So a brand new Cayman S parked next to my 88 Formula today, as we were leaving I complimented him on his car. He tried real hard to be pleasant and said my car has nice lines but didn't they have oil volume problems? i said no, that was the first year wiring harness was to close to the exhaust manifold and caused fires, but they straightened that out, It gave them a bad Rap. He replies, "well, you've gotta start some where."

I'm sorry but I love my fiero and it's the end! not the beginning. I wanted so bad to put him to shame by showing him what a 23 year old car could really do. People like him is why im building my SC GT.

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Red 88 Formula 3.4 pr 4 speed automatic
Black 86 GT 3800 SC automatic swap in progress

The 84's did have oil volume problems. The dipstick was not right from the factory and people would not put enough oil in the. They would throw a rod and the car would burn to the ground. If I had a dollar every time someone bagged on the fiero I would have about 10 dollars. Its part of owning the car.

There was a problem with the wire harness too wasn't there? I didn't know that about the oil.

Only 10 Antuzzi? jeez at that rate I could redo my whole car with Poly bushings ^_^ People rag on the Fiero. It's just a fact but I think after having the Fiero in the shop for the past couple months people have really started to take a shine to it.

quote Originally posted by hercimer01: There was a problem with the wire harness too wasn't there? I didn't know that about the oil.

The harness was different but I dont think it attested to any of the fire problems they had.

as for the porsche owner.... Typical. Thats what i cant stand about some European car owners. They walk around all high and mighty with there heads held high over there expensive piece of machinery.... I love putting them to shame with my formula though...... no better feeling.

I guess the cayman makes a good starter too. Hey isn't that a 911 oh thats right it is a boxster with a roof.
I would have snubbed him the same.

quote Originally posted by Australian: I guess the cayman makes a good starter too. Hey isn't that a 911 oh thats right it is a boxster with a roof. I would have snubbed him the same.

Haaaahahahaha, it's funny 'cause it's true! It's the awkward middle child designed entirely on paper to fill a gap in a product line...

I agree with what`s been said above, but I will say the Caymen may be a vehicle to fill in a gap but it`s a fast filler.
When I had my 85 GT it had a gas pedal that would slightly stick, and one time from a light when I took off it kind of jumped and I guess the guy next to me in the Caymen thought I was trying to get the jump on him.
He took off and he was gone.
Fast vehicle.

The issue with the 4 cyl was that the original engines ('84) used 3 quarts of oil from the factory. As part of a recall, GM changed the dipstick and the oil filter, then increased the capacity to 4 quarts. The engine fires were due to low quality rods breaking through the block and spilling oil on the cat. converter. This rod problem was an issue for many 2.5L engines at the time, not just Fieros. GM replaced the problem engines in Fieros and other non-Fiero GM cars.

Wiring was not an issue for fire, but wires could melt and cause other problems. Wires were wrapped with heat reflective tape.

If you spent 15 times what the guy parked next to you paid for his car you would have to say something to make yourself feel better too! Especially when the better car was the one you were driving! Okay, a cayman is a nice car but I would take the Formula everyday, by choice, and twice on Sundays. Maybe he meant you have to start with an entry level sports car and work your way up to the Cayman...just a thought.

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 05-17-2011).]

I must be alone here, because what he said doesn't sound all that bad to me. Asking about the fire/oil/rod problems is common because they got so much press and the reputation stuck. I would not be offended by that. He also gave it a compliment saying it had nice lines, and finished by saying it is a good starter.

Yeah, that could be a little arrogant coming from a Cayman owner. Then again, the Cayman's are very good performing sports cars, and IMO look very good too. They also might not be a Porsche 911, but a lot of the media reviews of the Cayman at it's introduction basically thought it was a better car dynamically than a 911, and as such Porsche wasn't putting in higher power engines to prevent it from canabalizing 911 sales because the 911 is "sacred."

I would not take too big of a burn. Just remember, he has a note on a $50K car. You don't!

I would also be inclined to think when he said "gotta start somewhere" he was refering to Pontiac making a Sports car.That had problems but they fixed it but by that time it already got a bad rap. I beleive that was probably his context. As in There are always trial and errors in the first attempt. I do not believe he was refering to you as in "you gotta start somewhere with whatever sports car".

quote Originally posted by bristowb: I would also be inclined to think when he said "gotta start somewhere" he was refering to Pontiac making a Sports car.That had problems but they fixed it but by that time it already got a bad rap. I beleive that was probably his context. As in There are always trial and errors in the first attempt. I do not believe he was refering to you as in "you gotta start somewhere with whatever sports car".

That's how I read the OP too. But I'm sure there were more context clues in the real situation.

But yeah, they did have to start somewhere with the 84, and its a shame that public opinion couldn't be swayed by 88.

quote Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: That's how I read the OP too. But I'm sure there were more context clues in the real situation. But yeah, they did have to start somewhere with the 84, and its a shame that public opinion couldn't be swayed by 88.

I think there's more to it than "public opinion" given the 88s still exceeded GM sales forecasts.

But also, we're talking about a Cayman owner here. It's like the ugliest Porsche ever.

I wouldn't worry about getting snubbed by a Porsche driver; then again, I wouldn't have said anything to him in the first place. Nothing says "I'm not impressed by your $50K car" like completely ignoring him and his car.

This is why I tend not to talk to people. I so rarely like what comes out of their mouth.

If someone compliments the car, "cool" I guess... but if someone said someting stupid, I don't really give 2 craps.

I like it, that's all I care about.

Porsche Cayman, Funny thing is that is my wife's new Favorite car.... She is a die hard 911 junkie and I am quite sure if we could sell our house and everything we own she would buy one.. However since we got the fiero GT she is starting to turn a bit. I think she sees how many people stare and give thumbs up and compliments to our little two seater here and then she sees what a well build GT can look like and even more importantly RUN like with say a 3800SC or turbo. THe first car I ever bought for her was a 1986 Mercury Capri RS tee top 5.0 and she has been a speed demon ever since then. This past weekends twisty ride thru the mountains gave her a little idea how good a fiero can be and while I think she still would want a porsche she MAY be changing her mind about the cars. She wants her own GT now and I am cool with that. At least THIS is a car I can afford. Hell that guy in the Cayman probably pays more in Monthly car payments than I paid for my whole car. Once my GT is painted all nice and finished the way I want it I seriously doubt I would trade it for anything short of a ferrari or Lambo!! I just love the way the car looks.... Riding behind Ax's GORGEOUS original 88 black GT tee tops was cool coming back from Cades Cove because I got to see what the car looks like from behind on twistie roads. It is just a really sweet looking car from all angles. Pontiac may not have put the heart into the engine bay it needed but they sure did their homework on the body. It just turns heads everywhere it goes. What is really impressive to me is the impression I get from younger guys in tuner cars. Most give me the thumbs up or smile and wave. There is of course the occasional punk but ya can't please everyone right... I love my little GT and now I need to find another one for the wifey!! peace

Pete

I now have a stock bodied fiero along with the 355 bodied and the murcielago bodied and a fiero roadster. They're all great. The stock body is fieroaddictions turbo N* and is my sleeper. The roadster gets a lot of thumbs up and it is fun driving the Murci that everyone thinks is $200,000 worth of car. They're all good. Two fiero body's and two replica body's. One of the main attractions of the fiero to me is all the engine options available. In a lot of ways I think that the fiero is a modern day 32 ford. A light car that can be hotrodded in the traditional way. It would be fun to park my Murci next to the cayman and then fire fire it up. Right now it has a turboed ls4 running through one cat and sounds pretty mean. I like caymans but I'm gonna be a fiero guy til the day I die

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: I must be alone here, because what he said doesn't sound all that bad to me. Asking about the fire/oil/rod problems is common because they got so much press and the reputation stuck. I would not be offended by that. He also gave it a compliment saying it had nice lines, and finished by saying it is a good starter. Yeah, that could be a little arrogant coming from a Cayman owner. Then again, the Cayman's are very good performing sports cars, and IMO look very good too. They also might not be a Porsche 911, but a lot of the media reviews of the Cayman at it's introduction basically thought it was a better car dynamically than a 911, and as such Porsche wasn't putting in higher power engines to prevent it from canabalizing 911 sales because the 911 is "sacred." I would not take too big of a burn. Just remember, he has a note on a $50K car. You don't!

That's how I read it. Hard to tell without hearing his tone of voice, but it sounds like the Cayman owner was trying to be nice.
A new Cayman S starts at $62,100, and you're comparing your 23 year old car that costs about the same as a couple sets of tires for his car.

Tell him hes got a cute volkwagen beetle

They get mad when you call there Porsche's that

You think you were snubbed badly?
That's nothing my friend!
You ought to see what some Porsche owners do to each other.
I went to a Porsche "Open House" event and one of the guys there
I was talking to (who owns a 928) said some of the 911 guys wont
even talk to the 928 guys. (because of the obvious difference in
technologies between the two cars)

I was really surprised at this comment as I thought all Porsche owners
were part of an "elite" group and would have much in common and much
respect for each other. My Porsche mystique "bubble" has burst.

Kit

[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 05-17-2011).]

People never talk to me because of the cars I own

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1984 Pontiac Fiero SE

1980 Porsche 928
1974 Mercedes 450 SL

quote Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: ...one of the guys there I was talking to (who owns a 928) said some of the 911 guys wont even talk to the 928 guys.

LOL Nothing like snobbishness within the same car brand.

Once in a while, I check out the air-cooled VW forum (samba.com). Its neat to see some of the restorations and rebuildings of some pretty rudimentary but ingenious engineering. But even among that group, there are some who feel certain generations of VWs are "not worthy", and aren't shy about saying so. Super Beetles, in particular. But some don't even like the 68+ models with their 4-lug wheels and bigger taillights. Weird group.

quote Originally posted by hercimer01: There was a problem with the wire harness too wasn't there? I didn't know that about the oil.

The problem with the wire harness is that it had to be re-done if you wanted to put anything other than a 4-cylinder engine in the car.

All you have to say is the same thing i tell a-holes with nicer cars... "My Fiero may be old but yours will be in a junk yard at it's age." OR "Your just mad that i get better gas mileage then you AND it's 1/64th what yours cost!"

Side note: I remembered reading this post and i couldn't help myself. Today after work on my way home i tormented a Cayman S through the twistys. Kept riding is rear revving the motor. He pulled over then tried to catch me. Too many sharp turns... he had no chance on that road.

quote Originally posted by Finally_Mine_86_GT: Side note: I remembered reading this post and i couldn't help myself. Today after work on my way home i tormented a Cayman S through the twistys. Kept riding is rear revving the motor. He pulled over then tried to catch me. Too many sharp turns... he had no chance on that road.

He obviously just had no idea how to drive.

quote Originally posted by dobey: He obviously just had no idea how to drive.

knuckle driver

WOW. I opened up a can of worms here. He was definitely struggling to find any thing to say to me. I asked about him today at work and they said he is a Billionaire. At least he talked to me and lets me work on his "own jet airplane" I guess.

hercimer01...
Ok...LaFierte (my son) and me were driving northbound on I-35 north of Moose Lake, Mn fall before last. Minding the speed limit in a black 88 Mera. Yes, it is badged up with Ferrari stuff, but that's the way I bought it. So this new Porsche Caymen S comes up fast in the left lane and then hits the brakes to run even with us. A woman with huge sunglasses on her face is looking over the Mera and then she starts to speed up and slow down suddenly like she wants to race.
Let's face it. A stock 2.8 isn't all that responsive, but I pushed it up just a little and she took off like a bat out of Helsinki (do they even have bats there?). We slow back down to the speed limit. After going over the next hill, we see bright blue and red lights in pursuit of the same Porsche. So we politely moved over to the left lane and waved when we went past where she had just been pulled over by the state highway patrol.
Fast and snobby just gets people into trouble.

Drive your Fieros with PRIDE!

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Gold '87 GT auto, Black '86 GT 4spd, Black '87 GT 5spd, Black '88 Mera #8085,' 64 Stingray coupe, '01 Corvette coupe, '03 Corvette coupe & caretaker of son's Yellow '87 GT, & Other son's Red '86 GT,
General tinkerer and doer of mechanical deeds

911 , 996 and their variants are the only real Porsches. All the rest are just people movers like every other overpriced make....from the Boxster to the Cayenne SUV with a Porsche badge stuck on. JMHO.

Studies have found that when people pay more for a bad wine or meal, they are more likely to report that it was tasty, compared with people who paid less for the exact same crappy dinner or drink. No one wants to be a sucker.

quote Originally posted by TopNotch: The problem with the wire harness is that it had to be re-done if you wanted to put anything other than a 4-cylinder engine in the car.

I have a '86 4cyl that caught fire. The O2 sensor was replaced and the wire rubbed against the cracked manifold. Eventually the insulation wore off and started sparking. I believe this grounding caused the engine to run a little rich and then ignited the exhaust.

The replacement probably had the wrong length of wire.

quote Originally posted by GMplastic: hercimer01... Ok...LaFierte (my son) and me were driving northbound on I-35 north of Moose Lake, Mn fall before last. Minding the speed limit in a black 88 Mera. Yes, it is badged up with Ferrari stuff, but that's the way I bought it. So this new Porsche Caymen S comes up fast in the left lane and then hits the brakes to run even with us. A woman with huge sunglasses on her face is looking over the Mera and then she starts to speed up and slow down suddenly like she wants to race. Let's face it. A stock 2.8 isn't all that responsive, but I pushed it up just a little and she took off like a bat out of Helsinki (do they even have bats there?). We slow back down to the speed limit. After going over the next hill, we see bright blue and red lights in pursuit of the same Porsche. So we politely moved over to the left lane and waved when we went past where she had just been pulled over by the state highway patrol. Fast and snobby just gets people into trouble. Drive your Fieros with PRIDE!

I had a simular instance,on the open road traveling to Vegas,Cruzeing along at a spirited 75mph,a brand new Camaro (new but has the old classic camaro styleing) he passes me doing 90mph, about 15 minutes later I see him pulled over on the side of the road by 2 California Highway patroll officers.I wont get suckerd into these games people play.

quote Originally posted by GMplastic: hercimer01... Ok...LaFierte (my son) and me were driving northbound on I-35 north of Moose Lake, Mn fall before last. Minding the speed limit in a black 88 Mera. Yes, it is badged up with Ferrari stuff, but that's the way I bought it. So this new Porsche Caymen S comes up fast in the left lane and then hits the brakes to run even with us. A woman with huge sunglasses on her face is looking over the Mera and then she starts to speed up and slow down suddenly like she wants to race. Let's face it. A stock 2.8 isn't all that responsive, but I pushed it up just a little and she took off like a bat out of Helsinki (do they even have bats there?). We slow back down to the speed limit. After going over the next hill, we see bright blue and red lights in pursuit of the same Porsche. So we politely moved over to the left lane and waved when we went past where she had just been pulled over by the state highway patrol. Fast and snobby just gets people into trouble. Drive your Fieros with PRIDE!

i have people get up next to me and hit the gas to show they want to race pretty much every other time i go for a highway cruise. one time somebody got up next to me when i was just cruising in 5th gear in traffic and they had about 50 feet till the car in front of them so they floored it and the light turned red then they locked up their brakes and just about hit the other car. i dont see how people could be dumb enough to try and race someone in traffic or even on a clear highway that has a possibly of cops on the side of the road.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: 911 , 996 and their variants are the only real Porsches. All the rest are just people movers like every other overpriced make....from the Boxster to the Cayenne SUV with a Porsche badge stuck on. JMHO.

I don't think they all have to be based on the Beetle to be a "real" Porsche.

Just my opinion Formula. A real Porsche has RWD, rear air cooled motor. Turbo or twin turbos are an option. All the rest are pretenders. 928 is the closest that dont meet those requirements and like already said, theyre generally snubbed too. There is not another Porsche id even consider buying for any price. I worked on a ton of them for dealers and individuals from 956 bathtubs to Boxster Ss. The old Spyder was kinda cool though (Deans death car).

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Just my opinion Formula. A real Porsche has RWD, rear air cooled motor. Turbo or twin turbos are an option. All the rest are pretenders.

By that definition, there has not been a "real" Porsche in a few decades...

[This message has been edited by skuzzbomer (edited 05-19-2011).]

911 variants, 911-2, 993, 996............. I did make an error, even though its same layout and look. I really didnt realize they dropped the air cooled system for a water cooled in the 90s. It still the same platform (RWD, engine over rear axles) as the early 60s. They just made the flat 6 into a water cooled one with a radiator. Sorry about that. I did a LOT of Porsches in my shop, but never any mechanical work. Barely ever even opened the engine compartment so I missed that memo.