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Anyone ever converted a Fiero to paddle shifting? by greenfiero1986
Started on: 06-21-2011 06:14 PM
Replies: 21
Last post by: MountainHiBlue87GT on 06-27-2011 06:14 PM
greenfiero1986
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Report this Post06-21-2011 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for greenfiero1986Click Here to Email greenfiero1986Send a Private Message to greenfiero1986Direct Link to This Post
Just something different I don't think I have seen.
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Sourmug
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Report this Post06-21-2011 06:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SourmugSend a Private Message to SourmugDirect Link to This Post
Yes, I believe Dogcreek has paddle shifters:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000115.html
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87antuzzi
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Report this Post06-21-2011 06:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziDirect Link to This Post
There are a few. I know the 4t65hd-(e)? trans will do tap shift. I will try to find pics
Ahh the 4t65e http://www.gmtuners.com/LS4/swap12.htm
and
Here is where it was sold
http://fastfieros.com/catalog.htm#Featured

[This message has been edited by 87antuzzi (edited 06-21-2011).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post06-21-2011 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
I recomend you spend some time driving one first. It is a neat gimick that wears off. I have them in the GTP and Malibu. They are good in the snow and in the mountains for engine braking but they really kind of boring after the neat factor wears off.

It is one of those things if it is on the car fine but I would have hated to spend a lot of money and time putting it in a car.

If you plan to do one use the 6 speed, The extra gears make it more fun and it is stronger than the 4 speed.
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Dogcreek
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Report this Post06-21-2011 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekDirect Link to This Post
Attached to the factory GXP column...



Jeff

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dratts
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Report this Post06-21-2011 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
Ryan Hess had a tap shift in his n* fiero. He used the 4t80e transaxle and his own controller. I just couldn't see using an automatic stick in my replicas center console and the car that I replicated comes with either a six speed stick shift or paddle shifters. Mine isn't done yet, but it will have them when it's finished.
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post06-21-2011 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

I recomend you spend some time driving one first. It is a neat gimick that wears off. I have them in the GTP and Malibu. They are good in the snow and in the mountains for engine braking but they really kind of boring after the neat factor wears off.

It is one of those things if it is on the car fine but I would have hated to spend a lot of money and time putting it in a car.

If you plan to do one use the 6 speed, The extra gears make it more fun and it is stronger than the 4 speed.


AGREED..Wife has it in here G6..Played with it a few times and that is it....Nothing great about it...Just a neat feature to show off with no real purpose.....
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dratts
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Report this Post06-21-2011 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
Ryan Hess had a tap shift in his n* fiero. He used the 4t80e transaxle and his own controller. I just couldn't see using an automatic stick in my replicas center console and the car that I replicated comes with either a six speed stick shift or paddle shifters. Mine isn't done yet, but it will have them when it's finished.
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dratts
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Report this Post06-21-2011 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post

dratts

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Member since Apr 2001
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dratts:

I tried to clear my accidental double post and ended up with a triple post. Sorry about that. I think that you could use a tranny controller on the six speed ( you're talking about the automatic right?) but I don't think there are a lot of them out there yet.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 06-21-2011).]

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CowsPatoot
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Report this Post06-21-2011 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CowsPatootClick Here to visit CowsPatoot's HomePageSend a Private Message to CowsPatootDirect Link to This Post
I notice the people saying there is no point don't live near twisty mountain roads. In a straight line, you are correct, the computer can determine the best shift point as well as I can...but when I really get into the twisties, I can definitely out-think the computer. A complete automatic in the twisties will burn up the tranny with the constant upshifting and downshifting....and can get dangerous if it shifts when you don't expect it. If I were going to build an auto, I wouldn't consider not having the tapshift.

Edit: I wouldn't consider not having the tapshift or some other type of manual control of the transmission, that would be programmed to NOT allow the computer to override my decision.

[This message has been edited by CowsPatoot (edited 06-21-2011).]

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dratts
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Report this Post06-21-2011 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dratts:

I tried to clear my accidental double post and ended up with a triple post. Sorry about that. I think that you could use a tranny controller on the six speed ( you're talking about the automatic right?) but I don't think there are a lot of them out there yet.
I know that the six speed auto has a higher torque rating than the 4t65ehd, but can it be built like the for speed? The 4t65ehd has been built to handle over 1000hp.


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Report this Post06-21-2011 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CowsPatoot:

I notice the people saying there is no point don't live near twisty mountain roads. In a straight line, you are correct, the computer can determine the best shift point as well as I can...but when I really get into the twisties, I can definitely out-think the computer. A complete automatic in the twisties will burn up the tranny with the constant upshifting and downshifting....and can get dangerous if it shifts when you don't expect it. If I were going to build an auto, I wouldn't consider not having the tapshift.

Edit: I wouldn't consider not having the tapshift or some other type of manual control of the transmission, that would be programmed to NOT allow the computer to override my decision.



When needed you can just shift the auto trans with the shifter...I do it all the time when driving and when running the twisties...Just like having a manual with the worry....I can control the shift points but the up/down of the shifter....

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Australian
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Report this Post06-23-2011 04:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
Not to knock anyone as good work to all that have done this mod. I personally have never really used one long enough to make any judgement as they still run as an automatic but from what i understand from others opinions regarding paddle shifts is there is really not much difference other than comfort with speed between a 5-6 speed and paddle shift and a regular automatic. What do you guys think that are using them? I am liking the idea of being able to drop down gears and up in an automatic but are these practical or do they eat up talk converters as you would shifting up and down as most auto transmissions would fail after time is it best left for those over taking moments will you kill it using it all the time?
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hyperv6
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Report this Post06-23-2011 06:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
The fact is the tranny is not going to burn up and it will shift just fine on it's own as they have doing this for years and GM has the best trannys on the market.

But please note as a Comp G GTP owner it is well know to many GTP owners that some people have had issues with the tranny that have used these paddles a lot. GM for the most is lucky most people seldom use them. I have not seen the same issue on the 6 speed.

The fact is most people have know idea where their power bands are unless they built the engine and even then some don't. If you do not know then odds are you are getting little advantage as the tranny does know and makes good use of it. How many here have really ever had a auto not shift down on a hill or up shift on the highway when needed?

Cars like the Itallia and others that have paddle shifters are semi automatics and for the most more a direct drive with servo's that shift the car. Many even still have a clutch pedal to move away from a stop.

All GM did was pretty much put the paddles on a normal automatic. The operation of the transmission is not really much different than the slap sticks some cars have or just pulling the car down in gear.

I just find it nice in the mountains to not have to take the hands off the wheel to use engine braking on long grades and not have to cook the brakes.

There is noting wrong with these paddles if you want them. They have a cool look advantage but to be honest there is really little performance advantage. If you really want the look and feature they are worth the install but I would advise one to spend a little time with them before the install as you may find the money better spent elsewhere after living with them for a while.

Note too if you plan to do the 6 speed I would find a place for a indicator of what gear you are in. The 4 speed you can see and count the shifts. With the six speed often it is so smooth you can not feal them. I have a 3.6 DOHC V6 in the Malibu with the six speed. Often when I pull down in gear I find I am 2-3 gears higher than I thought. The six is a very smooth and great operating transmission. If anything I would recomend anyone doing a swap to consider the newer trannys as they are so much better than the 4 speeds in smoothness and durability.

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dratts
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Report this Post06-23-2011 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
I think that the six speed auto would probably be fine with stock hp engines. I would like to know if parts are available to beef it for 600 hp or more. The four speed does have heavy duty parts available.
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rjblaze
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Report this Post06-23-2011 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeDirect Link to This Post
I am also interested in this mod as I have a control box / wiring assembly / indicator set from Ryan Hess and it does require some sort of push-button / paddle set up to actually shift the tranny. The instructions state that you put the original shifter in a gear ( let's say OD on the 4T60(65) -e) and then you have to manually shift up / down thru the gears as you would with a regular manual.......basically a "manual" automatic? At least that is the way I understand the instructions I received. Does someone else know this controller better.....am I off base? Will it burn up the tranny if held in one gear too long? Not trying to steal the thread here, just trying to find out the same sort of info.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post06-23-2011 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaDirect Link to This Post
We have an Audi A6 S Line with tap shift. I use it every time that I get in the car. I prefer to adjust my own RPMs when ascending, or descending the mountains. Even our old Mazda 6 had a sport shift option. I prefer to use engine braking when driving down hill. And that is about 50% of the time in this neck of the woods.

Tony

If there are any questions about tap shifting, I suggest that you contact Fieroking. He has down several, and has more on the way. Dratts and Dogcreek both have them in their perspective Ls4s, it is just that Dratts has a turbo attached to the end of his, along with a sweet Murci' body, that he needs to take pictures of for the forum. Or perhaps he needs to make a trip out here to Spokane for lunch one day. (Hint, hint.)
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joshua riedl
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Report this Post06-23-2011 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlDirect Link to This Post

I found TAP shift to be easier. I tried a couple different paddles and couldn't make it work without spending big money. My shifter is from a cadillac and was not an easy fit. My setup is also full manual. I have grown to really like it because I can keep it in the desired gear without any hunting.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post06-25-2011 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
Most tap shift setups do not properly use overrun, so there is no engine braking available...

Secondly, you really are only using 2 gears at any time the car is moving in most automatics.... 2nd or 3rd... Just use the shifter and you can even gain back the overrun feature.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post06-26-2011 08:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Most tap shift setups do not properly use overrun, so there is no engine braking available...

Secondly, you really are only using 2 gears at any time the car is moving in most automatics.... 2nd or 3rd... Just use the shifter and you can even gain back the overrun feature.


The GM systems all will pull down in gear for engine braking but it will not up shift or down shift if you are past the proper RPM to do it. This will prevent tranny damage or engine damage. My will ding also if it is out of range.

But paddle shift and tap shift is really not anyting more than a just pulling a normal shifter in 1-2-3 D. These are not Ferrari systems. Tap shift is nothing much more than what GM offered witht he duel gate Hust in the 60's.

There really is no real world performance gain other than having you ands on the wheel. The GTP Comp G wheel paddles are up on the wheel a little far and you need longer thumbs or larger hands. The Malibu is closer and smaller. It has the pads also on the back to dowm shift. It is more comfortable. You can also get a Pontiac center for the Chevy wheel as the G 6 used the same style wheel with out the shifter.

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Report this Post06-27-2011 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsDirect Link to This Post
Loyde of FastFieros in the Dallas area built one a few years ago.It may still be on his projects pages.

Nelson
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MountainHiBlue87GT
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Report this Post06-27-2011 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MountainHiBlue87GTSend a Private Message to MountainHiBlue87GTDirect Link to This Post
Folks:

Here are some pictures of something West Coast Fiero did for me back in February 2006.





This was done when we had the turbo 3.4 DOHC Chevy mated to a 4T80E in my car.

Some comments:

- The set up got a lot of attention.
- The steering wheel was too small for a street car and square steering wheels are no good on the street, but this led to the development of WCF's first power steering conversion.
- One thing I didn't like, was the fact that you can only really shift the car when you're going straight forward because the paddles can be very hard to reach in a hard turn and impossible to reach in a full turn, but then again why would you shift in a corner.
- We had to have an additional controller to make the radio controlled shifter by Twist Machine work with the transmission.
- This was probably one of the first paddle shifters in a Fiero and certainly the first attached to aturbo 3.4/4T80E.

Regards,

David

PS: You have to have a Tap Shift transmission whch has different shift solenoids if you want the GTP tapshift to work in a Fiero; it also requires a TAP shift PCM and BCM as far as I know.

------------------
Metallic Blue/Silver 1987 Fiero GT - 2006 3800 Series III Drive by Wire; Ported & Polished by TrippleEdge; 1.7 Yella Terra Full Roller Rockers; VS Cam; Tuning by Darth; WCF CAI & 1 5/8 Stainless Headers, 3" Exhaust, Power Steering & Much More; MSD Coils & Wires; Porsche (Brembo) Calipers on 13" Viper Rotors; 18X8 TSW Indy Wheels; Paint by Phoenix Auto in California City.

[This message has been edited by MountainHiBlue87GT (edited 06-27-2011).]

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