Some guy who "watches" Top Gear saw me lurking the forums in my class and was like, "Is that a Fiero... blah blah blah... how much do they cost?"
In reply I was like "yeah blah blah blah You can find a really nice one from anywhere between 2-6K bucks"
"You should definitely get a Porsche 914 then, they are so much faster and about the same price blah blah blah... I had one blah blah blah the best year was 1974 blah blah"

At this point I was like don't talk to me about cars please... It got me thinking why the Fiero is a better car, disregarding anything performance, because I wasn't about to argue the performance differences of a car I didn't really know. So here is a list of reasons the Fiero is better to own:
Domestic

Abundance of parts
base options (4 disc brakes... etc...)
variability of models, mods, engines
really cheap to drive (If you don't hot-rod it)
Abundance of knowledge that is documented (thats you guys)

What else can I throw at this punk?

The Fiero is the only American mid-engined two seater ever built. You said abundance of parts but you forgot the low cost of the parts, at least compared to Porsche parts.

I read that those 914s rust apart if you look at them wrong. 944s were more direct competitors to our cars in a way, but overall the Fiero has more value for similar performance... Even 944 guys agree on that.

The 914 was created as a replacement for the VW Karmann Ghia. It was actually half produced by VW (if you put a picture of a Karmann Ghia and a 914 side-by-side, you'll see they look VERY similar).

The only reason Porsche enthusiasts are so adamant about the car is not only it's scarcity, but also it's ability to be readily modified in ways that can still compete in many road and auto-x events without massive changes in classes. Many 914's have been chopped up or heavily modified for track usage, so it's beginning to put well-preserved original examples in a position to see collectability.

I would say that rust and well... they are dated in design and creature comforts.

The 914 is a glorified VW, but they are still neat. I wouldn't mind having one. But saying stock for stock that it's faster than a Fiero is a bit off, except for maybe vs. a Duke. But then I'd think they'd be pretty close. Those air cooled boxer engines are noisy, but they don't exactly make lots of power.

Way back in the 80's prior to the Fiero I had a 1975 914-4 as a daily driver and enjoyed the heck out of it. It was a somewhat rust free car except in the roof/body line area. Typical place to rust. Frame rails were in excellent condition also. Wife and a family came along and a two seat car was not happening so I had it stored in my garage for a few years while I toyed with the idea of restoring it.

Along came an 84 SE I bought as a daily driver (around 100miles a day) once I had approval from the "war department" (wife) to get a two seater again, sometime around 90? Could not afford to restore the 914 but the SE was a good daily commuter car I drove the heck out of that car, parts were easy to find unlike the 914 and the SE felt about the same power but the 914 had a 5 speed and the SE was auto.

I sold the 914 a few years back to make room for a milling machine/lathe and figured out I really did not miss the 914 anymore having the SE, I lowered and installed poly in the SE and it handled quite nice. The SE died a few years back and daughter was going to college so no 2 seaters again for a while. 2009 I bought an 85GT 4spd (as a graduation gift to myself for daughter's college graduation) to get back into mom and I being able to enjoy a drive or take in a cruise, not that my car is in anyway a "looker", I paid about the same as what I sold the 914 for a few years earlier. I want to move the springs and poly off the SE over to the GT when I get time.

Looking back I miss the 914 and removable roof but the price of parts is way out of my league compared to Fiero parts. I also like the idea of domestic now that I am older. I must be drawn to orphan cars as the 914 was not loved by the Porsche crowd and I find the same with the Fiero but really don't care . . . I just enjoy it.

Fieros are, more compfortable, cheaper, look better, say American Pride, better on fuel, easier to repair, drive better, faster, chasis are stronger, you have a better chance of picking up a chick in a Fiero, if you drive a FIero, your not advertising, "Can't afford a 911", sound better, don't look like a boat that some wheels have been attached to, don't drive like one either, don't rust on the outside, don't require voodoo and an entire can of starter fluid to get running in the morning, don't use bicycle tires, grip better around corners, oh, and one more thing, what was that...

Oh yeah, Pontiac was not started with the help of Hilter.

-Chris

quote Originally posted by Letsbuildanexotic: Fieros are, more compfortable, cheaper, look better, say American Pride, better on fuel, easier to repair, drive better, faster, chasis are stronger, you have a better chance of picking up a chick in a Fiero, if you drive a FIero, your not advertising, "Can't afford a 911", sound better, don't look like a boat that some wheels have been attached to, don't drive like one either, don't rust on the outside, don't require voodoo and an entire can of starter fluid to get running in the morning, don't use bicycle tires, grip better around corners, oh, and one more thing, what was that... Oh yeah, Pontiac was not started with the help of Hilter. -Chris

You sound like a bitter 914 owner, or a bitter American. Neither of which are good for your health.

Thanks guys, I figured more or less I was right, but I wasn't going to talk out of my @$$ to this guy because I didn't know the details on the 914.

Thanks again,
Jesse

I remember the 914 being reffered to as the "K-Mart Porsche" back in the day

but - yes - the RRUUSSTT......

I dont doubt they are awesome little cars. But, I preffer something I can actually use. fix. drive. keep.

quote Originally posted by Letsbuildanexotic: Fieros are, more compfortable, cheaper, look better, say American Pride, better on fuel, easier to repair, drive better, faster, chasis are stronger, you have a better chance of picking up a chick in a Fiero, if you drive a FIero, your not advertising, "Can't afford a 911", sound better, don't look like a boat that some wheels have been attached to, don't drive like one either, don't rust on the outside, don't require voodoo and an entire can of starter fluid to get running in the morning, don't use bicycle tires, grip better around corners, oh, and one more thing, what was that... Oh yeah, Pontiac was not started with the help of Hilter. -Chris

Neither where Porshe or Volkswagon. But he did commision Volkswagon to create a affordable "family" car that the average German could afford.. It was the Beetle. (its still up in the air weather Hitler himself named the car or not.) Plus of course they helped make military vehicles for Hitler during the war, but GM and Ford did the same thing for the U.S. so you cant blame the company for that. So did Hitler help start the companies? No.. But he did help them make alot of money thats for sure.

You realize domestic = a bad reason to own a car right? From the 80s to...well I'd say now still...they're getting better though.

Oh and as for the Hitler remark...with out Nazi Germany the modern world would not be as " modern " as it is now...just saying.

All the above being said...I just don't like the look of porsches...and the " affordable " ones just scream " I'm too poor to buy a real porsche so I bought this " to me.

[This message has been edited by Hockaday (edited 04-21-2011).]

there was no vw factory at the time of hitler there was porsche only and he commisioned ferdinand porsche to build an afordable car for the masses the KDF vagon the company VW was built by a british officer named cambell who fell in love with the little car and decideb to convince the british goverment to rebuild the plant and have the germans build it to generate work after the war

[This message has been edited by bubbajoexxx (edited 04-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: Neither where Porshe or Volkswagon. But he did commision Volkswagon to create a affordable "family" car that the average German could afford.. It was the Beetle. (its still up in the air weather Hitler himself named the car or not.) Plus of course they helped make military vehicles for Hitler during the war, but GM and Ford did the same thing for the U.S. so you cant blame the company for that. So did Hitler help start the companies? No.. But he did help them make alot of money thats for sure.

VW DID however buy slave labor from the Nazi's and work the slaves to death in factories in order to produce these people cars.

This is one dirty little secret that VW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, and BMW would really appreciate people forgetting about.

You forget about the 914/6. This was a 914 assembled at the Porsche plant in Germany. It had a 125ps 911 carb motor in it with a 5 sp tranny. I had a 914/4 and a 914/6 my first tour in Germany 1982-1985. THe 4 was fun to drive and cheap to fix as it used the VW 411 4 cylinder motor. The 6 was faster (top speed 125-130 mph) got there a whole quicker than a Fiero and sold me on mid engine cars. I couldnt afford to bring back the 914s, but I ordered a new Fiero 2M6 in feb 1985 and still have that car. Porsche built about 3300 914/6s from 1970-1972. 914/4 were built from 1970-1975. In 1973 , Porsche built 11 916s. This was a 914 with a hardtop and a 911S motor rated at 190ps. It cost more that the 911S of that year and would outrun it. There is a 916 at Automobile Atlanta in Merrietta Ga in the showroom. It is the only 916 that was federalized and brought to this country. If you have LOTS of money, you could buy it and put any 911 motor in it and have some FUN!.

914 was a Porsche only here in the USA. I am not sure about our great friends in Canada. It was a VW everywhere else. I have owned three 914's, and they were neet little cars. But a "Porsche" in name only. The used the same VW engine as the VW van. It was called the 'suitcase' engine. Most were 1700 cc's, but towards the end they were 1800, and 2.0 ltr versions built and sold. The 2.0 was a pretty fast little car. I think I remember that all came with the electronic fuel injection. I converted all of mine to use the 2000 cc Pinto carburetors, as the VW electronic FI was very troublesome. The carb adaptor was dirt cheap, and the pinto carbs were an exact fit.

The very rare 914/6 was a car to be reckoned with. An old friend of mine in Vancouver who had been racing his whole life claimed it to be the favorite car he owned. This coming from a guy who bought a Ford 289 AC off the showroom floor in '65 and has the pics to prove it. He claimed the 289 had better weight distribution, handling, acceleration, and performance than the 427 Cobra and would have killed him had he not sold it, but still liked the 914/6 the best. Would easily outrun/outhandle anything on the road at the time (his claim). Definitely a unique car today, considered an ugly cousin by Porsche fans, and has a similar following to our Fiero. I was considering one when I found my 88 4cyl. I stand by my decision and know I made the right choice. Oh yeah, I've seen 914's with more rust that sheet metal...freakin' scary!
Rest in Peace Gary Houser.

I have to laugh at fiero owners they believe that their car was a good choice because it is mid engined but seem to want to overlook anything similar.. Fiero owners love to compare their cars to other mid engine cars then have the hyde to call other cars cheap. I got news the fiero is just as cheap if not cheaper. Accept that both cars are at the cheaper end of the scale and both will out perform other cars of same value. Both cars could be built to out perform each other. If they were racing chances are end up in same class.

quote Originally posted by Australian: I have to laugh at fiero owners they believe that their car was a good choice because it is mid engined but seem to want to overlook anything similar.. Fiero owners love to compare their cars to other mid engine cars then have the hyde to call other cars cheap. I got news the fiero is just as cheap if not cheaper. Accept that both cars are at the cheaper end of the scale and both will out perform other cars of same value. Both cars could be built to out perform each other. If they were racing chances are end up in same class.

+1

And even C5 Vettes can be nabbed pretty cheap. The C6s are even starting to come down a lot in price. Some of the parts are more expensive, but still relatively cheap.

1972 914 had the 6 rated @ 80KW - not sure what that relates to in HP but I believe it is over 110 and they only built about 3000 of them. 73 was a flat 4 cylinder with 95 HP and 74 went down to 76 HP. HP continued to drop year after year until they were discontinued. Not sure what they weighed but they were definitely lighter than the Fiero. Of course they are just like any other car - you can throw money at it and make it a screamer. There are "motor kits" out there to bring the flat 4 up to 170 plus HP and the 6 over 200 HP plus there are all the "swap" options just like the Fiero. I personally would like to build a 69 Karman Ghia with a 2180 stroker motor - shave the top and make it a Roadster?

here is a 914-6 on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...tZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

------------------
I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

quote Originally posted by katatak: 1972 914 had the 6 rated @ 80KW - not sure what that relates to in HP but I believe it is over 110 and they only built about 3000 of them. 73 was a flat 4 cylinder with 95 HP and 74 went down to 76 HP. HP continued to drop year after year until they were discontinued. Not sure what they weighed but they were definitely lighter than the Fiero. Of course they are just like any other car - you can throw money at it and make it a screamer. There are "motor kits" out there to bring the flat 4 up to 170 plus HP and the 6 over 200 HP plus there are all the "swap" options just like the Fiero. I personally would like to build a 69 Karman Ghia with a 2180 stroker motor - shave the top and make it a Roadster?

All of my 914's had the 'Targa' removeable roof section

In all fairness, any american 914 is basically 75% VW, so there isnt much of a challenge for parts in my experience with it.

Even in Germany, the poor 914 was branded with the nickname "Kartoffelwagen", (potato wagon).
Both for it's square boxy shape and for it's being slow.

quote Originally posted by mattwa: The Fiero is the only American mid-engined two seater ever built. You said abundance of parts but you forgot the low cost of the parts, at least compared to Porsche parts.

Ford GT? I know it cost 10 times as much but it was a 2 seat mid-engine American car.

quote Originally posted by Xyster: Ford GT? I know it cost 10 times as much but it was a 2 seat mid-engine American car.

I wish it was only 10 times as much. I might buy one. I paid $2500 for my Fiero GT. $25000 for a new Ford GT would be a great price.

quote Originally posted by dobey: I wish it was only 10 times as much. I might buy one. I paid $2500 for my Fiero GT. $25000 for a new Ford GT would be a great price.

I meant new to new. Wasn't a new Fiero GT $16k-ish? I heard/read most Ford GTs went in the $150k-200 despite the $140k-150 sticker.

quote Originally posted by Xyster: I meant new to new. Wasn't a new Fiero GT $16k-ish? I heard/read most Ford GTs went in the $150k-200 despite the $140k-150 sticker.

Yeah, but that doesn't count for inflation of the Fiero if it was new today. Today a new Fiero GT would probably be priced around $30K. So it would be more like 5x.

Of course, those still aren't the only two "American" mid-engine (rear-mid-rear) cars. Though the Fiero is the only major production one.
There's also the Saleen S7, the Vectors, Ultima GTM, Tesla Roadster, and Lamborghini Diablo (first came out under Chrysler ownership).
And there are a lot more concepts that never made it to production.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Yeah, but that doesn't count for inflation of the Fiero if it was new today. Today a new Fiero GT would probably be priced around $30K. So it would be more like 5x. Of course, those still aren't the only two "American" mid-engine (rear-mid-rear) cars. Though the Fiero is the only major production one. There's also the Saleen S7, the Vectors, Ultima GTM, Tesla Roadster, and Lamborghini Diablo (first came out under Chrysler ownership). And there are a lot more concepts that never made it to production.

Ok, you hate me, I get it. Now lets get back on topic. Good call on the Vector - nearly forgot about them.

I don't argue with folks when they say things like that but what you shoudl ahve asked him was if teh 914 was so great, why did he get rid of it???

I love 914s even though most Porsche owners do not consider it a true Porsche but instead a gloried VW (which I also love air cooled VWS so....) but the Fiero is head and shoulders above the 914 in quality, reliability, rust prevention, etc. Performance - I woudl choose a Fiero GT over a stock 914 personally.

Robby

quote Originally posted by Xyster: Ok, you hate me, I get it. Now lets get back on topic. Good call on the Vector - nearly forgot about them.

I still would love to have a 914. They are cool little cars.

quote Originally posted by dobey: I still would love to have a 914. They are cool little cars.

I wouldn't mind having one either, (despite it's Kartoffelwagen reputation).
My only requirement is that it is a 914-6 and not the anemic 4 cylinder version.
The 914-6 actually is a bit of fun to drive.

quote Originally posted by randye: I wouldn't mind having one either, (despite it's Kartoffelwagen reputation). My only requirement is that it is a 914-6 and not the anemic 4 cylinder version. The 914-6 actually is a bit of fun to drive.

Well, that's what engine swaps are for. I'm sure dropping one of the new Subaru boxer 4 cylinders in a 914 would be fun to drive. Sure the stock air cooled VW 4 banger wouldn't be as fun, but I don't think I'd mind it. Would still get plenty of heads turning to look at it.

NO no no......

Here ya go....

http://www.youtube.com/watc...LGsE&feature=related

That is what a 914 SHOULD look like....peace

Pete

The 914 looks like an el camino mated with a 911 and installed a tonneu cover.

[This message has been edited by Custom2M4 (edited 05-25-2011).]

I think using the mega squirt electronic fuel injection was one of the best upgrades for the 914. And still is i suppose.

I reckon y'all ain't old enough to remember the Corvair and it's sisters they were production cars
And since the concept card was played I'd like to throw in my favorite the AMX/3

On topic Porsche 914's did have a 6 cylinder option
I've seen that engine swapped into a chopped bug - pretty sweet

quote Originally posted by mattwa: The Fiero is the only American mid-engined two seater ever built. You said abundance of parts but you forgot the low cost of the parts, at least compared to Porsche parts.

1.) 1967 FORD GT
2.) 1984 PONTIAC FIERO
3.) 2000 SALEEN S7

but its the only mass produced one