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Boston Massacre by HugGRRRFiero
Started on: 10-04-2000 12:31 PM
Replies: 50
Last post by: BN Boomer on 10-11-2000 11:48 PM
HugGRRRFiero
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Report this Post10-04-2000 12:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HugGRRRFieroClick Here to visit HugGRRRFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email HugGRRRFieroSend a Private Message to HugGRRRFieroDirect Link to This Post
I watched the first US Presidential debate last night between Vice Pres. Al Gore and Gov. George Bush.

From what I had seen, Gore seemed to have more to bring to the table, while Bush seemed like he didn't even know what he was bringing to the table himself at times.

Did anyone else here happen to take time from their Fieros to watch it? What did you think of the debate? Go well for Gore or Bush? The news media seems to be struggling to figure out who really won.

I know street racing, sex, politics, and spark plugs can easily become heated topics in here so please post your thoughts and comments without flames to others.

Thanks

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Report this Post10-04-2000 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for deceler8Click Here to Email deceler8Send a Private Message to deceler8Direct Link to This Post
I thought maybe I was dreaming...until W. replied...Hey...that isn't Jimmy Carter...

Gore has made himself look so much like Ronald Reagan that it's scary...the hair, mannerisms, etc...

Mr. Gore always seems so condescending and disingenuous that he's hard to take seriously. And Bush may not be the smartest apple to fall from the tree, but he at least seems genuine.

My take was Bush won, but not by much, and it wasn't a great performance by either.

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Master_Sushi
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Report this Post10-04-2000 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Master_SushiClick Here to Email Master_SushiSend a Private Message to Master_SushiDirect Link to This Post
I'm all for Bush. But I think most people think gore won(he had more talk time). I think Gore is a liar, hes also very rude. Did anyone else notice how Gore would start puffing, groaning and ripping paper every time Bush spoke? I thought that was very rude. I also thought it was funny when Gore said he was in Texas during the fires/floods .

Oh ya. It was great when Bush said ... With all those fuzzy numbers, I think you not only invented the Internet I think you invented the Calculator.

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Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post10-04-2000 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockDirect Link to This Post
I haven't seen it and although I'm not american, I do have an interest for hte presidential election since I believe it's something that concerns the rest of the world as well.

Like I said, I haven't seen it but I have read the transcript and I must say I was pleasantly suprised by Bush. He seemed a bit more sincere than Gore and I felt he was more direct. My feeling is that Gore will do everything by the book while Bush will be much more flexible. I still have no idea who would be the better president though...

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mrfixit58
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Report this Post10-04-2000 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfixit58Click Here to Email mrfixit58Send a Private Message to mrfixit58Direct Link to This Post
Sounds like we got kinda of a straw poll going here. Personally, I can't stand a phony, and that is exactly what Gore is. What's worse, he's a liar. What's worse that that is he's a BAD liar. He was nowhere near Texas during the flood. He claims to have INVENTED the internet ??? Come on!

I'm sure Bush isn't perfect but he comes from good stock. His father and mother are good people who seemed to genuinly want to do what's right FOR THE PEOPLE. His record in Texas is very good. Ask the people of Tennessee about Gore. Clinton/Gore couldn't even carry his home state in the last election!

I agree with deceler8... Gore was trying to become the clone of Reagan. The suite, the hair, and even his makeup was made to accentuate his cheekbones to look like Reagan. What a phony.

The really scary part is most Americans won't vote for issues, but for style. They will buy Gores crap hook-line-and-sinker. After all, we put a known womanizer and bad liar in office...twice. Like Clinton, Gore will waffle on important issues depending on who's lining his pockets. It's an embarrassment to this great country that we can't hold our leaders to higher standards than ourselves.

Think what our children would be like if we caved into them for their every want and desire without thinking about the impact on their future. But, that is what the Gore campaign is all about. He'll win the vote of the shollow and irresponsible. Which, unfortunatly, seems to be the majority of us fat and lazy Americans.

Did I mention I don't trust Gore?

Off my soapbox,
Roy

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AkursedX
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Report this Post10-04-2000 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AkursedXClick Here to Email AkursedXSend a Private Message to AkursedXDirect Link to This Post
Personally, I really don't care much for the debates, and I didn't watch it. In my opinion, it's either you vote for one corporate puppet or another, it really doesn't make much of a difference. Gore I could never trust, and Bush is simply a tool.

I'm 20 years old and your typical, cynical, untrusting Gen X'er, I really don't care about anything. Although I haven't been able to vote in the last election, I plan on voting this year, just because I feel I need to do a small part to make a difference. But I refuse to vote for either Bush or Gore.

Sure I might be throwing a vote away, but I am either going to vote for Ralph Nader or Harry Browne, I'm not sure who yet. I like both the ideals of the Green and the Libertarian parties.

So what I basically want to say is to look a little deeper, and you might find something better.

EDIT: bad grammar

[This message has been edited by AkursedX (edited 10-04-2000).]

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ChadMan
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Report this Post10-04-2000 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChadManClick Here to Email ChadManSend a Private Message to ChadManDirect Link to This Post
I think Gore won the debate, and I'm not happy. This is just great! I'm already paying through the nose for Social Security, which is earning 2% annually and will be bankrupt by the time I'll need it. Now I can also pay for prescription drugs for all of America's seniors (not just the needy), at inflated prices.

That's OK - maybe I'll be eligible for Gore's targeted tax cut! Oh, that's right - I'm between the ages of 25 and 65, married without children, and gainfully employed. Guess not.

We've got hundreds of Republican congresspeople, and many more governors, and the best we can do is stammering, nervous George W. Bush? I wish someone would clone Ronald Reagan before he dies.

[This message has been edited by ChadMan (edited 10-04-2000).]

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ChadMan
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Report this Post10-04-2000 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChadManClick Here to Email ChadManSend a Private Message to ChadManDirect Link to This Post
Vote for Browne, AkursedX! You get all the economic benefits of Republicanism (small government, low taxes) without the social drawbacks (war on drugs, government-enforced religion, pro-lifers).
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mrfixit58
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Report this Post10-04-2000 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfixit58Click Here to Email mrfixit58Send a Private Message to mrfixit58Direct Link to This Post
AkursedX, Chadman,

It's a free country (for now) so vote for whom ever you want. Unfortunatly, a vote for any party other than Republican or Democrate is as good as not voting at all, maybe worse.

Remember how Clinton got into office the first time(probably not, you were too young)? Bush (George Sr. that is) lost re-election because Ross Perot was able to swing the undecided vote. People voted for him, not for his issues, but because he was different.

Unfortunatly for Bush, later polls that the majority of those who voted for Perot had Bush as their second choice. So, it wasn't that the majority of Americans wanted Clinton. The Bush and Perot percentage was over 60%.

So... we put a womanizer, liar, and draft dodger into the highest office in the country... for two terms. Do you remember who was the Republican candidate in the last election? Bob Dole! Not exactly a granite carved teen idol. Clinton won with the lowest poll turnout percentage in recent history for both Republican AND Democrate.

So now we have an opportunity to make a difference once again. Do you throw your vote toward known liar, the "not-a-chance" candidates, obstain from voting, or Bush? Four years is a long time. Vote wisely.

Roy

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Report this Post10-04-2000 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
I typed a big reply to a message (which now seems to have disappeared) but as I was posting it.. my network connection dropped for about an hour, so it didn't make it onto the forum...

oh well.. it probably would have made people flame me anyway...

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My7Fieros
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Report this Post10-04-2000 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for My7FierosSend a Private Message to My7FierosDirect Link to This Post
This topic always seems to get me hot under the collar, so I'll stay out of this one!
I will however, give you a very subtle hint as to whom Im voting for...its NOT Gore!
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Report this Post10-04-2000 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post
I come from a long line of 'yellow dog Democrats' down in GA, and I have to admit that they have never been to happy with my Presidential voting record. I am almost 36 now and have voted Republican every elections since I was old enough to vote.

In my opinion, Party Politics should be outlaws. Let's get back to voting for the man. Character is the basis, in my opinion. A good moral President can have all kinds of aides and committees to help him decide what to do in certain situations. His character will make sure it is the right decision.

Personally, I thought Reagan was great! I would have loved four more years of the Sr Bush. Honestly, I would have voted for Gore eight years ago, but after being the 'YESman' for his boss for all this time, he is just as bad or worse.

I live in Tennessee now, but used to live in Texas. Dubya is the man who will have my vote. What always makes people go after him is that he won't play their games. Who cares if he did drugs in the 60s. Who didn't? At least he didn't lie like some other person that we know...

Speaking of him... I don't care who he slept with. It makes me mad that he lied about it. But what really peaves me is that if I was the most powerful man in the world, I think I could get somebody a little better than that Lewinksi chunk!

Cliff, I'm glad you have this O/T section here. I know most people don't use it, but dang it sure is refreshing! I love being able to voice opinions!

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DJRice
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Report this Post10-04-2000 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DJRiceClick Here to Email DJRiceSend a Private Message to DJRiceDirect Link to This Post
I wouldnt necessarily call Gore a YESman to Clinton, because I think that he has worked hard to distance himself from the President without actually looking like he is distancing himself.

I havent decided who to vote for yet. I probably wont know until I get to the Poll.

Actually I forgot about the debate and I ended up watching the Premiere of "Dark Angel".

I think we can all take stock in the fact that the President holds very little power by himself, we only need to be worried if we end up with a Democratic President and a Democratic (or vice versa) majority in the Senate and House. Otherwise we end up with the same pissing match weve always had.

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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post10-04-2000 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DJRice:
Actually I forgot about the debate and I ended up watching the Premiere of "Dark Angel".

that show is gonna be awesome.....
I loved the premier.

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Report this Post10-05-2000 12:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post
Gore has been distancing himself since he has been campaigning... but I guess he was supposed to look supportive of his boss the rest of the time even if he really didn't agree with him...
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HugGRRRFiero
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Report this Post10-06-2000 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HugGRRRFieroClick Here to visit HugGRRRFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email HugGRRRFieroSend a Private Message to HugGRRRFieroDirect Link to This Post
Here's a couple things to think about, points nobody really mentioned.

During the debate Gov. Bush said he stated that we should drill for more oil wells in the US and import less oil from the middle-east. That way it would cause our gas prices to drop.

I feel Bush is wrong and here is why.

First of all, although our gas prices rose about 6 months ago, they have fallen back to a pretty reasonable level considering how much gas tax we pay per gallon while using imported oil. Much of the $0.20 fluctuations in price over the weekends are due to the gas stations wanting to twist a little more money out of us when we travel.

Second, why should we drill for more domestic oil? Could it be that Bush is big with the oil companies in Texas??? Let's not forget about running mate Cheney's special interest in this too??? So, should we have government subsidized oil drilling in our own country at the expense of our own domestic natural resources, the environment, and our tax dollars for the benefit of oil companies? What good is that going to do for us? Who even knows if it's going to lower our gas prices? It may actually cause prices of oil to go up. Think about it, we buy some products made in other countries for lower prices than if they were made here.

Finally, what is so wrong about giving revenue away to foreign countries for imported oil, it's literally cheap right now and we are saving our own scarce oil resources here in this country. Our opportunity costs are lower by using their resources. Why use up what we have when someone else is willing to give us a great deal?

Another point, our National and armed forces.

Bush and Cheney claim our armed forces are "really bad" and we need tons of more money to invest in them. I don't understand how the "morale" and the strength of our armed forces is so questionable right now. Don't we have the most technologically advanced weaponry in the history of mankind! Shoot, all we do is send a stealth fighter over our targets, take satellite pictures, and fire missiles thousands of miles and bomb away! Why do we need to invest a lot of tax dollars into our forces now? They are the best. Yea, a few old generals are going to retire in the next few years like Bush stated, but that doesn't mean we need to spend more tax dollars to make up for it.

Sounds to me like if Bush and Cheney get elected, watch out for oil & gas prices, and get ready for another war.

I'd wish people would get over the fact that Gore is, well boring at times. So he talked more during the debate and seemed to have more control over what was going on, so what.

Remember, who we elect is going to be the next President of the United States, don't forget how serious and important this really is. We are fortunate to be able to elect our own leaders.

Basically, who do you want delegating with domestic and foreign leaders? Someone like Bush who just claims "fuzzy math, numbers, etc.," barely knows his own plan, has no facts other than "We need a change, someone respectable in office." I'd like to remind Bush that Pres. Clinton isn't running for a 3rd term.

Or do we want someone like Gore who has a long history of experience as a congressman and a Vice President, wants to improve heathcare for everyone not just the poor and the rich, improving the education system and college incentives, continuing to plan on building our infrastructure, has facts (although boring to many), and the leadership to have a plan ready, takes control of the situation, and follows through to get results. Whew... now who would you want to hire to work for us?

[This message has been edited by HugGRRRFiero (edited 10-06-2000).]

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Cheever2
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Report this Post10-06-2000 02:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cheever2Click Here to Email Cheever2Send a Private Message to Cheever2Direct Link to This Post
I have given up on politics. Doesn't matter. America and the world are going down the drain. I used to get angry, but for decades things haven't been going the direction I want them to, and they're not going to. I still vote sometimes, but I vote 3rd party to make a statement.

These days I concern myself with my citizenship in the next life.

Anybody remember the John Birch Society? My Dad was a rabid member for years, but he has given up too.

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Report this Post10-06-2000 05:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockDirect Link to This Post
HuGRRRFiero, I think Bush admitted that the States has the most well equipped army in the world. He was talking about the moral amongst the soldiers and wanted to pump more money into the salaries of these same soldiers. I don't think he was talking about pumping more money in equipment (then again, I could be wrong). He even said that he didn't want the US to jump in with troops in every single conflict in the world as they do right now.

As for the oil, I think he has a valid point when he says too much money goes to the middle-east countries right now. The States is even buying oil from Saddam Hussein! What he didn't say (but what I believe he was getting at) is that most of these middle-east countries are pumping this western money into their army. And I believe that if we are ever thrown in a third world-war, the middle east is where it will start. I think it's a pretty good idea to lower oil-import from these countries...

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deceler8
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Report this Post10-06-2000 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for deceler8Click Here to Email deceler8Send a Private Message to deceler8Direct Link to This Post
Why are we so concerned about folks in this country getting rich when we are constantly sending our money overseas and making people rich who don't even like us ?

Which is better...keeping the money here so it can be used to create jobs and explore or send it overseas to buy arms that will be pointed at us ?

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HugGRRRFiero
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Report this Post10-06-2000 11:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HugGRRRFieroClick Here to visit HugGRRRFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email HugGRRRFieroSend a Private Message to HugGRRRFieroDirect Link to This Post
Well, my Uncle who works for the air force just bought a very sweet new Vette about a month or two ago. I don't think he's doing all that bad, maybe it's just him.

I have to agree, I don't like the US sending troops for every conflict, but much of that is backed by political reasons. Thousands of people have been killed in civil wars that have been going on in Africa for years and nobody seems to care what's going on there.

I agree with you Cliff that we should lower the amount of oil we import here in the states too, there is no doubt we need to. The thing is we've been importing oil for a long time, Desert Storm was almost 10 years ago and afterwards we just kept on importing oil from them. I don't know why should we change that now. Why didn't we cut the middle-east off after the war? I just feel now the reason is for special interests of the oil companies. Then again I could be wrong too.

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Report this Post10-06-2000 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarDirect Link to This Post
I say lets give all our (salaries)money to Washington and let them dribble it back to spend how they tell us. If you are a working single male you are paying 45-55% of your salary as a tax to one form of government or another.. Federal Income tax, FDIC, excise tax, FDIC medical, state income tax, county property tax, town property tax. Add sales tax, school tax, gasoline tax, telephome tax, 911 fees, put computers access into all our schools tax on telephones.

Try to invest and save extra money?

I can get targeted tax relief in the form of tax credits for college for the children I don't have, or the day care I don't need. The democratic tax policy is income redistribution. Robin Hood did it according to legend.. Take from the rich, and give to the peasants (those who qualify for the targeted tax relief). Algore is promising alot of stuff and its all smoke. The politicians think they know how to spend your money better than you. They are buying your vote with your money!

Algore is the one who said Bill Clinton was one of the greatest presidents of out time, while Bill was trying to define what is is.

I have to go take some blood pressure medicine. Maybe Algore will pay for it..oops I don't qualify..I have a job.

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Report this Post10-06-2000 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BN BoomerClick Here to Email BN BoomerSend a Private Message to BN BoomerDirect Link to This Post
HugGRRRFiero, you must not have watched the same debates as the rest of the nation if think it was anywhere near a massacre. Most considered it a draw.

Before you challenge Bush on any oil issues, please do check out the relationships between Al Gore and Occidental Petroleum or the Democrat Party and Atlantic Richfield Company (ARCO). Once you've done your homework, you might be suprised how much they have benefitted from and are beholden to "big oil" themselves. Absolute hypocrites to say the least.

On the defense issue, my brother in-law is a Captain in the United States Army and is seriously considering getting out when his current hitch is up. He manages a maintainence support and supply company and bitterly complains about the lack of people and parts and his senior officers who are seemingly unable to comprehend how much things have changed since they were junior officers back during the Reagan and Bush administrations. And wow, after years of decline and inability to meet enlistment requirements, the various armed forces finally achieved them again this year.

Either your uncle with the Corvette is a very senior officer or is not trying to raise a family on the typical income earned by those serving in our armed forces. Why do you think so many soldiers and their families are eligible for Food Stamps and the WIC programs, because they're all driving around in new Corvettes? I would be more interested what your uncle has to say about the morale of our troops and the readiness of our military than what kind of car he drives. It's a fact that military aircraft readiness has plummeted during the Clinton/Gore years.

You're right, Clinton isn't running for a third term, the pathological liar he chose for a running mate is. Why don't you follow up on that poor old lady from Iowa who has to pick up pop cans to pay for her prescription drugs or the high school girl from Florida who has to stand in her overcrowded class and let me know what you find. I assure you that you will not like the ugly truth regarding these stories. And what business does Al the Whore have talking about campaign finance reform after prostituting himself, the administration, and the White House itself the way that he has? The man has NO credibility on the issue. Just another perfect example of the elitist, hypocritical ******* that he is.

Bottom line, I don't the like of Al Gore or any other goddamed socialist taking my money and spending it as they see fit. His promotion of class warfare sickens me. Hate the rich! Hate the rich! Those "one percenters" he keeps crowing about already pay the majority of the taxes and are the innovative, productive people that start businesses, create jobs, and basically drive our economy. Yeah, let's keep penalizing them disproportionately or leave them out of any tax reform. Real fair.

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BN Boomer
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Report this Post10-06-2000 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BN BoomerClick Here to Email BN BoomerSend a Private Message to BN BoomerDirect Link to This Post
Good God, here's the truth about another one of Gore's stories...Gore's WWI uncle AWOL

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Black88GT
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Report this Post10-06-2000 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Black88GTSend a Private Message to Black88GTDirect Link to This Post
OK let me just say a few things here.

First about Social Security. I am young and I do pay for Social Security. I have been listening to Gore/Lieberman, and they don't want to reform it at all. Bush/Cheney want to PRIVATIZE it. That will allow us to retain some so we can invest it and the return will triple. Its typical liberalism, throw more money at it and that will solve everything.

About the Armed Forces. The media and current White House have done a good job in making most Americans think we are indestructible and everything is fine in the military. Liberals tend to think that everyone in the world loves each other and there is no need for a big military in this post Cold War era, thus showing all of the recent cuts in personnel since Clinton has been in the White House. In reality, our military is seriously under-staffed and over worked. The Clinton military equation doesn't even make sense. They increased the amount of duties for the military, yet they decreased the number of personnel and cut funding. They have the military in these "peace-keeping" missions, and then when a soldier gets a little rough it causes an international incident. These marines aren't trained to be "peace-keepers". They are trained to kill. Its like taking a seeing eye dog and using him for police work. It just doesn't make sense.

I listen to talk radio, specifically a show called the Zoh show, and she has a long time veteran of the military as a guest often times. I wish I could remember the URL to his site. But anyway, he tells stories of how some soldiers have to have their parents send them toilet paper because at the base they don't have any, and how many soldiers are on welfare.

The readiness of our forces is also in critical condition. It would take months to mount a big enough force to take on China. By then we might not have anything to defend. Hopefully Bush will do what Reagan did in the 80s after Carter butchered the military, restore it to its former glory.

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Report this Post10-06-2000 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AkursedXClick Here to Email AkursedXSend a Private Message to AkursedXDirect Link to This Post
I can feel the flames arising.....
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Report this Post10-06-2000 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BabygirlSend a Private Message to BabygirlDirect Link to This Post
AL Gore is an idiot. End of story.

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~Darcy & Laura
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Report this Post10-08-2000 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sdm1964Click Here to Email sdm1964Send a Private Message to sdm1964Direct Link to This Post
I work full time national guard, we get paid good but we always have to borrow money from the parts account every year to make it to october. Yes we have the best weapons in the world, BUT they cost alot of money to keep running. To run an M1 tank for one day you need over 500 gallons of fuel, prob 6 quarts of turbine engine oil, and training rounds that cost over 600.00 EACH. That is not including 5.56 of 7.62 rounds, food or if it brakes down, parts vary from a couple hundred to thousands of dollars. you need trucks to bring the food, fuel, ammo, mechanics etc etc. I just got back from a 3 week field problem, we had 600,000.00 for parts, we used it in in half a day. so for 3 weeks i was begging for parts, taking 2 bad and trying to make on good one. There is a a certain percentage of vehicles that have to be operational to be combat effective. Lets just say that it was'nt a fun 3 weeks. Enlistments are down, Because of the booming economy the quality of soldiers is down. For every 10 we bring in after a few months 6 are getting kicked out. I,ve been in the military for 15 years, 10 active, 5 national guard. We need to give the lower enlisted a pay raise and get more money for training and parts. we need another republican in office.

I beleive in workfare not welfare.
Raise taxes and give everyone free medical insurance. morality is down. you can't spank your kid because that is child abuse. Time out is a joke and I HATE BARNEY !!!!!!

Ok going take a pill and go work on the GT now, falls off soap box.

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wkayl
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Report this Post10-08-2000 10:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wkaylClick Here to Email wkaylSend a Private Message to wkaylDirect Link to This Post
Algore is a risky scheme!!
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Songman
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Report this Post10-08-2000 02:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SongmanClick Here to visit Songman's HomePageSend a Private Message to SongmanDirect Link to This Post
I'm glad to see someone else who realizes that the biggest thing that is wrong with our children is TIME OUT! Why would a child grow up to respect anything when anytime you try to discipline them they want to yell child abuse? The gov't needs to keep their noses in the business of running a country and stop worrying about things that don't concern them like child raising and seat belt laws...

If we are able to teach our children respect, then we won't have to worry about them taking guns to school and blowing away half of their class. That would take away the arguments of the anti-gun idiots. Anyone who actually thinks this through knows that criminals are not going to comply with any law against guns, therefore they become the only ones with guns... Go figure....

Sorry there are so many different topics in there, but they all seem to connect in one way or another. Trying to keep my posts short. I am sure we could all go on for hours on these subjects.

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Pontiaddict
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Report this Post10-09-2000 12:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PontiaddictSend a Private Message to PontiaddictDirect Link to This Post
I can't wait until 2032 when the world ends and I don't have to put up with all of the arguing about things that won't change.
Here's some more ranting.

1 My vote didn't count.
2 If you don't be quiet, Ronald Regan's satilites are going to shoot you.
3 Places that have had wars without U.S. "Police Action" are suing us for not getting involved.
4 Nobody knew about Saddam Hussein until we declared war on him.
5 Would you admit to having sex with Monica Lewinski?
6 Everything you see on TV was developed to give 1 of 2 pre determined reactions.
7 So was this
8 If it ever comes up, DO NOT VOTE FOR JOHN ENGLER FOR PRESIDENT!!!
9 one more to go
10 I'll leave my therories about de-evloution out of this.

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HugGRRRFiero
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Report this Post10-09-2000 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HugGRRRFieroClick Here to visit HugGRRRFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email HugGRRRFieroSend a Private Message to HugGRRRFieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pontiaddict:
If it ever comes up, DO NOT VOTE FOR JOHN ENGLER FOR PRESIDENT!!!

LoL, you must be from Michigan? Have you seen him driving around in his Oldsmobile? (For those who don't know, one of his campaign promises many have forgotten)

I like Gov. Bush's plan on education. Give the people their tax dollars so they can invest it or think they can put their child in private schools, meanwhile the nation's public education where the majority of our children learn, collapses with the loss of funding. Oh boy, I wonder if anyone thought about that?

I'd like to hear what Gov. Bush has planned for college education, so far I've still heard nothing. I could probably get a job at McDonalds with a high school education, but many high technical jobs require at least an associate degree or even a bachelor and beyond. My point is, not that college education makes you any smarter than someone who doesn't have one, but many companies and even small businesses like to see something beyond a high school education on a resume. Sounds like we'll have a whole lot of smart, educated, intelligent young people graduating HS with no incentive or help to further their education?

Bush's "give back your money so you can invest it and do what you want with it" plan sounds like a marvelous idea. But who's going to honestly use that money and invest it in our road systems, our schools, environmental regulations, the police and fire departments, and our military? (which many people here are concerned about)

I pay taxes and social security too and it sucks. I hate that the government using my money for programs that I don't necessarily need or want. It's sort of like every individual is their own little special interest group? But hey, I like it here, and I enjoy driving my Fiero without paying a toll on all of those roads and highways other people paid for. I'd wish they'd cut funds to the police departments, that way I could go as fast as I wanted without worry. Awe well, can't be a perfect world.

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mrfixit58
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Report this Post10-09-2000 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfixit58Click Here to Email mrfixit58Send a Private Message to mrfixit58Direct Link to This Post
Tigger/HugGRRR,

No plan is perfect. Not even Texas's Gov Bush's. However, I would LIKE to have a tax cut. What Gore proposes won't do a thing for me. His cut poops out for FAMILIES earning more than $50,000. That may sound like a lot but, if your married and both working full time, that number is easily exceeded. If you get a four year degree and a decent job, you'll exceed that on one income after a few years with the same company. In the day when the average price of a new car is $20,000+ and house is $80,000+, a fifty thousand dollar income doesn't go very far. What Bush proposes is that no one will pay more than 35% on his income to federal taxes, regardless of how much or little they make. Yes, higher income people will see some benifit but so will lower income. Seems pretty fair to me.

Education. I am one of those people who decided to send their kids to private school. Yes, I'm fortunate that me and my wife make enough to do this. But, we are VERY concerned that they get a good education and not just "baby sat" and feel that our sacrifice (and believe me it is a sacrifice) is well worth it. We are highly involved in their homework and school activities. I find most parents who send their kids to private schoosl are like us... invloved. This is not the case with public schools where a LARGE percentage of kids get little to no instruction from their parents. What Gov Jeb Bush has proposed here in Florida is a credit from your property taxes to go to the private school of your choice. This would help to lower the fees that we pay annually. In other words, I already pay a full tax that goes to fund public schools which I recieve no benifit. Why can't I get a break, too.

The "give back your money so you can invest it and do what you want with it" refers to his Social Security (SS) plan. If the government would invest my SS payment and make it grow for MY future and keep their greedy little hands out of it, I wouldn't mind keeping it the way it is. But, as you mentioned, they can't. And, because of their constant "tampering", SS is on schedule to collapse. I don't know how old you are but unless you plan on drawing Social Security in the next few years, don't count on it being their when you reach your "golden" years. Unfortunatly, providing this credit or cut doesn't mean that everyone will actually invest it. Nore does it mean that you'll make money. I only know that, right now, it's just another tax and is doing me no good. It's only funding governmental special interest groups and projects.

The Democrates have been in office for eight years. If there was an easy fix, don't you think it would have been done by now? Honestly, what is Gore going to do? If he had a miracle fix, don't you think that he and Clinton would have installed by know, or at least proposed it to Congress? If they had the fix, Gore would be assured of a win. Heck, I may even vote for him ( :razz: ).

I don't see any miracle cures on either side. But at least Bush's plan isn't just "smoke and mirrors".

Dang! I tried to stay off my soapbox.

I believe Fiero people are logical people. They have evaluated the Fiero for what it is and decided that they like it regardless of what the other people think. In other words, they think for themselves. For this election, I encourage you to do the same. Examine the issues, do your homework. Don't just pick the "media darling" or take the approach dictiated by your parents, spouse, best friend or union loyalties. Look at not only what the candidates are saying but look at their charactor. Ask yourself, If I gave this guy $10,000 dollars a year of my own personal money, can I trust him to invest it for my future, my kids future, and my grand-kids future. YOU DECIDE!

Roy

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hugh
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Report this Post10-09-2000 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hughClick Here to Email hughSend a Private Message to hughDirect Link to This Post


First off, I wouldn't vote for Bush if he was the only one running. Secondly, I feel like Gore is getting a bad rap from Clinton's indiscretion. Since your social security won't be there when you retire anyway Gore is at least proposing letting you take it for medical reasons, college tuition, or even buying your 1st home. I think people are put off by Gore's stiffness but I think he'd be alot better at running this country than Bush. The previous statement is courtesy of my daughter in law,I don't agree,but her opinion is as valid as mine. Hugh

[This message has been edited by hugh (edited 10-09-2000).]

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mrfixit58
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Report this Post10-09-2000 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfixit58Click Here to Email mrfixit58Send a Private Message to mrfixit58Direct Link to This Post
Hugh,

Have you actually taken the time to review the issues and each candidate's track record? If so, how about enlightening us with some of his highlights? What did he do for the good people of Tennessee? Did he cut their taxes or raise them? Did he cater to the people or special interest groups? Is the state a better place because he was governor there?

After you've completed your homework on Gore, then check out Bush. Report back to us on who came closest to keeping his campaign promises.

Own a gun? Gore wants you to give yours up so only those who are breaking the law can have one. I'm not a big hunter nore do I have my own armory. My collection consists of a single shot 20 gauge (my 15th Bday present), a 22 rifle (for varmints), and Daisy BB gun I got when I was ten. But I support your right keep what you have. Not owning guns isn't going to stop crime or violent actions, just ask the good people of England (where even the Cops don't carry guns).

Before you diss Bush and buy the special interest line, take a close look. I promise I won't tell anyone.

Roy

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hugh
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Report this Post10-09-2000 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hughClick Here to Email hughSend a Private Message to hughDirect Link to This Post
Roy,Please reread my last post.It was my daughter in law's opinion,written by her.I don't agree ,but as I said her view is as valid as mine.
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Report this Post10-09-2000 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hughClick Here to Email hughSend a Private Message to hughDirect Link to This Post
Roy,
1st this is not Hugh it's his daughter-in-law. I'm not saying Gore is perfect. There are a lot of things that Bush would want to do that I cannot agree with. He wants to take away a woman's right to choose what to do with her body. Gore may not be squeaky clean but at least he understands that a woman wants to make her own decisions. I know that this is a whole different topic and one I do not choose to further discuss. The only reason I say that is because there are people who are pro-life and pro-choice and I don't fall into either catagory. I just feel that it isn't my business what another woman chooses to do with her body.

So in short that is probably the biggest reason I am for Gore.

Finally, about reporting back to you about who keeps their campaign promises, I can assure you that neither one of them will. All politicians lie to get elected. They have been doing it for years and they will continue to do it as long as it works.

Anne

[This message has been edited by hugh (edited 10-09-2000).]

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BN Boomer
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Report this Post10-09-2000 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BN BoomerClick Here to Email BN BoomerSend a Private Message to BN BoomerDirect Link to This Post
HugGRRRFiero, using your same logic, just imagine how great things would be if you just gave ALL of your earnings to the government! What a wonderful world it would be, huh?

To be honest, we probably just have fundemental differences on this issue. You obviously believe that big government can and should solve all of our problems as well as save people from their own irresponsibility while I believe that people should be held accountable for their decisions in life and suffer the consequences of irresponsible behavior. Most of the rest of your arguments are of the strawman variety at best.

The government shouldn't take my money and then graciously tell me that I can have some of it back if I do this or that or behave in this manner. They shouldn't take our money and then threaten to withhold highway funding from states that don't agree with certain speed limits or any other business the federal government has no business in. It's all about CONTROL, and Bill Clinton and Al Gore are CONTROL FREAKS, no doubt about it. We need less federal governement, not more. We need a federal government more in line with what the founding fathers of our nation intended, not this monstrous bureaucracy the Democrats have saddled us with. We need more local control of OUR money, not some bureaucrat in Washington, DC deciding that my hard earned money should help pay for mass transit in New York, the Big Dig in Boston, someone else's kid to go to college halfway across the country, or whatever. I should be able to send my kid to college myself with the money that is extorted from me every two weeks, not give the government nearly half of my income and then hope they'll turn around and be generous enough to return a portion to help put my kid through college.

Bush want to introduce to education what Democrats, liberals, and socialists fear most; COMPETITION. That's right, schools might have to actually TRY to be more efficient with their resources or might actually have to reorganize their PRIORITIES so that solid education comes first. Imagine that! Probably makes the lazy among us tremble with fear that RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY might actually be factors in the above mentioned COMPETITION to see who is able to offer us the best schooling for our money.

Roads, schools, fire protection, and police services should be funded predominantly at local and state levels. I believe we can do a better, more efficient job of managing those sorts of government entities at local and state levels than the federal government is able or even capable of.

Gore isn't getting a bad rap from Clinton's indescretion, either. He has and continues to defend and rationalize the behavior of his mentor and has even called Clinton his "hero". And what of Gore's own wrongdoings? How can he even speak about campaign finance reform? What about all his exaggerations and outright lies? Incredible to say the least. How can you people even defend this guy?

Hugh's daughter, I think a woman's "right to choose" is when she decides whether or not to let a man insert his penis into her. Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm not going to beat around the bush on this one. So you already have the "right to choose". Excercise it responsibly. Again, it all boils down to responsible behavior and accountability, something far too lacking in today's society. Would you not agree that we need to reduce the number of abortions, not increase the amount infantcide that occurs in this country? What about late term or partial birth abortions? Is that a woman's "right to choose" as well? Where do you draw the line? What if your kid becomes and inconvenience at 3 years old? How do you feel when watching videos of abortion where the "inconvenience" is squirming and trying to escape dismemberment or chemical scalding? Or do you conveniently not watch those type of materials in an effort to assuage your conscience? And if you truly support "the right to choose", would you support a father who wishes to go ahead and have the child against the mother's desire of "convenience"? If it takes 2 to make a baby, why do they both not have a say in whether that baby lives or dies? What about when a pregnant woman is murdered? Should murder charges on behalf of the unborn be allowed to be files as they currently are? Why the contradiction?

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mrfixit58
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Report this Post10-10-2000 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfixit58Click Here to Email mrfixit58Send a Private Message to mrfixit58Direct Link to This Post
Anne (Hugh's Daughter-in-law)

I understand what your saying. That line has been used for so many years it etched on the brain on every little girl that enters puberty. I will confess to that I am a PRO-LIFE believer. I know all the old arguments that the pro-choice give: pregnacy because of rape, incest, or when the unborn the fetus threatens the mother's life. However, these incidents are a VERY small percentage of the hundreads of thousands of abortions peformed annually in this country. To me, the ONLY reason to terminate a pregnacy in if the unborn fetus threatens the mother. I believe in adoption.

A second confession is about my two kids... both adopted. Everytime I hear some talk about abortion as if they were simply removing a splinter from their finger, I take a look at my wonderful, smart, loving, and talented kids and think, except for some caring maternal woman who wanted life for her unborchild, these children wouldn't exist. My 10 year old daughter is a straight A student and a budding soccer star (right forward and midfielder). My 4 year old son is smart and loving with a talent for drawing, puzzles and mischievousness (he could right his own name by the time he turned 4). I believe that both will make a positive impact on society. I also believe that we've, as a country, killed many gifted children... one of which may have invented the cure for cancer, heart disease, etc.

The child that you MAY someday bear is not just "a part of your body". It's a part of your mates body as well. It a life. Take a good look at your mother, father, grandmother, niece, nephew, etc and think what life (or the lack of it) would be like if their mother decided it was just too inconvient to carry them to term.

One day, you and your husband may decide to have a family. When that little baby is born and you've held it close and are watching him or her peacefully sleep, imagine what life would be like without that child. Now, imagine someone grabbing a big steak knife and start cutting that little soul into pieces while it squirms in your arms. Pieces so small it will fit own the garbage disposal. The difference is about 15 minutes. It's called "partial birth abortion". If a life, a soul, a being, and if you give it a chance, it's blessing.

Roy

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hugh
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Report this Post10-10-2000 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hughClick Here to Email hughSend a Private Message to hughDirect Link to This Post
Roy,
I have 3 girls and I would never throw my feelings of abortion onto them. It is a choice that they will make when they get older. So your point of it being etched onto every girls brain in puberty is not very valid.

As I stated in my last post I am neither pro-life or pro-choice. I feel that a woman should be able to make that decision for herself.

I don't understand how you can sit there and make a moral decision for someone you don't even know. If it dosen't directly affect you than it is none of your business.


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Report this Post10-10-2000 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BN BoomerClick Here to Email BN BoomerSend a Private Message to BN BoomerDirect Link to This Post
I don't understand how you can sit there and make a moral decision for someone you don't even know. If it dosen't directly affect you than it is none of your business.

I guess you are right. Lot's of things don't personally affect me. I guess the terms for murder, rape, theft, fraud, etc. should be left to be negotiated between perpetrator and victim, no? After all, it really doesn't affect me if one of your relatives is unfortunate enough to suffer one of those crimes. Before you answer, remember that that's exactly what you just said. Susan Smith drowning her 2 children didn't personally affect me, so why is she sitting in jail? I mean really, all she did was a wait a little longer to remove her inconveniences than most women choose to.

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