Has anybody seen this movie? I really want to, but our theater said they aren't going to show it. So if you are lucky enough to get to see it/have seen it, then what was your take on the movie. -Will
Yep, just saw it last night. Made me think that Bush really was the a$$hole that i thought he was.... X10. I would recommend it to anyone who wants to see some of the things that aren't as well known as they should be about our wonderful president.
Yep, just saw it last night. Made me think that Bush really was the a$$hole that i thought he was.... X10. I would recommend it to anyone who wants to see some of the things that aren't as well known as they should be about our wonderful president.
And you know because M. Moore made the movie that it is the god given truth, and their is no liberal left wing bias at all... and absolutely no twisting of facts. I am so sick of seeing that fat puss filled pansy on tv that I could almost puke. Not content with only bashing the Bush and the US government, he has now set his sights on Canada, running a campaign of fear mongering of what Canada would become if we were to elect a conservatives government on our election day. The guy has no credibility in my books - already there are several reports by individuals of misrepresenation of facts or skewing of quotes during his documentary to suit his liberal agenda ala his POS movie Bowling For Columbine. Shame on you Mr. Moore for making a buck off the liberal masses with your misleading drivel, SHAME ON YOU!
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 06-26-2004).]
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08:41 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Michael Moore is the ultimate manipulator. He does know how to make and entertaining movie, I'll grant him that point, but he slants all he shows to try and convince people that he is right. Don't believe all you see, his truth is not a pure truth, it just is what suits him. I'll wait for the DVD to come out.
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08:53 PM
F13R0GRRL85 Member
Posts: 128 From: SilverSpring, MD USA Registered: May 2004
He openly admitted on the Daily Show that everything in the movie is his opinion. People who think its unbiased fact need to do a little more critical thinking and some homework.
People who hate him and everything he does just because he puts a slant on it need to get over it. Everything you see on TV, in the movies, or hear on the radio has a slant to it. If you don't like his slant, go find someone to make similar movies with a severe conservative slant.
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12:59 AM
PFF
System Bot
stimpy Member
Posts: 8197 From: Salinas, CA Registered: Jan 2000
I'm going tomorrow morning to go see it. Yes, Moore is opinionated and does have an agenda, and he makes no apologies for that. I'll reserve any additional comment until after I see the movie, but to call Moore an opinionated biased "pusbag" while nursing from the teat of Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Hannity is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
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01:33 AM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
"To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery."
[This message has been edited by Uaana (edited 06-27-2004).]
I'm going tomorrow morning to go see it. Yes, Moore is opinionated and does have an agenda, and he makes no apologies for that. I'll reserve any additional comment until after I see the movie, but to call Moore an opinionated biased "pusbag" while nursing from the teat of Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Hannity is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
I call it tit for teat. And, he didn't call him anything much worse than what Moore describes himself as.
He openly admitted on the Daily Show that everything in the movie is his opinion. People who think its unbiased fact need to do a little more critical thinking and some homework.
People who hate him and everything he does just because he puts a slant on it need to get over it. Everything you see on TV, in the movies, or hear on the radio has a slant to it. If you don't like his slant, go find someone to make similar movies with a severe conservative slant.
maybe, you sure are a neo-conn, pro bush, anti progressive
BUT that web site is 100% THUMPER thats for sure and thats what I was calling thumper, the site
and He is a FORMER progressive ""Minor problem with that , Christopher Hitches was ONCE a self confessed lefty, and a bit of a nutball then. He more recently, around 9/11, came out as a nutball for the RIGHT, and cops to it completely in interviews."" like this one http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11241
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 06-27-2004).]
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03:04 AM
trailboss Member
Posts: 2069 From: Gilbert, Arizona Registered: Feb 2003
Micheal "ten cheeseburgers" Moore wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the butt, if it did though, the truth would have a big target....
A buddy of mine that is a liberal Democrat emailed me this from Democrat Underground, some over there are hailing Michael moore as their saviour?
I have no idea whether Michael Moore is a follower of Jesus or not.
But I do know one thing: Michael Moore’s film is as much a modern day equivalent of THE Sermon on the Mount as the real Jesus is said to have given 2000 years ago and as real a miracle as the thing that Jesus reportedly did with the loaves and the fishes when he fed the masses and multitudes who were following him for wisdom and starving for the Truth (as well as for nourishment).
Michael Moore has delivered to us the perfect parable of good and evil, the perfect allegory for the blessedness of the peacemakers and the righteousness of the suffering of the innocents and the children and widows as well as the perfect symbols for the Dragon and the worshippers of filthy Lucre. The only thing is, that in Farenheit 9-11 the world’s misery, as in the suffering of the Jews and gentiles under the Roman Caesars when Jesus preached, the parable is not fiction - it is reality.
The masses came to hear Jesus preach his Sermon on the Mount and were fed with the loaves and fishes during the days of great crisis in the Middle East as a foreign force had occupied and was oppressing the indigenous people (the Jews as well as the gentiles and Philistines) with a brutal and barbaric hell. Jesus’ teachings (whether or not you believe he was the messiah or son of God) were about the RIGHTEOUSNESS of opposing evil and warmongering. The blessedness of waging peace instead of war. The beauty of love and goodness.
In the miracle of the loaves and fishes Jesus and his disciples are said to have taken five fish and seven loaves of bread and fed as many as 5000 people who had come to hear him preach the Hillelian peace message of the Torah and the Prophets and heal the sick. When all were fed and satisfied, there were bushels of pieces of bread and fish remaining.
His teachings were a universal lesson of love and redemption and the perils of following those who would harm the little children and pray on the innocent and profit from their greed and wickedness whilst holding themselves in the highest places and feasting with their surfeit of riches - self-righteous, vain and worshipful only of mammon and filthy lucre. More... Like the warrior-like archangel for whom he is named, Michael Moore has delivered us with a miraculous thunderbolt of light in the abysmal darkness of the satanic-like realm of Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and Rice. A beam of sheer brilliance enlightening the conditions of a Gehenna-like chasm of greed-induced torture and degradation and suffering.
As in the miracle of the loaves and fishes, the filmmaker has masterfully woven us baskets of truth which, after we all have fed on this knowledge, will leave bushels and bushels of knowledge left over for those who need to HEAR and KNOW these truths.
Some hearing Jesus speak for the first time, knowing only his reputation for blessedness and wisdom, surely must have wept and cried both tears of joy as well as tears of sadness and even fear: for the teaching was that the evil of man will cause much suffering - though only the Truth can comfort us and teach us that by staying the righteous course of peace and goodness and love can the serpent finally be overcome. The same must be said of Michael’s film. We wept and we sobbed and we embraced and we comforted one another and even cried tears of joy at FINALLY hearing the truth (and in a humanly funny way).
The crumbs and pieces of truth overflow the brims of this multitude of baskets woven by Moore in this film and they will continue to nurture and comfort us as we face the great serpents in Washington.
I know that Michael Moore is not the Messiah. But he sure as hell has proven that he is the messenger of Truth and Love and Peace and , as such, is a righteous and blessed peacemaker who has forever changed the history of the world with his cautionary and brilliant tale tempered in the blazing fires of film ceation. Perhaps a Prophet in the tradition of Jeremiah and the others who warned us of the decadence of our kings and high priests of corruption and doom.Perhaps Micah or Malachi.
Just how do we BEAT these swords into plowshares and LOVE the strangers and homeless - the OTHERS?
In many ways today is a miraculous event. The teacher, the master, has fed us and taught us with knowledge which will surely change the world and the universe forever. America will NEVER be the same place after today because…
a prophet has spoken and the multitudes have listened.
In much the same way as Jesus did with his small sermon and his humble sharing of a communal dinner 2000 years ago. The world is a new place. A better place. A more holy place.
A place that looks just a LITTLE more like the paradise we know it was meant to be by our Creator.
Thanks Saint Michael! Thank you for being one fearless righteous voice in the wilderness!
Now, with your sword of Truth, we will slay the dragon (in November, that is, at the ballot box)!
Seventhson June 25, 2004
(Permission is granted by the author to use th
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09:45 AM
trailboss Member
Posts: 2069 From: Gilbert, Arizona Registered: Feb 2003
The thing that annoys me so much about MM is that he will say everything is his opinion one second, then spend 2 hours presenting everything as though it's proven fact. He also tries to make himself look like "just a regular guy" from his house in Malibu. I saw Roger & Me and thought it was an amusing piece of celluloid. But after watching TV Nation and even moreso after Bowling for Columbine it became obvious that the only truth he wanted to push was whatever put money in his pocket.
I won't waste money going to see F911. I may see it if I can see it for free, but he's not making anymore money off of me.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-27-2004).]
I will not be seeing F9-11. I have read several reviews of it, however.
Moore is obviously a man of some talents. Why he chooses to use these talents to spread lies and hatred is beyond me. As if the nation wasn't polarized enough, he pours salt into the wound.
Don't you guys hate it when you hear someone trashing the Fiero to people who really know nothing about them? You always want to jump in and start defending the Fiero, don't you? That is because you are informed about the Fiero much more than the average Joe. This guy that is telling his Fiero-ignorant buddies about fires, etc. is feeding on their ignorace of the subject and leaving them misinformed. He could say, "Fieros catch on fire. "One little accident and a Fiero is totaled." "People get killed in Fieros". "Fieros very little power". All these statements are technically true but said guy is leaving out a lot of information that might not leave the listeners with such a bad impression. We all know the counters to these "truths" because we know a lot about Fieros but the general public doesn't so they easily form a bad opinion.
This is what Moore does with politics. He knows that vast majority of people are just not well informed or "into" politics. As I said, he is talented. So was Leni Reifenstahl, though. Both knew how to use the camera and editing to create a desired effect. I implore all free-thinging liberals, conesvatives, or whatever to honestly research the points Moore tries to make in this movie. I don't mean going to your favorite partisan website and looking for the answers you want. I mean real, actual research. What some nut-jobs at the Democratic Underground or FreeRepublic post is irrelevant except to show you blind they are with hatred for anybody who doesn't think like them.
Through my research I found Moore to be a master of manipulation. I mean, he is good. He does, however, have a problem telling the truth. He also loves to go to forign countries and call Americans names and generally run our country in the ground on foreign soil. He does this for money, of course, and attention he probably lacked in high-school. Bush probably symbolizes some rich jock who have him a hard time for being stocky and nerdy. He knows his core audience will not likely be swayed by irritating facts or counterpoints. I am aware of many of the points F-9-11 tries to make and, through research, I know that he is not telling the whole story. He is telling less than half of it and leading his audience to the conclusion that he want's them to have: Bush is an un-elected, idiot, redneck, evil, super-genius.
Don't take my word for it, though. I'm just some guy.....like Michael Moore. Do the research.
[This message has been edited by 87GTSleeper (edited 06-27-2004).]
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10:56 AM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
isnt Moore the jerk that got boo'd off the stage at the academy awards?
Yes, he's also the 'jerk' that has the nuts to expose the Imperialist - murderer - elitist that is Bush. I was gonna see it last night, but it got too late.... will see it next weekend.
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11:26 AM
PFF
System Bot
DotTC Member
Posts: 2345 From: Hamlet, North Carolina Registered: Nov 2003
The thing that annoys me so much about MM is that he will say everything is his opinion one second, then spend 2 hours presenting everything as though it's proven fact. He also tries to make himself look like "just a regular guy" from his house in Malibu. I saw Roger & Me and thought it was an amusing piece of celluloid. But after watching TV Nation and even moreso after Bowling for Columbine it became obvious that the only truth he wanted to push was whatever put money in his pocket.
I won't waste money going to see F911. I may see it if I can see it for free, but he's not making anymore money off of me.
Formula, you actually watche dthe entire Bowling for Columbine? I got bored after 30 minutes of his lies and 'opinions'.. turned it off and took it back.
------------------ *ring* *ring* *ring* *ring* *ring* Hi, this is Kettle, leave a message at the beep.. *beep* Hello Kettle, this is the pot.. You're black
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11:30 AM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
And you know because M. Moore made the movie that it is the god given truth, and their is no liberal left wing bias at all... and absolutely no twisting of facts. I am so sick of seeing that fat puss filled pansy on tv that I could almost puke. Not content with only bashing the Bush and the US government, he has now set his sights on Canada, running a campaign of fear mongering of what Canada would become if we were to elect a conservatives government on our election day. The guy has no credibility in my books - already there are several reports by individuals of misrepresenation of facts or skewing of quotes during his documentary to suit his liberal agenda ala his POS movie Bowling For Columbine. Shame on you Mr. Moore for making a buck off the liberal masses with your misleading drivel, SHAME ON YOU!
Good thing this movie doesn't affect you .
What I find funny is that, "wag the Dog" was a shot at Clinton, as this movie is at Bush, but that was OK and this one is not. I don't recall any slander toward anyone when WTD was released.
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11:32 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
What I find funny is that, "wag the Dog" was a shot at Clinton, as this movie is at Bush, but that was OK and this one is not. I don't recall any slander toward anyone when WTD was released.
Wag the Dog wasn't released as a Documentary. F911 is.
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11:36 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Like matter and anti-matter, Michael Moore is the Ann Coulter of the Democratic party. Maybe if we put the 2 of them in a room together they would cancel each other out?
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11:40 AM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
I will not be seeing F9-11. I have read several reviews of it, however.
Moore is obviously a man of some talents. Why he chooses to use these talents to spread lies and hatred is beyond me. As if the nation wasn't polarized enough, he pours salt into the wound.
"Don't you guys hate it when you hear someone trashing the Fiero to people who really know nothing about them? You always want to jump in and start defending the Fiero, don't you? That is because you are informed about the Fiero much more than the average Joe. This guy that is telling his Fiero-ignorant buddies about fires, etc. is feeding on their ignorace of the subject and leaving them misinformed. He could say, "Fieros catch on fire. "One little accident and a Fiero is totaled." "People get killed in Fieros". "Fieros very little power". All these statements are technically true but said guy is leaving out a lot of information that might not leave the listeners with such a bad impression. We all know the counters to these "truths" because we know a lot about Fieros but the general public doesn't so they easily form a bad opinion."
Fieros are great, but they are not life. If Fieros were removed for so-called safety factors I would complain to all ends, but life would go on. When a political figure makes college accessible/inaccessible, makes helth care accessible/inacessible, or drives legislation to revoke overtime from millions of workers then I define that as life. I get your general analogy, but it is abstract.
"This is what Moore does with politics. He knows that vast majority of people are just not well informed or "into" politics. As I said, he is talented. So was Leni Reifenstahl, though. Both knew how to use the camera and editing to create a desired effect. I implore all free-thinging liberals, conesvatives, or whatever to honestly research the points Moore tries to make in this movie. I don't mean going to your favorite partisan website and looking for the answers you want. I mean real, actual research. What some nut-jobs at the Democratic Underground or FreeRepublic post is irrelevant except to show you blind they are with hatred for anybody who doesn't think like them."
They are posted here and probably thousands of other websites/boards long before Moore's movie and they are researched in detail, so I doubt moore's movie changed any voters just as, "Wag the Dog" did not. I don't think many people will reference this movie as factual basis for important arguments.
"Through my research I found Moore to be a master of manipulation. I mean, he is good. He does, however, have a problem telling the truth. He also loves to go to forign countries and call Americans names and generally run our country in the ground on foreign soil. He does this for money, of course, and attention he probably lacked in high-school. Bush probably symbolizes some rich jock who have him a hard time for being stocky and nerdy. He knows his core audience will not likely be swayed by irritating facts or counterpoints. I am aware of many of the points F-9-11 tries to make and, through research, I know that he is not telling the whole story. He is telling less than half of it and leading his audience to the conclusion that he want's them to have: Bush is an un-elected, idiot, redneck, evil, super-genius."
Please post the sources of your research. Why does this movie irk you so? Is there a bit of truth to it? If it was as untrue as you state, and people would reveal it as such, then why be so angry about it?
"Don't take my word for it, though. I'm just some guy.....like Michael Moore. Do the research."
Post your research sites, and remember, sites like "Republican.org" might be as objective as you say Moore is, so don't relegate yourself to the level you say Moore has sunk to.
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11:50 AM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
Like matter and anti-matter, Michael Moore is the Ann Coulter of the Democratic party. Maybe if we put the 2 of them in a room together they would cancel each other out?
Perhaps, but then we would be left with Bush saying, "Do you have Blacks too." So I would rather keep them both, as they both reveal the neo-con agenda.
Mr.Moore readily admites that its totaly his point of view and it is slanted he said so recently in an interview. He is making no attempts to hide it. Although I highly doubt that any of his accusations in this film are false or he would be facing some serious charges. Perticularly because the subject matter is the President of the United States. Im going to see the movie, I already distrust what I hear coming from the "Free" south. I both get rather frusterated and yet find it humorus by the blunders that are happening down there. And the fact that a large amount of your population is only subject to the rather slanted media agencies that are down there.
I think its great to see something that is free thinking and from the other side of the fence coming from the US, and I hope that it encourages more film makers and media outlets to show that there is an other side of the story.
Mr.Moore readily admites that its totaly his point of view and it is slanted he said so recently in an interview. He is making no attempts to hide it. Although I highly doubt that any of his accusations in this film are false or he would be facing some serious charges. ...
no - factual documentaries are the stuff of news reports and pulitzer-award winning media reports
movies are the stuff of makebelive, entertainment and fantasy - If anyone tried to bring charges against Moore for his tripe-in-a-can he would scream "bloody-first-amendment"
if there was any truth to the contents of this film in would be on a special news program, not in the theaters with popcorn and nachocheese.
BTW - Jesus didnt charge those 5000 people he fed $8 a head for bread and fish.
[This message has been edited by Ken Wittlief (edited 06-27-2004).]
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01:13 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
no - factual documentaries are the stuff of news reports and pulitzer-award winning media reports
movies are the stuff of makebelive, entertainment and fantasy - If anyone tried to bring charges against Moore for his tripe-in-a-can he would scream "bloody-first-amendment"
if there was any truth to the contents of this film in would be on a special news program, not in the theaters with popcorn and nachocheese.
BTW - Jesus didnt charge those 5000 people he fed $8 a head for bread and fish.
Very true. And yet, the film is being presented as a documentary. That's the problem.
Quite the contrary; Moore has been plugging his movie non-stop during our election campaign feeling the need to "educate" us Canadians about the evils of a Conservative led government. Because we know, just like all liberals are pansies, all conservatives are imperialistic dictators Like others said, to call any of Moore's movies documentaries is an insult to honest documentary makers. I wish I could tell Moore, Kerry, and Nader that unless they want to start paying into the ludicrous Canadian tax system, to quit endorsing the Liberals and trying to manipulate Canadian voters with their endless rhetoric. Funny, here we have three guys that bash Bush at any given opporunity for his imperialistic agenda trying to force their opinion on us poor saps up north. Here's the latest trash spewed by Moore in this mornings news.
----------
"You've got four days after it opens, to get people out to the polls to make sure that Mr. Harper doesn't become your next prime minister," he said.
"We're trying to get rid of our conservative, you know. We're going one way, you guys shouldn't be going the opposite direction," said Moore, whose new documentary takes a critical look at U.S. President George W. Bush's response to the Sept. 11 attacks and the Iraq war.
"You should be saying, 'You know what? We don't want this country, Canada, to become like Bush's America,'" he said.
When asked why he's concerned with Canadian politics, Moore responded: "Well first of all, I live on the Canadian border. I don't want to have to look across the border and see you guys going our way."
Moore said he's trying to convince Americans to be more like Canadians, and praised the country's "ethic."
"And that ethic says: 'We're all Canadians, we're all in the same boat. If one of us gets sick, that person should get health care 'cause we're all affected.'
"The American way is pull yourself up by your bootstraps: 'Me, me, me, me, me. It's mine. It's mine.' You know? Don't go that way. Your Conservatives are trying to take you that way."
------------------
Yes heaven forbid that a system is ever put in place where a working man could get ahead in Canada. [eyeroll] Here's a little fact for you: Do you know that in Toronto that the average Welfare recipient makes more here than the Welfare workers and that our tax freedom day is almost three months later than down in the states! This is the system Moore is trying to preserve up here in Canada and endorse for the States - a system that in my opinion is fundamentely flawed.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 06-27-2004).]
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02:26 PM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
"no - factual documentaries are the stuff of news reports and pulitzer-award winning media reports"
News reports? Like the evening news???
"movies are the stuff of makebelive, entertainment and fantasy - If anyone tried to bring charges against Moore for his tripe-in-a-can he would scream "bloody-first-amendment""
The 1st Amendment has only a one-way relationship between the government and a citizen, so much of this would not apply. As for civil litigation, the 1st barely addresses these types of issues, so Moore could and likely would be sued if any of this stuff is intentionallly defamatroy.
"if there was any truth to the contents of this film in would be on a special news program, not in the theaters with popcorn and nachocheese."
Special news program? Like on TV? Are you serious? How about on a special TV program like Giraldo finging Al Capone's vault???? Rethink that one Ken.
"BTW - Jesus didnt charge those 5000 people he fed $8 a head for bread and fish."
Speaking of falacy, I guess we can find it on the internet
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02:47 PM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
don't criticize what you haven't seen. that is, unless you care to go on with your knee-jerk backwoods pontifications. think for yourself. even if that's a bit of a stretch. anti-corporatism is not the same as socialism. polemic is not the same as propaganda. dissent is not the same as sedition.
just see it. then there can be rational and informed discussion and disagreements on the film's merits. meow.
------------------ ~i don't disagree with you, so much as i agree with what i said
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02:58 PM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
Quite the contrary; Moore has been plugging his movie non-stop during our election campaign feeling the need to "educate" us Canadians about the evils of a Conservative led government. Because we know, just like all liberals are pansies, all conservatives are imperialistic dictators Like others said, to call any of Moore's movies documentaries is an insult to honest documentary makers. I wish I could tell Moore, Kerry, and Nader that unless they want to start paying into the ludicrous Canadian tax system, to quit endorsing the Liberals and trying to manipulate Canadian voters with their endless rhetoric. Funny, here we have three guys that bash Bush at any given opporunity for his imperialistic agenda trying to force their opinion on us poor saps up north. Here's the latest trash spewed by Moore in this mornings news.
----------
"You've got four days after it opens, to get people out to the polls to make sure that Mr. Harper doesn't become your next prime minister," he said.
"We're trying to get rid of our conservative, you know. We're going one way, you guys shouldn't be going the opposite direction," said Moore, whose new documentary takes a critical look at U.S. President George W. Bush's response to the Sept. 11 attacks and the Iraq war.
"You should be saying, 'You know what? We don't want this country, Canada, to become like Bush's America,'" he said.
When asked why he's concerned with Canadian politics, Moore responded: "Well first of all, I live on the Canadian border. I don't want to have to look across the border and see you guys going our way."
"Moore said he's trying to convince Americans to be more like Canadians, and praised the country's "ethic.""
Maybe it's not his point to interject, as he isn't a citizen of Canda, but I agree with him with the above statement.
""And that ethic says: 'We're all Canadians, we're all in the same boat. If one of us gets sick, that person should get health care 'cause we're all affected.'"
Right, the homeless should have the same access to health care as the millionaires.
""The American way is pull yourself up by your bootstraps: 'Me, me, me, me, me. It's mine. It's mine.' You know? Don't go that way. Your Conservatives are trying to take you that way.""
It's funny how the moral conservatives are supposed to follow good, Jesus-loving morals and not be attracted to greed. Truth is the religious conservatives represent American greed.
I'll quit here, but I think it's important to note that you are a Canadian citizen that has access to generally unlimited health care. I am a working man that is far away from having health care. Lower taxes help the rich so they can have the biggest houses, best doctors, and most lavist luxury for themselves and their families; lower taxes harm the poor, but the poor seem to be lemming enough to buy into the conservative rhetoric that lower taxes somehow help the poor/middle class.
I'll quit here, but I think it's important to note that you are a Canadian citizen that has access to generally unlimited health care. I am a working man that is far away from having health care. Lower taxes help the rich so they can have the biggest houses, best doctors, and most lavist luxury for themselves and their families; lower taxes harm the poor, but the poor seem to be lemming enough to buy into the conservative rhetoric that lower taxes somehow help the poor/middle class.
*IF* healthcare was available to everyone in a timely matter I wouldn't have a quite as much problem with our healthcare system, but as it currently stands, if you are in need of urgent surgery or need any sort of scanning done, you will still have to go to some sort of privatized institution. As a taxpayer it upsets me that after seeing %40 of every tax dollar I contribute to the government going towards healthcare, my family is still being forced to go down to NY for my moms MRI scan. We waited almost three years trying to get my mom into the Canadian system before giving up hope and looking towards the privatized route. This is simply not acceptable. What I don't understand is that when everyone hears the Conservatives plan to establish a privatized health care system they start to panic that the lower class will be denied health care services. I disagree with this. What the conservatives have planned is to allow privatized health care that runs parrallel to the already existing public health care system - the end result being two shorter lines instead of one long line which punishes all canadians because of its mismanagement and severe underfunding. This way, those who can afford to pay the premium price for immediate treatment through a privitized health provider can do so, freeing up their place in line for those awaiting treatment in the public health system. Nobody is denying the lower class medical attention, in fact I see it quite the contrary, they would be getting quicker attention through a private/public parrellel health system. This is why I get so so upset at a liberal fearmongers such as Moore - they don't understand that in order for a socialized system to be beneficial to the population, it must be very carefully managed with the strictest fiscal responsibility- otherwise you will end up with a system such as that which exists in Canada where it ends up punishing all through high taxation and long waiting times. Just throwing money at healthcare and social programs isn't going to help jack squat, it has to handled with a degree of competence which our current liberal government has shown time and time again it lacks.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 06-27-2004).]
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04:01 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
It's interesting to see in a thread titled "Anbody seen Farenheit 9/11?" the multiple postings from people who hate Micheal Moore, who haven't seen the film, and declare that they won't see the film. I just returned from seeing the film and believe me, this is no comedy. Yes, much information is subject to interpretation, but the images that are presented are what hit me in the gut. Images of Iraqis blown to bits, images of wounded soldier, charred bodies in the streets. Nothing funny about that.
I left the theater, not smugly guffawing about Bush's hillbilly affectations, but soberly wondering what possible humanitarian interest is being served by our occupation of another country. We are not fighting terrorists so much as breeding terrorists. Don't believe what Mr. Moore has to present? Then watch the news. How can anyone think that we are winning the "hearts and minds" of the Iraqis, or of anyone in the Muslim world?
A vote for Bush is, above anything else, a fundemental defect in one's moral makeup.
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05:36 PM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
BTW Stimpy.. Have you already forgotten Berg, Pearle, Johnson, Sun? Not critisizing your opinion, but maybe look into the fun and games Saddam and Son's were into, the dealings the French, Germans, and N Koreans had going with Saddam.. ect ect.. Look for both sides.
Moore has publicly stated that this movie is to get Bush out of office.. so what is being presented might be a little one sided and biased.
So if you are lucky enough to get to see it/have seen it, then what was your take on the movie. 
Like others said, to call any of Moore's movies documentaries is an insult to honest documentary makers. I wish I could tell Moore, Kerry, and Nader that unless they want to start paying into the ludicrous Canadian tax system, to quit endorsing the Liberals and trying to manipulate Canadian voters with their endless rhetoric. Funny, here we have three guys that bash Bush at any given opporunity for his imperialistic agenda trying to force their opinion on us poor saps up north. Here's the latest trash spewed by Moore in this mornings news.
