Today at a red light, a two lane road that after crossing the intersection requires a merge giving exactly enough room for two cars to rip through their first two gears to see who beats the merge, I say this because it happens often many times I have witnessed it with many cars trucks and all. I never take part in this, I have never dogged my 2.5 liter engine honestly because the mounts are bad. I always grandma drove it, but took great care of it and gave her 93 all my 2 years of owning her. Bought her with 85k miles now she has 93k and running stronger than ever. It came to my surprise I actually beat an early 2000s or late 90s two door Acura TL 2.5 5 Cylinder at that merge today. And I mean I left him pretty good considering I thought I was going to lose from the start.
\
My car is by no means fast hence the reason I never even embarress myself by "racing" a single cam honda or whatever occasionally challenges me. But this TL actually challenged me and he got beat so I thought that was cool.

Tack one on for the BlacKRen

So how many Fieros do you have?

I hate my dukes. I've only been able to drive one of them once (one in my sig) and it got out accelerated by a geo metro....

------------------

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
(88 formula 3400SFI turbo) Made the kessel run in less than 12 parceks b****
(84 IMSA) garage queen
(84 base) big orange firecracker
(06 solstice) my vert Fiero

LOL I'm blessed with my duke, I want to make a video of how good it is before I take it out and drop a V6

I almost want another fiero because it would be a shame to throw out such a clean Iron Duke . In 3000 miles it burns a half quart of oil only, but I run synthetic

My 4 cyl Fiero needed to be stopped every 5 minutes to put out the fire. That's why its getting a Quad 4.

quote Originally posted by Xyster: My 4 cyl Fiero needed to be stopped every 5 minutes to put out the fire. That's why its getting a Quad 4.

I plan on eighter a quad 4 or an ecotec into my IMSa in the near future. I have a solstice with the ecotec and while its not the fastest thing in the world I'm still pretty impressed with it.

ah the iron duke (tech4).
i wanted one. keeps the weight balance more neutral.
all i have is the v6 fieros.
oh and the TL was in reverse thats why you won!

quote Originally posted by BlackGT Codde: how many cars do you have?

I have an 84 IMSA
and 84 Base model Fiero thats been a bit customized
an 88 3400 turbo formula
and a 2006 solstice.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 04-08-2011).]

I enjoy my DIS duke crate engine. I will however like the 3300 in it a bit better for a DD. I will just miss the MPG I get with it. I will end up having a 40k mile DIS duke for sale some time this summer.

To the OP- You've been throwing money and possible mileage out the window running 93 in the duke unless its not stock. Lots of people think that running higher octane gas in engines designed for 87 will add power/ prolong engine life/ and add mileage. It does more bad than good.

I've driven a 5 speed duke, and I'd honestly be scared to DD one in NYC. I can't imagine trying to get on the highway in one, well actually I can because Fieros can take turns at high speeds, but still. Passing anything with a duke, forget it lol. I found the throttle to be an on/off switch as well.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: To the OP- You've been throwing money and possible mileage out the window running 93 in the duke unless its not stock. Lots of people think that running higher octane gas in engines designed for 87 will add power/ prolong engine life/ and add mileage. It does more bad than good. I've driven a 5 speed duke, and I'd honestly be scared to DD one in NYC. I can't imagine trying to get on the highway in one, well actually I can because Fieros can take turns at high speeds, but still. Passing anything with a duke, forget it lol. I found the throttle to be an on/off switch as well.

I concur with this. There is no need to be running 93 in a duke. Its not a preformance engine and it will cause more harm than good. if anything it will be a burden on your wallet put 87 in it and you'll be fine.

Unless going for the detergents in Mobil high octane is important enough to you.

Also,
I find it humorous how some of you down play the ability of a Duke to accelerate. Some of you make it sound like it's a lawn mower engine. It is possible that a tired, high mile, poorly maintained duke is doggish, however I have seen several examples of a duke that has no problems at any gear below 5th accelerating. Though it is far from a performance engine, the duke in a Fiero is a good economy powerplant fitment. I can think of many 4 cyl cars that get less MPG and are much slower in acceleration, even new. If we were talking about a Duke that was placed in a USPS truck or an S10 or something 1k lbs heavier, I could see what you're talking about.

PK, if you truly don't know what a duke can do and aren't just talking down a good economy engine, I would be happy to whip your head back in the seat at Carlisle this year and show you how easy it is to maneuver on the highway.

That being said, of course the Duke lacks power. It gets 40mpg and 92/98 HP in top shape! But please accurately depict it when describing it's abilities or lack there of. Keep in mind that the high output L44 2.8 in the GTs is only 42 more HP with 2 extra cylinders, and an extremely aggressive cam for the engine. That is sure enough to make a significant difference but it also isn't that much in the scheme of things.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: To the OP- You've been throwing money and possible mileage out the window running 93 in the duke unless its not stock. Lots of people think that running higher octane gas in engines designed for 87 will add power/ prolong engine life/ and add mileage. It does more bad than good. I've driven a 5 speed duke, and I'd honestly be scared to DD one in NYC. I can't imagine trying to get on the highway in one, well actually I can because Fieros can take turns at high speeds, but still. Passing anything with a duke, forget it lol. I found the throttle to be an on/off switch as well.

Yup. If the vehicle is not high compression or boosted with a turbo or supercharger then anything but the cheap stuff is a waste of money. In my motorcycle it runs WORSE on premium because of the slower burn rate of 93 octane compared to the cheap stuff.

My favorite argument is "it has more additives to make it run cleaner" Nope... not really... "These days, all of the gasoline from the major gas companies contain more than enough detergents to keep your engine clean. Period." http://www.cartalk.com/cont...s/premium/myths.html for more info on what "premuim gas" really is. If you really need the detergents then 1 bottle of techron in a fiero will treat 5 tank-fulls at 2X the dosage you would ever need. That's if you really think you need that. modern fuel filters do a fantastic job, and honestly there is so much ethanol in gas today that it's clean as a whistle everywhere in the fuel system unless you let it sit for 6 months.


http://www.fraudguides.com/tips/june2.asp and http://www.straightdope.com...mium-and-regular-gas more about how premium gas does nothing at all for a car that is not designed for it.
------------------



Get your copy of the Fiero 25th Anniv book at http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/349809

Best RV, Camper, and Trailer dealer in West Michigan. http://www.cliffstrailersales.com and he's a fiero owner too!

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 04-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by katore8105: Unless going for the detergents in Mobil high octane is important enough to you. Also, I find it humorous how some of you down play the ability of a Duke to accelerate. Some of you make it sound like it's a lawn mower engine. It is possible that a tired, high mile, poorly maintained duke is doggish, however I have seen several examples of a duke that has no problems at any gear below 5th accelerating. Though it is far from a performance engine, the duke in a Fiero is a good economy powerplant fitment. I can think of many 4 cyl cars that get less MPG and are much slower in acceleration, even new. If we were talking about a Duke that was placed in a USPS truck or an S10 or something 1k lbs heavier, I could see what you're talking about. PK, if you truly don't know what a duke can do and aren't just talking down a good economy engine, I would be happy to whip your head back in the seat at Carlisle this year and show you how easy it is to maneuver on the highway. That being said, of course the Duke lacks power. It gets 40mpg and 92/98 HP in top shape! But please accurately depict it when describing it's abilities or lack there of. Keep in mind that the high output L44 2.8 in the GTs is only 42 more HP with 2 extra cylinders, and an extremely aggressive cam for the engine. That is sure enough to make a significant difference but it also isn't that much in the scheme of things.

Lol theres 2 reasons my Dukes are slow
1. My IMSA has Wheels and tires on it so big and wide it would put a corvette to shame being powered by a duke
2. My 84 Base is auto and sittin on 18's powered by a duke.


Lol and i get enough whiplash from my formula.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 04-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: To the OP- You've been throwing money and possible mileage out the window running 93 in the duke unless its not stock. Lots of people think that running higher octane gas in engines designed for 87 will add power/ prolong engine life/ and add mileage. It does more bad than good. I've driven a 5 speed duke, and I'd honestly be scared to DD one in NYC. I can't imagine trying to get on the highway in one, well actually I can because Fieros can take turns at high speeds, but still. Passing anything with a duke, forget it lol. I found the throttle to be an on/off switch as well.

Dear sir I have differ with you on all points. First, for some reason my car runs better as in it doesnt spark knock while running down the road at a steady speed on 93. It does on 87 at or around 70mph. Also with light load on 87 spark knocks. No the distributor is not off as I have a DIS engine. All sensors have been replaced as well as almost everything else. So Believe it when some one says their engine runs better on 93. I have switched back and forth and 0n 93 the rattle goes away.

Next the duke with a 5 speed does a good job of getting out onto the expressway and traveling at expressway speeds. My stock 2.5 with 164k pulls real strong from about 4,000 on up and if I would let it, it would keep on going past 5,000.

quote Originally posted by solotwo: Dear sir I have differ with you on all points. First, for some reason my car runs better as in it doesnt spark knock while running down the road at a steady speed on 93. It does on 87 at or around 70mph. Also with light load on 87 spark knocks. No the distributor is not off as I have a DIS engine. All sensors have been replaced as well as almost everything else. So Believe it when some one says their engine runs better on 93. I have switched back and forth and 0n 93 the rattle goes away. Next the duke with a 5 speed does a good job of getting out onto the expressway and traveling at expressway speeds. My stock 2.5 with 164k pulls real strong from about 4,000 on up and if I would let it, it would keep on going past 5,000.

Say what you want about using 93, many people have different experiences using it in cars that require 87. The engine is rated for 87 by the manufacturer, it doesn't say: "Run 87 only if your a tightwad and don't have the $$ for 93". It clearly states that this engine requires 87 octane. I'm sure you know that 93 burns at a slower rate to stop knocking in higher compression scenarios. Apart from that, it doesn't do much else- so I would assume that there is something up with your engine that promotes the knock on 87. Please correct me if I'm wrong, of course only you know if your engine is in good shape and how it runs on 87.

As far as duke acceleration, thats simply my opinion. Apart from that 5 speed duke, I've only driven my buddy's auto 2.5 (I think) Mustang. Now THAT thing is a complete turd that would get owned by a school bus that has a blown head gasket and 2 flat tires LOL. I don't have much experience with older engines apart from the few that I've driven and my 2.8, so thats my take on the matter.

Timgray sorry but my ole car needs 93. Why? who knows. I would love to run cheap 87 but I figure 93 is cheaper than rebuilding an engine because the pistons had holes in them. As I stated before I have replaced just about everything. Yes new vaccum lines in the engine compartment. All I can say is the car was bought in Texas and later ended up in Pittsburgh.


Steve W
NE Grand Rapids, MI
88 Coupe

quote Originally posted by solotwo: PK READ my previous post. Not all 2.5's are the same. I have had mine since 2001 and it has been a DD. For some may be a waste but for my 2.5 it saves the pistons form getting nice little holes in them by running 93. Yes I have been told by some here on the forum that it shouldnt. BUT it does. Everything has been replaced! TBI, ECM, prom, sensors, intake gasket, exhaust,GM O2's, GM ERG's, different heat ranges on plugs. Blew a head gasket and thought by replacing it may have changed. NO. Changed CATS, you name it, I have more than likely have done it, changed it or replaced it. Also have been told that the engine should die off at or before 5k rpm. Wrong! Mine wants to continue to pull and pull strong past 5K. Because it is old I dont go past 5K. So not all 2.5's can run on 87. Peace Steve W. NE Grand Rapids, MI 88 Coupe

To each his own but I personally wouldn't do it. It burns way to hot/long for the duke.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 04-08-2011).]

nitroheadz28. I dont mean to give you grief but for whatever reason I have to run 93. If you have read my 3 past posts you will see I have changed, replaced or repaired just about everything. I havent touched the cam or the short block, but everything else yes. Could it be a factory fluke? Could some one at the factory made a mistake putting the engine together? I dont know, but I do know on 87 it rattles and I know that means let it go to long and you have holes in pistons. Some times I will run midgrade until it knocks again.
For the record I am no spring chicken so I dont hot rod it. I did that with my 69 Z/28( the only real mans camaro) that I bought used as a year old car when I was starting college.

quote Originally posted by solotwo: Timgray sorry but my ole car needs 93. Why? who knows. Steve W NE Grand Rapids, MI 88 Coupe

I do, it's out of tune or spark advance is really wrong. That is one of the first signs that the tune of the car is out of whack. when was the last time you set your spark advance? also have you checked if your timing mark is correct? The harmonic balancer can slip the outer ring and be wrong.

Honestly, getting your engine to run right on the cheap stuff will give you a major boost in fuel economy and drive ability.

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 04-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: To each his own but I personally wouldn't do it. It burns way to hot/long for the duke.

Ok pk then should I run 87 and let it spark knock until it burns the pistons or blows head gaskets? Sorry but I have enough auto tech training to know spark knock ruins engines. I have seen what it does to small block V8s. As I mentioned before I have replaced almost everything. So I will continue to burn 93 even thought the experts say it shouldnt. I am not trying to put anyone down or I am not mad at anyone. I am just saying the duke in my car for whatever reason spark knocks on 87 and doesnt on 93. A fluke? More than likely. But it's what works for my 2.5.

Peace

Steve W.
NE Grand Rapids, MI
88 Coupe

quote Originally posted by katore8105: Unless going for the detergents in Mobil high octane is important enough to you. Also, I find it humorous how some of you down play the ability of a Duke to accelerate. Some of you make it sound like it's a lawn mower engine. It is possible that a tired, high mile, poorly maintained duke is doggish, however I have seen several examples of a duke that has no problems at any gear below 5th accelerating. Though it is far from a performance engine, the duke in a Fiero is a good economy powerplant fitment. I can think of many 4 cyl cars that get less MPG and are much slower in acceleration, even new. If we were talking about a Duke that was placed in a USPS truck or an S10 or something 1k lbs heavier, I could see what you're talking about. PK, if you truly don't know what a duke can do and aren't just talking down a good economy engine, I would be happy to whip your head back in the seat at Carlisle this year and show you how easy it is to maneuver on the highway. That being said, of course the Duke lacks power. It gets 40mpg and 92/98 HP in top shape! But please accurately depict it when describing it's abilities or lack there of. Keep in mind that the high output L44 2.8 in the GTs is only 42 more HP with 2 extra cylinders, and an extremely aggressive cam for the engine. That is sure enough to make a significant difference but it also isn't that much in the scheme of things.

I agree Although I will say that I believe most people who put the duke down tend to refer to the auto duke's.. Although they do have more than enough power to them. As for whipping PK's head back in the seat with one? You'd be about 3 years too late I schooled him in my 88 coupe on what the Duke can do

Sure, not the most powerful thing out there, but dammit when you can pull down 35mpg behind a 3 speed auto trans (without OD) in a 24 year old car, that's nothing to shake a stick at

Sorry RenegadeShadow I didnt mean to steal your post. I was just telling others that I have to run 93 most of the time to keep the spark knock away. It could be as timgray says the balancer is off. Any way enjoy your car and 2.5. Especially with gas at $4/gallon.


Steve W.
NE Grand Rapids, MI
88 Coupe

Dude tell em'

I have heard from both sides of the argument in the automotive world all my life, my father a master mechanic tells me Im wasting my money putting 87 in "that peice of ****" , But when I put 93 the exhuast noise is much much cleaner.


93 Burns slow, I've been doing it for years for all my cars and its a habit I doubt I'll kick. BTW I made this topic because I was surprised I beat that 5 cylinder TL, remember my 84 Duke is CLEAN as a whistle and my car was lighter, HP isnt everything

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: I agree Although I will say that I believe most people who put the duke down tend to refer to the auto duke's.. Although they do have more than enough power to them. As for whipping PK's head back in the seat with one? You'd be about 3 years too late I schooled him in my 88 coupe on what the Duke can do Sure, not the most powerful thing out there, but dammit when you can pull down 35mpg behind a 3 speed auto trans (without OD) in a 24 year old car, that's nothing to shake a stick at

You did not put my head back with that duke. i said its got some pep to its step but not balls.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 04-09-2011).]

well this one turned into a duke basher real quick.....
apologies to the op

quote Originally posted by solotwo: How do I set spark advance on a DIS? Is there a timing mark on a DIS? I dont know so am asking. It could be the harmonic balancer, but I am not at a point were I can have the car laid up to pull the balancer and check it. It could be the timing gears are off a tooth. I dont know. I dont have any history on the previous owner. I can see by the condition of the front end and a cross member that the po was not a good driver. I bought the car from Stan Rakovan in Pittsburgh and he got it from an inpound. So who knows what happened to it before I got it. But at this moment, with being unemployed twice this past year, the funds are not available to pull the engine to check. So it will run on 93.

If you have pre ignition on 87 octane, there is something very wrong with your timing. No you cannot change it on a DIS without a tune. I would consider swapping the PROM for good measure and or having Darth tweak one for you. With fuel costs driving up and up, it might very well be worth it in the long run if you intend on driving it for a while. I am not even sure this would be the issue however I would start trouble shooting the timing. Reading through the 87 service manual, I would also try a knock sensor for your condition.

Edit to add: If your vehicle is truly knocking with 87, I would start with the knock sensor. That's what is going to tell the ECM when to retard the timing when knock is present. While you have it out, drop by an Advanced Auto to test your PIM that the sensor is attached to for good measure. Many of times your vehicle will still run with a partially cooked PIM only causing drive ability issues. Not saying the PIM would be related, just a good idea to test it while it's out. Sorry to hijack the thread, it's just dis concerning to hear of your issue and should be fixed to prevent further degradation of your engine. The entire PIM block can be removed easily and quickly. Literally a 30 minute job without a run to Advance for a PIM test.

[This message has been edited by katore8105 (edited 04-09-2011).]

Solotwo - timgray

Sorry - but the balancer has no effect on a DIS motor as the timing is set by the ECM based on the crank position sensor in the side of the block under the ignition module.

I would suggest pulling the ignition module off of the block, clean and renew the conductive lube and check out the coil packs, plug wires and plugs.

You guys all trust the oil industry too much.

They say its 87, 89, 91, and you believe them?.....with everything going on in the oil business these days who knows what they end up putting in the ground under your local gas station....We are all getting bad gas a lot more often than we realize. I have seen people ready to tear apart their ignition systems just before they fill it up, and within 5 miles they say....'never mind'.

And as for Fieros. there was no 87 when they were being built...so you know that none of the engines are going to love the stuff.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 04-09-2011).]

When I visited an Oil Digging country they had 95 octane at all the gas stations, I think 90 was the lowest

quote Originally posted by katore8105: BTW, I mention the prom in the case someone once swapped or tuned it for some stupid performance gain attempt.

New rebuilt GM ecm, new gm prom the updated one, new module a few years back new spark sensor, new tbi, new rebuilt alternator, intake gasket, GM egr, vacuum lines in the engine compartment, spark plug wires, sensors etc. This was mostly done about 4 maybe five years ago. Sensors also. I am not complaining and I dont mind because it runs good. Running at 3 grand in 5th it runs smoothhhhhhhh. I do think I need to replace the O2. Changed TPS last year with one of the old TBI. New MAT this past January. Recently replaced a vacuum elbow at the TBI and PCV. It idles 1000-1200 when warm. Might be a little high but I dont remember what it was like when I first had the car back in 01. Run cleaner through it every 3-4 months. It may be that our scummy government is allowing more ethanol in fuel and that may be the cause. I do know it runs better and more efficiently on summer blend.

I am not to concerned about it and running better on 93. I just think the thing is a fluke. Why does it under full throttle pull strong to and past 5k? I dont know. I have read here on the forum that others fall off close to 5K.

Say to the fellows I was corresponding to last night, pk , timgray and others. I hope I didnt come across to strong. I was just trying to state that whether or not it is supposed to run on 93, I have to, to keep the "knocks" away.