quote Originally posted by Pappy: Look man I didn't come here looking for a fight I was simply stating my thoughts and feelings... I used to build competition systems back in the 80s using ADS and Orion amps and electronics, so I'm no stranger to car audio. Now that I'm in my 50s i reckon my archaic knowledge isn't up to today's standards, but I'm pretty sure of what I know. Sorry to have struck a cord

There's a fight? I don't see one.

Rather, Khw (and myself) were simply correcting the rather common misinformation that gets spread around, which you had stated as fact in your post. A single sub for most peole is plenty, and your boss powered sub may make you happy, and that's great. I currently only have one sub in my Fiero, and it sounds pretty good for what it is, too. But it's certainly not the best or most accurate configuration, even though it's well more than enough to fill the Fiero cabin with low frequency sound.

quote Originally posted by dobey: There's a fight? I don't see one. Rather, Khw (and myself) were simply correcting the rather common misinformation that gets spread around, which you had stated as fact in your post. A single sub for most peole is plenty, and your boss powered sub may make you happy, and that's great. I currently only have one sub in my Fiero, and it sounds pretty good for what it is, too. But it's certainly not the best or most accurate configuration, even though it's well more than enough to fill the Fiero cabin with low frequency sound.

Dobey Please!

I'll say it again the single preamp sub-woofer out (RCA jack) is mono or there would be 2 of them like their are 2 front and 2 rear RCA jacks

So my previous post of

quote My 2 cents on more than one sub. Car audio usually pass bass frequencies in mono and bass is omnidirectional, so in a small cabin like the Fiero you would probably be better off using one sub and the space you were going to use for the second sub could be used for other things i.e. electronics, tool roll, a trunk marmoset, pangolin or good ol leg room When money is tight - This is a great non-invasive, totally reversible option

Still stands as a correct statement

Just exactly what are you saying sir? How is that not a fact?
Please prove me wrong - Or correct my rather common misinformation

Where I come from name calling is looking for a fight, Khw at least apologized.
Dobey you on the other hand will never admit you error because you are always right

[This message has been edited by Pappy (edited 06-27-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Pappy: I'll say it again the single preamp sub-woofer out (RCA jack) is mono or there would be 2 of them like their are 2 front and 2 rear RCA jacks Still stands as a correct statement Just exactly what are you saying sir? How is that not a fact? Please prove me wrong - Or correct my rather common misinformation Where I come from name calling is looking for a fight, Khw at least apologized. Dobey you on the other hand will never admit you error because you are always right

It depends on your stereo. Most factory stereos don't have a subwoofer pre-out. My Alpine has both right and left for the subwoofer pre-out. Again, it's a matter of configuration. I will admit error when there is one, but there isn't. I didn't call you any names so I have nothing to apologize to you for. Your restatement of misinformation perpetuated by the audio hardware industry and misunderstanding of systems, is still wrong. Misinformation that lasts 50 seconds or 50,000 years is still misinformation.

"Bass" is not mono. It is a generalized term for sound frequenecies lower than about 150-200 Hz. The only thing special about a subwoofer pre-out on a car stereo head unit is that it has a bandpass filter blocking frequencies over about 120 Hz. The front an rear pre-outs almost always still include the full range. And it is up to how your system is configured via crossovers, amplifiers, filters, equalizers, etc… to determine which speakers all those frequencies go to. If you're only sending low frequencies to the sub, and only sending frequencies over 200Hz to all the other speakers, then yes, you're going to end up with a mono system in regards to the bass.

Stating that bass is "mono" and/or "omnidirectional" is classic misinformation, and a misunderstanding of how sound and stereos work.

I give up

quote Originally posted by Pappy: I give up

Haha... I did too pappy!! Peace

Pete

quote Originally posted by dobey: It depends on your stereo. Most factory stereos don't have a subwoofer pre-out. My Alpine has both right and left for the subwoofer pre-out. Again, it's a matter of configuration. I will admit error when there is one, but there isn't. I didn't call you any names so I have nothing to apologize to you for. Your restatement of misinformation perpetuated by the audio hardware industry and misunderstanding of systems, is still wrong. Misinformation that lasts 50 seconds or 50,000 years is still misinformation. "Bass" is not mono. It is a generalized term for sound frequenecies lower than about 150-200 Hz. The only thing special about a subwoofer pre-out on a car stereo head unit is that it has a bandpass filter blocking frequencies over about 120 Hz. The front an rear pre-outs almost always still include the full range. And it is up to how your system is configured via crossovers, amplifiers, filters, equalizers, etc… to determine which speakers all those frequencies go to. If you're only sending low frequencies to the sub, and only sending frequencies over 200Hz to all the other speakers, then yes, you're going to end up with a mono system in regards to the bass. Stating that bass is "mono" and/or "omnidirectional" is classic misinformation, and a misunderstanding of how sound and stereos work.

having been a mobile DJ for 23 years, a club DJ at multiple clubs for many of those years, and installed everything from car and home sound systems to entire large club multizoned sound systems and of course, my mobile DJ system weekly...

Ditto - Bass is not mono... though it can be run that way (mostly in a bridged system like I do with my mobile DJ system where I desire the same exact sound on both sides of the large event venues I do, or by a "low sum" setting...where the mids and top are stereo'd and the low ends are mono'd).

and yes....Bass refers to the large low end frequency waves - a lot of small (mostly cheaper) systems only have mono outlets for bass - but there are plenty of systems that also have stereo/multiple zoned channel outputs.

[This message has been edited by boomme (edited 06-27-2011).]

seems like the power rating is suspicious for the speaker size, price, and fuse size. but whatever

quote Originally posted by Pappy: I give up

∎

quote Originally posted by dobey: ∎

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

I truly don't care what you think

[This message has been edited by Pappy (edited 06-27-2011).]

I guess the best example of stereo bass that everyone can relate to...
when In a movie theater, and you hear the a storm's thunder roll from one side of the room to the other... or a jet plane pass by - from one side or the room to the other... that is going to be the bass setup in a stereo config.

when listening to most home theater setups there are usually stereo'd tops and mids... with a single sub base centered and left/right channels summed into one channel.
the sum button setting just acts a lot like a RCA stereo to mono Y coupler.

in my home setup however, I do have two separate subs - left and right - because I enjoy the big screen stereo type sound that the I-Maxs provide.... and try to duplicate it in my home.

[This message has been edited by boomme (edited 06-27-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Pappy: I truly don't care what you think

That was obvious from your refusal to pay any attention to what I said. Khw never said you were correct (and agreed with what I said). What he apologized to you for was insinuating that you were lazy. I'm not gonna spend my time kissing your ass to tell you that you're wrong. You were wrong, and for some reason, you refuse to accept that, and somehow decided to turn it around in your head such that you somehow now feel attacked by my statements, which had absolutely nothing at all to do with you personally.

Of course, I wasn't explaining what I think. I was explaining facts. If you didn't come in this thread looking for a fight, then don't trash it with pointless youtube videos. ∎

quote Originally posted by dobey: That was obvious from your refusal to pay any attention to what I said. Khw never said you were correct (and agreed with what I said). What he apologized to you for was insinuating that you were lazy. I'm not gonna spend my time kissing your ass to tell you that you're wrong. You were wrong, and for some reason, you refuse to accept that, and somehow decided to turn it around in your head such that you somehow now feel attacked by my statements, which had absolutely nothing at all to do with you personally. Of course, I wasn't explaining what I think. I was explaining facts. If you didn't come in this thread looking for a fight, then don't trash it with pointless youtube videos. ∎

For some reason you must have the last word. Dude you have issues.

I do understand what Khw apologized for, and he was MAN enough to say it. Are you looking for some back up buddy? Have I gone and pissed you off? I don't think you have made a very good argument your facts are just that yours, not mine.

You have literally jumped all over the place and even contradicted yourself in your quest to try and put me in my place and that's just dang funny. You have this self image that everyone is your lowly subjects, so you hop on here and belittle people - but can't seem to take someone standing up to you? Ahh the word bully comes to mind.

I still stand by my statement. It must really suck to have so much hate inside ones self

quote Originally posted by Pappy: For some reason you must have the last word. Dude you have issues. I do understand what Khw apologized for, and he was MAN enough to say it. Are you looking for some back up buddy? Have I gone and pissed you off? I don't think you have made a very good argument your facts are just that yours, not mine. You have literally jumped all over the place and even contradicted yourself in your quest to try and put me in my place and that's just dang funny. You have this self image that everyone is your lowly subjects, so you hop on here and belittle people - but can't seem to take someone standing up to you? Ahh the word bully comes to mind. I still stand by my statement. It must really suck to have so much hate inside ones self

I have been staying out of the "argument' until now.

From what I have seen, it has been you, Pappy, that has been argumentative. Sorry to say it, but it appears that way to me.
Just my opinion, and as you will note, my statement was not calling you any names or doing anything other than stating what I am observing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, if we can all put this childish squabbling behind us...

A good low profile sub is the Pioneer flat subs. I am actually looking at one now because it is designed for an enclosure as small as .35 cubic feet. The same size as my under-dash sub box. I'd love to get one to try out and see what it sounds like...

My head unit puts out both left and right audio on my subwoofer pre-amp outputs. Two discreet channels. I have bridged the audio at the amplifier so my subwoofer and my two tactile transducers reproduce in mono.

If I end up installing the mid-bass in the doors like I am thinking about, those will be in full stereo.

Well Synthesis I was trying to be light and humorous about it until the misinterpreted Lazy comment

We both apologized and I thought it was over but...

quote Originally posted by Pappy: Well Synthesis I was trying to be light and humorous about it until the misinterpreted Lazy comment We both apologized and I thought it was over but...

It WAS over. But, one thing I have seen on here is that it is VERY difficult to interpret TEXT, when there is no way to discern a smile, a wink, a twinkle in the eye. It is something I struggle with in my personal interactions. Imagine if your real life actions were just like reading text and you couldn't see the smile, the wink or the twinkle in the eye that lets you know it was meant good-naturedly.

My point is, on this forum, we are all guilty of misinterpreting once in a while. So, from what I could see it was over at the apology level way back on Page 2. It should stay that way now.

Back on topic?

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Back on topic?

Why yes they fit very well