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Can I use R compund tires on my daily driven 85 GT? by TheRealShadowX
Started on: 01-26-2011 10:06 AM
Replies: 20
Last post by: hyperv6 on 01-29-2011 08:45 AM
TheRealShadowX
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Report this Post01-26-2011 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheRealShadowXClick Here to Email TheRealShadowXSend a Private Message to TheRealShadowXDirect Link to This Post
I want serious performance tires on my 85 GT 3.4 PR, but I don't want to upgrade from my stock 14" wheels yet. What are my options for tires? Once it warms up and all of this cold white junk is gone for good, I want to replace my severely damaged tires. I keep looking at Toyo's Proxes tires, namely the R888 and the RA-1. These both seem like VERY nice performance tires, but are they even a little practical for my main and only vehicle? My main concern is longevity. I can live with replacing these once a year, but only 5000 miles of street life is unacceptable. My second concern is, can I even get the full benefit of these tires without driving like a complete psycho? I'm looking to have a little more fun with my car, not kill myself and others trying to warm up some stupid tires. These would see almost all of their abuse on curvy back country roads, with as little traffic as possible.

To simplify, I know little to nothing about this level of tire, and I want someone more knowledgeable to teach me. I understand UTQG ratings, and the basics about tire sizing. I just don't quite get the concept of heat cycles, or know how many street miles an R compound tire can offer. If you have a feasible street tire alternative, that doesn't compromise performance for something silly like quietness or ride comfort, please tell me! Or, if you have good input on the R888 or RA-1, please feel free to share.

This is the R888,



Info here, http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/proxes-r888

and this is the RA1



with info here http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/proxes-ra1

Thanks!

Edit to add, these don't look too bad either, and they might be more practical. Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec



Info here, http://www.tirerack.com/tir...10398365&PID=1873911
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[This message has been edited by TheRealShadowX (edited 01-26-2011).]

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Fiero84Freak
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Report this Post01-26-2011 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakDirect Link to This Post
I personally think that you're going a bit overkill by using an R Compound tire. Since R Compounds are DOT approved, they're typically used in racing applications that require a street tire (SCCA auto-x or weekend series that constitute a DOT legal tire would for instance be ideal for R Compounds, since they provide the best possible grip from a DOT tire). However, you are correct that they will see accelerated tire wear. The problem then also is you have to understand that all tires in rotation generate heat. While you will indeed see lesser wear by going "easy" on them, they're still designed to generate heat for their maximum grip and tire usage (i.e., they'll do their job when you don't necessarily want them to). Additionally, they have just enough "tread" on them to be DOT legal, so you will see a degree of traction loss in unfavorable conditions.

What I would personally do is if you are really wanting to use an R Compound is to locate another set of wheels to have them mounted to. I think driving around with them year round will eventually prove to be problematic. With another set of wheels, you can roll around on Z rated compounds for the majority of the year, then if you desire on a weekend drive to turn it up a notch switch to the R Compound wheels.
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Report this Post01-26-2011 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FreshjClick Here to Email FreshjSend a Private Message to FreshjDirect Link to This Post
I ran Dunlop Super Sport R compounds on a WRX for 4 summers and they weren't worn enough to consider them worn out. I drove 50 miles daily, and in the rain. Once had to drive on solid ice after a early season car show. They actually performed quite well. I definitely recommend those, or something similar if they no longer make them (those Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec's you posted look awfully similar). Not having a ridiculous alignment will definitely give you a good life. My L67 Fiero I ran Pole Position S03's and they only lasted about 1.25 summers due to my high negative camber. They wore right down to the belts on the inside edge. In conclusion, if you're driving summer only and don't mind not getting 30-50K out of the tires and want that extra edge, I'd say go for it, so long as they are DOT rated. Just take it easy in heavy rain till you get used to how they could possibly react. The more tread they have the less you have to worry.

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[This message has been edited by Freshj (edited 01-26-2011).]

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Report this Post01-26-2011 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thedrueSend a Private Message to thedrueDirect Link to This Post
Not sure about the R compound tires. Id be inclined to stay away on a daily driver. That being said I just installed the star specs on my car and love them! They are super sticky and seem to handle the rain with ease.

Not sure how well they will wear yet but I hope to get a couple good years out of them.
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Report this Post01-26-2011 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IROCTAFIEROSend a Private Message to IROCTAFIERODirect Link to This Post
Not sure why you need R tires on a 3.4 but I think you could get away with it.
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TheRealShadowX
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Report this Post01-26-2011 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheRealShadowXClick Here to Email TheRealShadowXSend a Private Message to TheRealShadowXDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IROCTAFIERO:

Not sure why you need R tires on a 3.4 but I think you could get away with it.


Ya know,had someone said that to me about a month ago, I would have agreed. But after my swap, I can say with confidence, the 3.4PR is one torquey son of a b****! I feel like the car would be a lot quicker if I could actually USE first gear. It's a 4 speed manual, btw. 1st is a pretty short gear, and it's really only, screeeech, shift. The car is just hard to launch, and I lost to a Mustang GT due to a bad launch the other day. Though, he didn't beat me by very much at all, and I think with a solid launch, I just might have stood a chance. Also, 3.4 or not, a Fiero is a Fiero, and I want to get as much cornering ability as I can from it, without diving into major suspension mods yet. Basically, my car has a bunch of stuff that needs to be replaced out of necessity, and I don't have the time and money to upgrade a lot right now. But as I said earlier, there is some very serious damage to my current tires, and I figure that if I'm going to replace it anyway, I may as well upgrade too! Being as the difference in cost isn't horrendous it seems like a feasible upgrade. As long as the tires will last until next summer when money will hopefully be better, then I'll be happy!

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TheRealShadowX
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Report this Post01-26-2011 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheRealShadowXClick Here to Email TheRealShadowXSend a Private Message to TheRealShadowXDirect Link to This Post

TheRealShadowX

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quote
Originally posted by thedrue:

Not sure about the R compound tires. Id be inclined to stay away on a daily driver. That being said I just installed the star specs on my car and love them! They are super sticky and seem to handle the rain with ease.

Not sure how well they will wear yet but I hope to get a couple good years out of them.


Sweet! The Star Specs are definitely Plan B, so thanks for sharing! How much more can you tell me? How about their cornering?

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TheRealShadowX
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Report this Post01-26-2011 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheRealShadowXClick Here to Email TheRealShadowXSend a Private Message to TheRealShadowXDirect Link to This Post

TheRealShadowX

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quote
Originally posted by Fiero84Freak:

I personally think that you're going a bit overkill by using an R Compound tire. Since R Compounds are DOT approved, they're typically used in racing applications that require a street tire (SCCA auto-x or weekend series that constitute a DOT legal tire would for instance be ideal for R Compounds, since they provide the best possible grip from a DOT tire). However, you are correct that they will see accelerated tire wear. The problem then also is you have to understand that all tires in rotation generate heat. While you will indeed see lesser wear by going "easy" on them, they're still designed to generate heat for their maximum grip and tire usage (i.e., they'll do their job when you don't necessarily want them to). Additionally, they have just enough "tread" on them to be DOT legal, so you will see a degree of traction loss in unfavorable conditions.

What I would personally do is if you are really wanting to use an R Compound is to locate another set of wheels to have them mounted to. I think driving around with them year round will eventually prove to be problematic. With another set of wheels, you can roll around on Z rated compounds for the majority of the year, then if you desire on a weekend drive to turn it up a notch switch to the R Compound wheels.


Overkill is my middle name! You know, If I could iron out my $$$ situation a little,and find some good prices, having 2 sets wouldn't be a bad idea at all... Hm.... Now you've got me hitting Craigslist!
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Report this Post01-26-2011 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TheRealShadowX:
having 2 sets wouldn't be a bad idea at all... Hm.... Now you've got me hitting Craigslist!


LOL!

Yeah, I would go that route. Whatever wheels you have on the car now you could run typical Z rated tires. Since you would be running an R Compound from time to time the Z's wouldn't wear out as quickly as normal (you'd probably hold onto them for some time). Then for the R's, find a good used set of wheels on Craigslist or spend a bit more and pick up something you like.

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Report this Post01-26-2011 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RamsesprideSend a Private Message to RamsesprideDirect Link to This Post
Here forget the actual "performance" rated tires, overly expensive and you will be all over the place with a light rain.

I ran these on a drag/daily driver for a few seasons and had NO problem hooking up in wet or hot weather, even in snow they threw it like snow tires and i think you can get them in 14s
http://www.tirerack.com/tir...Assurance+TripleTred

I LOVE these tires and when i get the Impala im throwing a set on it. No more Uniroyals for me!

(also i would hate to see your GT damaged after all that hard work)
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Report this Post01-26-2011 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thedrueSend a Private Message to thedrueDirect Link to This Post
Well I have only had my starspecs installed for a couple weeks. They are 17 inch rims though with 245 wide in the rear and 225 in the front. My 3.4 turbo will spin them on launch but they hold very well. I have corvette brakes all the way around and holding power is phenomenal. I can bring the speed down so hard that my glove box that is latched will fly open beside me.

They are also very quiet. I have driven them in the rain and they feel almost as good as on the dry. I will not be pushing them too hard till the weather warms up though and I get to do some autocrossing and general summer driving. I expect them to only get better.

Good luck. I think the star specs are the winner unless its a track only car.
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Report this Post01-26-2011 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekDirect Link to This Post
Damian,

Keep me posted on those as I like your description of them... I may need a new set of four by the end of summer... Or at least the two rear!!

Hope all is well with you!! Did you find the Pontiac arrows you were looking for?

Best always, Jeff

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Report this Post01-26-2011 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
In the past I was able to work with Goodyear and BFG on many of their Show Room Stock race tires. Even today I have a set of soft Comps on my Fiero.

Having worked with tires similar to this I would not waste my money on them.

They are not for daily driving. You will wear them out fast and in wet traction they will be marginal at best. You also will not ever really get to their limits on the road and if you do you really should not be doing it there. Once you go off road things get ugly fast if you are on that high of a limit.

If this was a second car just used for fun on the weekends and you autocross it or take it for track time they would be fine. But race tires and brakes are two mistakes people make and soon regret their use.

I still work in the performance aftermarket and still get people who put racing pads on their street cars and then complain that the ate up their rotors. Same on the tires not lasting. These parts were made to be used up in one afternoon and then tossed away.

Do yourself a favore and just get a get top of the line street performace tires and they will do you a fine job and last you a good longe time rain or shine.

Just because it is race does not always make it the best choice in all applications. When buying performance parts overkill makes a lot of people unhappy and broke I see it everyday. Buy the best and right part for the job. When buying performance the trick is to buy smart.

But on the other hand my company makes a lot of money off of people who have to buy things twice because they did not buy the right part for the job the first time.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 01-26-2011).]

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Report this Post01-27-2011 12:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TheRealShadowX:


Ya know,had someone said that to me about a month ago, I would have agreed. But after my swap, I can say with confidence, the 3.4PR is one torquey son of a b****! I feel like the car would be a lot quicker if I could actually USE first gear. It's a 4 speed manual, btw. 1st is a pretty short gear, and it's really only, screeeech, shift. The car is just hard to launch, and I lost to a Mustang GT due to a bad launch the other day. Though, he didn't beat me by very much at all, and I think with a solid launch, I just might have stood a chance. Also, 3.4 or not, a Fiero is a Fiero, and I want to get as much cornering ability as I can from it, without diving into major suspension mods yet. Basically, my car has a bunch of stuff that needs to be replaced out of necessity, and I don't have the time and money to upgrade a lot right now. But as I said earlier, there is some very serious damage to my current tires, and I figure that if I'm going to replace it anyway, I may as well upgrade too! Being as the difference in cost isn't horrendous it seems like a feasible upgrade. As long as the tires will last until next summer when money will hopefully be better, then I'll be happy!


I'm going to have to disagree on this one. The 1st gear in the 3.65 FDR Muncie 4-speed is the tallest 1st year out of nearly any transmission that you can put into a Fiero, factory or non. It just seems like its short because your accelerating so fast. The 1st gear on the 4-speed is 3.31 ratio, where as the getrag 282 is 3.50, and the Isuzu 5-speed is 3.71. Of course the FDR has a big play in it as well, but still.
Sorry for off-topic post, carry on!
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Report this Post01-27-2011 06:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for davegSend a Private Message to davegDirect Link to This Post
I have run in a lot of autocrosses over the last 15+ years and have driven to/from the event on my R compound tires. Often in heavy rain. Unless there are puddles, the R tires are ok in the rain, many have been slicks.

I know of someone who gets a new set of Toyos each year and drives all summer on them. I don't think this is necessary.

I did put Dunlop Star Specs on my car for daily driving and they are awesome. You can't possibly need more grip on the street and still keep your license.

dave
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Report this Post01-27-2011 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula OwnerSend a Private Message to Formula OwnerDirect Link to This Post
I would say that R compounds (autocross tires) are a bad idea. 5000 miles is what they'd last 10 yrs ago. Now, I'd be surprised if you got 3000 out of a set. Also, they have little tread, making them worse for wet traction. And they're designed to generate heat FAST. They have to get up to temp quick enough to do some good on a 30 second autocross run. On a "spirited" run through the mountains, I'd be concerned about overheating my tires. Also, you'll put FAR higher stresses on your steering & suspension that it was designed for. I have BFG Traction T/A's on my Formula, and I haven't found the limits in any sort of sane driving. Of course, I don't do drag starts either.
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Report this Post01-27-2011 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dsnoverSend a Private Message to dsnoverDirect Link to This Post
Used to be that there were at least two types of 'R' tires: Autocross, and road race. Autocross wouldn't last long on the street, and the road race would last a bit longer, but obviously not as sticky. When I used to autocross, the BFG Comp T/A R1 autocross compound tires would last about 500 miles of use, between the track and driving to the track.

As long as you don't mind replacing the tires more frequently, as long as they are DOT approved, you can run whatever you like. But obviously, dry performance tires aren't really good in the rain or snow, so if you end up in either of those conditions, just be careful. Actually, I'd not drive R tires in the snow, and if the tires were shaved (did that to reduce 'chunking'), I'd probably avoid anything more than a drizzle of a rain....
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TheRealShadowX
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Report this Post01-28-2011 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheRealShadowXClick Here to Email TheRealShadowXSend a Private Message to TheRealShadowXDirect Link to This Post
Wow,thanks for the responses guys. Overall, there is a bunch of mixed reactions. From "Go for it!" to "You'd be an idiot to do that!" But... the overall consensus is that R Compound racing tires for constant everyday use, in the summer only, is just not a wise decision. So, based on that, I think I have made a decision. I think I will be buying the Star specs and seeing how I like those. They are considerably cheaper than the Toyo R's, so if I don't find them to be up to my expectations, at least I lost less money in the process. Also, this way I can buy the R's later down the road, if I still, for whatever reason, want more performance and less practicality. Again thanks a lot guys! I read a lot of threads just like this one on other forums, but they were a little less helpful. I guess that's why our forum rocks harder! -\m/ Thanks

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Report this Post01-28-2011 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
What is the treadwear rating for the Star Specs?
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TheRealShadowX
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Report this Post01-28-2011 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TheRealShadowXClick Here to Email TheRealShadowXSend a Private Message to TheRealShadowXDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rick 88:

What is the treadwear rating for the Star Specs?


220 for the Star Specs as opposed to a mere 100 for the Toyos. However the Toyos are rated AA for grip and the Star Specs are only rated at A. Thats the trade off you make. The Star Specs are like $50 cheaper per tire too though, so that's a plus too.

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hyperv6
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Report this Post01-29-2011 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TheRealShadowX:

Wow,thanks for the responses guys. Overall, there is a bunch of mixed reactions. From "Go for it!" to "You'd be an idiot to do that!" But... the overall consensus is that R Compound racing tires for constant everyday use, in the summer only, is just not a wise decision. So, based on that, I think I have made a decision. I think I will be buying the Star specs and seeing how I like those. They are considerably cheaper than the Toyo R's, so if I don't find them to be up to my expectations, at least I lost less money in the process. Also, this way I can buy the R's later down the road, if I still, for whatever reason, want more performance and less practicality. Again thanks a lot guys! I read a lot of threads just like this one on other forums, but they were a little less helpful. I guess that's why our forum rocks harder! -\m/ Thanks



Good Idea. Take some of the money you save and buy something else for the car that will really help it or something you really want.

Remember it is the combination of parts not the single parts that make up the true performance of the car.

Just because I buy a set of Air Jordans will not make me a better basketball player. I can do just as well in a cheaper pair.
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