I love it. A guy got stopped by police for having his car stereo turned way up while driving. Local judge sentenced him to 4 hours of listening to loud Polka music.

I like to argue with cops about how pictures fall off my wall when the local Harley comes chuggin down the street, but I can't have bass in my music?

They have a similiar law around here but they don't enforce it. Even if they did the wording is so vague that with a good enough lawyer you wouldn't have to pay a dime.

but its annoying. I dont get the bass thing, why do you like to listen to loose parts vibrating all over your car? Also with it turned up, you cant hear emergency vehicles or trains coming. Why not just stay home and listen to your stereo at home where it dont bother anyone. NO......parents or roomate wont let you.......I rest my case.

In a nearby suburban town, there is a noise ordinance that if you can hear the "music" 25 feet from the car you can be sited for the violation.

A co workers son got sited for a court appearence and hit for a $150 fine. He keeps the windows up on the car now and plays it a little lower.

I wish they had something like that where I live. I can hear the base 1/4 mile away when I closed up in my house.

I like the idea of loud polka music as a penalty though. A discovery of how irritating the "not my music" is the the kids...now you gotta listen to it. Lets have some noise pollution consideration.

It's just not the same listening to loud music at your house. What am I supposed to do there? Sit down and listen? Not my schtick.. But I love loud music in a car.. not loud bass necessarily (I don't like electronic stuff much, except NIN) but loud music is great in a car.

Any music has bass in it. Some more then others. Hell, I like bass pounding metallica songs, it brings the music to life.
I like some rap songs with a lot of bass too.

I do listen to the music at home but when I am cruising around I can't bring my home stereo along. Just because you dont "get" the bass thing, along with many other old Lawmakers, doesn't mean it should be illegal. Those kids buying subwoofers isn't hurting the economy thats for sure. Look at all the sound installation shops that opened up because of that. I can name 4 locally.

Your telling me that gang of overly loud and obnoxious Harley's can hear the little puny Cop siron coming down the street? I think not. The difference is, cops are willing to pick on kids and not a motorcycle gang.

thats because 'kids' are savable. Motorcycle guys r too far gone

If I lived next door to you and wanted to tune my race car engine in my garage at 1 am would you want to listen. I dont object to loud music, just to it around me when I dont want to hear it. At the Carlisle shows we used to be there with all the loud stereos and the subcompact. Attendence went down the tube. This year they seperated them and the show vastly increased. In fact I read articles that the whole town was in an uproar when the compacts had their show. City almost canceled all of the future car shows because of it.

I dont think the national economy revolves around whether people buy sub woofers or not. You can have a system that sounds excellent without putting out 130db.

The only noisy thing I hate is the handful of guys up here that have Scarab racing boats that they drive around on lake ontario -twin engine, no mufflers and the exhaust comes out above the waterline

when Im out on the lake in my HobieCat you can hear these things when they are 3 or 4 miles away, literally so far away you cant hardly see them with binoculars, but they are loud enough at that distance to be annoying.

all the more annoying cause at 20mph my hobiecat is silent!

They should all name their boats the same thing: "HEY! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

im with you ken. Something I notice at the car wash next door too. If a cute girls there 'quietly' cleaning her car, these guys come in and park in the adjoining stall. Then they get out with it turned way up so the girls will look at them. Its like a mating ritual. funny part is the girl just moves to the other side or leaves, and the guys got no clue.

i got a ticket a few months back for having my stereo turned up in my truck. dismissed without any effort on my part. too many variables to make it enforcible to me.

when it happened i posted here and on another forum and some of them were saying if it's rock it's ok and if it's rap it's not. i know what kind of replies i would have got if i had replied that seemed race biased.

(i've come to expect that attitude from them)

also when it happened i know i didn't have it up that loud compared to other systems i've heard (12 speakers, 2-8s and 2-12s at the bottom end. a little over 500 watts total). it would probaly clutter up the court system to get every one with a system as loud or louder than mine (i was once in the park and heard and felt a system and never saw the vehicle. i can't come near that in mine).

last if they enforced this too often eventually they'd have to come up with db meters to measure sound like they need radar for speeding. sooner or later someone or a group would say something like police are biased in who they stop for it based on the music like i said before or that they were stopped for loud music as an excuse to get a chance to search the car or find another infraction.

i'm taking the system out of my truck to get rid of it but when i'm able to pick up another (gonna try to get a nicer one of the same model) i'll put it all back in. i want to up grade my amps though so i'll probaly get in trouble again eventally.

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Phil T.

a man of constant sorrow

Roger - tell them what you do whenever someone plays their music too loud at the car shop... no, not the police calling, the other thing

I wont be long before all these kids with 500 W systems in there cars are walking around going, "What?! WHAT?!"

I wonder how hearing aid companies are doing on the stock market?

Hummm, Don't the same people that make these systems make the hearing aids.

quote Originally posted by FieroLisa: Roger - tell them what you do whenever someone plays their music too loud at the car shop... no, not the police calling, the other thing

You mean the 2000 watt amp and 2' speaker in the wall facing them......I very rarely have anyone try to drown it out. Ive had people come from 1 1/2 miles down the road to see where it was coming from. I play the most obnoxious stuff I can from gospel singing to car races. Usually only takes a few minutes to shut them up or make em leave. Oh and I have a boat foghorn too

You could have respect like Lisa does. shes got the stereo and woofer but she plays it out on the road not where its bothering anyone.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-31-2001).]

I don't think it matters as much how loud the music is or what type, but when it's being played and where. I tend to crank my stereo but either I do it during the middle of the day or in a business section of town, not in a residential area. My bike has drag pipes on it so I don't really have much choice on that, but I try to keep the rpms low until I get out of the neighborhood (I usually take it to work about 6am when she runs).

I used to have a $2000 competition-level stereo system I designed and installed in my Suzuki Samurai (pre-Fiero ownership days) - it put out 145db, with a pretty dang decent amount of bass. However, I didn't listen to a bunch of soopa-bass rap crap al the time - I actually *really* enjoyed Classical and Orchestrated music with it. Made the whole piece come alive. (Van Halen also kicked a$$ on it, too! And I found some bass-pumpin' music as well, for when I wanted to feel it in the pit of my chest.)

However, never in three years - the entire time I owned the vehicle/system (keep in mind, this had a *soft* top, like a Jeep) - did I ever get a single complaint ot ticket because of it. Y'know why? I USED IT RESPONSIBLY.

When I was going down the highway or main thoroughfares, great - crank it where I want it. However, As I approached occupied stoplights, I turned it down. (If the stoplight was unoccupied, I still turned it down, but not as much - the way I saw it, if someone was sitting there first, they didn't need to be assaulted by my music. However, if I was there first, they had the choice to stop further back if the music was louder than they wanted.)

When I entered neighborhoods/subdivisions, I turned it down to a more reasonable level. Still loud to me, but not so loud it would carry into the houses. The more population/the slower speed the neighborhood was, the more I kept the volume down.

It all ties into this - RESPECT. So damn many people these days give not a single flying f*** about anyone around them. They barrel through life thinking they're the only one in the whole human race, until they plow into someone bigger than them and get pounded into dust.

I prefer to 'stealth' my way through life. Follow the Golden Rule. (For those of more recent generations who might not have been told, that's "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.") Respect other's space, physically, emotionally and "musically". There are times when you just gotta buck the system - but when you buck *everybody* around you, you're usually the one in the wrong.

Anyway, sorry I rambled off-topic. Enjoy it loud - but respect other people, too. Life becomes pretty simple, and a helluva lot more fun, when you're secure enough in your own humanity where you don't always have to have 'something to prove'.

Just my two cents.

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Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com
1988 Red Fiero Formula
- 1st Place - Stock Coupe - FOCOSEVA 2000
- 3rd Place - Stock Formula - FOCOA Nat'l 2001

well put. everything around us now suffers from lack of respect / self centered ... from driving to anything else.

If I had that many amps and speakers in my fiero I would put mics all around the car, pick up all the engine and road and wind noise, and have the amps cancel it all out

and drive around in a cone of dead silence!

now that would be worth spending $1000 on a car stereo.

this reminds me of Steve Martins old routine about how when you buy a stereo it sounds great in the store, but when you get it home and listen to it for a while, then your ear gets acustom to it and it sounds like Kwrap.

so he goes out and gets a quad system, 500W, 4 speakers - but after a week that sounds like Kwrap too.

so he takes it back and gets the DoeDecophonic system, 12 magniplaner speakers, 2000W per channel.

Its ok for a car radio - wouldnt want it in my house though!

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: I like to argue with cops about how pictures fall off my wall when the local Harley comes chuggin down the street, but I can't have bass in my music? They have a similiar law around here but they don't enforce it. Even if they did the wording is so vague that with a good enough lawyer you wouldn't have to pay a dime.

You can turn down loud obnoxious music, you cant turn down a motorcycle. Be realistic man, comparing kids or whoever riding around w/ loud bass thumping music to loud motorcycles is rediculas. Regardless where you live, your probobly 50 times more likely to hear someone w/ a loud car stereo than hearing an equally loud motorcyle. (Sigh)......

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My 7 Fieros

[This message has been edited by My7Fieros (edited 08-31-2001).]

I love the loud bass music, it's great.

I also own stock in several hearing aid companies.

Blast away boys & girls.

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'84 SE 2.5l
'85 Coupe 2.5l now getting a 3800
'86 SE 2.5l

I've posted here several times what I think about this...

I shouldn't have to listen to someone else's music at a redlight... hearing their music over my own! And I certainly shouldn't have to hear it in my house at night over my television... If it weren't so pathetic I would laugh at people that do that.. hear all the nut vibrating loose in their cars... and no, it doesn't matter if it is rock, rap, or anything else... be a little bit courteous to the people around you.. That is the bottom line. It seems that society has forgotten all about that.

and Roger... why do you think us motorcycle guys are too far gone?!? hehe

------------------

Tennessee Fiero Owners

Motorcycles don't have mufflers? Thats news to me.

Actually I see motorcycles frequently around here who rumble the ground as they pass. Just as often as I hear the earth shattering bass. Just my experience.

I don't disagree at all with LZeitgeist. I never blast anything when its dark. Its kinda tough to avoid residential areas when you live/work in Baltimore city (but my system isnt THAT loud anyway).

Back when I had my Suburban (with built 454, 2.5 inch exhaust and flowmasters) I was sitting in the drive through trying to hear the girl in the window. The guy behind me had his stereo so loud that i could not hear anything she said. I noticed that his lowered window was directly behing the exhaust of the truck. With a little bump into neutral and several 5500 rpm blips of the throttle, he got the message. Sometimes I miss that truck

It all comes down to respect. Which most of these people do not have for anyone. If you want to listen to your music loud with the bass thumping, go right ahead-whatever turns you on. Just DO NOT do it sitting in your driveway for two hours shaking the windows of my house. A residential street is no place for it. Some punk a** kids on my street were doing it every day in some ugly POS MPV minivan. After all the nieghbours complaining did not work and all the calls to the city and police did not work, I walked over there with a bat in my hand and told them they could be nice about it or we could play Italian baseball with there knee caps. I have not heard anything in the last three weeks.
This is a touchy subject with me. When I was a teenager I had the huge a** stereo in my car too, but would always turn it down when I drove into a residential area. You have to remember you are interfering with someone else's right not to hear it.

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72vinman@home.com
Stock Black 86GT
http://www.members.home.net/gtaclub/

I have 2 thoughts on 2 comments made

1) Cars are NOT treated the same as motor bikes when you talk about engine noise, I was pulled in my FIERO which is basically stock except for ported manifolds and a CompuCAM. It's not quiet, but it's not loud by ANY means. He gave me a hard time but said I should get it toned down... Guys, MY CAR IS NOT LOUD.

Then there is these harleys that drive around at what 120-145DB some of them? IN RESIDENTIAL at night? Hell even in a city area and it BOOMS into the res. They NEVER get ticekts.

2) As for the stereo, mine isn't played in a populated area where I am known, do'nt want the car marked, as for volume? it's not loud enough to bug people, and I turn it down in res areas.

I live within a 1/2 mile of a biker bar.
For me, loud bikes are more common than loud music. You can hear them for miles when they fire their bikes up at closing time.

quote Originally posted by Songman: and Roger... why do you think us motorcycle guys are too far gone?!? hehe

cause you guys r crazy, lol. I had one and ran into the same prob of no respect, people pulling out in front of me, cutting me off. I got rid of it within a couple months figuring I didnt want to die. Its more dangerous on a motorcyle than it was in Nam with people shooting at you.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: cause you guys r crazy, lol. I had one and ran into the same prob of no respect, people pulling out in front of me, cutting me off. I got rid of it within a couple months figuring I didnt want to die. Its more dangerous on a motorcyle than it was in Nam with people shooting at you.

You're exactly right! And that is why bikes have to be loud! It is a lot harder to see a guy on a bike than it is a big ole car. Not that most people care because they'll cut you off no matter what.. then flip you off when you get pissed like it was your fault... people are idiots...

I've had several friends killed on bikes. One within the last year and it was always because some idiot in a car either didn't look or didn't care. The last one was a motorcycle cop who was after a speeder. He had full lights and sirens going and still some idiot woman pulled out in front of him... His wife, teenage daughter, and daughter that was one month away from being born at the time still miss him...

You can imagine that the car stereo/Harley muffler comparison don't hold much weight with me. Harley's can get very loud under heavy acceleration but for the most part when idling are not much louder than a car. And I also don't buy the thing of "I turn it down in a neighborhood so I am not bothering anyone." Loud stereos are for the open road. For God's sake, when you get onto a street with lots of traffic and red lights turn it down... Whenever I hear music blaring that I can hear (of course nothing but the ridiculous bass) from several cars away, I always have to notice and laugh at the person. Even though I am more annoyed than anything I still laugh because this person, usually with his hat on backwards, thinks that he is looking cool! What a joke! Here is a tip for anyone that falls into that category... You are not cool. You are annoying. Hit the interstate and let it fly! Rattle your car apart if you want, but respect us when we are in earshot of you. People will think you are much cooler if they can also think you are a human being that knows how to be courteous to other people. And besides all of this stuff... if I can hear the music five cars away and all I can hear is your car rattling and the bass... how can it possibly sound good inside your car? The truth is that it can't! You are doing it to try to make people think you are cool... I am in the music business. I understand sound. There is no way it sounds good to you...

And back to mufflers briefly... I once had a 73 Monte Carlo with a built Corvette 350 in it. It was built for one thing! And the illegal cherry bomb mufflers had the baffles knocked out before I put them on. It was loud! When I did drive it, I had to idle around every where I went. It was for late night cruising the strip and for racing. And thank goodness back in those days the cops were actually on the ball... Yep, I got pulled over for it. And yep, I got a ticket. And my car wasn't near as loud as these crazy stereos.

And I have to admit to one of the first things I did after I got my Harley was to get rid of the stock exhaust and put some slant tips on it... Sounds good.. but still not as lound as these stereos... even when I get into it!

------------------

Tennessee Fiero Owners

quote Songman wrote: And I have to admit to one of the first things I did after I got my Harley was to get rid of the stock exhaust and put some slant tips on it... Sounds good.. but still not as lound as these stereos... even when I get into it!

Man, that sounds hypocritical... if I'm understanding you correctly, I just lost *loads* of respect for you.

Your Harley exhaust sounds good TO YOU. I personally don't want to effing hear it. It annoys the crap outta me. Yes, I *can* turn a stereo down to avoid annoying those around me, and I do. However, loud exhausts, except at idle, have no volume control and the only good thing about them that can be said is that at least they're an equal-opportunity offender.

The whole "Loud Pipes Save Lives" thing it utter B.S., unless you have the exhaust pointing towards the FRONT of the bike. When was the last time someone on a Harley got creamed from behind while going down the road? However, I guaran-dam-tee you that people still pull out in FRONT of you when you're riding. It's got nothing to do with the exhaust - it's got more to do with cager's stupidity in not looking for and seeing motorcycles. Either that, or (and I *honestly* wouldn't completely discount this reason as fallacy) they see you coming and decide they would rather pull out in front of you anyway, rather than being trapped behind your obnoxious exhaust pipes for the next stretch of road.

Vehicles with obnoxiously loud exhaust systems *and* those who are public nuisances with their stero systems need to be pulled over and ticketed. Often. REPEATEDLY. Until the COST of choosing to be obnoxious becomes more than it is worth to the driver than the attention they think they garner from people around them. Why people make obvious and direct choices to actively annoy people around them just escapes me.

Here, here. I love my bass, but the big harleys, (pretty tho they be) are nothing short of obnoxious at 3am. I don't pound in residential areas. I don't pound anywhere I live. I can't say the same for the bikers.

Noise laws are subjective without cops carrying measuring equipment. When I had MY $2000 competition stereo (mid 130s) I could STILL hear the harley roaring by me.

In one of those rare instances when "21st Century Schizoid Man" by King Crimson comes on the radio, it demands alot of decibels!

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Man, that sounds hypocritical... if I'm understanding you correctly, I just lost *loads* of respect for you.

Darn, I really hate that you lost loads of respect for me but if you had read the entire post instead of just that line you would have also read that it is hardly loader than a car at idle... I guess that's why I wrote the entire post instead of just that one line that you quoted...

I'm sure there are a lot of people here how may have lost respect for me. But if you read my posts you'll always see that I am for the rights of others so I think you'll have a hard time convincing someone that I am hypocritocal.

But to each his own. I'll do my best to live knowing you don't respect me anymore...

And if you think the loud pipes saves lives thing is BS it is obvious that you have never ridden a motorcycle, or apparently been on any street beside one. I guaran-dam-tee you... is that really a word...that you will hear a Harley in your blind spot... Anyone knows you don't have to be behind a Harley to hear it. I can hear one coming up behind me just fine...

This is just another example of someone spouting factless crap for the sake of a fight. I've been riding since I was 12 years old and can honestly tell you that you don't know what your talking about on this one... I didn't lose respect for you because you are just plain wrong though.. you are entitled to believe what you want... Dang! Still bothered that you don't respect me! Guess that's one more loud radio I'll have to listen to added to all the others taht don't respect me enough to not force me to listen to their music...

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 09-01-2001).]

quote quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Man, that sounds hypocritical... if I'm understanding you correctly, I just lost *loads* of respect for you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darn, I really hate that you lost loads of respect for me but if you had read the entire post instead of just that line you would have also read that it is hardly loader than a car at idle... I guess that's why I wrote the entire post instead of just that one line that you quoted... I'm sure there are a lot of people here how may have lost respect for me. But if you read my posts you'll always see that I am for the rights of others so I think you'll have a hard time convincing someone that I am hypocritocal. But to each his own. I'll do my best to live knowing you don't respect me anymore... And if you think the loud pipes saves lives thing is BS it is obvious that you have never ridden a motorcycle, or apparently been on any street beside one. I guaran-dam-tee you... is that really a word...that you will hear a Harley in your blind spot... Anyone knows you don't have to be behind a Harley to hear it. I can hear one coming up behind me just fine... This is just another example of someone spouting factless crap for the sake of a fight. I've been riding since I was 12 years old and can honestly tell you that you don't know what your talking about on this one... I didn't lose respect for you because you are just plain wrong though.. you are entitled to believe what you want... Dang! Still bothered that you don't respect me! Guess that's one more loud radio I'll have to listen to added to all the others taht don't respect me enough to not force me to listen to their music... ------------------

There, loudmouth, I quoted your whole damn post so you don't throw it back in my face again.

I *did* read your entire post, idiot - I just figured that you would have enough reading comprehension to understand that I was referring to the whole thing, not just that one line. I guess I overestimated you, Einstein. Won't happen again. I'll use small words from now on.

"Hardly louder than a car at idle" - great, I got no problem with that. However, seems to me that people *rarely* purchase motorcycles to sit on them in one spot while the motor idles. Most people actually ride them at some sort of speed, which requires that the motor be at speeds faster (and therefore louder) than idle. Idle all you want - but when you crank up the RPMs, you're making noise in public space, and you don't have the right to impose your noise pollution on their ears just because they're unfortunate enough to be in your general vicinity.

You also wrote:

quote I shouldn't have to listen to someone else's music at a redlight... hearing their music over my own! And I certainly shouldn't have to hear it in my house at night over my television... If it weren't so pathetic I would laugh at people that do that.. hear all the nut vibrating loose in their cars... and no, it doesn't matter if it is rock, rap, or anything else... be a little bit courteous to the people around you.. That is the bottom line. It seems that society has forgotten all about that.

followed shortly by

quote You're exactly right! And that is why bikes have to be loud! It is a lot harder to see a guy on a bike than it is a big ole car. Not that most people care because they'll cut you off no matter what.. then flip you off when you get pissed like it was your fault... people are idiots... You can imagine that the car stereo/Harley muffler comparison don't hold much weight with me. Harley's can get very loud under heavy acceleration but for the most part when idling are not much louder than a car. And I also don't buy the thing of "I turn it down in a neighborhood so I am not bothering anyone." Loud stereos are for the open road. For God's sake, when you get onto a street with lots of traffic and red lights turn it down... Whenever I hear music blaring that I can hear (of course nothing but the ridiculous bass) from several cars away, I always have to notice and laugh at the person. Even though I am more annoyed than anything I still laugh because this person, usually with his hat on backwards, thinks that he is looking cool! What a joke! Here is a tip for anyone that falls into that category... You are not cool. You are annoying. Hit the interstate and let it fly! Rattle your car apart if you want, but respect us when we are in earshot of you. People will think you are much cooler if they can also think you are a human being that knows how to be courteous to other people. And besides all of this stuff... if I can hear the music five cars away and all I can hear is your car rattling and the bass... how can it possibly sound good inside your car? The truth is that it can't! You are doing it to try to make people think you are cool... I am in the music business. I understand sound. There is no way it sounds good to you...

followed immediately by

quote But if you read my posts you'll always see that I am for the rights of others so I think you'll have a hard time convincing someone that I am hypocritocal.

Actually, I think you just made it *really* easy to show you're a hypocrite.

And for *your* information, you clueless fool, I've been riding motorcycles on the street since *1987*... and I have *never* needed to have "loud pipes" to get noticed. The whole 'loud pipes' pile of crap is the biggest load of bullsh*t that has ever been floated. The only reason you guys don't get cited for it is that there are too damn many cops who own the same loud-ass pieces of crap that you do.

Let's paraphrase something, shall we?

"I shouldn't have to listen to someone else's EXHAUST at a redlight... hearing their EXHAUST over my own! And I certainly shouldn't have to hear it in my house at night over my television... If it weren't so pathetic I would laugh at people that do that.. hear all the nut vibrating loose in their MOTORCYCLES... and no, it doesn't matter if it is AMERICAN-MADE, JAPANESE-MADE, or anything else... be a little bit courteous to the people around you.. That is the bottom line. It seems that society has forgotten all about that."

Stick that in your loud pipe and smoke it, hypocrite. Damn, I f*cking hate hypocrites.

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Stick that in your loud pipe and smoke it, hypocrite. Damn, I f*cking hate hypocrites.

Nice name calling! Did you make up all those big words by yourself? The point still remains... You act like my Harley sounds like Thunder! What do you ride? Sounds like a little motor-envy if you ask me... I'm sorry if you can't afford a Harley....

I pointed out over and over that my Harley wasn't loud! Somehow you still missed it... Too busy trying to think up names to call me I guess... Did I call you anything? Ever?

I'll play along with your game... Anyone want to have open season on me? Who thinks I am a hyprocrite? If you read my posts, you may not agree but hypocrite? Not likely....

And as far as all of your name calling... Don't sit so safe behind your computer and talk so big... If you hate me so bad... BRING IT ON....

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

On another note.. Why the hell would anyone WANT a harley when you could have a Ninja or Katana? You can do all the work you want on a harley, but it's still going to lose every race (and you look like a skid)...

You know, if you remove your head from your ass, and take the damn woffer out of the trunk, you'll find the volume dosen't need to be turned up nearly so loud ;)

Best!
Ben

PS: Harleys and Ducatis rule.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red
88 Formula, Silver
87 Coupe, Metalic Red
"Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
-Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Oooh! A name calling match! Me first! Me First!

I'll open with "Longhairedmuffdivingcrabcrawlingassholepinko****stick."

Any takers?

Maybe it's because I have always enjoyed playing with all kinds of motorized vehicles,but sitting next to a car at a light that has a stereo trying to break my windows annoys the hell out of me.A Harley sitting next to me at a light idling sounds much better.When the Harley takes off,even if it is too loud,it doesn't last long enough to be annoying.My shop is on a fairly busy side road.I can hear some car stereos(in the winter,with the windows closed on the car and my building)coming for 10 to 15 seconds at 45 mph car speed before they pass my place.I rarely notice the cycles,unless they are really flying.