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Israel Getting Tired of Attacks by rogergarrison
Started on: 01-25-2002 03:56 PM
Replies: 47
Last post by: Adrift on 01-31-2002 02:06 PM
ray b
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Report this Post01-31-2002 02:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bDirect Link to This Post
I grew up in a partly jewish area 30% or so of kids in class were jewish.

you said"I hate to say this but the above statement shows your misunderstanding of the situation, as over 90% of the world misunderstands it. There is a BIG difference between Israeli Arabs and Palestiens. I have met many different who are Israeli Arabs, and hate the Palestienans and what they stand for. "

SAME PEOPLE some stayed some ran purely a BS political LABLE one brother is a palestien one is a Israeli arab luck being main fact of who is who
but both are treated very different from each other and even more differenetly than a new JEWISH settler born thousans of miles away.
YOU allso assume all palisteians are in the PLO and the nuts in hamas are working and reporting to the FAT one arenot they as divided as reform jews to hasisidum with most in the middle???
then you say"Israelis are very good at many things, but they suck at one very important one. Public relations"
you got to be kidding THEY get 5 billion or more IN MY TAX CASH EVERY YEAR PLUSS how many boatloads of $$$$$$$$$ hiteck toys for the army and airforce NOW as in every year
HATE TO SEE THE BILL IF PR WORKED!!!!
A PLACE WERE JEWS ARE SAFE SURE A JEWISH/ZIONEST STATE PAID FOR BY MY TAX $$$$$ NO THANKS

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dennis_6
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Report this Post01-31-2002 03:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
I found this interesting.
Ray B is going to have a field day. lol http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?s=47b07b2938482f2c30e7589eefc2dda5&threadid=7273
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Ken Wittlief
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Report this Post01-31-2002 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ken WittliefSend a Private Message to Ken WittliefDirect Link to This Post
maybe the reason the arab nations call Israel 'expansionists' is because they can read the old testiment for themselves.

If you look at the description of the land God 'gave' to Abraham, it extends way beyond Israels current borders.

Since Israels primary claim to the land is based on this account, they can easily stand up one day and demand the rest of it.

The arabs know this.

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Adrift
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Report this Post01-31-2002 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AdriftClick Here to visit Adrift's HomePageSend a Private Message to AdriftDirect Link to This Post
Ray, maybe you better reread my message, because you agree with me in your "response" on a few things, for example not all palestianas being parts of terrorist groups. (That was one of my points).

And it terms of Israel getting money, you'd have to be an idiot not to realize the need for Israel which America has. Israel is the only democratic nation in the whole middle east. How is the U.S. gona wage a war on Iraq/Iran if they have no where to store there troupes? if they have no way to spy on them? If they have to fly a few hours each day just to get to their enemy? The U.S. Dosen't really give a fuc*k about Israel people or the struggle which is going on. All they care about are two things 1) Getting Oil from Arab countries 2) Securing a position in the middle east. This is obvious to any properly informed person, and can be seen through the U.S. Actions over the last 60 years. Its not unusual for the U.S. to give weapons and support to people they don't care about/done agree with. Just look at all those american weapons from the 80's CNN filmed in Osama Ben Laden's numerous hide outs.

The issue of America's relationship with Israel is very complicated and historic, and like I said before, I suggest anyone whos interested in hidden motives of the U.S. government should read the book "The secret war..." Its just one of many books written about a governments Private purpose versus there public purpose, the only reason I quote it because historical archives totally unrelated to events back up most of the claims spoken of in the book. It also shows within the first few chapters fairly quickly that what-you-see, in politics, is next to never-what-you-get.

People can stick their heads in the sand as long as they want, their just helping to make the world a more secretive, unsafe place.

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Adrift
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Report this Post01-31-2002 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AdriftClick Here to visit Adrift's HomePageSend a Private Message to AdriftDirect Link to This Post
Ken, In response to your comment:
This comment is not true. If you read Palestian and other secular sources (CNN.COM, and whatnot) They very rarely quote the actual hebrew from the tanach (old testament), which just plainy DOES NOT STATE ANYTHING CLEARLY.

One thing you all have to begin to understand is that the Tanach is not cut and dry. Even the most religous Jews do not take it literally. A good example of this is that most religous Jews don't eat milk and meat together. Does it say this in the Tanach? No, the exact translation from hebrew says don't kill a calf in the milk of its mother.

The main problem with the definition of Israel's borders in the Tanach is that more then one definition is given. To make matters worse, many of the translations use locations which haven't existed for over two thousand years!

So what do the Palestians do? They decide to make it their business to announce to the media (Ken: How did you hear about it?) that THEY know where the locations are and the Isareli's are expansionist and they are helpless. 95% of Jewish Leaders wouldn't claim to know where ancient Israel's true borders lie. They could give you a rough description, but no more. More info at: http://www.tanach.org/bamidbar/matot/matots1.htm (Unlike Pro-Palestian sources other people have been posting, the purpose of this link is not only to denounce Palestian claims - If you ressearch more you'll see these are discussion which are over 600 years old, and are written about in the Gemara, a book of commentaries on the old testament).

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Here's the synopsys from Amazon.Com for that book BTW:
A hugely controversial work, The Secret War Against the Jews uses thousands of previously top-secret documents and interviews with hundreds of current and former spies to present a compelling narrative claiming that many Western countries--who profess to be allies--have willfully spied on Israel over many decades in order to obtain oil from Arab countries.

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Ken Wittlief
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Report this Post01-31-2002 12:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ken WittliefSend a Private Message to Ken WittliefDirect Link to This Post
what in the world are you talking about?!

The US never based any planes or troops in Israel for any reason. remember something called the Gulf war? Where were US troops stationed?!

We flew B2 bombers from the middle of the US to bomb Afganistan, and we stationed carries in the Persian Gulf.

To say we need Israel as a military base is not based on anything to do with reality.

If the US supports Israel maybe its because a large percent of their citizens came from the US during the last 50 years, they have family and business ties here-

and the simple fact that the US is in agreement with the idea of a free and open democracy, anywhere - and we put our money where out mouth is to help governments that share our ideas and way of life.

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ray b
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Report this Post01-31-2002 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bDirect Link to This Post
I can't belive that the holylands were totaly uninhabited like some are trying to claim WHAT PURE BS!!!!
much like claim israel is our allly so thats why they spy on USA[john pollard is in jail for spying] and shoot up our CIA/NSA ship in past war[ liberty]????
Israel is a democracy ONLY IF YOUR A JEW much like southern USA pre civil rights.
NO record in history of claimed jewish kingdom of david or real borders of a mythical land of jews.EGYPTIANS CLAIM to RULE in holyland from most of period of jewish kings but are never in bible as rulers of land of abraham AT ALL!!!!!????
SOME SCHOLARS think BIBLE was written about 300 bce or way after Alex the great so PREDICKIONS are after events NOT BEFORE!!!!
EVER NOTICE no egyptian king is named so we can date rule and events but later other kings are named WHY???? maybe because when written in 300 bce no-one knew, remembered their names of long ago kings of egypt?????

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Adrift
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Report this Post01-31-2002 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AdriftClick Here to visit Adrift's HomePageSend a Private Message to AdriftDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief:
what in the world are you talking about?!

The US never based any planes or troops in Israel for any reason. remember something called the Gulf war? Where were US troops stationed?!

We flew B2 bombers from the middle of the US to bomb Afganistan, and we stationed carries in the Persian Gulf.

To say we need Israel as a military base is not based on anything to do with reality.

If the US supports Israel maybe its because a large percent of their citizens came from the US during the last 50 years, they have family and business ties here-

and the simple fact that the US is in agreement with the idea of a free and open democracy, anywhere - and we put our money where out mouth is to help governments that share our ideas and way of life.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1762000/1762234.stm Speaks of a US Base in Pakistan used to in the war against Afganastan.

The Us troops were staioned in the water during the Gulf war. And as was demonstrated about a year ago by the yemen bombing, that's really not the best way to go about doing things. Aside from that, Israel was also very involved in the gulf war, although many people may refuse to acknowedlge that (Many of the same people people who feel that Pearl Harbour and "Black Hawk down" are exact representations of the events that occured ).
1) By warning that it would take military measures if any Iraqi troops enter Jordan, Israel, in effect, created a "buffer zone" for the Americans.

2) Israel offered the United States the use of military and hospital facilities. U.S. ships utilized Haifa port shipyard maintenance and support on their way to the gulf.
3) Even in its low-profile mode, Israeli cooperation was extremely valuable: Israel's military intelligence has focused on Iraq much more carefully over the years than has the U.S. intelligence community. Thus, the Israelis were able to provide Washington with detailed tactical intelligence on Iraqi military activities. Defense Secretary Cheney said, for example that the U.S. utilized Israeli information about western Iraq in its search for Scud missile launchers.

During a visit to Israel May 30, 1991, Defense Secretary Cheney said: "We think that the cooperation that we were able to engage in during the war in the Gulf...emphasizes how important the [U.S.-Israel] relationship is and how well it works when put to the test."

Aside from that, Much Israeli equipment was used during the war.
- mine plows that were used to clear paths for allied forces through Iraqi mine fields., Mobile bridges provided by Israel were employed by the U.S. Marine Corps, Night-vision goggles used by U.S. forces were supplied by Israel, etc, etc...

The US knows its good to have a friend close to your enemy. If I remember my history corectly (I may not :P )wasn't that the reason Alaska was purchased?

[This message has been edited by Adrift (edited 01-31-2002).]

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