible to make time on anything warrenty related. So, we have to make up the time somewhere. In this new classfication, we get paid the lesser ammount for the following:

Brakes [O yea, almost forgot, out new cars have "fake brakes" also known as SBC, don't know what it is? look it up. So we have to hook up the tester to deactivate SBC, then change pads/rotors
Oil Changes [Forgot again, our new cars. . .they don't have dipsticks. So again, hook up the tester, check the oil level. But I'm sure someone like yourself, who's not a "loser" can just guess and get it right.]
Alignments [I must be a moron, because again, I forgot that to do a level calibration. . . you guessed it, gotta hook up a tester.]
Tire rotations, and mounting and balancing On 20-22" rims, without scratching them?
Shock/Spring replacement [Here we go again, have to hook up the tester to drain out the air or hydraulic oil before changing them
Timing Belts [We don't deal with these, but it's on the contract]

And there's a host of other things too that I can't remember right now because I don't have the contract in front of me. So it's NOT just changing oil.

What I'm getting at, is the fact that you can't just get some untrained kid off the street, pay him 14.25 an hour to do these jobs. Because he'll do it wrong. I know that if I had one of these cars, I would never take it to a dealer that would let someone like that work on my car.

And as far as getting out of the union. Most people at my shop would like to have it out. But at the same time, we all know that if the GM had his way, he'd probably be paying us all 10$ an hour, because he probably thinks just like you do, thinking that anyone could do this job. So, the union stays. Also, we could just "sign the paper" and go back to work, but that would be "crossing the line". And there are some serious penalties if one crosses the picket line.

I for one am not a huge fan of this union, but you know what, it was here, and now I'm part of it. So if that means that I have to walk out to show my support for my union brothers, you damn well better belive that I will. And you also damn well believe that if I was ever able to lay my hands on one of the very few assholes yelling "get a job!" or "go back to work!" that it wouldn't be pretty. The main reason I'm not a huge fan of our union, is because it's a domestic shop union. I didn't go to the schooling I did to make the same as a guy who works on Chevys and fords all day. Not to take anything away from them, they are intelligent, and they'll have to deal with our technology in a few years.

22$/hr to 17$/hr is not a pay cut, it's a complete change in lifestyle. If I was your boss, and walked up to you and said that I'm going to pay you 5$/hr less just because. What would you do? I stay because I have this thing called "loyalty". This is the place that believed in me, and gave me my chance, I'm going to make it worth it to them.

But seriously, Robert, look in the mirror before you start calling people "morons" and "losers". We're just like you. Trying to make a living, trying to make something of ourselvs. We don't deserve to be branded that just because we are taking movement against badly managed dealerships.

I'd write more, but I'm too pissed off to think straight right now.

I think I'm done now.

Eric [The loser]
[Also the guy who will stand beside his fellow union brother for what he believes in]


------------------

Used is such a harsh term. . . I perfer "Previously obsessed over"
88 base coupe: Busted again
Wait. . . Did I just say I can't wait to do more work on my Fiero?. . .what, am I retarded?

 
quote
Said by Crazy Dave "You can take Steve out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of Steve."


(\__/)
(='.'=) <<<< Cute Bunny.
(")_(")

[This message has been edited by Racingman24 (edited 04-22-2006).]

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KEV
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Report this Post04-22-2006 09:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KEVClick Here to Email KEVSend a Private Message to KEVDirect Link to This Post
Very well put Eric..!
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Report this Post04-22-2006 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNClick Here to Email PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNDirect Link to This Post
HI HO !!!!!! for the technicians !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------

87 GT MP-112 powered, 3800 Supercharged on 19's
88 GT T-top 1 of very few, 119.4 miles
87 GT custom
90 Grand prix STE Turbo
IF YOU AIN'T BREAKING STUFF..................IT AIN'T MODDED ENOUGH

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Report this Post04-22-2006 09:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROPHREKSend a Private Message to FIEROPHREKDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:

1) Turn a drain plug counter clockwise
2) Watch used oil drain into a pan
3) Turn a drain plug clockwise
4) Collect $46K plus benefits.

According to this math I should be making $33,000,000 per year for the work I do. Can't wait to tell my boss!


I'm sorry toddster but we're gonna have to let you go . You see you forgot to change the filter ! and refill with oil ! DOH !

------------------
HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

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Uaana
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Report this Post04-22-2006 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for UaanaClick Here to visit Uaana's HomePageClick Here to Email UaanaSend a Private Message to UaanaDirect Link to This Post
Eric, my apologies for posting that "it's a copy paste from another site" and the language is something I'd not normally use.

As a former Teamster, and growing up north where unions rule everything I've watched more good people put out of jobs due to inflexability on the part of the union then I can count.
The recent NWA strike is another example, those guys are still out front striking for jobs that are gone.

There was never a question of your skills and level of expertise needed for you to work on MBs, but like you said it's a domestic union so the guys who do work on Chevy's and Fords are pulling the same pay as someone like you who has very specalized skills.

So, once again my apologies, and no I'm not one of the guys yelling "go to work/get a job" I usually feel bad for guys walking the line since half don't want to be there but they have to.
I hope things work out for you.

[This message has been edited by Uaana (edited 04-22-2006).]

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84fiero123
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Report this Post04-22-2006 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
Uaana

Is it so hard for you being an accountant to understand that the workers make the money?

I just bought another Suburban in 04 when I had it inspected the guy said I had a bad CV joint because of all the grease on the axel boot.

Long story short, the guys at Jiffy Lube greased the upper ball joint until the grease flowed out of the upper joint and all over my CV joint boot. The boot had no cuts, no rips, no problems.

The inspection guy failed the truck because he thought the boot was bad. All he had to do was wipe the boot down with a rag to see that was not the case. VIP was the place that did the inspection, No union, Jiffy lube did the lube jobs, non union.

If an automotive dealer or any one else is charging $110 per hour and only paying the help $17-$22 an hour the rest is overhead costs, am I right accountant?

So lets say the lights and heat and power all cost $50 an hour to run the shop bays. That gives the company about $35 an hour per hour.

The only person here that is a moron is you Uaana because of your total moronic ideas. I know and accountant canít have a clue about anything but figures so I wonít go any further with this. Except to say that if you call me out you better be prepared for a good old fashion ass reaming.

You are a jerk and just to prove something here all the new cars have all these ABS and a dozen other letters in the alphabet that require you to hook to the computer.

With the technology the is in new cars I donít think you could change your tire Uaana in a new car without reading the manual.

You are a condescending ass wipe that has no idea what you are talking about or the world around you. You spent far to long in school to be of any use to anyone in this world other than as an antagonist for your business.

Get a life.

By the way up here the dearlerships are only getting $55 dollars an hour for flat rate work. In Massachusetts they are only making $90.

------------------
technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post04-22-2006 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jd_66Click Here to Email jd_66Send a Private Message to jd_66Direct Link to This Post
gee i got a job last year at a union company (gm)... man i must be a real loser..lmao just couldnt resist
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Report this Post04-22-2006 11:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott-WaClick Here to visit Scott-Wa's HomePageClick Here to Email Scott-WaSend a Private Message to Scott-WaDirect Link to This Post
Those working on domestics are dealing with the same technology issues the mercedes guys are, need to hook up the computers to do anything anymore. Everything is networked on the vehicles, they are doing specialized computer networking type jobs where in any other field they would be making triple the rate for easier/less complicated work.

And are having the responsibility of doing it to the level of expectation you'd hold for someone responsible for your personal safety.

You can't even rotate tires without reprogramming anymore on some models.
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Report this Post04-22-2006 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for UaanaClick Here to visit Uaana's HomePageClick Here to Email UaanaSend a Private Message to UaanaDirect Link to This Post
I'd reply to 123's post but I've been drinking.. and so far this has been a civil debate.

That said, once again, even though Eric is supporting his union brothers and all that..

Like they give 2 craps about him.. they're not paying his bills, or supporting his lifestyle.

Sears is a semi independant dealership, if they just say f it and sell out to another MB dealership he's out a job.. the guys working in the big chain Ford/GM lots dont' have much to lose since their dealerships can asorbe the lost revenue.

Pay attn 123 I've been union, and lived union.. I've seen more people put out of work and left on welfare than I want to remember.
Unions had a purpose, there time has come and gone.
A guy like Eric should be making 27 an hour like the independant shops, he's being held back by a union that supports the lowest oil monkey / tech in the US shops.
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Report this Post04-22-2006 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AusFieroClick Here to visit AusFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email AusFieroSend a Private Message to AusFieroDirect Link to This Post
Well there is always the laternative.
Car gets taken to dealership at certain time and sits to accumulate with the other cars in for an oil change.
200 cars accumulate in the dealership.
Factory trained "in India" tech flies in and does all 200 oil changes for $0.50 an hour and is dispatched via cattle class straight back to India.
Dealer charges ever owner $100 each.
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Report this Post04-23-2006 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
So now the unions are holding down the pay in the shops right Uaana?

What a crock. You had someone here tell you something that hurt your feelings and then you cut and run.

Go back to your bottle. You are nothing more than a loud mouth union basher. If it is in your best interest to say they keep cost high, then you take that route.

If itís in your interest to say they make costs low you follow that line.

You are nothing more than the drunken looser that you say all union members are.

To say what you say without any regard for anyone else's opinion or the facts is just plain stupid.

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technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-23-2006).]

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Report this Post04-23-2006 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
I find it hard to believe that anyone with your outlook on life has gotten this far without someone trying to shove something in your mouth to shut you up.

Keep drinking and acting like the ashole that you are. Your opinion means nothing to me and most every other person on the face of the earth.

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technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post04-23-2006 11:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageClick Here to Email MinnGreenGTSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
You are a jerk... You are a condescending ass wipe... Get a life.

You are nothing more than the drunken looser...

Keep drinking and acting like the ashole that you are. Your opinion means nothing to me and most every other person on the face of the earth.



I might not support Robert's viewpoint on the topic, but you are getting way out of line with your "commentary". This has been a civil conversation, and Eric wrote an excellent detailed reply showing that they are educated about what is going on around them.

You've just gone through repeating what others have already stated more-clearly and with a civil tone, and you're resorting to name-calling. Let it go... you're not helping anyone's argument here.
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Report this Post04-24-2006 06:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
Forgive my vulgarity towards Uaana. I also did a long explanation of why I thought the union was a good thing.

It was a little over the top but in my defense and every one elseís that defended the union stand.

Uaana always says the union makes things cost more.

(From his own lips he said that the union in this case was keeping the wages down)

Unions have no place in todayís society.

(This is obviously one case where unions have a need to be here, if Sears is keeping the wage lower.)

Union members donít give a dam about each other.

(Yet The Machinists Union No. 77 may go on strike in support in 2 weeks.) Sounds like they are supporting their Union brothers.

To take a stand against unions in all situations without regard to the reason is stupid, arrogant and ignorant.

Yes Unions have made mistakes in the past as far as striking when they shouldnít but to say that they have no place at all in today's society is wrong.

Also if I offended you or anyone in this post my sincere apology's to all that may have been offended, Except Uaana. He called me out.

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technology is great when it works
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Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post04-24-2006 08:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

Forgive my vulgarity towards Uaana. I also did a long explanation of why I thought the union was a good thing.

It was a little over the top but in my defense and every one elseís that defended the union stand.

Uaana always says the union makes things cost more.

(From his own lips he said that the union in this case was keeping the wages down)

Unions have no place in todayís society.

(This is obviously one case where unions have a need to be here, if Sears is keeping the wage lower.)

Union members donít give a dam about each other.

(Yet The Machinists Union No. 77 may go on strike in support in 2 weeks.) Sounds like they are supporting their Union brothers.

To take a stand against unions in all situations without regard to the reason is stupid, arrogant and ignorant.

Yes Unions have made mistakes in the past as far as striking when they shouldnít but to say that they have no place at all in today's society is wrong.

Also if I offended you or anyone in this post my sincere apology's to all that may have been offended, Except Uaana. He called me out.




You aren't reading and understanding Uanna's post, 84fiero123........

Unions do make things cost more. Unions believe that all members, no matter how skilled or unskilled they are in their particular job should be paid the same wage. Thus, some worthless, lazy slackass makes it through the cracks and gets hired and continues to mess up or never shows any future potential should be paid and retained along side a bright, energetic, fast learning employee.

Sears isn't keeping the wage lower. They're trying to cut out a niche to pay an employee what they're worth, not overpay them as a fully skilled auto technician/mechanic.

Another union may go on strike to "show support"....... Hmmm, sounds like what I hear as a Soldier.... I didn't go to Iraq to fight in the war because I wanted to. I went because I was told to. (Forced in a way. Abidding by my contract.) Those union "brothers" are being forced to strike.

"To take a stand against unions in all situations without regard to the reason is stupid, arrogant and ignorant."

I'm sure you're correct, because to take a stand against a union would be using free will and indepentent thinking and we can't have that in the workplace!


In regards to Eric's comments on the light duty work that is so skilled..... (Eric, I'm not a mechanic. And maybe this question is similar to you asking me as a Soldier........ "How hard can it be to take that hill?")
You explain that the light duty stuff is very technical today. I still don't see it that way. I come in for a brake job, oil change or shock replacement. You say that the car needs hooked up to the computer and then work can be done. Isn't the computer spitting out the info you need to do the repair or service and the light duty mechanic performs what the computer says? That doesn't sound to technically hard to me for $17/hour. Yet, I bring my Buick to a dealership saying it's making a sound and the SES light isn't on and this and that have been giving me problems, I expect my GM mechanic's knowledge and experience to find the problem and fix it.......Not some guy that spends his time changing oil, shocks and brakes. I take my 2000 Buick Regal to a GM Dealership because those mechanics are specialized to know what to look for in my Buick whereas many mechanics in PepBoys will hunt for hours to figure out the problem. (Well, I also go to the Dealership because I have a good buddy that works there and know my warranty is accepted there.)
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Report this Post04-24-2006 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
Aceman unions do not believe that all workers should be paid the same wage you are the one not understanding.

All unions have different classifications with different pay scales.

What they are trying to do here is take an employee classified as a journey man technician and put him on a piece work rate.

If they want someone to just change oil all that Sears has to do is hire someone to just change oil at a lower rate.

They think that even though the man has all the technical skills to do anything from engine rebuilds to computer work he is worth less when he does an oil change.

You need to get a grip on life and understand what is going on with this. They never said that they would hire a oil changer at the same rate as a journey man technician.

They want to take a man who has the knowledge to do many more things and cut his pay just because he is doing something that someone with less skill could do.

They want to pay someone less.

Hire someone just to change oil.

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technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post04-24-2006 09:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aceman:

Another union may go on strike to "show support"....... Hmmm, sounds like what I hear as a Soldier.... I didn't go to Iraq to fight in the war because I wanted to. I went because I was told to. (Forced in a way. Abidding by my contract.) Those union "brothers" are being forced to strike.



Unions donít go on strike without holding a vote.

Majority rules.

Democracy.

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technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post04-24-2006 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Unions donít go on strike without holding a vote.

Majority rules.

Democracy.




Union members get bullied in those votes. Plus, they'll strike as long as their bennies hold out.

Mob Rules.

More sheep just following along, clueless.
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Report this Post04-24-2006 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguyClick Here to Email TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyDirect Link to This Post
I challenge anyone who supports unions of any type to read "Atlas Shrugged". But none of you will.

Unions *may* have served a purpose at one time, but not any longer. Businesses don't exist to make employees rich. If the employees want to get rich they should go out and start their OWN company. It's not hard. I've done it dozens of times, and I'll do it until I get it right. Who else has that kind of balls? Certainly not union labor. If you're offended by this, well, welcome to America. You could always strike and not read my posts.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 04-24-2006).]

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Report this Post04-24-2006 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RACEClick Here to visit RACE's HomePageClick Here to Email RACESend a Private Message to RACEDirect Link to This Post
I am also union. Management in my industry is also actively engaged in the creation of B scale wage rates. Even though I don't work in the auto industry I support you and any group that seeks to stop the bleeding of middle-America.

Keep the faith brother.
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Report this Post04-24-2006 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
So itís alright for management to make qualified technicians take a pay cut without any reason other than they feel they need to make more off the working man?

Unions are not trying to make members rich just make a livable income.

Taijiguy

God forbid anyone have a different outlook on life than you. Obviously unions still have a place in America to help the workers get a fair wage or they wouldnít still be here.

Well when you get it right be sure to tell us what it is that you are doing because I sure as hell am not going to buy anything from you. I will also make sure that all the union people I know learn about your attitude on unions.

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Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post04-24-2006 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post
Heaven forbid, I'm going to say this.......

I agree 100% with Tajiguy's post.

The company's only goal is to make more money for the company. The managers and execs of a company aren't there to line the workers pockets. They're there to line the owners' pockets. That is the American way. If you want everyones pockets lined, that would be a co-op where everyone shares in the business' profits.

What???? $17/hr isn't a liveable income for entry level work?

What I don't understand about the union members' mindsets is that they don't understand today.......If management doesn't want to budge, all they have to do is hire non-union members at a lot less of a wage. Some guy from Tires Plus would be happy to go from $12/hr to $17/hr to work for a dealership.
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Report this Post04-24-2006 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguyClick Here to Email TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

So itís alright for management to make qualified technicians take a pay cut without any reason other than they feel they need to make more off the working man?

Unions are not trying to make members rich just make a livable income.

Taijiguy

God forbid anyone have a different outlook on life than you. Obviously unions still have a place in America to help the workers get a fair wage or they wouldnít still be here.

Well when you get it right be sure to tell us what it is that you are doing because I sure as hell am not going to buy anything from you. I will also make sure that all the union people I know learn about your attitude on unions.




The unions are still here because they're dug in like Alabama ticks. An accurate analogy in more ways than one, as they're also sucking the life-blood out of many corporations. Striking and demanding more and more compensation for less and less work, and then wondering what happened when the company they work for closes its doors and goes overseas.
I laughed my ass off when a friend of mine who ran an HVAC company closed up shop after his guys voted to go union. Long story, but I can tell you, the guys were making great money, were treated very fairly, and made regular bonuses. The union rep didn't care about any of that, all he knew was there were twenty guys who could be paying union dues. If you think the unions exist for the benfit of the laborer. you're more naive than I already think you are. He ignored the economics of the existing situation and working arrangement for these guys, who were probably already making at least labor rates. Instead, the union reps greed caused twenty guys to lose their jobs. Uh huh. unions are a great thing. Very ethical. (ROFL Sorry, i tried, but I just couldn't even say that with a straight face...gimme a minute to compose myself...)
I never said you'aren't entitled to your opinion, never ever ever. I just disagree. I do challenge you, no, I DARE you to read "Atlas Shrugged". Also, take some economics classes and see if you can't actually build an opinion about this on KNOWLEDGE, rather than emotion. But again, I know you won't. No one here will, because that would require some action on your part. (Not something unions are known for, except when it comes to going on strike) It would also require a degree of objectivity and a willingness to evaluate your position.
I think it's absolutely hysterical that unions accuse owners and managers of being greedy, when all unions do is scream "moremoremore for mememe".
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Report this Post04-24-2006 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
oops

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-24-2006).]

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Report this Post04-24-2006 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post

84fiero123

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quote
Originally posted by Taijiguy:

I laughed my ass off when a friend of mine who ran an HVAC company closed up shop after his guys voted to go union. Long story, but I can tell you, the guys were making great money, were treated very fairly, and made regular bonuses.



Is that what you felt was great money or was it the local prevailing wage for these types of jobs?

I could almost understand this if the company wanted to cut wages and cut the cost to the customer. They are not going to do that, they are just going to keep the extra.

All they have to do is create another classification for a lube man and hire someone as just a lube man at that rate.

No they canít do that. God forbid they do anything that would make sense.

------------------
technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-24-2006).]

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Report this Post04-24-2006 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearClick Here to Email fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Taijiguy:
I think it's absolutely hysterical that unions accuse owners and managers of being greedy, when all unions do is scream "moremoremore for mememe".


There is the key, right there. If a business owner has the GALL to want to make money, he/she is GREEDY (bad! evil!). If a worker or labor union wants more money...oh, that's okay!

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Report this Post04-24-2006 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguyClick Here to Email TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Is that what you felt was great money or was it the local prevailing wage for these types of jobs?

I could almost understand this if the company wanted to cut wages and cut the cost to the customer. They are not going to do that, they are just going to keep the extra.

All they have to do is create another classification for a lube man and hire someone as just a lube man at that rate.

No they canít do that. God forbid they do anything that would make sense.


Here's the thumbnail sketch: The guy paid his techs based on experience. His wages were competitve. But there's more: he also paid them performance bonuses, PLUS, they all had the opportunity to make additional cash by bringing the salesman (me) leads for system sales. They could also sell service agreemtns and accessories directly and earned the same commissions as me. He held a bonus meeting every month, which was a catered luncheon, and everyone received their bonus checks. I'm betting everyone there earned at least as much, if not more than union shops. Plus they were part of a "family". The guy who owned this shop was a great guy. Most of the guys workign for him had been to his house for cookouts and parties. I can tell you with absolute certainty, that this guys company motto was Win-Win-Win; first the customer has to win, then the employee has to win, and ultimately the company wins. The union rep didn't care a single bit about any of that. All he cared abuot was generating revenue for the union. He sold them on job security, not wages. (of which, non of these guys were under any immdiate risk fo losing their jobs) Everyone thinks there's this gap that divides employers and employees. I can tell you that unions do NOT do anything to close that gap.
Sure, there are companies that don't give a rat's ass about their people. So what. That's their problem, not mine. I'm a hell of a worker. So instead of whining and complaining, I did something about it. I quit, I took some inititiative and all of my money and I started a business. So far I've had about a half dozen companies, and right now am starting to finally realize some success. I've worked my buns off for five years to make my compnay into something. To earn a reputation as an honest and honorable business person in my community. And you think I should let some guy off the streets come ina nd work for me and dictate to me how much I should pay him, or be critisized by you or anyone else because I make more money than a guy I'm ginving a JOB to? If he doesn't liek the wage, he can quit, it's OK with me. Man, this is crazy....There is so much wrong with the attitude of the average laboror I could go on all night....

Tell me I'm wrong here if you can, but I don't think you can; the average worker has a "win" attitude, where the labor wins, and they don't care about the rest.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 04-24-2006).]

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Report this Post04-24-2006 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


All they have to do is create another classification for a lube man and hire someone as just a lube man at that rate.

No they canít do that. God forbid they do anything that would make sense.


Actually they are trying to do that......

Quoted from the STrib article:

"One provision would create a new "light-duty" mechanic classification that would pay newly hired workers who do common jobs such as oil changes an average of $14.25 an hour, compared with $22.31 an hour currently paid to journeyman mechanics. Under the proposal, existing journeyman mechanics would earn $17 a hour for tasks classified as "light-duty" work"

So management is doing a squeeze play here.... If the journeyman mechanic doesn't want to do the light duty work @ $17/hr, fine they'll hire a new employee called a "light duty mechanic" The technical journeyman mechanic lost out on that work. So instead of say 30hours @ $22/hr and 10hours @ $17/hr, the mechanic who refuses to work at $17/hr for those jobs gets only 30hours of work on that paycheck.

Now that may suck, but that's business.

I worked at a Holiday Inn as the weekend Night Mgr years ago. As a Manager, I was paid $6.50/hr and had all meals I at comp'd. During the week, I needed the hours and was paid $5/hr to be a desk clerk. It sucked, but it was legal and it was much better to have 24 hours/week @$6.50/hr and 16hours/week @ $5/hr than only 24/hrs @$6.50.

Perhaps those dealerships will lower their oil change prices with cheaper labor. Right now, they aren't getting the common man's business charging $29.99 for an oil change when the common man can have Midas do the same service for $12.99. Sure, they'll pocket some of the savings, but I would guess that their prices will go down a bit to pick up more business.
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