ray b asked:

quote I fail to get it HOW can a tv locked at 500 lines interlaced at a low screen refreach rate be better than computer screen at 2000 lines noninterlaced at a much high refreach rate and many more franes per second not be better?? 2000 is better than 500.

Because I would rather play video games on a 35" TV while sitting comfortably on my couch instead of sitting propped up in an office chair staring intently into a 19" monitor from 12" away.

Refresh rates don't interest me as far as gaming goes. Comfort, enjoyability and gameplay concern me. But then, that's just my own personal opinion.

I read the article throughly.
They are assuming alot of things and know somethings. Surprise the Gamecube has more overall system bandwidth than the XBOX!

If you read the article that I posted about opening the Cube, the Flipper is running at 202.5 Mhz, another surprise. I'm sure the dev kits stated 165Mhz and that's everybody's target for coding but remember Nintendo knows video game machines.

remember the SNES how the graphics chip came on the cartridge that way down the road the newer games got alot better looking: Star Fox, Donkey Kong Country, etc...
remember how newer N64 games ran in double the resolution over the older ones...?

This is an old trick that alows hardware to stay competetive over a loger period of time.

Even back in the c64 days compare the early games pre 81-86 to anything released from 88 and up... the hardware didn't change.

that's why ATI is secretive, that's why Nintendo is secretive. Don't forget, the Flipper has it's own ram and they don't know exactly how much. The chip is huge compare d to the PowerPC chip. so 64 megs on the XBOX has to be shared with the CPU and sound and a stripped down but still bloated OS so available ram is alot less for actual game code. the ATI chip can move memory to main ram and back very quickly which is what I alluded to in a previous post.

The Cube is a dedicated game machine, the XBOx is a high-tech computer MB with a slow pentium and a MS OS.

It's great that the XBOX will be able to display HDTV (but the article said it will then have to give up some rendering) but does anyone need/have HDTV now or in the next 3 years? And in 3 years the PS3 will be out and maybe even the successor to the cube so who cares.

The cube has a superior cpu, better access to memory and a mysterious GPU. It is a single minded monster. MS has put all their cards on the table to claim superiority, Nintendo hasn't played all it's cards yet and judging by sales, it doesn't have to yet.

The chip you are refering to was called "System 7" and was possible becasue cart games are HARDWARE. As we all know you cant add hardware with mini dvd's. The Nintendos GPU is reprogramable though. So is Microsofts. I am not knocking the cube by any means. All I am saying is that the xbox is superior in raw power. I bought it becasue of the ability to play multiplayer sports games as well as PC like FPS and RPG. As I see it its all the advantages of a console with the added PC developer community behind it. Why hate MS? They are successful. Dont hate them for that. It seems that in this country its popular to hate big successfuol companies. its popular to hat the CEO. Hes evil right? Fight the power should have gone out in the 70's.

Just got yhe Xbox today. Geez, they're kind of tough to find. Now I have to wait until Christmas to open it and play it, dammit. Hopefully I can get MX 2002 before Christmas, too.

Face it, the GameCube is a kiddy system. Most of the games either suck or are aimed at little kids. I'll keep the N64 for the younger ones. It doesn't seem to matter to a 6 year old if Mario is on a SNES, N64, or GC.

Even Nintendo is already backing away from the GC, saying it doesn't matter whether or not they meet their sales goals or even if the system is a success. They own the handheld gaming market, that's their real moneymaker, and that's where thier primary focus is going to be.

Nintendo is not backing away from it. It is still selling a lot more than the xbox. And it's not all kids games. All resident Evils are now exclusively for the gamecube.

Microsoft's effect on the tech industry is a double-edged sword. It's driven alot of development but it's kill alot of innovative companies. I support nothing they do.

I have a gamcube for sale or trade if anyone want's one ?
I will trade for a laptop of 300 mghz or better.
anyone interested ? PM me.

quote Originally posted by baptistheart: I've got a ps2 and the playback looks good to me.

ditto

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Nintendo is not backing away from it. It is still selling a lot more than the xbox. And it's not all kids games. All resident Evils are now exclusively for the gamecube.

Sorry, but when a company starts publicly saying that they aren't meeting their targets and that the failure to do so really doesn't matter anyway, that's corporate-speak for backing away.

You too may someday learn these things after departing from school.

ALL resident evils are not exclusively for the Game Cube. This is a play on words the same as Resident Evil: Code Veronica was an exclusice for the DC. The GC versions will contain a feature that will make it unique. Thats how they get away with saying its exclusive. Resident evil will appear on the xbox and PS2 in some form in the future as well as the GC.

Nice to see Nintendo targetting adults...

Heh heh RE is adult to you Lou? Seems kiddy to me.

If you go to Gamespy they're current headlines state that the X-Box has broken all sales figures:
"Xbox Sales Rippin' it Up - Mike Weber
The Xbox video game system from Microsoft had the best-selling video game console launch on record after two weeks of sales, according to The NPD Group Inc., the definitive source for sales and market data on the video game industry."

"The data clearly show that Xbox is off to a torrid start," said Robbie Bach, chief Xbox officer at Microsoft. "Xbox sold out as soon as we launched, and we're selling systems as fast as we can produce them. More than 100,000 units a week are being delivered to retailers, so game players are likely to find Xbox systems throughout the holiday season. With one of the best launch lineups ever, I understand why Xbox is the most sought-after gift for the holiday."

"Most importantly, Xbox purchasers can't get enough of the Xbox launch games. According to The NPD Group, gamers are buying 2.4 Xbox games with every Xbox, resulting in the highest game attach rate ever recorded for a console at launch. Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. sold 1.9 games with every PlayStation 2 during the first two weeks of its launch last year, and Nintendo Company Ltd. has sold 1.9 games with every GameCube to date."

"Microsoft's Halo was the best-selling launch title according to actual NPD data, beating Luigi's Mansion, the top-selling GameCube game. Halo, the critically acclaimed sci-fi action game, also recently received a 10 out of 10 rating from the editors at Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine. Sales are also very strong for Microsoft's Project Gotham Racing, NFL Fever 2002, and third-party games such as Dead or Alive 3 from Tecmo, Madden NFL 2002 from Electronic Arts and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x from Activision."
Taken from Gamespy update.
Facts are a ***** ,but they speak for themselves

------------------
85 GT Turbo intercooled

Why do some of you guys get off by saying the Cube sucks? Kiddy games?? Just because it doesn't have blood and gore and violence doesn't mean it's not a fun game. I could care less if it has that sh!t. It's the fun factor that matters, not the rating on the game. We just got a Gamecube a couple days ago and I love it. We bought Dave Mirra Pro BMX 2, SSX Tricky, and Super Smash Bros. Melee (which is my favorite game so far). There were a few reasons we picked the Cube over the other 2 competitors. First, it's $100 cheaper. Second, I like the controller much better than the Xbox. However, I do like the PS2 controller. Third, I was wanting to get S.S.B. Melee, which is an exclusive to the Cube. Fourth, I have two friends with a PS2 with most of the awesome games out for it, so if I want to play it I'll just go there.

Just get what you want for your own reasons. I wouldn't mind having the PS2. And if I got use to the controller on the Xbox, it probably wouldn't be too bad. But hey, I saved $100 just from the console. That's 2 more games.

------------------
-Adam
sqoach@yahoo.com

86 SE V6 - daily driver

86 Sport Coupe 2.5L 5spd (soon to be sold)

The cube does not suck. I think this thread took off in response to posts about the xbox "sucking".

compared to Luigi's Mansion, I'd say it's adult. Nintendo has stayed away from blood and gore in the past.

Nintendo's first week :
REDMOND, Wash., Nov. 28, 2001 - Ignoring strong economic headwinds, NINTENDO GAMECUBE has soared to record retail heights, becoming the fastest-selling home video game console of this generation. Through its first week of availability, NINTENDO GAMECUBE sold more than one-half million systems to consumers, at a rate nearly twice that of Microsoft's Xbox, and at least 25 percent faster than the launch of Sony's Playstation 2 last year.

and

REDMOND, Wash., Dec. 3, 2001 - Nintendo of America reported today that, based on direct communications with its retailers, its new NINTENDO GAMECUBE home video game console has reached sales of nearly 600,000 units in America in 15 days, or an average of 27 per minute--nonstop--since its November 18th introduction.

"Both in terms of total units sold to date and even more so in the comparative number of units we're selling per day, NINTENDO GAMECUBE's advantages in game quality and affordability are being amply demonstrated in stores across America," says Peter Main, executive vice president sales and marketing, Nintendo of America. "In short, although launching at retail three days following the Microsoft X-box, it seems apparent that we have sold through to consumers more game consoles than they have even been able to deliver to retail outlets."

Because Microsoft has declined to estimate its actual consumer sales numbers, no fully accurate picture of comparative market activity is yet available. That data won't be available until The NPD Group releases its full projected sales report for the month of November in the next few weeks. For example, NPD's sample does not reflect system sales at Wal-Mart, the nation's largest retailer, and also the largest retail outlet for NINTENDO GAMECUBE.

Resident Evil is kiddy eh? So what is an adult game, you big tough guy, you?

Using the SD-Memory Card Adapter, you can access the 64 Mb of memory available in Matsushita's SD-Memory Card. Look for these Nintendo GameCube accessories to be released soon!

here's a measure of the Cube'c CPU power:
CPU Capacity 1125 Dmips (Dhrystone 2.1)

Yeah, well unfortunately there are several incredible design flaws in the X-BOX. Their quality control is poor at best and the thing has a habit of locking up. In fact out of ALL of the electronics stores within a 30 minute drive of my place, only 1 out of 12 actually has an X-box that will run for more than an hour without shutting down or locking up.

Microsoft says they set them up wrong.

Too bad is was MICROSOFT employees who set up all of the displays.

Must be a southern thing. I haven't seen or even heard of such problems around here. But then again, I practically live in Microsoft's back yard. If only I had bought their stock 20 years ago.......

quote Originally posted by BN Boomer: Must be a southern thing. I haven't seen or even heard of such problems around here.

Actually Raleigh happens to be part of a LARGE collection of major corporations. It's normally referred to as RTP or Research Triangle Park.

And as for the X-Box... I first learned about their box's problems from a magazine based in New York, and then from one out of Los Angeles.

In fact one of the articles sited a poll done by Toys R Us stating that out of all of the display models in all of their stores nation wide, 2 out of every 10 Stores had problems from day one.

I will post the article if necessary.

PS. I take no offence by the "Southern" crack because I'm not from here... but making generalizations about locations that you have no knowledge about, not only shows very bad form, but shows a lack of education as well.

But you probably didn't mean it... So I'll forget it.

[This message has been edited by Pyric (edited 12-07-2001).]

I'm glad you were able to glean the humor from my remark.

Your making assumptions about my knowledge of the South isn't exactly good form, either, and possibly shows a lack of, well, you know the drill.....

But you probably didn't mean it... So I'll forget it.

None of which has any bearing on my not yet seeing or hearing of the problems you speak of. I'll tell you what, though, I've already sunk $400 into an X-Box and after Christmas I'll let you know how it works. Everyone that I have talked to who actually HAS one and used it has had nothing but positive remarks to say about it.

It was a safe assumption based on your comment. But I was just making a point. Nothing personal.

Here is one such article as mentioned above... incase you are interested.
http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20011025S0018

[This message has been edited by Pyric (edited 12-07-2001).]

I don't know why everybody it so suprised that a windows based system requires constant reboots...

If you want to play games by a games machine not a computer disguised as a games machine. It's call tight intergration this is what allows games machines to play great even though on paper they don't compare to modest computer setup.

Just becuase you can code for a fixed hardware set in a computer doesn't change the fact that the underlying OS is a POS.

Opinions are like A$$holes;everybody has one,and they stink.

------------------
85 GT Turbo intercooled

Yeah but some don't smell as bad as others.

Baada-Baahp...cheesy drumroll.
That being said,can you move away...you smell like sh1t?
------------------
85 GT Turbo intercooled

[This message has been edited by Mr.Frosty (edited 12-07-2001).]

And tell me what makes me smell like that?
Where did I say one thing that you will need a shovel to move?

Remember a computer's power is not the sum of it's parts and they can't all work at the same time. A real game machine has multiple buses so that it CAN do more things at once and usually each part runs it's own process.

What's the faster car given the same weight?
an auto or a 5 speed with a 115 cu engine? I guess it depends on the driver, right?

Well if one of your drivers is called Windows, I'll take the other one who's smaller and more efficient.

Just a precaution... the Xbox also has a computer hard drive in it. Meaning, if you bump it wrong, you can crash it for good.

------------------

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance."
--Sam Brown

All I wanna ask is... Are you still gonna get the "blue screen of death" on the Xbox?

Why would you not make the smart choice and purchase a backwards compatible, true 128bit processor video game system with ergonomically correct controllers from the world's most succesful video game manufacturer?

Is there any wonder why Sony is the SECOND largest consumer electronics manufacturer?

------------------
Silver 86 GT
completely stock,
completely fast!

actually this time around it's the green screen of death...

quote Originally posted by BN Boomer: I'll tell you what, though, I've already sunk $400 into an X-Box and after Christmas I'll let you know how it works. Everyone that I have talked to who actually HAS one and used it has had nothing but positive remarks to say about it.

As promised, here's my after-Christmas review:

So far in comparing the Xbox to my nephew's PS2, it's obvious that the Xbox is the better machine. The only game we can thus far directly compare between the two is MX 2002 with Ricky Carmichael. We have both observed that it runs noticably faster and it is much easier to do tricks on the Xbox. We both feel that the Xbox controllers are better. And contrary to some above statements, the Xbox does not crash if bumped or jostled and has yet to lock up with a blue or green "screen of death". It is totally stable and has run flawlessly for hours at a time. The PS2, on the otherhand, actually HAS locked up, needing to be switched off and back on to clear whatever it choked on.

I am very happy that I chose the Xbox over the PS2 (which I originally wanted) as after having directly compared the two, it is obvious to me that the Xbox is the better machine and the current wave of the future.

Had the xbox since launch. No problems at all. As a matter of fact it is the one system that I have seen able to draw in people that always thought game systems were for kids. My dad is 60 and my mom is 53, both were amazed and fixated when I demonstrated it for my brother at thier house. Now when I was a kid they would never let me hook up a console in the living room. I have played game cube many times at a friends house. I just cant make myself get into it like the xbox. Its just a personal preference. Even he prefers the xbox and he has purchased every released game. At this point the only game he can stand to play anymor is SSX Trickey which looks exactly the same on PS2 and Xbox. When the Xbox starts getting more games made directly for its power instead of ports it will blow you away. First person shooters have never played so well on any other console.

Honestly, I cannot see why you guys choose an XBox over a PS2. As of right now, the PS2 just has so many more quality games in my opinion. The xbox is more powerful, but its the games that count. There are some good games, but there isn't any game on Xbox that can compete with Metal Gear2, Silent Hill2, and Grand theft auto. And game cube, don't even make me laugh. It is powerful too, but the games are more for kiddies! Well thats fine and all if you're gettin it for kids, it cant touch a PS2. Maybe when more games come out, but as of right now, I don't think so.

quote Originally posted by kneebarx: Honestly, I cannot see why you guys choose an XBox over a PS2. The xbox is more powerful, but its the games that count.

As I said, the more powerful Xbox runs similar games both faster and smoother.

quote As of right now, the PS2 just has so many more quality games in my opinion. There are some good games, but there isn't any game on Xbox that can compete with Metal Gear2, Silent Hill2, and Grand theft auto.

How many "cool" games did PlayStation 1 or 2 have when they first came out? And since the Xbox is alreay starting out way ahead of where either PlayStation platform did and the Xbox is easier to create games for, I predict that a literal plethora of new and ported over games for it will appear shortly.

hey, the Sega Saturn was more pwerful than the PS1 and we know who won that battle.
It's the games that count.

I don't like the fact that everybody still thinks the Cube is for kids... Does the box say "Ages 13 and below" on it or something? Nintendo may make "cute" games, but other developers aren't holding back their content.

Resident Evil, NHL Hitz, the Batman game. many others...

HALO is the reason people are buying the XBOX. Before Microsoft bought the developmemnt team of HALO, they were going to release a MAC version and PC version as well, now we are stuck with an XBOX only game... Why? Because MS is flexing it's mu$cle$ again. It's not because the XBOX is the only system that can handle such a game.

this is what you are going to see MS try to do again and again. Small game companies will buy into this because MS can give them a good licensing deal to remain exclusive and make them a profit, but the big boys (EA, Sega, Atari, etc...) will not sign exclusive deals because they know that they can make more money releasing titles for ALL systems and have the marketing power to do it.

Lou, your bias against MS is rediculas. The system is great already. Honestly I have had all systems except for the PS2. The reason i did not buy that is that I rented it the day it came out from Blockbuster and really had no fun playing it. The only problem with the xbox is the PS2 ports. SSX trickey is a prime example. The snowdream course only has snow falling when you are in Show off mode and are the only one on the track. This is the case on the Cube and Xbox. This is not a technical limitation of these systems but the less powerful PS2. There is also noticeable enviorment draw on the mountains. If this game was not a port to these systems it would have taken longer but it would have been amazing. I dont like the way if you pop open the cube the current game stays on the screen and it does not cut to a menu. I dont like it that you have to poer it down to change games. I like everything about the xbox. It just feels good and is fun to play. I now have 10 games for it and out of those, 8 are truly great. I cant wait for more games.

yeah, I'm biased, but I admitted that from the beginning.

Alot of your complaints are really below minor. Do your PC games automatically end when you open the CDROM? Maybe if it was actually accessing the drive at the time but otherwise no, right? Hence the RESET button.

I'm not denying it's power...but the controllers do suck worse than the Dreamcast even.

I just don't like the comments that the CUBE is for kids. That's flat out ridiculous.

Lou I love the controller. Its the best I ever used.

The only game I wanted for the xbox was amped it is the only one that stoked me with it's originality.
But I went PS2 for many reasons. The biggest one being Final Fantasy. Or squaresoft in general. And if you are a top down RPG fan, like me. Then expect a lot more ports to cube and xbox. Oh and don't ever expect to play a squaresoft or poly digital title in the near or even late future cause it ain't going to happen.
Yes the graphics are pretty but I have small hands and I can't easily use that xbox controller.
Nothing will ever come close to FF in the rpg department, or to GT3 in the racing. There will be clones yes and wanna be's for sure.
Of course these are the games I play and my opinion so thre is nothing I can do or do I want to convert to you.
Last thing it is a proven fact that GT3 only used 25% of the ps2's power, hmm now that sony has released there anayliser, I wonder what GT4 will be and look like. Does anyone know how much the xbox is pushing on a game like halo, would be curious to see. Guess I could always get a japanese x box controller.

Craig