I just got back from Cleveland last night with my newest addition to the pace car collection. The vocational school in Cleveland decided that it was finished using the car for educational purposes and gave me a call in October wanting to know if I was interested in taking the car home with me. After 3 milliseconds of thought, I decided that it would probably be a good idea to say yes.
The car was donated to me on a "Bill of Sale" with no title. I had to sign a contract of terms and conditions basically agreeing that I would not title the car and drive it on any public roads and accept full responsibility of the car by means of a liability "hold harmless" release naming the school and PPG Industries. The car does not legally have a VIN but does have a manufactureres ID plate with a 15 digit identification number on it as do the Yellow and Blue PPG cars.
So, that makes a total of four PPG Pace Cars in Iowa. The rest of the cars, the green pearl, red pearl and white pearl, have been disposed of between approximately 1993 and 2003. I have found contact with the person who was responsible for donating the cars from PPG and he told where each car went. After making contact with each vocational school, I sadly learned of the fate of the cars.
The car is in pretty decent condition considering that the car was handled by high school students and was repainted once or twice a year since 1988. The car is filthy with body shop dust, so the pictures kind of make the car look worse than it really is. The amazing thing about the car is that there are no pieces missing except the grills that mount in the inset of the front fascia and the two bottom Marcal road lights. The few broken parts on the car are common fiero items.
This car is the most important car of the six GTP cars. It was the first car built originally intended to be part of the PPG Pace Car Fleet. After it was completed, there was a PPG Corporate decision to have five more built. I am still researching to find out how and why the Precision Driving Team came about. The Precision Driving Team operated under a completely different contract and budget than the PPG Pace Car Fleet. It is the only turbo charged car in the team. When the cars were displayed, this car would be the one that was opened up and shown to the public. It also was used primarily for VIP rides and other promotional activities. It would perform with the other five when it was running, but did not attend all of the venues that the other five did. The car had a reliablity issue with the turbo and engine management system. A short budget and schedule did not allow for full development of the turbo.
First off, a pic of the car sometime in 1985 when it was fresh out of the box. The picture was taken at the PMD Prototyping facility in Pontiac, MI when it was there to do some of the limited performance tuning and before the decision to build five more for a team. There are several differences in the car from this picture to the time it debuted with the Precision Drivng Team. Note the door decals say "Challenge Cup Series". I have yet to discover why that was.
Now on November 30th, 2010. This is how the students felt that it needed to look during the last repaint. The graphics will most likely come off right away. The car does not run yet and the brakes are dragging. So, it will need some TLC right away to make it mobile on its own.
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10:37 PM
R Runner Member
Posts: 3678 From: Scottsville, KY Registered: Feb 2003
I guess the obvious question that there is an obvious answer to is will this particular model be restored to original condition? That seems like it will be somewhat of a monumental task to do, but with you already having the only complete versions of this car I'm guessing that if you had to remake particular components you would have the absolute best references possible.
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10:47 PM
fieroguy123 Member
Posts: 1523 From: Indianapolis Registered: Sep 2009
Fred is the right guy to get this car back into shape.
While it will be a lot of work and some money it is not as bad as it looks. Most of the car is there and in tact. There will be some need to have some parts made for it and like stated Freds other cars will be great to get this done.
I don't think there are many who can do this but I am sure Fred will in time. The key here is that the car did not get lost forever.
Sometimes the good guys win.
Fred when you ever get this one done I want a drive in it. Off public roads of course.
Congrats Fred! Can't wait to see more pictures, and hopefully see it returned to it's former glory.
Did the other cars have identical bumper grilles? Could you use them as a template or to make a mold to make new ones for this car? Did it also still have the light bar?
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10:59 PM
RAREW66 Member
Posts: 1119 From: Davenport, IA USA Registered: Jun 2001
One of the reasons that the school contacted me was that they felt most confident that I would give the car a proper home and restoration. I have stayed in contact with the school over the years and the auto body director became aware that I had a strong commitment to the PPG cars as I had sent him pictures each time a new one came along. At first I was told that the car would never leave the premises for any reason including denial to attend Fierorama 2005 and the 25th Anniversary Show. Goes to show how times change. My thoughts right now are to restore this car first being that it is not in original condition versus restoring the yellow first that presents itself well in unrestored original condition.
Edit: The fascia grills are just 1/8" x 1/2" aluminum strips tack welded to a back mounting bracket. Easy to make. I already have the material pulled out of my junk stack to duplicate them. This car will have a slight variation due to the second set of road lights up in the insets versus the other five cars. The two missing road lights are Marcal just like the ones used on the mid 80's Mustang GT's.
I am also working with the nations largest Whelen dealer in Detroit to accumulate the period correct light bars since I now will need to aquire three. This has proven to be a large task as the light bar has been upgraded several times in the last 25 years. While a brand new one would look right to the public, it would not be the same as a light bar made in 1985.
[This message has been edited by RAREW66 (edited 12-03-2010).]
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11:00 PM
Ramsespride Member
Posts: 1979 From: Where i am is where i am. Registered: Feb 2010
My honest opinion- Countinue the black from the back up to the front along the top line of the body and make the hood Black with Dual White stripes about 4 inches wide and 2 inches apart all the way back. The car already looks like i would buy it and if that was done i would have it in my driveway before sundown the next day!! KIDNEYS OR NO KIDNEYS!!!!
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11:14 PM
PFF
System Bot
Tony Kania Member
Posts: 20794 From: The Inland Northwest Registered: Dec 2008
Ok now how will you take these to car shows if you cant drive them? I mean it would be a wonderful sight to see three of these awesome pace cars together at the 30th show.
So crazy i was just asking a forum member about the fate of this car the other day ! Your ears must have been burning.
I am surprised nobody has asked yet, but since the car is in need of a repaint, do you plan to possibly pull molds of the nose or any other body panels ? Seems to be a lot of intrest ?
I am guessing you plan to repaint it red ?
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11:38 PM
RAREW66 Member
Posts: 1119 From: Davenport, IA USA Registered: Jun 2001
The wheels are the original wheels. They are Remotec wheels, 16x 7 in the front and 16x 8 in the back. I have a brand new set in the box that never had a tire mounted on them. Doug Kinney of Fiero warehouse happened to have them left over from the IRM stock he had. So, the missing caps are not an issue.
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11:42 PM
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System Bot
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
I think you're thinking of the notchie to fast back conversion. Doesn't include anything other then the windows and even that doesn't look right.
Thats what i was talking about,. but with a little glass work it could be made to look like these.. personaly i dont like the back end of them but i wouldent kick it out of my gargae for it.
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01:53 AM
Australian Member
Posts: 4701 From: Sydney Australia Registered: Sep 2004
One thing to pass along. I have been around this car since back in the 80's an know a lot about this car. Infact I may have been where Fred learned about the car. I remeber sitting in this car at Mid Ohio in 1985 and getting a run down about it.
This is the Red car that may not mean much to most but the Red car was special. It was the most powerful and the first of the 6 car built. It had more one off parts and was also used as the Pace car at seveal CART Indy Car events.
This car needs to be restored back to the original red and trim. This is not just any custom Fiero but it is a Fiero that has a great documented history and it originality and story need to be kept in place.
It is amazing this car has survived and is still restorable. I am very glad Fred has this car and know he will do what ever he can to make this car as it was the day it was finished by Style Auto and GM.
We Fred there are Three more do you think we have a chance to fine them? LOL!
Note the door decals say "Challenge Cup Series". I have yet to discover why that was.
I got to thinking a bit, and this was a Pace Car for the Indycar Series at the time correct? Wasn't there a significant feud even during the 80's between USAC and CART? I wonder if the 'Challenge Series' was another proposed spin-off type of competition, since USAC sanctioned many of the open wheel races at the time but many of the teams were CART teams. Potentially somebody working at Indy might know about that?... ...
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07:48 AM
blakeinspace Member
Posts: 5923 From: Fort Worth, Texas Registered: Dec 2001
Engine Bay: It is a huge tangle of messin around. The car quit running sometime in the 90's and the school's solution was to add the aftermarket ACCEL ECM donated by Summit to just run the car. All of the turbo control was eliminated at that point. The engine bay is the area that degraded the most on the car. The school indicated that the engine work was done by Lingenfelter, but my research indicates that it was done by Concept Automotive in Plymouth MI in conjunction with GM. Like I said before, the research continues until I find the person who actually did the work. The trackside brochure on the car claims that the engine produces 200 HP at 11 psi of boost.
The intercooler is tucked under the left engine grate supplied by a blower fan which in turn is fed by functional quarter window ducting.
One of the differences in this car versus the other five is that there is no small quarter window. What is decieving to the eye is that the rear quarter buttresses are cast as part of the rear clip and painted to look like there are quarter windows like on a stock Fiero.
The turbo is supposed to by a Mitsubishi TD-05. It is tucked over the top of the transmission case.
The air cleaner in the trunk ducted to the side of the trunk where the original V-6 blower assembly was.
The trunk is full of stuff. Dual Batteries, fire suppression, all original to the car when it was new.
The front compartment remains as it did originally. The fuel bladder was made by Don Allen at Gasoline Alley in Grants Pass OR. The bladder was originally designed for the three real Indy Fiero Pace Cars, but were added to the GTP cars after they were built. The six cars had them added all at the same time. PPG realized that there was one in the Purple/White Indy Pace Car and felt that it was a good idea for weight distribution over the front wheels.
As Scott stated, this car is the most significant of the six and needs to be restored to exactly what it was in 1987. I am looking forward to making this (dare I say "RARE" on the forum) car a museum piece.
Pulling molds off the body has been kicked around for over five years. I have discussed the issue with Doug at Fiero Warehouse in great detail. So far, I have not seen enough incentive to make it worth my time. If you study the car next to a stock Fiero, you soon discover that in order to make the front fascia look right, you would need the fenders, and then the front would look out of proportion to the rear and the back would need to modified also. So, I can see where the project would turn in to a complete body kit. Plus, there is the actual "buy" versus "interested" factor that this forum is famous for. I have watched the kit car market since the Fiero was new and found that the success rate is really low and now that the supply and demand is diminishing it makes it hard to dive in to making body kits. For now, the restoration and preservation of the cars is a more important focus for me. Maybe someday I might win the lottery or have that investor where money is no object to duplicate these.
If I may ask - and falling into that category of interested party - the body pieces that are primarily different are the nose, front fenders, rear clip assembly, and rear decklid and engine vents correct? The rear fascia looks to be a standard ribbed aero fascia (I cannot tell if the 'PONTIAC' is embedded into it) and the rest of the car is typical notchback ribbed molding car. Is this correct? I can understand the hesitation from a collectability stand point to not reproduce the panels, as you now have all the current existing cars that remain.
This is going to be one of the better projects on Pennocks to keep an eye on. Restoring this car will be a real testament to what a dedicated Fiero owner can accomplish.
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12:57 PM
RAREW66 Member
Posts: 1119 From: Davenport, IA USA Registered: Jun 2001
The hood, roof panel, door skins and rear fascia are stock. The donor cars donated by GM were 85 GT's. So, the front fascia, front air dam filler, front fenders, rockers and door ground effects, lower rear quarters, rear clip, rear decklid, rear decklid vents, wheel house liners are all new to the design. This artist drawing basically shows the new components that C+F Manufacturing made to complete the cars. There are numerous small detail items needed to complete a kit like the fascia grills, road light brackets body mounting brackets, filler for the upper trunk area, ect. The other issue would be adapting a fiberglass part to fit due to the thickness of the composite material used. The rear decklid is nearly an inch thick in areas.
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01:47 PM
css9450 Member
Posts: 5426 From: Glen Ellyn, Illinois, USA Registered: Nov 2002
As Scott stated, this car is the most significant of the six and needs to be restored to exactly what it was in 1987. I am looking forward to making this (dare I say "RARE" on the forum) car a museum piece.
Awww, man, you could chop the top, throw in an LS-series V8 and paint it something KEWL!
Just kidding of course. It'll be an amazing car, fully stock. Congrats on the new project!
Best place for her.
That's awesome Fred!
