I hear a "thoomp" outside my home and look out. There are four cops, guns drawn and pointed at a "subject" laying on the ground by his pulled over car. Got outside in time to see "subject" not complying with orders not to move and to show his hands. "Subject" has his feet towards the officers and his hand underneath his car behind the driver's front tire. They would not move in on the "subject" and I heard shouts of "I see the gun ! It's underneath him !" "Subject" would not comply and as the officers tried to move in the subject would move somewhat and the officers would flinch back. Eventually they were able to get to the subject from many different angles and as they pulled him away from his vehicle I could see a massive amount of blood about the "subject's" head area. The "thoomp I had heard was him being shot by the police.
He was very badly injured and a Life Flight helicopter was called in and landed right next to our home. My across the street neighbor heard the yelling as he was being told how to exit his vehicle and saw him be shot. As stated he had a gun, and she said she saw him exit with his hand (gunhand) hidden aside his body.
I know things like this happen everyday but not here. It happened within 20 feet of my property line and I must say it is not like it is on TV. It is traumatic in real life. I do not think the guy will make it. I do not know what he did but do know he exited a vehicle with a gun. One more bad guy down.

That's kinda scary.....

DANG!

Im sure there are a few cop's that won't get much sleep tonight.
It's always a tough call, and something no cop want's to do.
But the outcome layed entirely in the hands of suspect.
Live by the sword, and you die by the sword.

That's very scary.
I'm glad to hear that you and your family are alright.

quote Originally posted by Deabionni: That's very scary. I'm glad to hear that you and your family are alright.

Thanks.
After COPS, I get to see CSI. After about two hours they never did open the "suspects" car. It was towed I presume to the police garage for investigation. Just before the last officers leave two of the three San Antonio TV stations show up with satellite trucks. It was odd seeing my home in the background on the noon news. It was reported as a routine traffic stop (?four cop cars?) of a person wanted on felony charges who was reported as likely suicidal and being classified as a possible "suicide by cop". Reported as a 22 year old, shot in the face, "air lifed" to San Antonio, and expected to recover.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I hear a "thoomp" outside my home and look out. There are four cops, guns drawn and pointed at a "subject" laying on the ground by his pulled over car. Got outside in time to see "subject" not complying with orders not to move and to show his hands.

Glad you are safe. For future reference, if you see the cops outside with drawn guns, stay in the house. The cops will appreciate the fact that you aren't adding more variables to what is already a stressful situation.

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: Glad you are safe. For future reference, if you see the cops outside with drawn guns, stay in the house. The cops will appreciate the fact that you aren't adding more variables to what is already a stressful situation.

Steve, you are right and I agree. My property extends over 180 feet across the street and we were well back from the scene. We also were near a natural shield should we have seen the man get up off his belly, roll over and try to point a gun towards the officers, an 180 degree manuver. The angle of the officers guns also were pointed at a right angle to where we were standing and again they were well away. If I am ever pulled over at night I turn on my interior lights to let the officer have a better view of the situation he is encountering. I have been thanked for that.

Life sure does get interesting sometimes. Several months ago, I came upon a felony traffic stop near my home. There were 4 guys in a mid-80's Grand Prix pulled over, and a total of 7 squad cars covering these guys and every cop near had guns drawn, including a couple of shotguns. The roadway was a divided highway. There were 3 squads behind the stopped vehicle, blocking the roadway, 2 squads actually on the median, and 2 more squads in the grass off to the right. Had these guys done anything stupid, they were covered. At the time I got there, they were still in the vehicle, and with so much firepower on display, I boogied out of there quickly. I had not heard anything about it after that.

Mark

Again an interview with KSAT channel 12. I got the Fiero behind me but I think the Grand Prix dwarfed it.

When I was younger and got speeding tickets all the time, I would put both my hands on the top of the steering wheel as the officer walked up. I never had anything to hide, but a 2nd uncle who was a cop told me that is the best thing to do.

Knock on wood I don't get pulled over now!!!!

quote Originally posted by cliffw: If I am ever pulled over at night I turn on my interior lights to let the officer have a better view of the situation he is encountering.

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: I would put both my hands on the top of the steering wheel as the officer walked up.

Good point. Yes I do this also and was also told by my friend's brother (an officer) this is appreciated.

Supposedly it turns out the "suspects" family had called the cops on him reporting him to be suicidal and when an officer showed up he took off. The felony thing seems to be in doubt.

http://www.dailytimes.com/ Local paper link that will probably be changed soon showing the helicopter with an article.

Sad. I have been in the immediate vicinity of a shooting as well. It is an experience that will go with you for a long time.

quote Originally posted by RACE: http://www.dailytimes.com/ Local paper link that will probably be changed soon showing the helicopter with an article. Sad. I have been in the immediate vicinity of a shooting as well. It is an experience that will go with you for a long time.

Yes, our local paper has been updated on your link.
It must be a bigger story than I realized. The news vans from San Antonio are back and their sattellite dishes are going up. Another San Antonio station (FOX) also just interviewed me. This time the GT should be in it if they do not edit that part out.

when i get pulled over i try to pull the vehicle off a main road and park it in such a manner that i cannot pull away (ie into a parking space or against a telephone pole) then i roll down the window, turn on the interior light, turn off the car and place the keys on the dash. then wait with my hands on the wheel until he gets there.

Common sense says, a little politeness goes a long way in the eyes of the law.

I have way too dark window tint in my wife's Intrepid, and we've each been pulled over for speeding in the past year in it. Both times, like stated above; engine off, dome lights on, window down, both hands on the wheel. "Yes sir", "No Sir", "registration is in the glove box", "my wallet is in my pants pocket". Never give the cop anything to worry about. Their job is dangerous enough as it is.

My speeding infraction was reduced BIG TIME, on the spot, from what it could have been, and my wife got a warning. Never even got a comment about the tint.

UPDATE

The television news satelite trucks were outside my home again yesterday afternoon so I walk over and ask what the story is. It seems that the Kerrville Police Department would not release the dash camera video of the shooting until forced to do so by the news organizations under the freedom of information act.
I was asked to view it and give an on camera opinion of it. I can see why they did not want to release it. It was very disturbing.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I hear a "thoomp" outside my home and look out. There are four cops, guns drawn and pointed at a "subject" laying on the ground by his pulled over car. Got outside in time to see "subject" not complying with orders not to move and to show his hands.

I finally get to see the whole thing. They unjustly shot that man. In the head, although it only hit him in the face. I believe there is some permanent paralysis.
The officers were no-billed by the grand jury. Talk about being a puppet of the county attorney

quote Originally posted by cliffw: One more bad guy down.

The only thing the suspect was charged with was a misdemeanor of unlawfully carrying a weapon. Not attempted assault on a peace officer. Not resisting arrest.
Looking at the dash video( I stress disturbing ), it appears that our finest are either trigger happy, to nervous to have control of a gun, or severly lacking in training. After seeing the guy get shot, you see the officer lay an assault rifle on the hood of the dash camera patrol car. Before the guy was shot, the officers were responding to a despondent subject carrying a firearm. The video shows them ordering him out of the car in a prescribed fashion. He got out but not as prescribed and he did get out with the gun. However, he was at a right angle to the officers (there were a few of them), not looking at them, and had the gun at a full arms length down by his side. After refusing to drop the gun he was just shot in the head with an assault rifle.
He would have had to look at the officers, pick a target, bring his gun up, aim and fire. He did none of this against multiple officers who had a target, guns up and aimed. They shot that man unjustly !
I will see if I can find a link to the video.
Sad.

they shot him unjustly? Wtf?

He is a registed felon with warrents out for his arrest, DESCRIBED to the cops as suicidal...and gets out with a gun.

To quote Sean Connery "The first rule of Law Enforcement is you ALWAYS go home that evening."

What are they supposed to do? WAIT? Until the crackpot works up the balls to snap off a round or two?

Obviously a dead cop is just cause to shoot a suspect...but theen youve got two dead, a suicidal felon, and an LEO.

He did what he sould have, and I hope to god he doesnt get sued.

But he will, because this is America, land where you are free to protect yourself until after the fact.

quote Originally posted by CommanderKeen: He is a registed felon with warrents out for his arrest, DESCRIBED to the cops as suicidal...and gets out with a gun.

Hmm...I do not see anywhere else that he was a registered felon nor had outstanding warrants. He was not arrested for outstanding warrants, just a misdemeanor.

EDIT
If your felony reference was in responce to earlier posts, this was unfounded info initially after the shooting, corrected before the day of the incidents end.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 05-05-2005).]

quote Originally posted by CommanderKeen: What are they supposed to do? WAIT? Until the crackpot works up the balls to snap off a round or two?

It is not hard for me to imagine the cops using their cars as shields. What they should have done is........not what they did.

I guess they don't have less than deadly alternatives in your community. A bean bag or rubber bullet could have gotten their message across. The cop must not have been a good shot neither, he was supposed to blow the suspects head off with that shot, not shoot his jaw and tongue off. This causes a lot of $uffering and damage$.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: This causes a lot of $uffering and damage$.

And higher taxe$ from the payout.

Okay, he pulls over and gets out with a gun. He does not drop the gun as instructed and he gets shot. It is not hard to figure out what is going to happen when you do something that stupid. I hate it for the cop that shot him and all the crap that his family is about to go through. As far as the idiot who got shot, some of life's lessons are hard and they really suck, but that is the result of the choices you make.

BTW- my brother, a police officer, took a man's life in the line of duty and it is not something to take lightly. In a split second, he had to make the choice to live or die and he chose to live. The family sued the city and him for everything under the sun and it was rough for a long time. That incident was several years ago and he is still not the same. When an officer is sworn to protect and serve, protecting themselves is also part of the job.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Okay, he pulls over and gets out with a gun. He does not drop the gun as instructed and he gets shot. It is not hard to figure out what is going to happen when you do something that stupid.

I do agree the man did something stupid. He was reported to not be in his right mind by his own family, eager to help him. Reported by his own family that he had a gun.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: In a split second, he had to make the choice to live or die and he chose to live.

You were referring to your brothers incident and I do not question his decision. However, in this case, the four or five police officers had an advantage of about five split seconds over this suspect and thier autos as shields.
I am sorry but I believe they unneedlessly shot this guy.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Okay, he pulls over and gets out with a gun. He does not drop the gun as instructed and he gets shot. It is not hard to figure out what is going to happen when you do something that stupid. I hate it for the cop that shot him and all the crap that his family is about to go through. As far as the idiot who got shot, some of life's lessons are hard and they really suck, but that is the result of the choices you make.

Proper protocol to get shot!

I'd reckon the man is high on the list of stupidity. Good candidate for the Darwin Awards.

KIRKWOOD, N.Y. – A Broome County sheriff’s deputy was shot and killed on the Fourth of July after encountering possible suspects from a
firearms store burglary in Great Bend, Pa.

Deputy Kevin J. Tarsia, 36, was shot 15 times, and then run over by a car, then shot again said Broome Sheriff David E. Harder. He died at the scene. Harder
said it remained unclear if Tarsia fired his weapon during the attack.

Three men were arrested Saturday, three days after the shooting, in connection with Tarsia’s death. Jeffrey A. Nabinger Jr. and David Sweat,
both 22, were charged with first-degree murder. Shawn J. Devaul, 23, was charged with third-degree criminal possession of a weapon. Harder
said Devaul was “a non-participant in the murder” as he watched the shooting armed with a gun.

The tragedy began shortly before 4 a.m., when burglars used a truck to smash open the front door at Mess’s Fireworks, a Great Bend, Pa.,
store that sells fireworks and guns. The thieves stole about a dozen handguns and rifles and fled the scene. A burglar alarm alerted state police
to the break-in.

Troopers believe Tarsia surprised the suspects at Grange Hall park, a small park off Grange Hill Road just north of the New York-Pennsylvania
border. Tarsia approached the suspects, who were transferring the guns they had stolen from one vehicle to another. The suspects opened fire,
killing the deputy. Tarsia was not able to contact the dispatchers during the incident or ask for help.

The suspects stole several items from the deputy’s patrol car, including his .40-caliber Glock handgun, and escaped the area, police said.

A passerby discovered Tarsia, his patrol car and a stolen truck at about 5 a.m.

More than 100 officers from 15 different police agencies assisted in the investigation of the shooting. A source who learned about the shooting
gave police information that led to the arrest of Nabinger, Sweat and Devaul on Saturday.

Police said solid police work and good communication was key in solving the crime.

“There’s nothing more serious than the murder of a police officer,” said state police Troop C Maj. William Foley. “This is another example of what
we can do when we join resources like this.”

Tarsia, a 13-year veteran of the department, is the only deputy killed in the line of duty since the sheriff’s office was founded in 1806. He got
engaged last year and was planning to marry soon.

I met this man, but more than that, he was engaged to one of my best friends Christie Ann Ciccone, who was the person who found me at a
State Park on March 19th. It seems he's still doing what he did best and that was helping others, Christie says that it was through his spirit
that she was able to find me that day- as far as I'm concerned there is no other reasonable explanation as to how anyone could have found me were I was. Sometimes shoot first and ask questions later is better than losing a good man, son, husband, and friend.

[This message has been edited by F-I-E-R-O (edited 05-05-2005).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: However, in this case, the four or five police officers had an advantage of about five split seconds over this suspect and thier autos as shields. I am sorry but I believe they unneedlessly shot this guy.

Sir if I were to have my pistol in his position and wanted to shoot someone they would have less than 1 second with my range being accurate within 30' to being fatal.

I agree upon appearance this looks like a none threatening man holding a gun but it can be a deadly situation for a cop in less than a second.

quote Originally posted by Butter: Sir if I were to have my pistol in his position and wanted to shoot someone they would have less than 1 second with my range being accurate within 30' to being fatal. I agree upon appearance this looks like a none threatening man holding a gun but it can be a deadly situation for a cop in less than a second.

Butter, I am not absolute in my opinion, but it is an opinion. I have discussed this situation with my across the streeet neighbor who had a different angle of view than the dash camera.She was also an eyewittness of the officers shot and the events just before it. I saw the drama after the "thoomp" in my driveway. I do not know what I would have done if I were the officer.
The fact remains to me, that these officers had more than an advantage than any man could in the suspects situation. Weapons drawn, aimed, locked and loaded, and with vehicles as shields.
I seriously doubt any man could have gotten a kill in the suspects position. I believe the officer's gun went off unintentionally, in my honest opinion. Still needlessly.
Yeah, shoot and ask questions later. Well questions are being asked. The answer will be a payout with the usual, "no wrong doing". How did that ever make sense ?

Hey You were there. I just saw a video. The reason I give the officer the benefit of doubt is because the man had a gun in his hand. He could plainly see the cops had the advantage but since he didn't put down the gun like he was told logically he meant to use it for some reason. The reason may have been death by a cop with no intention to fire it. I don't know but the man could be seen as a threat IMHO.

As you have already pointed out the law in Kerryville may not be the best it could be. They had a situation on their hands and they had to do with what they had. They did meet force with force. However they did not give much time to assess the situation before action was taken as I observed. The officer that pulled the trigger will surely have a report to file and there in l believe should be the reason for his actions.

The question does come to my mind of why did he shoot him in the face. That is a reflection of his training no doubt. Did he mean to kill him or is he just a bad shot?

From a standing position with my hands held ear high I can pull a service .45 from a holster on my hip with a flap on it faster then you can register what I am doing. From 10 feet I can kill you with a screwdriver before you could do the same thing. I spent 3 years on armed security duty in the Navy and trust me this guy was a threat.
It is very sad that it had to happen and I am sure the dash cam doesn’t show everything and it looks bad for the cops.

quote Originally posted by Butter: He could plainly see the cops had the advantage but since he didn't put down the gun like he was told logically he meant to use it for some reason. The reason may have been death by a cop with no intention to fire it. I don't know but the man could be seen as a threat IMHO. The question does come to my mind of why did he shoot him in the face. That is a reflection of his training no doubt. Did he mean to kill him or is he just a bad shot?

Butter, as the situation affects me as too close, my mind is clouded. I hope you are not thinking I have no faith in the Officers of my community.
He was not logical, as reported by his own family members who did not expect him to be shot with an assault rifle by a police force that had to be forced to release eveidence who was called to help. I agree, I would have considered him a threat. Yet....
I don't know. Just seems wrong to me.
An afterthought of mine is that the officers did need to worry about his posible erractic shots. Which could have hit me, my wife, my neighbors, even my dog.
I still have a gut feeling about this. Maybe I am wrong.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I still have a gut feeling about this.

When I have those gut feelings I'm usually correct but not always right. Still I'll stick with my gut. My opinion of him being a threat is much like Jake's --

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: It is very sad that it had to happen and I am sure the dash cam doesn’t show everything and it looks bad for the cops.

One thing that keeps coming up in my mind is that his family said he was suicidal. There are reports of people who want to kill themselves but don't have the grapes to follow through, so they get help from law enforcement by doing what this guy did. I think the report called it called it "Suicide by Cop".

quote Originally posted by Butter:

I am not one that can disagree with the officers. I was not outside when it happened. My neighbor was and at a different angle than the dash cam, as Jake-Dragon stated.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: ........"Subject" would not comply and as the officers tried to move in the subject would move somewhat and the officers would flinch back.

These officers were no doubt scared.
As stated by the Grand Jury, in fear of their lives.
I am at this time, still standing by my opinion. I (unmentioned due to clarification under the Freedom of Information Act) have requested a copy of the officers upon the scene, reports. I would like to see that the reports back up the video. I do wish to believe. It was and is disturbing.
I just do not. It is not the officers, my other situation, I just do not feel it was right. I would like to believe.
I can tell you this. By being there. From the suspects house where the initial call was made to where he was stopped (by my house) was about two and a half blocks. The officers were there quick but not slow enough to have a plan.
I would have to check and I am not going to, but the timeline from call to shot in the face with an assault rifle was about three minutes. Aw heck, I will check.
Nah, I need to let this go.
Last post.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: One more bad guy down

Hummmm. When was the trial?