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Car stereo experts again!....Sub box questions by Gokart
Started on: 01-13-2005 04:37 AM
Replies: 9
Last post by: Mach10 on 01-14-2005 07:19 PM
Gokart
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Report this Post01-13-2005 04:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartDirect Link to This Post
I have two totally different dual speaker sub boxes and wanted to know why there are differences and the advantages/disadvantages of the designs. First I have a small pyramid with two 6" speakers. The second a MTX 10" with two speakers. Both have the standard black felt covering the outside. The Pyramid has one tweeter for each speaker and has a divider inside the box separating the two woofers. No thick felt on the inside and vent holes on the top for each side. The MTX has two tweeters for each woofer and NO divider inside dividing the two woofers and thick felt on the inside and no vent holes at all! My questions are...why the divider in the Pyramid? Should the MTX have one? Should the Pyramid have felt inside like the MTX? Should the MTX have vents holes with the plastic inserts on the top for each woofer like the Pyramid? Educate me please

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 04-06-2005).]

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KingOfKings
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Report this Post01-13-2005 01:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KingOfKingsClick Here to visit KingOfKings's HomePageSend a Private Message to KingOfKingsDirect Link to This Post
The felt on the inside won't make a difference on the sound quality. The divider on the Pyramid box isn't necessary either. The point of that is, if you have 2 subs in 1 box, and one sub loses power (amp stops working), then you don't have 1 sub using twice as much airspace as it should be. As long as both speakers are working, you won't have any problems. The vent holes in the one box are for bass output. Also known as ported boxes, the vents allow the subs to move more air, thus creating more bass. Ported boxes are usually alot larger then sealed boxes, and tend to play one FQ really good, and all the others rather "average". Hope this helps, I'm kinda late for school. If you still have questions, I'll be back later to answer them

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Blacktree
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Report this Post01-13-2005 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
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Gokart
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Report this Post01-13-2005 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartDirect Link to This Post
Thanks a bunch and pluses to both of ya I'm making my own behind the seat boxes and know I have some knowledge for the project!

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 01-13-2005).]

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KingOfKings
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Report this Post01-13-2005 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KingOfKingsClick Here to visit KingOfKings's HomePageSend a Private Message to KingOfKingsDirect Link to This Post
That's a good lookin box. What's the 2nd hole for?
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Mach10
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Report this Post01-13-2005 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mach10Send a Private Message to Mach10Direct Link to This Post
Speaker box design is an artform. You can't bung a hole in a sealed box and expect it to perform properly. Neither can you just make a box any old size, drop a speaker in it, and expect it to perform.

You need to know a few things about the speaker before you can go about building a box for it. If you don't know anything about the woofer (model/TS parameters), then you are SEVERELY limited by the speaker box design.

If you don't know the driver specs, the best you can do (and expect reasonably decent) results is to make a sealed enclosure.

In general, for most woofers, larger (to a point) is better (bigger Vas of the box usually means lower resonance frequency; i.e., stronger bass). for 10" subs, I wouldn't go any larger than 0.75CuFT.

Here's a few things.

1) Internal dampening: Dampening on the insided will reduce "standing wave" interference within the box. Basically, it smooths out the response curve a little, since you will get some harmonic dB losses (based on box size and shape.) Also, the filler alters the resonance of the box itself, so it behaves (accoustically) like a box about 10% larger (12" driver, 1.0cuFt box)

2) Vents: Don't. Just... Don't. Bass-reflex boxes are picky about size and shape, and any deviation changes the sound completely.

3) Partitioning: I'd ALWAYS partition a box if there's more than 1 driver in it. For starters, not every sub is entirely the same, and little differences can add up considerably. Secondly, you can get some weird harmonics if the two subs don't get EXACTLY the same signal (I.e., running them in "stereo" or with poor signal mixing). And lastly, you get better cone control if the box volume is smaller.

4) Tweeters: I dont know why ANY car audio manufacturers still insist on doing this. Firstly, the sub is usually placed in an area that defeats the purpose of a tweeter (who the hell wants treble in the trunk? :wtf and secondly, it means you have to supply a full range signal to the sub. Which goofs up the accoustics (since most of your music will sound like it's coming behind you) because below 80hz, sound is omnidirectional. Also, mixing bass lows (25-100hz or so) with mid-levels makes the bass muddy, since the sub has to work harder generating all the useless tones.

To do it right, have ONLY a sub in a sub-box. If you insist on the tweets, put them up front where they belong. You don't even need a box for them (most of that type are compression-horn style anyway) so mount them in the dash. And get some kleenex, 'cos your ears are going to BLEED.

If you DO know the TS parameters of the sub, post 'em here, and I can design you an appropriate box.


EDIT: Oh, and one last thing; If at ALL possible, NEVER use plywood for box construction unless you are willing to brace the hell out of it internally. Plywood resonates all over the place. This means it will ring like a bell, and it will KILL any semblence of sound quality. The ONLY material of choice is MDF (Medium Density Fibreboard). MDF has much more neutral accoustical properties, and for the purposes of enclosure, is practically neutral.

Looks damn good; I'd suggest that you disassemble it, get some MDF, and use the existing peices as a template. You obviously have some skill with woodworking, so you know how to work with MDF... everyone else; MDF doesn't like being cut by anything except fine-toothed sawblades. Don't use a coarse rip-saw blade unless you want it to split and fray at the ends

[This message has been edited by Mach10 (edited 01-13-2005).]

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Mach10
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Report this Post01-13-2005 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mach10Send a Private Message to Mach10Direct Link to This Post

Mach10

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BTW, send me the box measurements, and I can probably let you know how it'll perform (in general). I'm running some models with the standard MTX 10P30 (Which I believe went into most of their full range 10" boxes)
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Gokart
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Report this Post01-14-2005 06:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KingOfKings:
That's a good lookin box. What's the 2nd hole for?

Thanks. The 2nd hole is because the original box had two tweeters for each speaker.

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Gokart
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Report this Post01-14-2005 06:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GokartSend a Private Message to GokartDirect Link to This Post

Gokart

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quote
Originally posted by Mach10:Looks damn good; I'd suggest that you disassemble it, get some MDF, and use the existing peices as a template. You obviously have some skill with woodworking, so you know how to work with MDF... everyone else; MDF doesn't like being cut by anything except fine-toothed sawblades. Don't use a coarse rip-saw blade unless you want it to split and fray at the ends

I used 3/4 on the plywood and used panel nails AND P/L construction adheasive. It's pretty solid and I had them in today just as a test run and I was pleased. I will take your advice and felt the inside and I'm going to look for material to match the interior for the outside. I wasn't happy about putting the woofer so low but I had to for magnet clearance. Convertable Indy was telling me krutchfield (spl??) has 10" subs that where only 3.5" deep! If I had those I could center the woofer. I want the tweets because I'm going to disconnect the speakers by the seat belts. Will take measurements tonight and post. Thanks for the advice!

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 01-14-2005).]

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Mach10
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Report this Post01-14-2005 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mach10Send a Private Message to Mach10Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart:


I used 3/4 on the plywood and used panel nails AND P/L construction adheasive. It's pretty solid and I had them in today just as a test run and I was pleased. I will take your advice and felt the inside and I'm going to look for material to match the interior for the outside. I wasn't happy about putting the woofer so low but I had to for magnet clearance. Convertable Indy was telling me krutchfield (spl??) has 10" subs that where only 3.5" deep! If I had those I could center the woofer. I want the tweets because I'm going to disconnect the speakers by the seat belts. Will take measurements tonight and post. Thanks for the advice!

Oh, it's not a case of material strength, more a problem of enclosure resonance and accoustics. Plywood is made of contiguous wood fibers, and they tend to vibrate together(like a guitar string) when they get sound waves hitting them.

What's the dimensions on your box?

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