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how much does it cost to have a wing installed on my neon? by 84fierotrevor
Started on: 04-13-2002 07:49 PM
Replies: 251
Last post by: Raydar on 05-23-2002 04:45 PM
84fierotrevor
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Report this Post04-13-2002 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorSend a Private Message to 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post
got my neon back. I wanna install a wing on it a big ricey one yes i know you don't need to mention to me that it likes like rice.
i am the defention of rice and proud of it.
but how much would it costs to have them screw it on ur bondo it or whatever they do?
do they do both?
i already got the wing just need instalation.
what should i expect to pay?
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Report this Post04-13-2002 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMontrealSend a Private Message to FieroMontrealDirect Link to This Post
about $20 .. they will be drilling holes in your trunk! lol.. If you're good with a dril and have good bits, you might be able to do it yourself..

------------------
-Alex

1986 Fiero GT STOCK Wingless, 1987 Fiero SC Stock,1984 Fiero Indy (resto project), 85 SE (donor frame for Indy), 86 SE Body only
President of FieroMontreal... www.fieromontreal.com
and Regional Director of CFOG-I for Eastern Canada. www.cfog-I.org

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Report this Post04-13-2002 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Don_Chi_ChiClick Here to visit Don_Chi_Chi's HomePageSend a Private Message to Don_Chi_ChiDirect Link to This Post
Its not tough to do yourself, just line it up and drill. A little sealant in the hole to prevent rusting don't hurt. Other than that, yeah it may cost 20-70 bucks to get someone to do it. But at least it would be done right.

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Report this Post04-13-2002 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TagueuleDirect Link to This Post
Neon???!!! Get lost
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84fierotrevor
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Report this Post04-14-2002 04:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tagueule:
Neon???!!! Get lost

wanna race me ? ur in cali.
I got 100 bucks that says I will dust ANY car you own with that neon.
Let me know we can set up a place and time.

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Smoooooth GT
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Report this Post04-14-2002 04:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Smoooooth GTSend a Private Message to Smoooooth GTDirect Link to This Post
Liquid nail's.... $3.00
Playdoh(filler).. $4.00
Sender Block's... $10.00
Wing............. $200.00

A job you can be proud of.... Priceless!!!!

J/K
Chi Chi Has already given GREAT Instruction's that should hold it on there for the life of the car!!

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Report this Post04-14-2002 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
dont mold it on, just bolt it like most people do. Molding it on a metal truck lid, its guarranteed to crack, too much stress and dissimilar materials. usually just 4 bolts/nuts. MEASURE TWICE, DRILL ONCE.

what i do on stuff like that is measure the width of trunk seam to seam on both side and make a mark in the center. do it at front and back of lid, then run a strip of tape down the center. then measure the distance between the mounting holes, divide in half and measure that out from the center. put it as far back as you want and look at underside to see if you can access the bolts before you drill. there is some cross bracing on the back side you need to miss. You can get a spray can of matching paint, and it looks fine for that small an area to paint. After you sand it, make sure you get all your fingerprints off by wiping it with paper towell and rubbing alcohol so you dont get fisheyes (little holes/bubbles in paint) if its fiberglass make sure you put on first coat really lite and let it clear dry before next coat.


about the race thing, If it can beat mine, Ill even pay you for your gas coming here

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 04-14-2002).]

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84fierotrevor
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Report this Post04-14-2002 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorSend a Private Message to 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post
i don't thinkl i could waste ur corvette,
yet. but i can waste mustag gt's with out a problem.
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Don_Chi_Chi
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Report this Post04-14-2002 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Don_Chi_ChiClick Here to visit Don_Chi_Chi's HomePageSend a Private Message to Don_Chi_ChiDirect Link to This Post
I know the DOHC Neon's are pretty peppy. But unless you have mods on them, don't they top out somewhere in the neighborhood of 150HP? Is that really enough to shut down a Mustang GT unless he's a brutal driver?
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-14-2002 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fierotrevor:
i don't thinkl i could waste ur corvette,
yet. but i can waste mustag gt's with out a problem.

not the Corvette, I was talking my Fiero. The Vette barely gets out of its own way.

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grinthock
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Report this Post04-14-2002 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for grinthockClick Here to visit grinthock's HomePageSend a Private Message to grinthockDirect Link to This Post
I'll take you in my fiero...
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Report this Post04-14-2002 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 gt fieroSend a Private Message to 85 gt fieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fierotrevor:
i don't thinkl i could waste ur corvette,
yet. but i can waste mustag gt's with out a problem.

Not to flame or anything but on the free-way yesterday back from the meet i was playing around with a neon and smoked him several times in my 5.0, i dont like fords but i made an exception for this one.

Randy

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Report this Post04-14-2002 05:42 PM   Send a Private Message to 85 gt fieroDirect Link to This Post
and thats an 85 5.0.. not fast as I recall

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1988 Stage 2 Aero Coupe - 1985 Mustang 3.8 Convertable

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Report this Post04-14-2002 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Don_Chi_ChiClick Here to visit Don_Chi_Chi's HomePageSend a Private Message to Don_Chi_ChiDirect Link to This Post
If I remember, the '85 5.0's were 170HP give or take. But they still had torque like a SOB. They were still pretty quick. The 79 5.0's and the 82's were pretty pathetic though.

 
quote
Originally posted by White88cpe:
and thats an 85 5.0.. not fast as I recall

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Report this Post04-14-2002 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnnyKSend a Private Message to JohnnyKDirect Link to This Post
A guy I know had an 82 I think, but I think that had 190 hp stock.> i can't imagine an 85 only having 170.. Anyways, that would stick hand a Fiero it's ass.
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84fierotrevor
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Report this Post04-14-2002 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorSend a Private Message to 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post
I have the sohc 150 hp engine.
it has a aftermarket stage three turbo from it says hanecraft or sotming on it.
it was in the car when i bought it i got it used.
carbon fiber dash.
um lemme think what else it has.
Underdrive pully
its got iceman cold air intake.
k&n air filter loud ricey exsuast from magnaflow. oh its got a chip from somwewhere i dunno i was told it did cuss they wouldn't let me smog it with the chip in it. and I heard the neons top out at 117mph but ive gone 150 in it atleast cuss i gunned it at 3 am on the 405 with no one around and it kept going faster and faster even after the little tack stoped at just past 120.
I know its not that fast but it can dust alota the stuff i race.
but it is a gay as car cuss ive blown my engine already and the other time i did somthing i dunno what it was but it needed a new throttle body spark plugs a router distributer cap those little waires that connect to it and somthing else i dunno what it was called but it cost me 180 for it.
I don't care if people call me rice i like my rice.
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Report this Post04-14-2002 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Don_Chi_ChiClick Here to visit Don_Chi_Chi's HomePageSend a Private Message to Don_Chi_ChiDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnnyK:
A guy I know had an 82 I think, but I think that had 190 hp stock.> i can't imagine an 85 only having 170.. Anyways, that would stick hand a Fiero it's ass.

Seriously, the '79 mustang had something like 125 horse. Broght the 5.0 back in '82 with 140 or so. Upped it in 85 and incrementally after that. Didn't hit 190 HP till about '86. From about '86 on, I think it was 200-225HP. The thing with them, is they had torque that helped the paltry HP ratings.
84Trevor. I, along with probably some others on here didn't know your Neon was modded. A turbo certainly would even the odds though. But there's been alot of people around here that would say their stock Neon smoked something it just couldn't beat. Can help people for being a little apprehensive.

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Report this Post04-15-2002 02:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Smoooooth GTSend a Private Message to Smoooooth GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
The Vette barely gets out of its own way.

I just spit coffee allll over the room, It's still coming outta my nose.... That's one of the funniest thing's I have ever read on this forum... Thank's Roger!!!

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Report this Post04-15-2002 03:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Performance1Send a Private Message to Performance1Direct Link to This Post
See, thats the problem with the rice crowd. They know NOTHING about engines and performance. They buy the cars because it has more "bolt-on" sh!t than anything else. They dont know the intake from the exhaust. For example what 84fierotrevor said, My engine f*cked up-i dunno what it was, somethin else happened-i dunno what it was, this thing broke-i dunno what it was. I dunno this, i dunno that. They are not wise in the automotive field, yet they seem to know everything about there cars and be the fastest guy out there. As long as the part comes with instructions, they MIGHT be able to install it. They know very, very little yet they know all.
A buddy of mine just bought a civic, calls me and asks, whats this, whats that? He took off the cold-air intake tubing and now he thinks he has less restriction for more power! And hes always talkin about these bolt-ons, never talkin about internal mods, and thats where the magority of the hp comes from! I just shake my head every time

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HONDA SUCKS!!!

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-15-2002 08:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
glad to brighten your day smooth The L-98 may be fast in a Fiero, but the 1,000 pnd more vette is a dog. My Ferraro will run circles around it, handles lot better too. It does sound sweet though with muffler elimiators, has a real rumble. Just nothing to back it up. Does have great off the line torque though, I can spin tires for a long while

140 mph Neon? even with turbo, I dont think so except maybe on a 2 mile straight run downhill. They have their own Neon racing series, and those full race ones dont do that. I had a turbo ES600 K-car. It was pretty quick but no steam after 110 or so.

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Report this Post04-15-2002 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaDirect Link to This Post
according to
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/auto/neon/neon.htm

they dont make a turbo for your 2000+ neon yet.

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Report this Post04-15-2002 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for falconhulkSend a Private Message to falconhulkDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula:
according to
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/auto/neon/neon.htm

they dont make a turbo for your 2000+ neon yet.


Heh heh that company does not make/carry them. I assure you that they are available. BTW they dont have the worlds fastest neon either. Street driven 9's being the new record.

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Report this Post04-15-2002 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LogicdragonSend a Private Message to LogicdragonDirect Link to This Post
The 98 DOHC Neon puts out 150 hp. I have raced my friends many times in the quarter mile and I always win by about a half car length. With a GT's short first gear, the torque of a v-6 compared to his 4, and the good mid-engined traction, I smoke him off the line. He doesn't start gaining on me until about 50 mph. He has a Cold air intake, 60mm TB, Custom flywheel and clutch, and some other stuff. I have a MSD 6a, K&N and an underdrive pulley.

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Report this Post04-15-2002 11:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 gt fieroSend a Private Message to 85 gt fieroDirect Link to This Post
My 85 stang is pushing 300 +h.p., the engine was built by ND performace building. The car is extremely quick and can wrench the tires loose anytime i want, i am building another engine 5.0 that i want to push 400 hp, 13:1 compression, ss valves, eldebrock roller tips, crane cam and crang, ported, polished, balanced, blueprinted, eldrebrock intake and card, cps high point cutoffs, thats all i need

randy

[This message has been edited by 85 gt fiero (edited 04-19-2002).]

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84fierotrevor
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Report this Post04-15-2002 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorSend a Private Message to 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post
can anyone get me info on my turbo? i wanna know how much horsepower it adds and stuff all i know is what the dealership guy told me. and that it says hane on it
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84fierotrevor
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Report this Post04-15-2002 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorSend a Private Message to 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post

84fierotrevor

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Member since Oct 2001
 
quote
Originally posted by Performance1:
See, thats the problem with the rice crowd. They know NOTHING about engines and performance. They buy the cars because it has more "bolt-on" sh!t than anything else. They dont know the intake from the exhaust. For example what 84fierotrevor said, My engine f*cked up-i dunno what it was, somethin else happened-i dunno what it was, this thing broke-i dunno what it was. I dunno this, i dunno that. They are not wise in the automotive field, yet they seem to know everything about there cars and be the fastest guy out there. As long as the part comes with instructions, they MIGHT be able to install it. They know very, very little yet they know all.
A buddy of mine just bought a civic, calls me and asks, whats this, whats that? He took off the cold-air intake tubing and now he thinks he has less restriction for more power! And hes always talkin about these bolt-ons, never talkin about internal mods, and thats where the magority of the hp comes from! I just shake my head every time

ur right i know almost nothing about engines.
but what does that matter to me when im looking at ur headlights a mile back?
LOL ! Just cuss you want port and polish and whatever the hell ur eninge to make it faster and i want to pay someone to bolt a turbo to mine makes u a smarter better person?
you go ahead and waste ur time doing all ur little engine mods that will give it how much horspower?
while us "ricers" pay 300 bucks and double are horsepower at the push of a button!
while ur at home dreaming about that extra 8 hp ur gonna get from porting somthing or rather.
we will be out using are extra 100 hp we just got by pushing a little red........button.
don't dicrimantat man.
just because you like somthing a certin way doesn't mean the whole world shares ur opinion.
be open mineded and relize everyone has there own opinions we don't all agree on the same stuff and one isn't necciserly better then the other.
"ricers like to bolt on turbos and go race.
you like to get down and dirty with ur car and work on a project tahts fun and be proud of urself for a job well down. we all have are own stuff. so please don't be rude.

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84fierotrevor
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Report this Post04-15-2002 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorSend a Private Message to 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post

84fierotrevor

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Member since Oct 2001
bye the way have you ever been to the races and talked with any "ricers" or do u just laugh at there cars cuss they have stickers on it when u drive by one.
most of those people know a hell of a lot about cars. at least all the racves ive been to inthree diffrent states.
and no one acts like there the best and know it all. what are you making this **** up?
don't talk trash u know nothing about.
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Report this Post04-16-2002 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for loafer87gtSend a Private Message to loafer87gtDirect Link to This Post
Did you buy another Neon? I found this back from last Month and you stated that your Neon was stock with no mods.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/006452.html

I can't help but call BS on your listed mods, unless you did some major modifications after buying the car. As others have pointed out, the company you mentioned does not make a turbo for your car. Sounds a bit too much like the twin turbo northstar story from last year.

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Report this Post04-16-2002 01:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnnyKSend a Private Message to JohnnyKDirect Link to This Post
Performance: It depends.. There are a lot of bolt on mods that are going to make a huge difference. No, a K&N air filter is not going to make a huge difference, but new heads might. Same with internal mods.. Some will, some don't.
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Report this Post04-16-2002 01:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85GTPSend a Private Message to 85GTPDirect Link to This Post
It’s so funny to see how you have changed your tone. Since just a month ago you were praising the reliability of Neons and now you have all these problems. Very funny
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Report this Post04-16-2002 01:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PontiaddictSend a Private Message to PontiaddictDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fierotrevor:
ur right i know almost nothing about engines.
but what does that matter to me when im looking at ur headlights a mile back?
LOL ! Just cuss you want port and polish and whatever the hell ur eninge to make it faster and i want to pay someone to bolt a turbo to mine makes u a smarter better person?

Yes
 
quote

you go ahead and waste ur time doing all ur little engine mods that will give it how much horspower?
while us "ricers" pay 300 bucks and double are horsepower at the push of a button!
while ur at home dreaming about that extra 8 hp ur gonna get from porting somthing or rather.
we will be out using are extra 100 hp we just got by pushing a little red........button.

The point is that all the porting and polishing shows even greater gains after you stick a power adder on it. Instead of doubling the hp, they might be able to get a 150% increase instead.
I'd rather flip a switch and gain the hp whenever I push the accelerator down all the way, instead of pushing a button, possibly at the wrong time and blowing something up.
 
quote
don't dicrimantat man.
just because you like somthing a certin way doesn't mean the whole world shares ur opinion.
be open mineded and relize everyone has there own opinions we don't all agree on the same stuff and one isn't necciserly better then the other.

And in some cases it is. Not the origin of the machinery, but the mentality of the people working on it.
 
quote
"ricers like to bolt on turbos and go race.
you like to get down and dirty with ur car and work on a project tahts fun and be proud of urself for a job well down. we all have are own stuff. so please don't be rude.

The point is that if you take the time to learn about what stuff does, you can be more effective when you buy/build/modify it. And usually save a some cash while you're at it.
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84fierotrevor
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Report this Post04-16-2002 02:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorSend a Private Message to 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by loafer87gt:
Did you buy another Neon? I found this back from last Month and you stated that your Neon was stock with no mods.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/006452.html

I can't help but call BS on your listed mods, unless you did some major modifications after buying the car. As others have pointed out, the company you mentioned does not make a turbo for your car. Sounds a bit too much like the twin turbo northstar story from last year.

Nope. same neon. I added all the mods Minus the turbo and If you look up the sweet my neon has a aftermarket turbo!! thread you will see that I had no idea about it tell I took it back to dodge after somthing exploded under my hood. lol.
you want me to get you pictures of my engine set up? I will try and post them.
as for the air filter and underdrive pully and such i added.

as for the praising reliabilty of it i never did thati just wanted a ligitmat reson why some poeple condemed my neon. but i also found out that my turbo is whats causing my engine problems the place said don't expect my engine to last much more then two years without somthing "exploding again"
but can't i always have my turbo taken off? if i want reliabilty. i'll take it off but its worth the speed to me.
as for the port and polish 150% crap if its so suscful the "ricers" would be doing it.
no matter what anyone says NOS is dollar 4 Dollar the best mod you cvan buy for the most hp. and like i said before not everyone has time to port and polish and f it was so great for so cheap the "ricers" would be doing it already.
im not gonna sit and argue with you if u wanna hate cars becuase they arnt american like alot of people do or u wanna bag on someone for some stupid reson about having NOS or stickers or whatever then go for it.
anyways I will get pics of my eninge tommorw and post them.
as for hane not making a turbo for my neon i dun't even know what hane is or does I don't know anything bout my turbo i found out a little while ago i even had it.
if they don't make it for my car then why is it on there? is it modded to fit or somthing or what? is that why my eninge will only last for like two years at a time without it blowing cuss its a turbo that aint supposed to be on there? cuss i don't see the turbo mitshubishi engines being blown with there turbo's and according to the dealership and quite a few other people i talked to my motor is the same as the eclipse.

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Report this Post04-16-2002 03:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Smoooooth GTSend a Private Message to Smoooooth GTDirect Link to This Post
Stop ALL the B^LLSHIT Trevor ........
POST PICTURE'S and put an END to this "Fairy-Tale Neon"..... Put up OR SHUT UP!!!!


<EDITED> I just re-read your last post and saw where you said you would post pic's tomorrow... my bad!!
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[This message has been edited by Smoooooth GT (edited 04-16-2002).]

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-16-2002 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
mmmmmmm still no pics. Maybe hes out scouring the city to try and find a tricked out Neon to take the photos, lol.
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Formula
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Report this Post04-16-2002 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaDirect Link to This Post
its hard to find a pic for a y2k neon with a turbo on the net, because there are very few at the moment. after hahns racecraft makes a setup for them they will be everywhere but till then they are a rare bird.

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Formula
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Report this Post04-16-2002 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaDirect Link to This Post

Formula

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http://howell.mountain.net/Neon/BlueRibbonTurbo.html

your neon has a sohc motor in it and its probably a 135 hp model unless you got an r/t or an acr. a mitsubishi eclipse had a 2.0 liter dohc 4 cyl that is found in the pre-99 neons, and thats not the turbo motor in the eclipses. the turbo motor is the 4g63 and was never put into a neon from the factory.

if you do in fact have a turbo on your y2k neon, and the engine was built to proper specs for a turbo motor then it should last longer then 2 years (unless driven hard). and most ricers who make big hp do port and polish!

[This message has been edited by Formula (edited 04-16-2002).]

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Smoooooth GT
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Report this Post04-16-2002 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Smoooooth GTSend a Private Message to Smoooooth GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
mmmmmmm still no pics. Maybe hes out scouring the city to try and find a tricked out Neon to take the photos, lol.

Oh Roger... It might be DAY's before we get picture's...


Ohhh Treeevor.... Wheeeeere arrrrre yooooooou??????
Maybe he had to go to the closest city to him...?? Surely somewhere in California there's a tricked out Neon...

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AgaricX
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Report this Post04-16-2002 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AgaricXClick Here to visit AgaricX's HomePageSend a Private Message to AgaricXDirect Link to This Post
I agree - Post up or shut up.

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falconhulk
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Report this Post04-16-2002 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for falconhulkSend a Private Message to falconhulkDirect Link to This Post
"your neon has a sohc motor in it and its probably a 135 hp model unless you got an r/t or an acr. a mitsubishi eclipse had a 2.0 liter dohc 4 cyl that is found in the pre-99 neons, and thats not the turbo motor in the eclipses. the turbo motor is the 4g63 and was never put into a neon from the factory. "

Actually thats a common mistake. Chrysler did not use the Mitsu 2.0 in thier cars. Mitsu used an engine based on the Chrysler (not the other way around) but with diffrent heads and virtually everything else. Although it had the same roots they ended up being totally diffrent powerplants.

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Pontiaddict
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Report this Post04-17-2002 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PontiaddictSend a Private Message to PontiaddictDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fierotrevor:
as for the port and polish 150% crap if its so suscful the "ricers" would be doing it.

Porting and polishing, and any other blueprint work does make a difference if done right. Ricers don't do it because it takes knowledge of the engine to do the work. You don't think that 500hp 4 cyls are built by just throwing parts on it, do you?
 
quote
no matter what anyone says NOS is dollar 4 Dollar the best mod you cvan buy for the most hp. and like i said before not everyone has time to port and polish and f it was so great for so cheap the "ricers" would be doing it already.

First off, dollar for dollar, Nitrous is the best mod per dollar. And that would only be for the short term, becuause eventually you're going to spend more money refilling the bottle than the other mods would have cost. Not only that but if done right you can throw Nitrous on a supercharged or turbochrged or 'built n/a motor and get more hp on top of those mods.
NOS (the blue bottle brand, not nitrous in general) is primarily used in real drag racing because they have a good contingency program. If they paid me to use their parts on my car, I'd probably use them too.
Ricers don't do mods for the best bang for the buck. They do mods that they can bench race with and think that they are cool for doing. If they did mods that were more worthwhile than just throwing parts at a motor, they wouldn't be ricers they'd be tuners1.
Doing the extra work to the motor doesn't take all that much more time than actually rebuilding a motor. But ricers don't know anything about rebuilding a motor because they don't bother learning anything about cars. Just that "NOS makes it go fast." or "I'll just throw a turbo on my Civic and and do 200mph"

1(Not toonerz or anything that replaces the s with a z or the r with a R)

I'll be amazed if this reply is coded right

[This message has been edited by Pontiaddict (edited 04-17-2002).]

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