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Split Second Performance WORLD'S FIRST (Supercharged W41 Quad 4 GT) by TEXASGT
Started on: 12-30-2009 02:55 AM
Replies: 29
Last post by: mptighe on 03-03-2011 11:01 AM
TEXASGT
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Report this Post12-30-2009 02:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
We are setting up the worlds first Quad 4 "W41" supercharged fiero. (My own Ride) Still Looking For An 86 - 88 GT with No SunRoof!!... If you have one for sale PM me please... The motor is here and getting tore down for rebuild this week. Cometic 2mm Head gasket for boost. (No part number, custom Made) ARP studs part number (#281-4301), I have been told you can use BBC spring in the head for a much higher spring rate. I dont know if this is true. I know you can use BBC springs in the Toyota Supra 7MGTE heads and it works wonders. We are fabbing up the adapter plate to mount up the M90 to the quad and a idler pulley.... Already found the lighten flywheel, looking for a clutch.... People who have done this set up in the past on Grand Am and Cutlass 442 have run the 3.4 and 3.2 pulley and dyno'ed at or around 300HP on stock guts using only a AFC or FMU... I don't like that idea at all... However after one year the motors are still holding together on stock guts. I want to do a true tune. I am going to try to run the 7730 ecm with the help of Ryan (sinister performance). The quad 4 uses the 7749 so I would be kind of screwed because it cannot read KR/Boost. I know the $59 can read boost/KR so it maybe possible to run this setup on the 7730 and I will need a 3 bar map. We have about 10 of them around the shop... If not then megasquirt it is. We are still trying to fab up the intercooler or is it intracooler LOL... I'll post pics after NYE...

The transmission is getting sent out for a complete rebuild and LSD installed. The transmission shop is right across the street thank god...

I wanted to do the 3.8 S.C. but the idea of building a Fiero with a W41 Supercharged Quad and a custom tune is just an awesome thought. If you thought a Quad powerd Fiero was only fun after 3200 RPM all the way to 7450RPM, Just think what a M90 would do for that platform....

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-30-2009).]

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BMTFIERO
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Report this Post12-30-2009 03:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BMTFIEROClick Here to Email BMTFIEROSend a Private Message to BMTFIERODirect Link to This Post
I thought that I was going to be first
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TEXASGT
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Report this Post12-30-2009 03:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
Well no Tim, We are having twins LOL...

You got me thinking of the turbo install. I lost intrest in it and wanted to go with the SC plan again. Then Scott was doing some mock up work with the extra M90 and we found it would work and fit in the Fiero.... After Mike left today we started looking up parts like mad for this setup... BTW mantapart isn't cheap!!!

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-30-2009).]

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BMTFIERO
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Report this Post12-30-2009 04:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BMTFIEROClick Here to Email BMTFIEROSend a Private Message to BMTFIERODirect Link to This Post
Well, maybe not "identical" twins since my engine is W40 Quad 4 and its going in a 88 notchback
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87antuzzi
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Report this Post12-30-2009 04:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziDirect Link to This Post
Trade you my 87 gt for a engine swap done to the 84
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Report this Post12-30-2009 07:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for topher_timeClick Here to Email topher_timeSend a Private Message to topher_timeDirect Link to This Post
PM sent about a car.
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TEXASGT
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Report this Post12-30-2009 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87antuzzi:

Trade you my 87 gt for a engine swap done to the 84


What do you have?
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TEXASGT
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Report this Post12-30-2009 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BMTFIERO:

Well, maybe not "identical" twins since my engine is W40 Quad 4 and its going in a 88 notchback


We can make it a W41 pretty easy. Change the cams to the W41 cams and reburn the memcal to the W41 program. Instant W41...

W40 = 180 HP
W41 = 190 HP

p.s. I ordered the Cometic head gasket for you as well and I ordered you the ARP head stud kit...

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-30-2009).]

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kevin
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Report this Post12-30-2009 06:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinClick Here to Email kevinSend a Private Message to kevinDirect Link to This Post
Have you guys theorized a price for this engine set up ? I think this is an awsome engine combination. The supercharger is a great idea to find lost low-end torque. Keep us posted, with a price of course

Thanks,
Kevin
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TEXASGT
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Report this Post12-30-2009 07:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kevin:

Have you guys theorized a price for this engine set up ? I think this is an awsome engine combination. The supercharger is a great idea to find lost low-end torque. Keep us posted, with a price of course

Thanks,
Kevin


Yes we have it priced out already as an install. The hardest part was to R&D the M90 to intake adapter. Its been sent out to get duplicated. Thank god Scott can fab and Tig... The rest is pretty stright forward. The bigest problem is what ECM setup to use. It looks like megasquirt maybe the only choice but we have a few options still.
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TEXASGT
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Report this Post12-30-2009 07:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
Wrong quad 4 but close enough so you get the idea. Also them using the M45 or M62 not the M90!!!





[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-31-2009).]

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Report this Post12-30-2009 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXDirect Link to This Post
I love what you're doing with the blower on a Q4.

Would your fabrication be simpler if you could do something like say, put the Gen 5 teflon rotors into the much-easier-to-work-with Ford SC TBird M90 housing?

Also, while Code $59 is some good stuff, why are you so resistant to using '7749 ECM?

If you run the '7730 you may as well run the '7727 from W bodies since it has the same guts but its weatherized so it can live in the back and simplify your through-the-firewall wiring and whatnot.
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Report this Post12-30-2009 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

I love what you're doing with the blower on a Q4.

Would your fabrication be simpler if you could do something like say, put the Gen 5 teflon rotors into the much-easier-to-work-with Ford SC TBird M90 housing?

Also, while Code $59 is some good stuff, why are you so resistant to using '7749 ECM?

If you run the '7730 you may as well run the '7727 from W bodies since it has the same guts but its weatherized so it can live in the back and simplify your through-the-firewall wiring and whatnot.


7749 cannot read Boost from what i understand. 7727. need to read up on.

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Report this Post12-30-2009 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for squisher86SESend a Private Message to squisher86SEDirect Link to This Post
That m45 setup is exactly the setup I have on my 2.4 TwinCam in my cavalier

That's a GM part if you'll believe it...

Header and bored out throttle body puts the 2.4 TC over 200 hp. It started at 150.

Add in more compression, hotter cams and a bigger blower (M90? OMFG)
...my kinda stupid

Also, W41 has higher compression than a regular HO quad 4 (W41=11:1, HO=10:1 IIRC)

Still. Boost on a W41? You're crazy. I like it.
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Report this Post12-31-2009 01:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TEXASGT:


7749 cannot read Boost from what i understand. 7727. need to read up on.


it came in turbo Sunbirds and turbo Syclone / Typhoon trucks.
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TEXASGT
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Report this Post12-31-2009 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:


it came in turbo Sunbirds and turbo Syclone / Typhoon trucks.


7749 or the 7727

The second problem would be finding one.

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-31-2009).]

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TEXASGT
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Report this Post12-31-2009 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

I love what you're doing with the blower on a Q4.

Would your fabrication be simpler if you could do something like say, put the Gen 5 teflon rotors into the much-easier-to-work-with Ford SC TBird M90 housing?

Also, while Code $59 is some good stuff, why are you so resistant to using '7749 ECM?

If you run the '7730 you may as well run the '7727 from W bodies since it has the same guts but its weatherized so it can live in the back and simplify your through-the-firewall wiring and whatnot.


Kurt you got me thinking and I found this...

http://www.thirdgen.org/1990conversion
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Report this Post12-31-2009 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TiredGXPSend a Private Message to TiredGXPDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TEXASGT:


7749 or the 7727

The second problem would be finding one.



7749

I picked one up off ebay for my turbo build.

Edit - the next release of $59 is supposed to increase the range of the VE, spark and boost tables from 6400 rpm to 8400, so it could be an option for a higher rpm 4 banger.

Cheers

[This message has been edited by TiredGXP (edited 12-31-2009).]

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TEXASGT
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Report this Post01-01-2010 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
Look what I bought today... Gotta love craigslist..

Not an M90 but from a Saturn Ion Redline ...

M62



Were putting this on a 1986 Fiero with a W40 H.O. but we are doing W41 cam swap and ECM swap. We swapping the pulley as well and if the intercooler will fit that to but I doubt it will fit in there.

BTM call me.. Were ready.

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 01-01-2010).]

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TEXASGT
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Report this Post01-02-2010 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

I love what you're doing with the blower on a Q4.

Would your fabrication be simpler if you could do something like say, put the Gen 5 teflon rotors into the much-easier-to-work-with Ford SC TBird M90 housing?

Also, while Code $59 is some good stuff, why are you so resistant to using '7749 ECM?

If you run the '7730 you may as well run the '7727 from W bodies since it has the same guts but its weatherized so it can live in the back and simplify your through-the-firewall wiring and whatnot.


Thanks KurtAKX... That means a lot to us!
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TEXASGT
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Report this Post01-02-2010 12:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TEXASGTSend a Private Message to TEXASGTDirect Link to This Post
Wow I just found this...

Am I following in the GM ghost footsteps!!

http://encyclopedia.classic...m/concept/aero3.html
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Report this Post01-02-2010 01:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IVANNATINKLEClick Here to Email IVANNATINKLESend a Private Message to IVANNATINKLEDirect Link to This Post
That is awesome! Can't wait to see this unfold
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TK
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Report this Post01-02-2010 02:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:


it came in turbo Sunbirds and turbo Syclone / Typhoon trucks.


Yeah, that's where I get all of mine. Sunbirds and Firenza's. It was also used in the Bravada and Astros in some years and some C/K/G trucks (although most were the 7747 and 8747.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 01-02-2010).]

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Report this Post01-02-2010 02:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXDirect Link to This Post
The M62 is pretty limited. Maxed out its barely good for 300hp unless you overdrive it off Eaton's map.
When you do that, they don't last terribly long that way...had a buddy kill a couple M62s in a Redline with an overdrive pulley.

440CFM at STP is roughly 30lb/min, which is enough to make about 300 HP.

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 01-02-2010).]

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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post01-02-2010 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedDirect Link to This Post
I think a ford Super coupe M90 is what you want. They are pretty easy to come by, and they are in a TINY form factor compared to any other blower. You might be able to gut swap it with some more modern rotors to up the efficiency. But you don't have to, to make good power.

Oh, and 7749's are easy to come by!
87-89 LT3 2.0L I4 Turbo Cavalier's and sunfires
87-88 LD2 2.3L Quad 4 Grand AM's (most abundant)
91-93 LB4 4.3L V6 Turbo Syclone and Typhoon

[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 01-02-2010).]

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vortecfiero
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Report this Post01-02-2010 10:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for vortecfieroClick Here to visit vortecfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email vortecfieroSend a Private Message to vortecfieroDirect Link to This Post
i think you might have had a typo in your initial post
the 7749 does read boost and controls KR and with Promgrammer you can edit anything including the shift light !
Programmer also has 3 diff ways to control boost with the standard $58 code

$58 the stock GM code and most Syclone/Typhoon tuners are familiar with it. Promgrammer can be patched easily for
wide band

using a turbo sunbird wiring diagram (its diff slighly from the 4.3) you will notice the injectors wired a little differently
but rest is pretty basic... I found that the stock GT manual trans harness was fine to convert over.

$59 is the newest code and non GM it was developed by some syclone guys for the ultimate controller

there is a guy in calgary and several in the states that do email tuning etc
with the use of Data Master you create data logs to send the tuner...
he sends you a .bin to burn a chip or a chip depending on your level of chipping. (i burn my own)

the $59 forum has other project cars on the go besides 4.3 turbos.. and im sure someone will
have a start up file for you to get going

let me know if you need any diagrams as i have quite the collection of 749 data.
i only tune a few small things as im still a noob at this stuff

Programmer ($10) is the only editing softwear for the 749 that allows changes to the shift tables and some other stuff
the other standard editors pretty much do anything else you may need.

another benefit from using the 749 is that you can use Moates adapters and have upto 16 diff tunes for the car
that are switchable on the fly.. all on one chip

the Ultimate chip was developed using this hardware

have fun !

------------------



87 Fiero GT 5sp with Vortec L35 4300 Turbocharged V6
Bully Stage 2 clutch
Syclone intake manifold and engine management with Moates adapter and chip burner
Air/water intercooler and Devil's Own progressive water/alky injection
50lb injectors, 3 bar map sensor, Walboro fuel pump and Jabasco Intercooler pump
LM1 wideband on custom manifolds and 3" stainless exhaust system
T31/T04B H3 turbo and a S10 caliper conversion.
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

[This message has been edited by vortecfiero (edited 01-02-2010).]

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Quad GT
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Report this Post03-03-2011 01:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad GTClick Here to Email Quad GTSend a Private Message to Quad GTDirect Link to This Post
What ever happened to this Quad? Did you complete it?
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Report this Post03-03-2011 01:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad GT:

What ever happened to this Quad? Did you complete it?


Uhhh, I don't think you will get a reply any time soon.....
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Report this Post03-03-2011 02:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dhobbs84scClick Here to Email dhobbs84scSend a Private Message to dhobbs84scDirect Link to This Post
lol

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Report this Post03-03-2011 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mptigheSend a Private Message to mptigheDirect Link to This Post
No, what Will Proper (Bill, William, TEXASGT, ReMixGT) "finished" was ripping me and others off and skating with thousands of dollars from his customers. IF he ever resurfaces, it would be best to avoid him, as he had done it before he got me in his last one and will likely return as most scumbags are prone to doing. BTW he was lying about this whole thing, the Quad4 thing was what he WANTED to do to a car but never even started, just like most of the bs that came out of him.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 03-03-2011).]

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