Okay, We Give Up
We feel so ashamed
By The Editors


There's no easy way to admit this. For years, helpful letter writers told us to stick to science. They pointed out that science and politics don't mix. They said we should be more balanced in our presentation of such issues as creationism, missile defense and global warming. We resisted their advice and pretended not to be stung by the accusations that the magazine should be renamed Unscientific American, or Scientific Unamerican, or even Unscientific Unamerican. But spring is in the air, and all of nature is turning over a new leaf, so there's no better time to say: you were right, and we were wrong.
In retrospect, this magazine's coverage of so-called evolution has been hideously one-sided. For decades, we published articles in every issue that endorsed the ideas of Charles Darwin and his cronies. True, the theory of common descent through natural selection has been called the unifying concept for all of biology and one of the greatest scientific ideas of all time, but that was no excuse to be fanatics about it. Where were the answering articles presenting the powerful case for scientific creationism? Why were we so unwilling to suggest that dinosaurs lived 6,000 years ago or that a cataclysmic flood carved the Grand Canyon? Blame the scientists. They dazzled us with their fancy fossils, their radiocarbon dating and their tens of thousands of peer-reviewed journal articles. As editors, we had no business being persuaded by mountains of evidence.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000E555C-4387-1237-81CB83414B7FFE9F

I love these guys...

LOL! I thought they went over to the dark side, starting by having half their brains removed and finishing up by burning all their books.

JazzMan

Actually Creationism and Intelligent Design are two different things. Intelligent Design has nothing to do with christanity or the Genesis belief. ID doesn't even suggest a young earth, but basically suggested that an intelligent creator, be it God or Aliens, inputed DNA sequences to formulate life.

ID is trying to explain the begining of life, and not really disproving evolution.

I think the ID is worth exploring in discussion, however, I do not believe it warrents itself much in science as it does more in psychology (the study of the mind). So I don't mind ID, but it does not belong in biological science.

I guess now I can start reading their soon to be unbiased publication. I don't know how I'm going to unlearn all that "unscientific" bull that was published in the past...

ID is just another way of saying that anything too complicated to understand must be magic.

Aliens created life here? LOL!

Although several of my favorite authors have explored that concept, the most interesting one being that we are evolved from food animals that were left behind when the alien empire that had cultivated this planet as a food planet collapsed.

And the alien empire is back, and hungry...

JazzMan

count back 4 months and 19 days
what is the date????

they do that every year THEN 4-1

april FOOL

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Definately has no place in a scientific publication imo..

yep, dem scientific types aren't allowed to have a sense of humor

That was funny.

The scientific model is flawed. You can use it to test things like sex because they can be measured but you cannot test love because with the scientific model it does not exist. We all know that is not the truth but the modern scientific community singularly believe in the natural processes and will not even consider any supernatural processes. Science teaches that chaos created order, nothing creates something, non life created life, and you say creationism is a religion and Macro evolution is not? Surely you jest! There is a creator and his name is Jesus.

As far as carbon dating is concerned it is terribly flawed. c14 has not hit an equilibrium in the atmosphere so that means that is still increasing and is not constant so who can you use something that is not constant to measure with?

Here is some great reading for those of you with an opened mind. Heck they are pictures so even if you don't have an opened mind you can't do much about it.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/giants.htm

Ah, but love can be tested scientifically and in great detail it gets researched a lot. Love is mostly chemical reactions good or bad.

Carbon dating is accurate enough for what it is used for and can be/is backed up with various other methods. This is one of those flawed arguements like stating that you can't use your chainsaw for mowing the lawn, therefore chainsaws are useless and the earth is therefore flat.

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Ah, but love can be tested scientifically and in great detail it gets researched a lot. Love is mostly chemical reactions good or bad. Carbon dating is accurate enough for what it is used for and can be/is backed up with various other methods. This is one of those flawed arguements like stating that you can't use your chainsaw for mowing the lawn, therefore chainsaws are useless and the earth is therefore flat.

When did Scientific American say the earth is flat?!!!
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Ah, but love can be tested scientifically and in great detail it gets researched a lot. Love is mostly chemical reactions good or bad.

Exactly! And that is why after countless hours of testing, field studies & actual human evaluation I have improved on the age-old formula for "Love Potion # 9". (& You thought that it was just a corny song) Soon on e-bay I will be offering for sale NEW & IMPROVED, "Love Potion Type-R". Just think of the profit potential! Here's you chance to get in on the ground floor of my new pharmaceutical company. Send all of your dollars to......

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/creationism_footprints.HTM

http://www.unmuseum.org/palx.htm

Interesting that the link you provided didn't show these supposed human prints inside of dinosaur prints. Should be all sorts of pictures of them from hundreds of angles if they exist. Easier to claim their existance on faith than to grab a camera and go prove it I guess.

Here is the 'human' footprint.... http://www.bible.ca/tracks/taylor-3b.jpg Oh, destroyed by two well known unnamed evolutionists... that's almost funny. Probably liberal evolutionists that voted for Clinton...may they burn in hell.

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/taylor+5.jpg Another 'footprint'... I guess that just proves it!

Here is the website wish pictures and analysis however flawed http://www.bible.ca/tracks/taylor-trail.htm

The local 'museum' http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2005-08-05/pols_feature5.html

Here is a article on a creationist website by a creationist talking about these footprints. Only mention of human footprints are his walking next to the dinosaur ones.

http://www.creationevidence.org/cemframes.html?http%3A//www.creationevidence.org/excavations/turn_patt/footprints.html

I will believe as soon as you can show me one time that life can be created from non life. The human brain is more complex then the universe with over 1 trillion neuron connections. The human cell is more complex then the computer you are typing on but all of this just happened. You believe in your god and I will believe in my God but don’t do not be fooled you beliefs are religious. It might be crazy that I believe in God but the phone just rang and the kettle wants to talk....

quote Originally posted by Liquid-Reality: I will believe as soon as you can show me one time that life can be created from non life. The human brain is more complex then the universe with over 1 trillion neuron connections. The human cell is more complex then the computer you are typing on but all of this just happened. You believe in your god and I will believe in my God but don’t do not be fooled you beliefs are religious. It might be crazy that I believe in God but the phone just rang and the kettle wants to talk....

Wait a minute, dinosaurs can't be real because they don't fit into my little square box understanding of the universe. I want to use opinion to argue against facts. Carbon dating is flawed even if it does match other unrelated dating methods. It doesn't matter to me that radiocarbon dating can be proven effective when dating objects that we already know the age of. Counting millions of layers of sandstone can't mean the earth passed through millions of years because a little book says it's only 6,000 years old and I am not allowed to question that book. Scientists are evil. There is no water on mars because that may lead to proof of simple life forms on other planets. I don't care that intelligent design isn't peer reviewed in professional journals or based on factual analysis or even considered a scientific theory. I can't hear you, la la la la la la la la la.....

That about sums up your argument, we can move along now. Or did I miss something?

Hold on a second.

.

nope.
.
.
I don't care.

wait.
.
.
.
.
nope.
.
.
.still don't care.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 08-22-2005).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Liquid-Reality:

I will believe as soon as you can show me one time that life can be created from non life. QUOTE]

It's called Conception.

Which is harder to believe... that a woman got pregnet with out haveing sex with a man... or in a glob of gew radation turned random atoms into biological matter...
Both seem just as crazy... but only one doesnt tell me how to live my life.

The difference between the scientific and the religious is that the scientific admit that they're making educated guesses about stuff that happened a really long time ago. Religion gives simple answers to complex questions for people who can't accept "I don't know" as a valid answer.

one day long ago, aliens came to earth, and said "where are the women"? having heard (somewhere around tau ceti) that "earth girls are easy", they were expecting a good time, but were disapponted to find that there were no earth girls. being on the job and sort of lonely, they set out to make it so that this problem would not confront future visitors. carefully selecting from the least unappealing of the apes, at great personal sacrifice, they proceeded to establish a selective breeding program whereby the most intelligent among them had wild hot animal sex (purely for scientific purposes, of course) to mix their DNA with that of the locals. some of you here are the result. me, i'm pretty much pure alien blood, and am of the superior (though benevolent) race. i think that pretty much explains everything, dont you?

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

For a moment, I almost thought this was a political thread.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: but only one doesnt tell me how to live my life.

I have to wonder if that statement is the crux of point of view of those who don't believe in God.

For the record, I'm on the fence. I really don't know which is the truth.

quote Originally posted by Liquid-Reality: There is a creator and his name is Jesus.

Please see John 1: 1-5

You're not alone in your belief Liquid-Reality. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Mark 4: 9

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Visit my website!
David
2 Corinthians 5: 17

quote Originally posted by 87_FieroGT: Please see John 1: 1-5 You're not alone in your belief Liquid-Reality. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Mark 4: 9

But from my favourite book "He who has eyes, let him open them" Johnny 1:1

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: But from my favourite book "He who has eyes, let him open them" Johnny 1:1

LOL!

It's always the very young who think they see with clarity and certainty when, in fact, they see through tunnel vision.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: But from my favourite book "He who has eyes, let him open them" Johnny 1:1

quote Originally posted by jstricker: It's always the very young who think they see with clarity and certainty when, in fact, they see through tunnel vision. John Stricker

Sad, but true.

David
2 Corinthians 5: 17

Yes, being indoctrinated by way of your parents, teachers, neighbors, and pastor throughout your entire life has given you great clarity and unbiased vision of the natural world.

Don't you think it strange, how you people offer no realistic facts to support any of your claims, yet you think science and those of us who agree with it have tunnel vision? Because frankly, I sure as hell do.

no offense.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 08-23-2005).]

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: no offense.

If that's true, I'd like to suggest skipping the "rolling eyes" thing. It's demeaning.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: If that's true, I'd like to suggest skipping the "rolling eyes" thing. It's demeaning.

But then I 'd have to give up my biting sarcasm. You wouldn't want that would you?

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 08-23-2005).]

quote Yes, being indoctrinated by way of your parents, teachers, neighbors, and pastor throughout your entire life has given you great clarity and unbiased vision of the natural world.

Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but I was not "indoctrinated" by any of the people you mentioned. I had my worldly life before Christ and I have my life after being born again and I can say for a fact that I've never had so much joy and purpose in my life as I do now. It's been about 5 years now in my walk with the Lord and I'm not turning back.

I used to think the way many of you do regarding the Bible and science. I see things differently now. I don't particularly see that as any reason to poke fun or laugh at anyone. As for "realistic facts", I see those all around me everyday in the beauty of His creation. I cannot offer any explanation as to how He did this or even exactly when, all I know is what the Bible says He did and I believe every word of it.

That's where I'm coming from.

BTW, I'd like to thank connecticutFIERO for opening up this topic to allow the believers on the board to share our faith.

Praise the Lord!

David
2 Corinthians 5: 17

Heh, nevermind...

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 08-23-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 87_FieroGT: . As for "realistic facts", I see those all around me everyday in the beauty of His creation. I cannot offer any explanation as to how He did this or even exactly when, all I know is what the Bible says He did and I believe every word of it.

Whats wrong with trusting the natural world? Why does it have to be "his creation"? Is the world any less magestic if it came about through a natural process? Why do you have to believe in magic to believe in the teachings of Christ? Isn't it plausible, in fact PROBABLE that his teachings and story were fantastically amended through memory, translation, and even desire to make it "more miraculous". I have no problems with the bible or its teachings, but literal interpretation is borderline insanity in my opinion. You know you are fooling yourself, and yet you do it anyways.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 08-23-2005).]

Nice thread Conn...!

'bout time. I guess you're not such a total waste of carbon molecules afterall.

Conn,

Here's two realistic facts that you can show me, then I'll buy into evolution.

1) Demonstrate to me how, mathematically, it's even REMOTELY PROBABLE that aminos can form and combine and then spontaneously burst into life with no outside intervention. You don't have to do it, just make me a mathematical probability model that shows a probability of, oh, say, greater than 5%.

2) Show me just one example of one species mutating or changing into another new species. If the theory of evolution is sound, then it has had to happen millions of times. Show me where it has happened.

That's all. Make me a convert.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Yes, being indoctrinated by way of your parents, teachers, neighbors, and pastor throughout your entire life has given you great clarity and unbiased vision of the natural world. Don't you think it strange, how you people offer no realistic facts to support any of your claims, yet you think science and those of us who agree with it have tunnel vision? Because frankly, I sure as hell do. no offense.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Conn, Here's two realistic facts that you can show me, then I'll buy into evolution. 1) Demonstrate to me how, mathematically, it's even REMOTELY PROBABLE that aminos can form and combine and then spontaneously burst into life with no outside intervention. You don't have to do it, just make me a mathematical probability model that shows a probability of, oh, say, greater than 5%. 2) Show me just one example of one species mutating or changing into another new species. If the theory of evolution is sound, then it has had to happen millions of times. Show me where it has happened. That's all. Make me a convert. John Stricker

I don't have the time nor the desire to engage in a an endless debate about this yet again. You don't believe in evolution because you believe in God. It has nothing to do with Science for you.

Nope. I don't believe in Evolution as the CREATION of life because it is so mathematically improbable that if we were discussing anything other than Evolution on a scientific basis, those that put forth the theory would be laughed out of the discussions, and THAT is a fact.

I asked you two simple, scientific questions to provide me with answers for. If there were an answer for them they would be easy to find. There isn't, yet you cling to Evolution as the way things began with no proof or substantiation.

There's a name for that, it's called religion.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: I don't have the time nor the desire to engage in a an endless debate about this yet again. You don't believe in evolution because you believe in God. It has nothing to do with Science for you.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Nope. I don't believe in Evolution as the CREATION of life because it is so mathematically improbable that if we were discussing anything other than Evolution on a scientific basis, those that put forth the theory would be laughed out of the discussions, and THAT is a fact. I asked you two simple, scientific questions to provide me with answers for. If there were an answer for them they would be easy to find. There isn't, yet you cling to Evolution as the way things began with no proof or substantiation. There's a name for that, it's called religion. John Stricker

I never stated I knew how life began. But I certainly believe in life evolving. Which creationists do not. THAT is laughable. It's a heck of a lot more convincing to see early life forms dating back to the Mesozoic era being our distant relatives then it is to believe a magical being waved his hand and created a 1000000 different species of insects.