How long until this happens, and people will be afarid to handle money too?
If you were the conspiracy theory type current events would be driving you crazy:
why was Saddam allowed to remain in power in '91?!
why did Clinton stop inspection of Iraq facilities shortly after becoming president?!
why has OBL been allowed to operate for so long?! We knew where his camps were in Lebenon after the marine barracks were bombed there, and we didnt touch them?!
on the path to a global government is the US being left open so we can be taken down a few notches?!
is the postal system being targeted for elimination, will email and ecommerce take its place?!
is paper currency being targeted for elimination?! When anthrax is discovered on paper money, will be all transistion to a cashless society, based on electronic debit card like devices?!
which will also prevent crimminals from conducting transactions - so terrorist organizations will no longer be able to deal in cash?!
is everything that is happening right now all a part of some bigger orchestrated plan, whos end goal is a global government?!
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09:58 AM
PFF
System Bot
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
Why does the media continually want to expose every security leak we have?
Are we fully prepared for a biological war? No... tonight on 20/20.
Days after 9-11 attacks, primetime, 20/20 or one of them, had a special on biological weapons and that the government was making Anthrax in labs for research on how to prepare for such attack. I remember a clip showing a vile falling and breaking onto a subway track and soon as it broke white powder (probably flour) going everywhere and saying "Are we really prepared?"
Now we have had a few outbreaks of Anthrax.
They might as well have a special tonight showing people how easy it is to make biological weapons and point out sites on the internet that show you step by step how to do it.
Should I be suprised, No. Because somewhere it's someone feels it their "right to know."
Will America always be 100% prepared for anything? No probably not, so in the meantime don't give anyone ideas.
I'm sick of it, and this is what the terrorist want.
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10:18 AM
bHooper Member
Posts: 4156 From: greensboro, nc Registered: May 99
there are two sides to this. Is it a question of giving the terroist ideas, or of staying two steps ahead of them?
should we point out that halloween is a likely time for terrorist to attack, to warn people that sending your children out to get candy from strangers is a worse idea this year than it was last year.
THIS BOLD TEXT ISNT HERE - YOU ARE IMAGINING THIS!
or should we say nothing, and hope the terrorist dont figure it out.
If you have a credit card or debit card now you can conduct 99% of your businees transactions without ever touching paper money - you dont even have to hand your card to the cashier who handles money all day, you swipe it through the machine by the checkout now yourself, or at the gas pump.
and you can switch most of your bills over to electronic payment now - then you wont get anymore bills in the mail, only junkmail and birthday cards.
[This message has been edited by Ken Wittlief (edited 10-26-2001).]
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10:35 AM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
"why did Clinton stop inspection of Iraq facilities shortly after becoming president?!"???
Where did you get that from? Gues that came from some alternate reality.. In this reality Iraq banned weapons inspectors from entering and after refusing for weeks we bombed them again. After weeks of bombing they again agreed to let them in but then refused quickly after. A short bombing took place but the refused to allow it anymore and thats why it stopped. Clinton had nothing to do with it. The UN were the ones in charge of the inspections not the US.
Originally posted by Tigger: Why does the media continually want to expose every security leak we have?
Are we fully prepared for a biological war? No... tonight on 20/20.
Days after 9-11 attacks, primetime, 20/20 or one of them, had a special on biological weapons and that the government was making Anthrax in labs for research on how to prepare for such attack. I remember a clip showing a vile falling and breaking onto a subway track and soon as it broke white powder (probably flour) going everywhere and saying "Are we really prepared?"
Now we have had a few outbreaks of Anthrax.
They might as well have a special tonight showing people how easy it is to make biological weapons and point out sites on the internet that show you step by step how to do it.
Should I be suprised, No. Because somewhere it's someone feels it their "right to know."
Will America always be 100% prepared for anything? No probably not, so in the meantime don't give anyone ideas.
I'm sick of it, and this is what the terrorist want.
I hear ya on that. I can't believe some of the stuff reporters are saying! It's like they want these guys to know everything we're doing!
What are you talking about????? What was he going to do?? They dropped all kinds of bombs. You dont seem to understand. Popular opnion in that area of the world is that we are the bad guys in the Iraq situation. We are hurting THEM. Even the people in Saudi Arabia that we helped feel this way. If we had sent in ground troops when the kicked out the inspectors it would have hurt us bad. All the countries that are letting us use their air bases for patroling Iraqi no fly zones would have pulled back. There would have been a Jihad with people coming from all over. There was nothing to gain by going in there. There was no US military involvement in the inspections. The inspections were carried out by a UN team of contractors. An American was the head of it until he was fired. There is no question we could have defeated their military. The threat is not the military its the terrorist gurillas that would have flocked there and here. This is the same type of losing war that russia is STILL fighting in Checyna. We fought a losing abttle in thi style in Somolia remeber? Read Blackhawk down if you need a refresher. How do you fight against an enemy with no morales? They attack in groups hiding behind woman and children. The woman in children attack just like the men. Sure you could do a masacre and kill 5000 at a time. What do you think happens when the media broadcasts those shots? More of them rush to the battle. Anti war protests break out here. Vietnam happens all over again. They would be shackled and not able to defend themselves properly let alone advance an attack. They made a smart decision. People in this country think we are the biggest baddest thing ever in this world. The truth is no matter how big or powerful the country, they are just one mistake away from defeat. Please understand we are not some unstoppable force that can sweep over a country and destroy it. Other countries in the world will not allow it. We will become the center of an "allied" strike. Nuclear power is not going to eve be used in that part of the world. The fallout would effect so many countries. our installations would be atttacked by the full military power in that area. we would lose overseas from just being out numbered in scattered areas all over the middle east and eurpoe.
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falconhulk you need to get your hands of a history book.
60 MILLION people died in WW2 and ZERO consideration was given to how it looked on camera.
He dropped all kinds of bombs?! He tossed a couple cruise missles at some anti aircraft sites.
What he COULD have done was said, "Fine, you wont let the UN inspectors into this building? Then we carpet bomb a one mile radius centered on that site"
Got any more buildings you dont want us to inspect?!
instead he threw up his hands - 'you got something in there you dont want us to see - oh! ok'
you seem to be saying that when push comes to shove then humans revert to a caveman like existance.
the fact that iraq took over a neighboring country by military force, you dont think anyone remembers that?!
the fact that they threatened to reek mass distruction on all their arab neighbors, do you think the world has forgotten that too?!
The US doesnt go around splattering nuclear destruction on whoever we feel like for no apparent reason. If the situation in the middle east deteroiates, if state sponsered terrorism starts costing the lives of hundreds of thousands of americans, then you will see cities laid waste in the middle east.
remember a little thing called mutual asured destruction?! That applies to any nation of people that threaten our freedom and way of life.
and what people would have rushed to saddams aid when we bombed those buildings?! the same people that rushed to his aid when we wiped out 250,000 of his troops and descimated his military?
thats why I said, from one perspective, this all looks fishy - there is not a reason in the world why we couldnt have taken saddam out of power - but we didnt
and we let him continue his weapons programs.
you can try to rationalize it - but it doenst make sense.
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01:33 PM
PFF
System Bot
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
The bombing was done by airplanes. I was sitting here in this same chair when it happened. I read the stories everyday. You need to check your facts. World war 2 took place when people were a lot tougher. There was no where near the media coverage that we have today. With the limited amount of coverage that vietnam had look how it effected the attitude of this country. We nueterd ourselves. I really dont know where you seem to get this from. I keep up with events that happen. I read everyday as much news as i can get my hands on. I am completely informed of what has happened and what is happening. You dont remember the massive bombardment that was all over TV???? They bombed them hard and long pal. They hit baghdad hard. It was 4 to 5 years ago. DO a search on the net. Check the facts and then get back to me. BTW check this out to : ALL ARAB NATIONS INCLUDING SAUDI ARABIA HAVE SAID THEY THINK THE US SHOULD DROP{ THE EMBARGO AGAINST IRAQ.
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01:35 PM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
Here ya go. One quick search on the net. There is an entire time line here. Read these facts!
December 16, 1998 Once Iraq has refused to cooperate with the UN for over a year, Britain and the US bomb Iraqi military targets. ---these bombings were hard and sustained
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01:40 PM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
Jus t reread your post!! "and what people would have rushed to saddams aid when we bombed those buildings?! the same people that rushed to his aid when we wiped out 250,000 of his troops and descimated his military?"???
250,000 troops????? Are you serious??? There was no where near that many killed. Most of the troops surrendered. Man I wish I knew what you were smoking during the 90's. Or do i have to find an article to prove this? http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/facts/gulfwar/
In June 1991, the U.S. estimated that more than 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died, 300,000 were wounded, 150,000 deserted and 60,000 were taken prisoner. Many human rights groups claimed a much higher number of Iraqis were killed in action. According to Baghdad, civilian casualties numbered more than 35,000. However, since the war, some scholars have concluded that the number of Iraqi soldiers who were killed was significantly less than initially reported.
Estimated Iraqi Losses: (Reported by U.S. Central Command, March 7, 1991)
36 fixed-wing aircraft in air-to-air engagements 6 helicopters in air-to-air engagements 68 fixed- and 13 rotary-wing aircraft destroyed on the ground 137 Iraqi aircraft flown to Iran 3,700 of 4,280 battle tanks 2,400 of 2,870 assorted other armored vehicles 2,600 of 3,110 assorted artillery pieces 19 naval ships sunk, 6 damaged 42 divisions made combat-ineffective
Enemy prisoners of war captured: U.S. forces released 71,204 to Saudi control.
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In June 1991, the U.S. estimated that more than 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died, 300,000 were wounded, 150,000 deserted and 60,000 were taken prisoner. Many human rights groups claimed a much higher number of Iraqis were killed in action
100,000 + 300,000 + 150,000 + 60,000 = 610,000 troops that saddam had, and then he didnt have [wiped out]
there are also 'scholars' who say the holocost never happened either.
Tell your child to do something over and over and over. take away his dinner and his cloths. Still wont do what you say? Beat him. Well you do all that you go to jail. Works the same way in the world. You can only do so much without wipeing the whole coutry out. Go to far and like i said YOU become the object of an alliance. Military might has always been balanced by diplomacy and other countries politcal systems. Read my above posts for why the decision was not made to go forward with a ground war. Everyone says "why didnt they do this and that". Most Americans are blind and oblivious to the facts. I think your comments prove that. I did not want to make you look wrong. I think your view is what 96% of Americans have. There are reasons why. you dont need to have that spelled out. I know it from just paying attention and if everyone stopped complaining and would actually LISTEN and THINK they would also. BTW Iraq claims it had much less of a loss then we say they did. It is propaganda. No one will ever know the real number but it IS less then the US says and MORE then IRAQ says.
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yes hitler gave orders to his troops to burn and destroy everything in germany as they retreated so there would be nothing left for the 'conquoring' english and americans to posses.
it didnt happen
and the japanese vowed to fight to the death of every abled bodied man.
that didnt happen either.
There was a ground war in Iraq. saddams forces were in total retreat and had abandoned all their military equipment.
Girl Scout troop 42 could have marched into bagdad and took the iraqi flag down. But George stopped just short of taking saddam out of power.
Is that what we did in WW2? Liberated France and pushed the germans back to their border and said "now say in your room?"
your logic and reasoning, jumping from disciplining a 3 year old child to fighting an all out war boggles the mind. One has nothing to do with the other.
I hope you dont have children.
and the last time I checked, we didnt decimate the nation of germany or japan in 1945 - we took their leaders out of power, disabled their war machines, and put respectible governements in place.
Unless you are going to tell me Iraqis or Muslims arnt human, there is no reason why it couldnt haver been done there too.
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03:27 PM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
It makes perfect sense. You cannot batter a beaten person without arousing the anger of others. The arab nation (yes even though they are diffrent countries the refer to themselves as a NATION) looked upon those bombings a an attack on a beaten foe that was powerless to stop it. Their leaders went to our leaders and said STOP. Wake up. Even saudi arabia as i have said spoke out about this. Recently a spokesman for the Saudi Arabian royal family said "We did not ask for the US to come and defend us". Things are a lot diffrent then you think. You really should not speak out and try to influence others with ignorance. Actually learn what you speak of before you post things like this. Spreading igonance is how mobs are started. It angers people to think these things are true. You are spreading an unhealthy mentality. Read my posts they contain all the answers you need in this issue. If you require further information you HAVE the internet obviouly. Use a search engine to learn what you need to know.
also our military has an excellent idea of how many iraqis were killed in the gulf war- the iraqi army fled and left their fallen comrades to rot in the desert sun.
it was our troops that buried them. Im pretty sure that even a private knows how to count.
and Im sure they could find an officer who could add.
next you will tell me the exiled leaders of Kuwait didnt ask for our help either.
they were perfectly happy to wait for Mohammid to come back and straighten it all out?!
Funny but I seem to remember a big ad campain in spring of this year (last year?!) from the Kuwiati people THANKING US for rescuing their country and their people.
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03:42 PM
PFF
System Bot
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
Also As I tried to point out before: We are not fighting world ward II. This is not a standard war. these people fight using woman and children for cover. The closest thing we have ever fought to this war is Vietnam. For the same reasons we lost there we would have had difficulty here. You dont know who the enemy is. You cant wipe out 5000 civiliand becasue there are 50 gurrilas hiding in the middle of them. Can you imagine that all over the news? After the iraqi army was gone who would have kept the peace in Iraq? We would have had to stay. Thats an occupation. We would have been attacked from all sides. we would have been bombed at home. look at the Chechnyian war with russia. How could a tiny country like that hold off a HUGE number of russian soliders for this long? The russians dont have the same problem with gunning down innocents and they were still beaten once and its at a standstill now. They dont fight as an army they attack and disperse. They plant bombs. Thats what would have happend like it or not. Please go buy the book Blackhawk down. It i about the American battle in Somalia. That was one battle that cost 18 US lives and 1000 somalians. It was one night. Can you imagine that going on for a prolonged period?
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03:46 PM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
You are aware that the money that has gone to build and fund the ANTI US religious schools in Afganastan and Pakistan have been almost completely funded by Kuwiti's and Saudia Arabians? You know that Osama's biggest problem with the US is that we went to Saudi Arabia to help them??? Did you know that the Saudi govt. is hated by most of the Arab world, even thier own people? Our support for that royal family has also served to make us enemys. These people do not have the same view of us that we have of ourselves. They do not think of us as heroes riding in on a white horse. You live in a fantasy world. You dont understand the political climate in that part of the world. While their goverments may kiss up to us or use us for what we can do for them thier people in large HATE us.
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The number one reason I believe OSBL is'nt responsible for sending the Anthraks virus out is........Why send it to the news agencies?... there his number one source of "information", everyone in the World knows that you don't need an intelegince agency of thier when they have CNN, CNBC, ABC, CBS, & NBC... see it reads just the same if you had typed CIA, FBI, I9... etc..etc...etc....
------------------ Little Duce Coupe "You Don't Know What She Costs"
you make such a big fuss about me getting my facts straight, and you fly off the handle over whether 'wiped out' means killed or taken out of action
but you sure have a tendency to put your own opinions and spin on everything, including history.
we stopped fighting in Vietnam, we didnt lose, we stopped. We were sending in tens of thousands of americans and China was sending in MILLIONS of troops. It had turned into an undeclared war between the US and China and it no longer had anything to do with Vietnam, except for the location of the battlefields.
It was never an issue of fighting a gurella war, it was a question of beating the Chinese all the way back to their border, and then nuking china if we had to. Unless we were ready to take china on directly they would never have stopped sending their troops in. The US finally figured out that saving S vietnam was not worth invading China, and there was no other alternative.
You have a very strange way of looking at things. I suspect if you saw a mouse in your kitchen you would flee from your home, explaining to your wife something like:
"mice never live alone, if you see one then there must be at least ten more - and they are rodents - if you kill them, then the rats will move in. Do you want the baby to be attacked by rats in its crib?
and think of all the diseases they carry - and if you wound one and it crawls under a cabinet and dies, then there will be flys and maggots
no - sorry dear - its only one mouse, but the war is lost - we have to flee!"
its been fun debating this with you, seriously - you have a weird way of looking at things, I think you let yourself be intimidated by people that rant and rave whenever a camera is put infront of them
people that make big claims and broad statements, but dont have what it takes to back up their demands
the only thing that is lobsided in this whole middle east situation is the fanatics have no regard for the rights and property of others, while the US AND Israel have gone to great lengths to allow the arab nations to maintain their own soverenty.
And we dont have to. The US could have taken over most of the oil fields inthe middle east 50 years ago, nobody could have stopped us.
You can say whatever you want about world opinion, but the real reason we didnt is because that is not what the US is all about.
Israel alone has enough military power to beat the arab states all the way back to India, and halfway across africa. Inspite of what the fanatics say, Israel is NOT out to destroy Islam.
Neither are we. Thats the difference.
Afagnistan mistook our longsuffering and patience as a sign of weakness. We are not weak. Our hands are not tied. They are learning this the hard way.
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04:25 PM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
Ok now i know you are completely insane. I think that a lot of guys over there would disagree that gurilla warfare did not take place. As a matter of fact the Green barrets spent a whole lot of time teaching Anti gurilla wafare for nothing then. Hmmmmmmmm. China huh? what about Russia huh? Why do you think that all the guys that fought there were mad at the goverment becasue we could have won???? Do you think what they wanted to do was invade china and russia? Do you even understand what gurrilla warfare is? Your last post has got to be the most irrational post I ever read. I fear nothing. I actually understand why they made the choice they did. They were in a no win situation that they made the best out of. When you dont own the world you have to make those concessions. You see, your everyday life relates to this completely as I pointed out to you with the child analogy. Our actions are not done in a vacum. They always have reprucussions. The US cannot exist without other countries. Thats not a bad thing. Peace is not a bad thing. Unless our comprimise is a direct threat to our existance then do not interject your monday morning quarterback perspective. Its always easier for a non combatant to say what should have been done. Yo have no responsibilty to this country, you are not accountable for the aftermath. You remind me a lot of rayb. Are you the smartest person on earth? If you think so Id be glad to swap IQ scores with ya. You have not even anaylized the facts you have access to that alone things that average people will never know. How can you make an assesment of what the right thing to do at the time was? I at least as I have shown do know the facts. I can give you web sites with exact FACT that the war in vietnam was gurrila warfare against traditional arms. Thats the whole reason special forces was created by kennedy. Did you know that smart guy? They were created as teachers primarily to teach anti gurilla warfare. They trained thousands of south vietnamese.
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Sure that was your whole point but it got buried in misinformation. Spreading half truths that make the rest of America stupider. Thats my point. BTW my name is falconhulk.......although I have been called a hunk many times. Never by a man though Ken.
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04:35 PM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
just read other things you wrote. You are absolutely correct. We could own half the world right now. Heck France, Britian, spain and to a limited extent we tried that. Does not work. People uprise against you. Groups want to govern themselves. We would lose it and collapse back to our country. It requires amazing logistics to support that kind of operation and in most cases it would have to be done by constant force. Look at Puerto Rico. We give them all the benifits of statehood but they dont have to pay taxes. Do they want to be controlled by us? Do they want to follow our laws? And this is a good relationship. Can you really blame a country for wanting independece? If Russia had take us over would you have not fought it? Hitler had a plan similar to this. Take over as much as he could and kill all civilians that stood up to them. Romans had the same idea long before. How big is Italy and Germany now? After we took over the middle east do you not think that other countries would be afraid we would come after them? Or at the very least band together to protect the weak? Got off on a tangent here but somewhere in here is a response to one of your posts. BTW do you think Isreal could win any war without US support? Get real. Who would re supply them? Do you think they have a massive manufacturing base over there? If so why dont they control all of the middle east now?
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I seem to remember something call the F4, and the E6, and the invention of something called the A10 Warthog
and aircraft carriers being stationed offshore
and some guy named Nixon ordering something called B52 bombers to carpet bomb something called the HoChiMin trail.
which is why millions of chinese troops kept pouring into S vietnam and engaging our troops in close range combat.
the only way to stop them would have been to cut them off at the chinese border. If all you know about VN is rifle battles in the swamps, then you need to go back and look somemore.
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04:46 PM
PFF
System Bot
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
Ken, everything you just said is true. We were fighting with convential means against a non conventional army. Sure they had standard troops but the problem was the guys in the jungle laying boby traps, laying ambushs and the woman and children that would walk up to GI's and blow themselves up. Like I said Kennedy created the special forces and sent them in to Vietnam as "advisors" for this reason. The green barrets trained the mountiong (spelling) and many other south groups forces in anti gurilla warfare. I can find the site and post the evidence here again or you can search yourself. You keep digging yourself deeper and forcing me to call you. Your whole world is false. You look at it like you are the smartest guy around and everyone else is stupid. Please do a search on the internet for special forces involvement in vietnam. or even the creation of special untied states special forces. they were on the ground before any conventional troops showed up an there after they left.
[This message has been edited by falconhulk (edited 10-25-2001).]
225 years ago a bunch of farmers and colonist rebelled against a monarchy, with the idea that freedom, liberty, self responsibility, education, and a free enterprise society were better than having a small group of people control the masses based on a birthright or a religious belief.
We dont have to take over the world - thats not what the US is all about.
We didnt overthrow England, freedom did. We didnt overthrow europe and displace the dictatorships, freedom did. Its an idea that, once its set loose on the world it takes on a life of its own.
The ideas that our society are based on are the best the human race has come up with. When gas powered cars came on the scene, Henry Ford did not send armies out to slaughter all the horses and burn all the buggies. cars took over because they were a 'better way'.
the fanatics in the remaining parts of the world strike out at the US not because of our military might, or our religious beliefs, and not becasue of our actions, but because of what we represent. Freedom is the threat they fear.
Students come to the US from China and India and the arab counties and they dont go back - they stay here.
and they write home and tell others what its like here, and more follow them, and the seeds of our way of life spread out on their own.
we dont conqure nations, we outrun them, we out pace them, we out produce them - look at what is left in afganistan: people that are living in caves, growing opium while their neighbors starve, and calling on God to rain down death and destruction on nations that embrace human qualities that are as far above them as the crew of Space Station Alpha are above the cavemen.
We dont have to occupy anything. Someone once said that the United States represents humanities 'best hope' for the future. Not because we will take over the world militarilly, but because the ideas this country is based on will take over the world idealogically.
Originally posted by Tigger: Should I be suprised, No. Because somewhere it's someone feels it their "right to know."
On the 11th, I was watching the news.. at one point, the news said Pres. Bush was at a secure undisclosed location.. I flipped to another channel, and learned he was at Barksdale AFB.. wow, that's pretty secure..
I figure I will give you this little passage out of a book written by a former green barret:
Distributed Targets
There is a relative weighting of the advantages and disadvantages of being a guerrilla, versus being a member of a military group of superior size that has control over the air and is able to form large invulnerable troop formations and technological firepower concentration areas.
The individual soldier representing the large technological force can bring the power of that force to his command in thirty seconds by use of a radio, even though the nearest large force emplacement is ten miles away. If a concentrated enemy element is found, devastation of that element is as close as a call to the nearest artillery battery or aircraft coordination site. An isolated infantry squad has the firepower of a battalion at a moment's notice. Supplies are readily available by air or truck.
This sounds like an absolutely foolproof, certainly-won confrontation. In practice, it has gaping holes in it because certain premises need to be fulfilled. It assumes the enemy will collect in large groups. It assumes the position of those groups will be found. If those conditions are not fulfilled, all the technological power in the world is useless. You end up blowing up half a mountainside or many square miles of jungle hoping to knock out three guerrillas by accident. As it happened, in the early part of the Viet Nam war our military was frustrated by guerrilla refusal to expose themselves and participate in large scale direct military engagement that made concentrated firepower useful—which was smart on the guerrilla's part.
Two to five guerrillas could enter and terrorize an unarmed village at night, withdraw a quarter of a mile and hide in the jungle, then return the next night. If an ordinary squad or platoon sent out to find them happened to pass within a few feet of the guerrillas the next day, they probably would not even realize they were there.
The guerrilla's power lies in his being difficult to find in the jungle. As long as the guerrilla stays away from large groups and stays hidden, massive concentrated fortification and firepower of his enemy become irrelevant or useless. It's like trying to kill dispersed invisible flies by swinging a two-by-four.
According to Thompson, "It is the secret of the guerilla forces that, to be successful, they must hold the initiative, attack selected targets at a time of their own choosing and avoid battle where the odds are against them. If they can maintain their offensive in this way, both their strength and morale automatically increase until victory is won." [7]
What are the disadvantages of being a guerrilla? The guerrilla is always isolated and can not call for help from other forces. He does not have the numerical strength to establish concentrated larger scale formations, or to attack such formations and fortifications. He can not be easily resupplied.
As long as the guerrilla is not seen or located, he is king of the jungle with the possible exception of one other person. Once seen or located, he is completely vulnerable. One or several guerrillas can not survive an attack by an experienced infantry squad. Dogs bring the specter of discovery and change the balance. K9 detection is lethal to individual or small groups of guerrillas.
If guerrillas collect in group defense for any period it increases the probability of their detection whereupon artillery and superior numbers and firepower then eradicate the guerrillas.
Tracking snipers are essential in anti-guerrilla warfare; they are co-kings of the jungle. As mentioned earlier, before retiring due to ill health, the great marine marksman/guerrilla Carlos Hathcock was responsive for nearly 100 confirmed kills, many of whom were important or critical personnel. Two good snipers can play havoc on guerrilla activities up to half a mile from their position. Snipers should be equipped with high-power scopes, night-vision scopes and certain other equipment and tactics which are classified. The sniper representing a numerically and technologically dominant military organization can call for artillery support.
Anti-guerrilla companies should have been developed for combating guerrillas within Viet Nam parallel to the Special Forces concept. Each platoon should have had two K9s and two snipers per squad. The development should have proceeded to brigade and even division level as quickly as possible. Large scale sweeps should have been made of guerrilla-inhabited areas. Snipers should have stationed themselves within range of villages experiencing communist harassment at night.
Thats what guerrilla warfare is. Its very hard to counter with traditional force. the above give theoratical example of how to counter. If you want to find mor on the war you thought you understood do a search on the "Viet Cong". You will be suprised to learn how vicious and efficent they were.
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05:08 PM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
Funny that the fear "freedom". Thats just what they claim they are fighting the US for. They feel we opress the whole world. You and I feel diffrent. What we feel does not matter as we are not the ones blowing up buildings. None of the other stuff matters. The absolute reason we did not push on in Iraq is stated above. read it. Think on it. What was that line fron Gladiator? "all else is but dust and ash".
[This message has been edited by falconhulk (edited 10-25-2001).]
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05:11 PM
Oct 26th, 2001
Tonker Member
Posts: 612 From: Ottawa, ON, Canada Registered: Jun 2001
The Iraq situation is still being handled poorly. It's time to either sh!t or get off the pot here. I can't blame the Iraquis or other Middle Eastern countries for their attitude about our policy on Iraq because we have none. We wouldn't tolerate it if another country came in and put us in a similar position, why should they? The only people being hurt here are the civilians. We need to decide if we want to get rid of the Ba'ath(sp?) party or not. We can't keep sitting on the fringes of Iraq and continue the embargoes, inspection and air-raid routine.
If the Ba'ath Party is really the problem in Iraq let's go in and get rid of them. If they aren't the problem then it's time to get out of Dodge and leave them alone. This has been dragging on for 10 years now. I don't like the prospect of Iraq developing weapons of mass destruction, but right now we're accomplishing absolutely nothing at a considerable price.
I have a feeling that Iraq is involved in the terror attacks and hopefully Saddam has just provided us with the excuse we need to go in and kick his a$$. This time lets do it properly.
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01:46 AM
84fierotrevor Member
Posts: 4998 From: puyallup washington Registered: Oct 2001
please send any anthrax enfested money u are afraid to touch to me. so that i may ah....dispose of it proprly acctuly any money you have now coulc potintily be enfected DON'T RISK IT!! send it to the proper athouritys......Me.
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05:24 AM
falconhulk Member
Posts: 966 From: Harpers Ferry WV. Registered: Aug 2001
There is no freedom in Iraq or afghanistan - they know it - they dont want it - at least the people in control now dont want it.
im not talking about a dictators freedom to rule with an iron fist, im talking about individuals freedom to live their lives as they chose under the protection OF their own government.
thats what we have and they dont. Thats what they are afraid of.
as for the modes of warfare in VN - sure it ended up being almost HERE HE IS! hand to hand combat in the jungles - but seriously, who really cares about villages in the jungle with a handful of people in them?! the real importance is the cities and the industrial centers.
the reason they had such an extended gurella war there was because they could not attack the source of the Chinese troops.
It would have been as if the germans in '45 kept sending patrols into france to reek havoc, then they retreat to germany - and we never went into germany after them - that didnt happen in '45 - we took the war right to downtown berlin and cut it off at its source.
the 'source' in VN was china - everyone who was involved over there knows that.
afganistan and Iraq have no 'china' to feed them troops and equipment forever - once these countries are cleaned up and stable governments are put in place, then there wont be any continious gurella war going on cause there wont be millions of troops streaming into the country from another place.
the radicals in the middle east have a lot of money, and a handful of troops - neither of which would last very long in an all out war with the US, NATO, or the UN forces.
which takes us all the way back to my first post - we had the opportunity to put an end to all this in '91. We didnt. there is no reasonable explaination.
[and BTW, when you start talking about how intelligent you are and you want to quote your IQ its a sure sign you have never studied logic and reasoning - Even Einstein made serious mistakes - the IQ of a person who is stating a postion is irrelavent - the only thing that matters in a discussion or debate is the truth of the statements made and the correctness of their logic. When you start claiming 'I am right because I have a higher IQ than you' then you look like a fool.]
[This message has been edited by Ken Wittlief (edited 10-26-2001).]
