Anyone know anything about these batteries? Cost? Would it be beneficial for weight distribution?
------------------ Jonathan 23K mile '85 notchie - Still under construction https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121056.html I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage - me Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely - Lord Acton Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not - Thomas Jefferson The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants - Thomas Jefferson
they are half the size of the lead bat. And 1/4 the weight but are not great for CCA. You could successfully use one in a fiero but as far as a weight saver I would invest in more worth while areas first.
no your battery runs your electrical system and it just constantly recharged by the alternator. I don't think lithium bat have a slow curve downward in that small package (unlike hybred car bats) I believe they will quit or at least have next to no charge instantly if they go bad.
no your battery runs your electrical system and it just constantly recharged by the alternator. I don't think lithium bat have a slow curve downward in that small package (unlike hybred car bats) I believe they will quit or at least have next to no charge instantly if they go bad.
This is incorrect. Lithium Ion batteries typically lose their charge capacity over time. This is why after a year, your laptop or cell phone start seeming like they just don't last as long on a single charge. Even at 100%, the actual full charge capacity of the battery has dropped down from what the design capacity was. With the right equipment installed, it can be monitored, and you can prevent just having a dead battery that won't even charge, one day when you go out to start your car.
For how much they cost, it's probably not worth it in terms of weight savings in a Fiero. A cheaper dry cell would be better.
This is incorrect. Lithium Ion batteries typically lose their charge capacity over time. This is why after a year, your laptop or cell phone start seeming like they just don't last as long on a single charge. Even at 100%, the actual full charge capacity of the battery has dropped down from what the design capacity was. With the right equipment installed, it can be monitored, and you can prevent just having a dead battery that won't even charge, one day when you go out to start your car.
For how much they cost, it's probably not worth it in terms of weight savings in a Fiero. A cheaper dry cell would be better.
yes that's true of those devices batteries but they are not constantly being drained and recharged with heavy loads. I'm not saying they will die quick I just don't know but with such a small capacity and high demand on them and considering the weather being put on it I would imagine they would go rather quickly as compared to a lead acid batt.
I believe that even hybreds still use lead batts to start and run their equipment and the lithuim just runs the motor and has a battery heater of some sort. Its really something we would have to research further to figure out. If you'd like to buy one and give us some updates on it that would be awesome :-)
Originally posted by Niterrorz: yes that's true of those devices batteries but they are not constantly being drained and recharged with heavy loads. I'm not saying they will die quick I just don't know but with such a small capacity and high demand on them and considering the weather being put on it I would imagine they would go rather quickly as compared to a lead acid batt.
I believe that even hybreds still use lead batts to start and run their equipment and the lithuim just runs the motor and has a battery heater of some sort. Its really something we would have to research further to figure out. If you'd like to buy one and give us some updates on it that would be awesome :-)
Hybrid cars use lead acid batteries for the gas engine starter, ignition, and accessories, not because it is better at it than the Li-Ion batteries would be, but because the lead acid battery is significantly cheaper, less complex, and the accessories, engine starter, and electronics are all still made to run off 12V, not the hundreds of volts that the Li-Ion batteries that run the electric motors in such cars, are wired up for.
Hybrid cars use lead acid batteries for the gas engine starter, ignition, and accessories, not because it is better at it than the Li-Ion batteries would be, but because the lead acid battery is significantly cheaper, less complex, and the accessories, engine starter, and electronics are all still made to run off 12V, not the hundreds of volts that the Li-Ion batteries that run the electric motors in such cars, are wired up for.
ya I figured they could put a 12v port on the ion for that which is why I wasn't sure. It just doesn't make sense to have 2 power supply systems and 2 charging systems.
[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 12-23-2012).]
Of note... battery turn off feature is not new for anti theft/never die and was use by Johnson Controls for Sears Diehard. (No longer made. For one, JC and Sears got sued for that product.) You can get aftermarket units that "plug-in" to battery circuit.
Li ion needs more regulation than lead batteries. And If/when regulator fails then see laptop, phones, etc fires and explosions. see also Fiskers GM etc for battery fires.
Designing good UC system is not easy as using a bank of UC... They need extra circuitry to stop over volt on each cap.
Maxwell makes a unit for trucks that work in a battery system...
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I had a quick look at those things on their site a couple of days ago after seeing them advertised somewhere. $6-700 is a bit rich, though the weight savings are great. Then I saw the capacity, all of 20 amp-hours. I'd have expected a similar capacity to a normal car battery (50-100ah). Yeah, not impressed with that. I have a small sealed lead acid meant for jump starting a car, it'll put out 400 amps, has a capacity of 18 amp-hours and weighs in at 12lbs. Cost 1/10th the price of the lithium. Yeah, not impressed at all for the price.
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12:45 PM
Torch-Red87 Member
Posts: 314 From: Stuttgart, Germany Registered: Aug 2004
If your looking for a nice light weight battery look into lithium iron. They are nice and small, light, reasonably priced and don't require any special charger or regulator.
Originally posted by Torch-Red87: I would keep stock otherwise it leads to this ....... http://www.motorvision.de/s...batterien-51730.html Guy charged his Lion battery and it got a short and car went into flammes.
Google translation
quote
Not only in electric cars, lithium batteries burn or explode, and starter batteries with modern technology can cause problems, the message "Auto Bild". Porsche offers for two years lithium iron phosphate cells as starter batteries for models GT3 and Boxster Spyder. Such a battery built into a GT3 RS, has caught fire in May 2011. The twelve-volt Lightweight battery of four cells and a control electronics was due to low voltage connected to an external battery charger, when the fire started. A report clearly identified the battery as a cause of fire. The manual, however, explicitly point to the "explosion" in the event of a discharge. Porsche said that the incident was a result of improper loading with an unsuitable charger. The report rated the charger from Bosch but suitable.
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08:05 PM
Purple86GT Member
Posts: 1592 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
Li-Ion batteries require a charge controller to fully charge. The inner cells need to charge at a different rate than the outer cells. Also the conventional battery (lead acid) in our cars was designed to also act as a capacitor to absorb voltage spikes and drops. I'm not sure the li-ion will do the same.
Like everyone else says, it's to much of a head ache and high cost for what it's worth.
What about the optima gel cells. Are the not lighter? and maybe relocate it to the front or something?
Cheers!
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08:13 PM
Zac88GT Member
Posts: 1026 From: Victoria BC Registered: Nov 2004
Sold for use in off road vehicle. read they faq too...
Different Li formulas... Some have less risk for blowing up but any Li battery have fire problem... Li Na and a few others are very reactive and moisture/air is a big problem with many compound used to make batteries.
Li and many Li compounds is a HAZMAT in U.S. Ship a laptop doesn't need HAZMAT shipping but Bigger batteries, 2 dozen or more cells, etc, often do.
