OK long story short. My girlfriend is moving to a bigger city for college. She somehow recently aquired a handgun to feel more secure in a bigger city. She's a small town girl. She is 19 and only wieghs like 110 so she thinks she needs somthing to protect herself.
I think mase or pepper spray would be fine. But she insist on keeping the handgun. I am all for guns. ( I am in the Army and have shot bigger guns than most people) But I just think it is more of a risk to her. (If it ever came down to her using it, or trying too)

Any thoughts, am I just being stupid, or what?

Cory

I think you are right on target.
I have no doubt others will disagree,though.

Damm. I managed to trash my original reply.

Anyhow - if your girlfriend gets caught with that handgun, someone is going to be in trouble. You have to be 21 to legally purchase or posess a handgun in the US. You also have to be 21 to legally purchase or posess handgun ammunition, unless the ammunition can also be used in a rifle and you own such a rifle (like a Winchester 94 in .44 Remington Magnum).

That doesn't even take into consideration whether or not she has been properly trained in the handgun's use, and that she almost certainly won't have the ability to practice regularly. In short, IMO she should leave the handgun home with her parents and rely on her common sense to best avoid at all times those situations where she would be placing herself at real risk. If she feels compelled to carry something for personal protection, she can carry pepper spray.

[This message has been edited by LarryB (edited 08-01-2005).]

Get some CS/OC/Pepper spray. She can get in ALOT of trouble for having it. And if she has to use it, she will get in trouble anyway for an illegal firearm...She is looking at jail time as it is.

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Owning a gun doesn’t make you safer. In fact it only escalates the level of violence. If she is not prepared to kill someone and live with that for the rest of her life then she needs to find another way to defend herself.
If she insists on keeping the gun then make sure she knows how to use it, 20 year veterans have been known to miss a target 20 feet in front of them when they are in a high stress situation.

I know about the stress thing. Being trained as a police officer we are told over and over again about being able to actually hit somthing in front of you.
I don't know what to tell her though. She's so set on being afraid of getting raped and stuff. And she says I don't understand because I am a guy.
If she does not carry it at all times, or sleep with it under her pillow, it's pretty much pointless, in my opinion. it's not going to stop anything but her fear.

Grrr
She is making me feel guilty for not wanting her to have a gun. Saying "do you want me to get raped" and about me not understanding.

What should I say or do?

Cory

You are the one who knows what she is like. I'd say she doesn't sound nearly responsible enough. Especially if it is illegal to have a gun at her age. Have her talk to a female police officer. She can explain that she is moving, yada, yada and that she wonders what the best kind of personal protection might be. I'm sure the officer will seriously explain the choices, especially the down side of carrying an illegal weapon.

It would be a lot better than having her panic and shoot the first person to spook her in the dark at school. Maybe the thought that her new cell mate might rape her as well will sober her up.

If she moves and practices a safe lifestyle, she should be fine while getting comfortable in her new surroundings. Travel with friends, don't jog or walk in dark, empty areas, don't go drinking or clubbing alone, have a cell phone that she can use to check in with friends if she's somewhere alone.

No where is completely safe. Carrying the gun is much more dangerous to her than to others.

a little martial arts training might help here, on a couple of levels.

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 08-01-2005).]

You should NEVER get a gun for self defense unless you are actually going to use it. That means killing someone should the need arise. If she cannot do this or isn't prepared to do this, she should get rid of the gun. The criminal will just take it away from her and use it against her if he figures out she won't use it.
If she has the gun illegally, she should get rid of it. It will cause her a lot more trouble than she will be prepared for.
If she has no firearms training, she should get rid of the gun. It is more of a danger to her than she will ever know.
People like her are the reason gun owners are getting a bad reputation. If you don't know how to properly handle, store, and use a firearm safely, you should not be in the possesion of one. I am willing to bet that she knows very little at all about fire arms and that can be very dangerous to her and anyone around her while she has this in her possesion.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 08-01-2005).]

A handgun will never get used by her, whereas pepper spray or mace attached to a keychain will. Where is she going to conceal a pistol on her person that she can honestly get at and use. If she wants the handgun for protection in the house, tell her to buy a baseball bat for $20 and a shotgun for $150. The shotgun will be more effective and less lethal. Shoot it straight in the air and I guarantee an intruder will run. You don't miss with a shotgun and at a distance are more likely to injure the bastard so he can live to pay for the crime.

Nothing to fear but fear itself.

Many good points made here. She needs to be a certain kind of person to properly use a hand gun in self defense or to turn the tide as it may be in a stressful situation. Usually takes training but then any other means to defend one's self usually takes training.

I would suggest you to sit down with her and identify the fear/threat as it may be then find the best solution. A handgun is not and I repeat IS NOT the best way to deal with most bad situations. Handguns and guns in general are brought in as a last solution to end a problem. She needs to ask herself does she really want to be making that decision when the options get that few. I would think it best to use the head on her shoulders to resolve most all problems and stay out of bad situations. Some self defense classes offer much better solutions to avoid or head off trouble than the gun approach. Now that being said hope she got a nice gun and knows how to use it.

All the other arguments are spot-on.
My approach would be to research the crime stats for the area where she's moving. Do the stats support her fears?
If that's the case, why is she going to school there, in the first place?
If not, and her fears are irrational, perhaps she needs to talk with a psychologist. (Please don't misunderstand. This statement was made with the kindest and best intentions.)

Remind her that colleges usually have their own police departments.
When I was doing radio communications, I worked with several campus police departments. They take their work as seriously as any city police department does, and they only have to focus on the campus. They don't have to divert their attention to other areas.

FWIW, I used to carry a handgun when I worked in downtown Atlanta. All I carry now is pepper spray, if anything. It's actually easier to not have to deal with the gun.

Dump the gun....

Most college campuses have an "escort program" (get your minds out of the gutters). If you're in a building on campus after dark, and you don't feel safe walking back to your dorm, you can call a campus phone number...sometimes it's the campus police, sometimes other organizations. They will send someone to escort you safely back to your dorm. You will also find "blue light" standards all around campus. These are emergency "centers"...if you need assistance, you can go to one of those. Some have phones, some have push buttons, but if you activate it, the campus police will be there in a matter of seconds. Colleges take the safety and security of their students pretty seriously. So, the chances are small that she'll have problems. My daughter goes to school in St. Louis. We're from a small town, so of course, I worry. But I feel that she's pretty safe where she's at...and she's been there long enough to know what parts of St. Louis to avoid....so, I don't worry TOO much. She also knows to travel with others if she has to go somewhere, so that also helps.

Well, if she's under 21, it's most likely illegal for her to have. I don't claim to know every states' laws, but in most areas it's illegal for someone under 21 to possess a handgun. I don't agree with many gun control laws, but breaking them can cause all sorts of problems. However, if it was legal for her to own it, she should, if that's what she wants. BUT, she (or anyone else considering buying a gun) should understand that owning a gun requires a huge commitment. It's not good enough to buy a gun, throw it in a drawer, and consider yourself "safe". Guns demand a tremendous amount of respect. That respect doesn't come in the box with the gun; one acquires it only through experience.

I'm all for people owning/carrying a gun, but I also feel you need to be realistic about them. As others have said, if someone is going to own a firearm for defense, they have to be ready to aim that gun at a person and pull the trigger, knowing full well they may take that life. And it's also essential to receive training in the safe handling and carrying of a gun, as well as the proper techniques for shooting one. Owning a gun without accepting the responsibility that comes with ownership is dangerous, both to yourself and others---not to mention that it won't do a person any good for defense if they don't know how to use it properly. It can also land you in a lot of legal trouble if you fire at someone without justification.

Pepper spray can be an excellent deterrent, although it won't incapacitate everyone. Some people have even built up an immunity to it. And "Mace" is actually a brand name for a variety of tear gas, which is not legal for civilians in most areas of the country. Relying on the police for protection is wishful thinking at best. That's not a slam towards police officers, it's just that unless they are in the right place at the right time, they can't prevent crime. They're not psychic, they normally are there to take the report and search for the assailant. In other words, AFTER the crime has occured. What I would encourage her to do is look into a self defense course. There are many out there that tailor the training to women, i.e. geared toward a threat that's most likely bigger and stronger than they are. They also teach one of the biggest components of self defense, namely how to recognize a bad situation and avoid it before it becomes too late. And when a bad situation is unavoidable, she'll learn some stuff that can help keep her from becoming a statistic. It's not a guarantee that she'll stay safe, but neither is a gun. It's like the saying goes, there's no guarantees in life. All she can do is prepare, so that the odds are on her side.

When she becomes legally able to own a handgun, she should reassess her desire to own one (and all that comes with it). In the meantime, she should stay legal and explore other options.

My sons are 19, they both legally possess a .357 Cal handgun. One of my sons lives in New York the other in Washington. They both leave their .357's here. In New York you have to be 21 and have God himself with you when you apply for a hangun permit. If I felt I were in a situation where I might be murdered, I'd feel much safer with either or both of these boys, especially if they had there handguns. They are extremely well trained in the use and care of these tools and would not hesitate to kill if they believed it necessary. As other people have stated though the quickest way to get killed is to attempt to use the gun without firing it. The problem with using a handgun as protection is it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon almost anywhere. Not so, in some states if you have a concelaed carry permit. If its out where the perp can see it, he is more likely to do real physical harm, right from the start. I like the martial arts idea. It would also give her more confidence that she can defend herself in varying circumstances. There are a thousand more ways to recover from a martial arts mistake than a revolver mistake and you don't need to fumble around in your purse for your matial arts, it's always ready to go. In other words I would feel nearly as safe with my sons if they didn't have their guns with them and carrying a handgun is just not practical. I hope you can convince her to learn to defend herself with herself and save the hangun for weekend outings. If not, try to make sure she knows how to use it and care for it properly and don't make any sudden moves!
Good Luck!

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/web_applications/concealcarry/About.asp

http://www.packing.org/state/ohio/

I didn't quite get if it was legal for her at 19 to be carrying, but there are other issues... it's illegal to carry on a college

Quote follows:

Places off-limits while carrying

Date updated: Jul 28, 2005 @ 10:15 pm

Sec. 2923.126. (B) … does not authorize the licensee to carry a firearm

* A Police Station.
* Sheriff’s Office
* State Highway Patrol Station
* Premises controlled by the Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation,
* State Correctional Institution, Jail, Workhouse, or other Detention Facility,
* Airport Passenger Terminal,
* School
* Courthouse or building that Houses a Court.
* Public or Private College/University (May keep locked in Vehicle in Packing lot)
* House of Worship.
* Child Day-Care Center.
* Any and all areas of a building that is owned or leased by this state or any political subdivision of this state,
* A place in which federal law prohibits the carrying of handguns.

End Quote

Read it, understand it... if she wants a gun and has the training and will to use it properly... go for it.

Hope this helps

quote Originally posted by lurker: a little martial arts training might help here, on a couple of levels.

Agreed!
This will help her in a lot more ways than just protection. It will change her life.
I do also believe she will want some pepper spray as well but the above comment made by Lurker works on many levels beyond protection.

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