Last year I flew from DFW to Greensboro, NC and purchased an 86 GT with 5 Speed that was in really good shape. I drove it back to DFW with zero issues. I already knew that I wanted to swap in a 3800SC engine. Then about two-three weeks after I had the car back in DFW, I found the find. A 3800 SC engine from Morad Auto Parts out of Ohio (a well know and very reputable supplier of salvaged parts). This 3800SC was out of a 98 Buick Regal and the best part is it had less than 22K original miles on it.

VIN: 2G4WF5216W1600932

I paid $3k for the engine plus shipping from Ohio to highly recommended mechanic in Richardson, TX (been in business for over a decade in the same location & works on every type of vehicle to the very high-end Ferrari...last swap he did was an SR20 into a 91 240sx. He originally quoted me 19 days to do the swap...that was over 6 months ago. We will skip all the pain of the last 6 months and get to the heart of the issue currently. It is all put together and mounted, but he can't seem to get the electrical right. Today my mechanic calls me and states that he is not going to use the after-market ECM and started to go reprogram the factory ecm and finds the following vin #:

VIN:1G4GD2217W4703225

When we look up the vin, you find out it is for a 3800SC 98 BUICK RIVIERA with about 100K of miles on it.

So I call Morad Parts and within 10 minutes the owner calls me back and states that there is no funny business going on and that he can prove everything with documentation and photos (including removal from original car).

Now I have an 86 GT with a 3800SC swap that is so close to being finished...and do not know who to believe. I am telecom network design engineer and unfortunately not a mechanic...which sucks in this instance!

I am looking for someone or two separate people who can assist me.

1. How can I definitely verify and ensure that the engine that is now mounted in my car is the engine I thought I paid for....$3K for a 3800sc with 100K miles on is BS and fraud.

2. Is there anyone close to the DFW area that could help me get this finished...it is all in the wiring harness and ECM at this point.

Please help! anyone please!

Thanks for listening and any assistance.

I think I was talking with u thru emails a few weeks back about ur swap. I first emailed u about the stick engine then went from there.

First off the VIN in the PCM not matching the motor doesn't mean squat. I have dealt with Morad many times as many other have and you should not be worried. He is a stand up guy that does not try to screw anyone. PCM VIN not matching doesn't mean anything. Also you can tell the differance in a 100K motor and 20K motor by looking under the valve covers.

The problem with ur swap is u are trying to use a Buick code which does not work. You will need to flash the PCM to a Grand Prix code. Then go from there and hope all the wiring is correct. That is the problem of having a non Fiero shop work on a Fiero swap they don't usually know all the little details that can cause headaches. I have a few flashed PCMs if you want to try one of them or get Nosrac on here to flash u a PCM as he is local.

Of course the PCM just might be the beginning of ur problems....

I agree, VIN's verus PCM numbers don't mean much of anything. There is also no reason to use an aftermarket ECM when the factory one works so well in a Fiero.

MstangsBware,

thanks for all the info...yes you are correct. I really need to talk on the phone if possible. I wan to see if I can get someone to meet me at his shop in Richardson tomorrow if possible...can you call me...I will PM you my cell number

quote Originally posted by TXOPIE: MstangsBware, thanks for all the info...yes you are correct. I really need to talk on the phone if possible. I wan to see if I can get someone to meet me at his shop in Richardson tomorrow if possible...can you call me...I will PM you my cell number

It will have to be between 3-5 when I can meet u ad I work nights. Pm me ur number and if up late I will give u a call tonight. If not then I can call u tomorrow when I wake up..

MstangsBware,

PM'd you my cell...going to crash for the night, but you can call me anytime after 9am tomorrow. I am game to meet in Richardson at my mechanics place....its off the 75 at Collins exit. If you could bring one of your ECMs. Thanks...I really appreciate it.

Phonedawgz on this forum does the conversion harness and I can reprogram your PCM.

I live in Euless by the DFW airport and will be at Papas BBQ off the NW Highway in west Dallas from around 1100 to 2:00 for the North Texas Fiero Club meeting.

You should have pinged for help earlier but have NO fear NTFC is here....LOL

Having ALL the conversion parts and some basic instructions the 3800SC can be an assemble and "Bolt on" swap for any skilled mechanic.

However, the first time probably wont be their best swap as there are a few tricks I have heard.

Update on the issues!

First off, thanks for the all the great input.

I received a call for the owner of Morad parts this morning clarifying the confusion from their end. The issue from their end, is that they actually accidentally shipped the original PCM for my engine to someone else and had to match it with a replacement. The replacement PCM came from the 98 Riviera, but the engine is the from the 98 Regal that had less than 22k miles on it.

So no foul on Morad Parts...still a great place to do business.

Went to the North Texas Fiero Club meeting this morning and meet a bunch of cool guys.

One of them "Terrance" had a tuner and followed me back to my mechanic's place in Richardson, TX.

Unfortunately he was not able to get it started, but in combination of "Terrance" , "Stephen Poe", and Sinster (Ryan)'s input, I believe we have gotten to the heart of the issue.

It looks to be all with the PCM and wiring harness. Instead of laying out all the mistakes...sufficed to say...once the harness is corrected to a 99 GrandPrix and the PCM is setup for the same, Tuesday morning....then she will be driving by COB Tuesday.

Will update everyone once she is up and running.

Thanks again!

Getting it started and running is only the beginning.....With just the wiring being a issue you have to think about other areas of the swap....Like what flywheel was used along with what clutch, ect. I don't wanna sound negative but just alot to think about still....Hopefully all goes well though.....

Have you tried swapping the ignition control module. When mine went out it was the exact same symptoms as yours. I thought it was the tune or I kinked the harness or something as i just upgraded the IC reservior. The would start run for various times at first but die and then wouldn't start, but just turn over and over. You can get one in the yard or eBay for $40.
Sorry as I know it gets very frustrating and $$$.

Well unfortunately the car is locked up in the shop till Tuesday morning, my mechanic has gone to meet his family at the lake for the holiday weekend.

Stephen Poe has also spoken directly with my mechanic as well since my last posting.

My mechanic will be adjusting the wiring harness to match the grand Prix pin-out instead of the regal first thing Monday morning...shouldn't takes long hopefully...they have every wire mapped and well documented at this point.

Stephen also offered to be available for my mechanic on Tuesday, if needed.

I may be calling you Tuesday with coffee and cash in hand, if needed.

As far as the comments above about other hardware issues...I think we are good...the engine has already run anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes before it dies...but as we all know...time will only tell.

Thanks for everything!

If he will be starting back on the car Monday then that day works better for me as I am off the entire day after I wake up from sleeping.....

Stephen...I would love to say yes, but knowing him, probably not.

Did he say there was a chance it would be Monday to you when you spoke to him?

quote Originally posted by TXOPIE: Stephen...I would love to say yes, but knowing him, probably not. Did he say there was a chance it would be Monday to you when you spoke to him?

He said Tuesday but I saw u mentioned Monday morning so I was going off that...

After having one of the cleanest 3800SC swaps ever.



I recommend that once you get her running good that you get her cleaned up all pretty like.

Nothing like it, except maybe having a V8...lol

I miss my SC already.....Whine 4 me

[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 05-26-2012).]

quote Originally posted by nosrac: I miss my SC already.....Whine 4 me

wut?

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Do us a Favor and work on the LS4...LOL

I wish.....Gonna be working on a 3800 swap that is so close to being done...But after that I have another car back for MODs(Gen V, XP, IC, ect)....seems like the work never ends...

quote $3K for a 3800sc with 100K miles on is BS and fraud.

Its just plain too much first off...

Given the fact I have been around these motors for 10+ years, and bought over 30 of them, I can tell you from experience I would rather take the 100k mile motor over anything else. You would never be able to tell the difference between the 2 anyway.

Secondly, the PCM vin numbers are pointless... The pcm was probably tossed in a pcm pile when the car was taken apart, and you were just given whatever one came off the pile next.

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: wut?

Jeah, me thinks I should have went to XPZ,, Headz and Gen V instead of Turbo....???

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Jeah, me thinks I should have went to XPZ,, Headz and Gen V instead of Turbo....???

I think you will be happy when the turbo is on the road......I know I will be happy when I am back ICed, pullied down and rocking the HP again.....

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Jeah, me thinks I should have went to XPZ,, Headz and Gen V instead of Turbo....???

I see you still have a lot to learn.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

Or a Whipple supercharger. Or actually a wife if you like to hear whining so much. Lolz.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by nosrac: After having one of the cleanest 3800SC swaps ever.

Yeah, ok... 1 of the cleanest

quote Originally posted by revin: Yeah, ok... 1 of the cleanest

What Choo got...mang.
I showed mine now Show yours?

quote Originally posted by nosrac: What Choo got...mang. I showed mine now Show yours?

I'm game...
Here's one I think is in major contention...


And here's two..


both built by me

quote Originally posted by Fierofreak00: I'm game... both built by me

He wins.

Question though, on your personal manual swap, it looks like you got the aluminum style supercharger pulley bracket to work...Is it worth using because I thought you could put the coilpack there since it's flat and not interfere with anything, and it seems to have more belt wrap on the supercharger? My decklid hinge is already half cut, so that's not a big deal to me.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by mattwa: He wins. Question though, on your personal manual swap, it looks like you got the aluminum style supercharger pulley bracket to work...Is it worth using because I thought you could put the coilpack there since it's flat and not interfere with anything, and it seems to have more belt wrap on the supercharger? My decklid hinge is already half cut, so that's not a big deal to me.

I did use the aluminium one (I believe, it was from a Regal) as that was all that I had at the time. But, I customized it by cutting all the excess bits off, as I only wanted to use the pullies. I mounted my coil on the front frame of the cradle so there was no need for it. But, I have changed that all out to the GTP set up (again, modified to remove the excess) as I remounted my PCM similar to what I did on my customer's car (I liked it better). The belt wrap on the supercharger is the same between both tensioners, just the length of the belt changes because of pulley placement on the bracket (the Regals was longer). -Jason

quote Originally posted by Fierofreak00: I did use the aluminium one (I believe, it was from a Regal) as that was all that I had at the time. But, I customized it by cutting all the excess bits off, as I only wanted to use the pullies. I mounted my coil on the front frame of the cradle so there was no need for it. But, I have changed that all out to the GTP set up (again, modified to remove the excess) as I remounted my PCM similar to what I did on my customer's car (I liked it better). The belt wrap on the supercharger is the same between both tensioners, just the length of the belt changes because of pulley placement on the bracket (the Regals was longer). -Jason

Regals had the GTP setup, Rivieras had the aluminium one. But thanks for the info. No point in using the longer one then if the belt wrap is the same.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-29-2012).]

No fair, I cannot post pics from work.

Maybe I should NOT show ya mine, since you are getting tired of the Supercharger thing

remember: There is nothing SUPER about a turbo.....

quote Originally posted by Fierofreak00: I'm game... Here's one I think is in major contention...

The fire in the engine bay is priceless ....Also, cant beat the low mount Alt and custom fuel rail.

quote Originally posted by Fierofreak00: I'm game... Here's one I think is in major contention...

I agree.....Very nice swap with alot of attention to detail....One thing I do notice right off the bat is the cross over not being coated and it sticks out like a sore thumb but then again I pay attention to everything. Of course this is swap is no where near what DarkHorizon has done......

Oh yea?! Well here is mine!




Built under the smallest of budgets.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by mattwa: Oh yea?! Well here is mine! Built under the smallest of budgets.

Well done. Something to be proud of.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Well done. Something to be proud of.

Thanks!

I should say under the smallest realistic budgets, as this was alot more then $500. I think the total spent for everything including engine and transmission was $2000. Including new suspension bits, fuel pump, etc.

Edit: I got a great starting point for a Turbo with the L26 intake.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I agree.....Very nice swap with alot of attention to detail....One thing I do notice right off the bat is the cross over not being coated and it sticks out like a sore thumb but then again I pay attention to everything. Of course this is swap is no where near what DarkHorizon has done......

Stephen, that pic is a year old, all that you have pointed out has been rectified. I moved the PCM from the interior to the engine compartment repainted and rewired alot of stuff....I only had that older pic on my computer.. If you think those are nice, wait until you see my next one which is in the works, I'm just waiting for the car to show up.