Alright, I am starting to get sick of this, and i need some ladies' opinions...
I am a gentleman, open doors, pull out chairs... all that good stuff. I would say that i've been described as a "nice guy", and had many people tell me this. Now... why is it that all the nice girls don't like nice guys? I haven't figured this out yet. It seems like to get the nice girl, i would have to be some controlling A(*hole that is only after someone to sleep with them and then run.
Why can't the bad girls go for the bad guys? wouldn't that make life easier? i mean, they're both after the same thing. Oh... and here is another one... why is it that when a guy calls a girl more than once a week he is "obsessed"? WTF!?!?!
Alright, i'm done venting... feel better now.
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11:49 PM
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Jun 29th, 2001
MsBeth Member
Posts: 1002 From: Athens, AL USA Registered: Jun 2001
That is NOT true.... I mean I've dated @ssholes, and I've dated nice guys... and in every case we never end up compatible as we first thought and therefore break up, never not liked anyone just cause they were nice. I'm SUCH a sucker for a guy to get flowers occaisionally and so sweet little gestures like that, I love nice guys...!!!!!!
------------------ Lisa 86 violet pearl 4 speed GT: 17 in. rims, lowered, cold-air intake AOL IM: FieroLisa
I know exactly what you mean pho0l. I have seen some of the nicest girls go out with the biggest jerks in the whole world. It makes no sense at all. One of my closest friends is a girl and she gets involved with some real pieces of garbage. I just don't get it.
yep, i don't get it either. and it's like if you take them a can of soup when they're sick they start to think you're strange. whatever!! just tryin to be sweet. oh well... anyway, i figured that this would be a fun topic to see what turned up.
------------------ Rice mobiles are like tampons... Every p@#%y has one.
AIM: phool88fiero
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12:12 AM
FieroHeather Member
Posts: 353 From: Barrie, ON, Canada Registered: May 2001
Uhh... no comment. Cause if I did, I could quite possibly be calling the kettle black. So Im not.
I know that some of the nicest guys have melted my heart--but unfortunately for them, I have been hooked up with someone I have loved for years. I am faithful, and if I cheat on my bf once, it will ultimately happen again. Doesnt the saying go: Once a cheater, always a cheater?
But that saying in itself has had to make me deal with issues of forgiveness, of grace, and of trust over the past couple of years or so.
pHoOl, I feel your pain... (without sounding too much like Bill Clinton).
How about this one: "You're the type of guy I'd want to get married to" but they leave out the "but I'm not ready for that so I'm going to date this complete jerk instead"
The nice guys also sometimes have the "honor" of being "the close guy friend" of these nice women so you can witness first hand the hell they go through and you end up being the sholder they cry on....
Still waiting for it to supposedly pay off...
Ken S.
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03:16 AM
87FieroGTx Member
Posts: 2630 From: Bath, New York, USA Registered: Jun 2001
My best friend of 17 years was going out with this complete ******* he beat her almost every day cheated on her 8 times called her names and much more.
Well one day I cought him beating her and oped a BIG old can of woopass on him, I expected her to say thank you but she starts hiting me and protecting him.
I didnt git it(
He killed her 5 weeks and 3 days ago
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04:10 AM
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
I belive part of the reason involves the female perspective on the perspective mate.
Your typical average male jerk is easy to typecast, easy to visualise, and above all easy to understand. (at least his superficial behaviours are easially predicted, if not their true motivations understood...)
I could understand why it is comforting, if in an ultimately false and self delusional sense, to be involved with such a simple person. You always know what they are going to do, what their views are, what they will like or not like, what's coming next is not a surprise you have to worry about. (he's going to be an ass, 24/7/365, always an ass.)
Now, take phool here, a gentleman, and perhaps even a little creative at it. Goes *out of his way* for other peoole. Why? Brings you soup when you're sick (awww :) Why? Is nice to you and treats you not even just as a human being, but better than he treats himself. WHY?!?!?!?
Why do a large portion of the human race (men too) perfer not to bother truely knowing another person? Maybe because it's easier. Maybe a thousand reasons.
One thing is for sure, there are those out there who break the rules, and they make life truely wonderful and mysterious, and un-figureable ;)
Best! Ben.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red 88 Formula, Silver 87 Coupe, Metalic Red "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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06:20 AM
Jaygee79 Member
Posts: 4259 From: Dartmouth, MA Registered: Mar 2000
I like nice guys. I totally go for the whole flowers and opening doors thing. I think that some 'nice' girls just like to feel rebellious once in a while, so they go for the bad guys.
or sometimes because the bad guy needs to be saved from himself and will be a terrific catch "if only he can changed", and she's just the gal that can do it?
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10:01 AM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
I thought I had it all figured out but apparently I didn't. I figured I'd be a nice guy with a bad boy image...
I was always brought up to respect women, open doors, bring flowers, always pay for dinner, protect them from harm, etc. And I found the same thing. Girls would say they wanted that and then end up cheating on me.
It wasn't anything that I did on purpose but as I got older some things about me changed. My hair got longer, I got into Harleys, my rebellious side came out more, I quit my corporate job and became a musician, started wearing jeans and cowboy boots and leather jackets all the time. Guess what? Girls seemed to think I was a bad boy because of all of this. And they seemed to like it!
Well, it works to get their attention but when you still open doors, and bring flowers, and pay for everything they realize that you are still a nice guy and it still don't work in the long run.
To quote a very old song, I guess I'll be a bachelor till I die... heheh
It's in there root genetic make-up to work hard to please their man. If a guy is a pushover, he is more of a friend/father figure rather than a potential mate. Also what attracts them to assholes is the old "survival of the fitest" thing where the assholes are the aggressive/dominant/desireable males to mate with going back to the caveman days. It's usually simpler-minded women that fall for these guys (no-offense to anyone here or elsewhere, just a peronal note) these days. Or maybe one who allows her primal instincts to control her love life instead of her head.
Course, they get in a lot more fights, generally have self-destructive vices, and cost a LOT of money in the process (a girl I work with's husband spends OVER $6K a YEAR on cigarettes and alcohol!), so they WILL die younger and kill those near them in the process, but Hey...that doesn't matter, does it? Who knows...
I'm one of those "nice" guys...I'm married, and she would never cheat...but she's a very "under-motivated" person. I won't expound on that.
Just remember, life is short. Don't get married until you're at LEAST 24, spend some time with your friends, while you can. Don't take unnecessary risks (like risking pregnancy) because you can end up in a less than perfect life with no real "right" way out. We make the best with what we have, when we have to.
------------------ Michael ~ triadtuning@hotmail.com ----------------- Photoshop rendering of planned exterior modifications.
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12:48 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Well, I've been described as a "nice guy" and usually don't have problems making friends, male or female. But I have noticed the women prefer to think of me as a friend, or god, brother, rather than a potential b/f.
If heard more than once that a woman doesn't want to try a relationship, because "we might loose our friendship."
Sorry, I don't buy it. I want to start as friends first, so if becoming your friend means you don't want to go any farther, it's a catch-22. That is, unless I just be a jerk and just go out to get in someone's pants. And that's not what I'm about. There's gotta be some connection first.
What better place to build a lasting relationship than an honest friendship? If/when I ever get married, I'd want her to be my best friend too. My friend as well as my lover. Is that too much to ask?
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04:34 PM
Philphine Member
Posts: 6136 From: louisville,ky. usa Registered: Feb 2000
Yeah, well I just turned 36 and I'm still single - so people either think I'm gay, or I'm just invisible, too. Go figure. But I still get along better with 20-somethings than my own peers. Everyone my age is married, kids, settled down - ugh - I don't want that, at least not yet. I just wanna have some fun. No, this doesn't contradict what I said earlier. I still want to connect with someone as friends first, but damn....
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05:43 PM
Voytek Member
Posts: 1924 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
I went out with a girl once when I was 19. I opened a door for her a couple of times, and asked her if she wanted some snacks at the movies (I think I asked her twice). The next day she wasn't talking to me. Her friends told me that I was just too nice and therefore not her type. Go figure. I think the perfect combination for a NICE guy to succeed is this: - intelligence (which most nice guys likely have) - manners (i.e. being a nice guy) - money (at least more on the positive scale than on the minus scale) - looks (and perhaps not always) - something wild / different / outrageous / unique - just one thing that is different from the masses (maybe being really hilarious, or driving an exotic car, or washboard abs and 17" biceps, etc.)
These days, being a nice guy with good manners only means that you'll be looking for a girl for a long time. Most women seem to want just a bit more (and some want a lot more). I realized that a long time ago when I went out and bought a Fiero and started seriously hitting the gym.
Oh, I almost forgot to mention education, but even that almost doesn't matter anymore.
------------------
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06:04 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
I'm 21, never had a serious GF yet.. most of the time I'm simply too chicken to go after girls, but every time I do, they usually end up not being interested.. unless they're very drunk, but that's another story..
in my first year of college, I lived in residence. I was friends with a guy that lived 3 doors down the hall. He always seemed to have girls that wanted him, but he treated them like sh*t.. right before christmas he started dating a girl from his program named Ronda. Absolutely beautiful.... she was the exact opposite of him, quiet, serious, and very religious.. (whereas on the other hand, my friend is loud, always goofing off, and very non-religious.. hehe) anyway, Taylor (my friend) had quite a history of cheating on girls.. so naturally we weren't surprised when he started seeing another girl at the same time. after about 6 weeks, one night I was having dinner with taylor, ronda and a few other friends. we walked back to the residence, and taylor just left his gf standing at the security desk. so I had to sign her in. on the way up in the elevator, I told her why he'd done that.. so when we got up to our floor, she went and yelled at him. half an hour later, they came back out of taylors room and said everything was cool. so then they both came to my room to work on a project or something, and guess who came to the door, but taylors *other* gf.. so they went back to taylors room (gee, wonder why.) leaving ronda with me. she went down to taylors room to get her coat, and well. walked in on them... so she came back to my room, crying. I spent 4 hours talking to her, etc and then took her to the mall to go shopping. I gave her my coat cause she was cold, bought her something to eat, and when she was looking at some shirts in a store, I offered to buy it for her. (was under $20, no biggie) I finally got her to agree, so she tried it on, but couldn't find one small enough... (she's quite petite.. think fashion model...) anyway, on the way back from the mall... she said she still wanted Taylor back.. even though she knew he didn't want her anymore. she'd been mistreated by past boyfriends also.. this was about 2 weeks before valentines day, so when feb 14th came around, I bought her a rose and a small white teddy bear.. she seemed to like them. I also called her on her birthday, which was 2 days after that. we talked for a couple of minutes, and she asked me to call her that weekend... so I did, but she seemed pretty distracted. the next time I talked to her, about a week later, she said "maybe I'll see you around school sometime." so I asked my friend Michelle why girls liked "bad" guys, and she said something about the girls wanting to change the guy, etc..
I know I'm not the best looking guy in the world. but I just can't seem to get anywhere in a relationship with a girl. none of them seem to like me.. I just can't bring myself to treat girls like many of my friends do.. just about all of my friends (which are guys) honk at cute girls when driving, or yell something at them, etc.. I'm usually too shy to do much more than give them a quick smile.. (yeah, I'm chicken..) and think to myself "damn, she's cute." I've lost track of all the times girls have told me I'm such a "nice guy".. or a "good friend"... and of almost all the girls I know that do find me attractive (so they say.....) have already got BFs..
what does it take, eh??
(I've been writing this for about 30-45 mins now, so it's probably rambling and not making any sense. I kept writing a bit and then coming back to it..)
there may be a few good girls who like nice guys, but few and far between. They always say guys are only after one thing, but lots of them are the same exact way. I know Lisa knows this from my friends at Hooters, the nicest AND best looking girls at least there, are always goin with the total jerks....its gonna be a fact of life. Im nice and if they want to blow me off (no puns please) thats their loss. Id rather stay the way I am, few dates, than be a girl beating, total azzhole. I thought I had one when I was married for 7 years, to a model and dancer. Treated her like a queen and she decided shed rather do drugs, and date this uglier than crap drug dealer, Married him and he shot himself in the head to keep from being arrested. Then she had the nerve to ask me to take her back........fat chance !!! Said my nickles worth, now Im gonna watch my car race
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-29-2001).]
Lots of opinions on this subject... i love it. Since we had so much fun with that last one, i'll try and start another.
Why is it that after your girlfriend blows you off for a while, then comes over to break your heart does she then decide that the two of you should be friends and thereby not make the two years you've spent together a waste. My last one actually said that, and it kinda blew my mind. One of those " okay, so let me get this straight, you break my heart again (don't you hate when you take them back the first time?) and now i should be good friends with you so i can watch you hook up with all sorts of other guys while you're doing the "college thing"?"
BTW, what exactly is the "college thing"?
------------------ Rice mobiles are like tampons... Every p@#%y has one.
Originally posted by DaRkLoRD: I could sit here all night and vent about this.
I'm 21, never had a serious GF yet.. most of the time I'm simply too chicken to go after girls, but every time I do, they usually end up not being interested.. unless they're very drunk, but that's another story..
in my first year of college, I lived in residence. I was friends with a guy that lived 3 doors down the hall. He always seemed to have girls that wanted him, but he treated them like sh*t.. right before christmas he started dating a girl from his program named Ronda. Absolutely beautiful.... she was the exact opposite of him, quiet, serious, and very religious.. (whereas on the other hand, my friend is loud, always goofing off, and very non-religious.. hehe) anyway, Taylor (my friend) had quite a history of cheating on girls.. so naturally we weren't surprised when he started seeing another girl at the same time. after about 6 weeks, one night I was having dinner with taylor, ronda and a few other friends. we walked back to the residence, and taylor just left his gf standing at the security desk. so I had to sign her in. on the way up in the elevator, I told her why he'd done that.. so when we got up to our floor, she went and yelled at him. half an hour later, they came back out of taylors room and said everything was cool. so then they both came to my room to work on a project or something, and guess who came to the door, but taylors *other* gf.. so they went back to taylors room (gee, wonder why.) leaving ronda with me. she went down to taylors room to get her coat, and well. walked in on them... so she came back to my room, crying. I spent 4 hours talking to her, etc and then took her to the mall to go shopping. I gave her my coat cause she was cold, bought her something to eat, and when she was looking at some shirts in a store, I offered to buy it for her. (was under $20, no biggie) I finally got her to agree, so she tried it on, but couldn't find one small enough... (she's quite petite.. think fashion model...) anyway, on the way back from the mall... she said she still wanted Taylor back.. even though she knew he didn't want her anymore. she'd been mistreated by past boyfriends also.. this was about 2 weeks before valentines day, so when feb 14th came around, I bought her a rose and a small white teddy bear.. she seemed to like them. I also called her on her birthday, which was 2 days after that. we talked for a couple of minutes, and she asked me to call her that weekend... so I did, but she seemed pretty distracted. the next time I talked to her, about a week later, she said "maybe I'll see you around school sometime." so I asked my friend Michelle why girls liked "bad" guys, and she said something about the girls wanting to change the guy, etc..
I know I'm not the best looking guy in the world. but I just can't seem to get anywhere in a relationship with a girl. none of them seem to like me.. I just can't bring myself to treat girls like many of my friends do.. just about all of my friends (which are guys) honk at cute girls when driving, or yell something at them, etc.. I'm usually too shy to do much more than give them a quick smile.. (yeah, I'm chicken..) and think to myself "damn, she's cute." I've lost track of all the times girls have told me I'm such a "nice guy".. or a "good friend"... and of almost all the girls I know that do find me attractive (so they say.....) have already got BFs..
what does it take, eh??
(I've been writing this for about 30-45 mins now, so it's probably rambling and not making any sense. I kept writing a bit and then coming back to it..)
Dude, you're like my twin...kinda. Except you're a couple years older. A lot of that sounds very familiar. I'm known as a "nice cute guy." Most of the time it's just nice guy. Usually the girls that think I'm cute are too young, or too old. Never my age. WTF? I did have a somewhat serious relationship a couple years back. And she was my age, couple months older. It lasted about 10 months. Then she changed a bunch. Well...sort of. I don't really want to get into that right now, though. It's late.
------------------ sqoach@yahoo.com
84 SE (FOR SALE) 85 Coupe (parts car)(take it off my hands for $50) 86 SC (FOR SALE sometime in this summer) 86 SE V6 (new project)
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02:21 AM
mrgone Member
Posts: 598 From: Barrie Ontario, Canada / Bridgewater Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Mar 2001
same here. nice guy. the guy all the cute ones ask "my boyfriend said this... does it mean.... what should i..." and im another nice guy. it appears we are the same here.
ok now. we are smart somewhat.... we should be able to forge a plan to get chicks. not just any chick either. nice chicks. i dont go for the ones who mess with my mind. i think our first problem is that we are spineless. ...well im spineless anyway.
oh and im 19 the girls i usually come in contact with are 20 - 24
btw the college thing is going to the clubs, smoking cheeba, and eating kraft dinner.
[This message has been edited by mrgone (edited 06-30-2001).]
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02:42 AM
BAM-BAM Member
Posts: 2258 From: Las Vegas, Nv. Registered: Feb 2000
I think that some of you all should pay better attention to some of my posts. It's like this "Fellas". Women are nuturers, they like to feel that they can somehow control or manipulate the attitudes and mindsets of their potential mates ("Bad Boys"). They seek out vulnerabilties deviences and think they can correct them. As a "Nice Guy" you show no vulnerabilties. Instead when you come to the rescue, it tends to make a woman feel as though there is a role reversal. Now she's the one who is suffering. Now, she turns inward to be her own hero and shuns the "Nice Guy". Oh, she'll let you fawn over her for a period of time, but not indefinitely. Once she's feeling better about herself and has regained her confidence, you are nothing more than a smothering brother or father figue. So now she pushes you away to go find her next "Man in distress". What motivates "MOST" women are to things; The apparent ability to make positive change in anothers emotional or mental being. Money, and lots of it. Sorry guys, if you want the good'ns you either have to fain hardship or megawealth. That's not to say that they don't exist, just quite the exception to the Rule.
P.S. This is just one side to a complicated story.
Peace, B2 OUT!
------------------ Knowledge is POWER! That is why the ignorant remain Weak!
a bit younger or a bit older doesn't bother me, only possible problems, is that if they were much more than 5 years older, they might be thinking about getting married soon.. and I'm still a kid inside, hehe.. not responsible enough yet.
how sad we are. i think life is all about wanting what you can't have. girls fall for this especially. they know they can have the nice guys because the vast majority of us are desperate. (the rest, like us, have realised that cars are much lower maintenance than women.) they therefore don't care. women are attracted to men who don't need them or want them, or at least appear that way. i've gotten farther with girls i didn't care about or particularly like than the ones i did like. i think i'm a pretty nice guy and so does my mom, (had to throw that in there, hehe) but girls want the guy that's gonna ride it like they stole it even when she's riding on the back. why? excitement? i think it's because, like it was said before, they appear to be a better mate, more complete. the nice guy treats the girl like she's what he's been missign hs whole life, where as the ******* doesn't seem to be missing anything. which would you find more attracive, someone who has it all, or someone who seems to be missing something? there's this song by the gufs called "smile," and i think it defines this phenomenon perfectly. "tried to live without you for a while, and i can now control you with a smile. tried to live my life just for a while, and i can now control you with a smile." he gave up, doesn't appear to want her anymore, and now she wants him. happened just like that with my friend keri...
Well fellas, this leaves me with wondering what we should do? Front like we're bad boys so that someone will love us, or get our hearts broken by girls who want to play with them for a couple years until we find the one? Oi vey, this whole subject is just plain frustrating.
I did notice that we haven't had any ladies respond recently.... what is it that we're doin wrong gals?
------------------ Rice mobiles are like tampons... Every p@#%y has one.
AIM: phool88fiero
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12:13 AM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
First, there's a whole world full of women out there. You don't have to be in a relationship. Just go with the flow and enjoy life. The best way to find a relationship is to not be looking for one. And remember, until you are happy with yourself, there is no way you can make someone else happy...
Second, who cares if women want bad boys of good boys or short boys or tall boys, etc... Just be yourself. Eventually you will find someone who was looking for someone just like you...
Third, and lots of you may disagree with this. There is nothing better in the world than an older woman! They are past playing games, they know what they want out of life, and they know what it takes to please a man. That's a hard combination to beat...
Lastly, and this goes back to number one, there is nothing that turns a woman off any more than a man who looks desperate. Women like men to be men. Self-assurance without going all the way into 'egotistal jerk', is a very appealing quality in anyone... and it don't mean you have to be the best looking guy on the block, just know that you are a good person and have something of value to offer to someone, something inside of you...
<I>Just be yourself. Eventually you will find someone who was looking for someone just like you...</I>
Songman is right about this -
You are young - and things will work out just don't settle for less than you deserve and just because a girls got a good figure and a nice face doesn't mean they are gonna treat you right ...look beyond the superficial stuff.
The most important thing about a person is what is on the inside - because if what is on the inside is rotten it won't matter what is on the outside - the inside stuff shows through.
Just remember - Someone out there feels just like you do and she is looking for you... take your time and be yourself you will find one another.
MsBeth (nice guys are the best - just a bit of advice ...remember to be a nice guys when your friends are around too ...ok)
[This message has been edited by MsBeth (edited 07-02-2001).]
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01:42 AM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5259 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Don't forget to (on dates) always try to get through as many bases as you can.
Why?
Cause you might get some, that's why. . . . . the other reason is that it tells you right away what kind of girl you're dealing with. Most of the time they expect you to try anyway because they want to see how you handle the rejection. but try again next time too. This way you don't fall into that "we're such good friends" crap/trap.
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02:04 AM
spideyfoot Member
Posts: 214 From: Murfreesboro, TN USA Registered: Apr 2001
I had an ex chase me down the road with a high heel shoe before. She was little but the shoe seemed real big and pointy. You would think the girl I just replaced her with would have helped me out but no she just sat in the car laughing. I can say that most of the girls I dated married the next guy they dated after me. So see a$$holes like me are helpful for the human dating food chain. So what you need to do is get a buddy who is a a$$ and be the goodguy his exes can turn too. I finally found my match one day and have now been married for 7 years. I liked her because she wasn't about kissing my a$% at all. See so it works both ways. I don't think ladies like guys to do all that much a#$ kissing either. Heck just treat em like like a friend.
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03:35 AM
JSocha Member
Posts: 3522 From: Felton, MN, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Second, every time I dated someone younger then I, they cheated, lied and dumped me. Guess they didn't like me as a nice guy, showing up on time, opening doors, ladadi ladadi, ladadi dah.
Every gal I dated older then I, I did the same thing as the preverbial nice guy and got along great. Eventually I got bored with them or they wanted to get to serious/married, so I backed off and found someone younger again...only to get jerked, dumped and my heart broke by them. Just deserve I guess, aka, what comes around goes around.
Finally, met my now wife of 3 short years (5 years total). I, now 33 years of age, her, black balloons come July 20 as she will be the big 4-0! 6 years difference in age.
Just call me Al Bundy, Married with Children.
She either find me more mature then her ex of 45-48 (???) or has found someone she can also play mother to.
However, I having a good paying job and income and not putting up with others people s**t or just not caring what so-and-so is doing down the street (bad boy side) may be helping matters as well.
I believe, in my short years of experience, you want a woman, chase after the gals that are older and quit wasting time with the young gals who think they are all grown up but still don't know what they want.
Always seemed to work for me when I sit here and think about it.
When you get bored with the older gals, chase after another older one and/or someone younger and dump the old lady.
This way, if they ever did it to some "older" guy, they get their just deserve and are left wonderin why. Then you can tell them if they ask, "Your too sweet of a gal and I want someone that has a bad girl side to her" and "I don't want to ruin our friendship that has developed so well over this time".
Shot of a woman's medicine...and we get some revenge in life before we die.
------------------
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03:03 PM
FieroLisa Member
Posts: 1992 From: Sebastopol, CA Registered: Nov 2000
The key thing to remember about women less than 23 years old is that they can shift gears from normal to crazy with the quickness. Dont try to figure it out because you can't do it. Most of the time they dont even know why they do some of the things they do. I think that somewhere around 23 is when women realize that they have been doing this since their late teens and figure out some way to control it.
No offense intended to any of the ladies >23 out in Fieroland but you know that sometimes **not all the time** you get a bit silly. And when that happens, nothing the good guy or the bad guy can do will fix things. Sometimes you have to duck and run. you may even find that you'll get chased....
------------------ Dillon Black '87 SE V6
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11:41 PM
Jul 3rd, 2001
DecadenceR Member
Posts: 1517 From: Howell, NJ USA Registered: May 2001
