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My 85 GT buildup (LLO powered w/75 N20) by coppertop_01
Started on: 06-15-2009 09:19 PM
Replies: 55
Last post by: doublec4 on 02-26-2011 12:52 PM
coppertop_01
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Report this Post06-15-2009 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
I haven't posted much on here as of yet, been checking it out though. So I thought that I might start a thread with updates and pics.

I guess I should start with a bit about me, this is my first Fiero, although I have always wanted one since I was a kid (was close to owning one twice before this one). I've been modifying/building cars for over 15 years now, although the biggest projects that I have taken on have been in the last 6 years. Most the other cars I owned have been Saturns, owned a 92, 93, 94, 95 (g/f's current car), 98, 2000 and 2004. I've had a showcar saturn 4 dr before (it was in PASmag), and a DragWag 13.4 in the quarter on a stock internal engine with huge turbo. Currently I drive a 2004 Saturn ION Redline. Check out my cardomain page www.cardomain.com/id/coppertop_01 although I haven't updated my photos in a VERY long time.

Anyways onto the Fiero project, my plan is to build something that I don't think has been done before. I want to use a Saturn LLO engine, because the are very light, a plenty and I know how to build them to make some descent power, for fun I am going to throw a 75 shot of Nitrous on it. Also I am going to use a stock Saturn 5 spd transmission with the longer gear ratio (so it isn't reving at over 3000 rpm highway driving). For suspension I am going to rebuild the front suspension with a coilover setup, and use a coilover sleeve on the rear struts. Brakes are going to be corvette rotors (if they will fit, i've had them in my possession for several years and I would like to use them. Body and interior, I am going to upgrade/update these, but keep them fairly stock as I have always loved the look of the car.

Currently the car is being completely stripped down, all the way to the shell, with nothing left on it, not a hose, not a line, not a wire. From there it is going to get some rust repair on the rear end area, and off to sandblasting for a final cleaning. I have to build the mounts for the engine/tranny and suspension upgrades. After that the car is going to be POR15'd and Dynomat the entire interior for proper sound deadening.

Engine plans are simple, keep the stock displacement (aftermarket pistons aren't cheap on a LLO engine since low demands) with stock pistons, 99+ rods (stronger than previous years), balance the bottom end. I already have a ported and polished head that has been decked 0.030, with dual intake cams (longer duration for exhaust). Going to lighten up the parasitic loss by removing the water pump and going with a electric unit, and only run a alternator. Exhaust is going to be custom, intake just a ported intake manifold with big bore TB and cold air intake. 75 shot of nitrous to top everything off.

Transmission is simple, custom driveshafts are a must, with a limited slip differential.

Onto some pictures of the tear down, pretty much oldest to most recent.









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The last one is a engine/car lift/crane that I built up with some scrap aluminum pipe that I had laying around my work.

Jer

[This message has been edited by coppertop_01 (edited 06-15-2009).]

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kyunderdawg
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Report this Post06-15-2009 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kyunderdawgSend a Private Message to kyunderdawgDirect Link to This Post
Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! It's naked........ I'd like to take mine down to that someday and build it back up. Keep us updated.
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Report this Post06-15-2009 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86GTFastbackSend a Private Message to 86GTFastbackDirect Link to This Post
I bet even with the 2.5 in there it would book being naked like that.
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Report this Post06-15-2009 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IFLYR22Click Here to Email IFLYR22Send a Private Message to IFLYR22Direct Link to This Post
Welcome to PFF and the fiero dream...
Nice work. That's a good way to get it ready for the power you plan on putting into it.

I didn't see any rust out of the ordinary, was it always a Canadian car?

Nice lift BTW.

-Dave
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post06-15-2009 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
Interesting build. What horsepower are you building toward?

Arn
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post06-15-2009 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
It has always been a Canadian car, sat in a front yard for 7 years before I took possession.

As for power, looking to boost the 125 hp stock of the 1.9L LLO DOHC to 150 and the 75 shot on top of it, so 225ish when done and said. I guess the best part about the engine tranny combo I am looking at is it is under half the weight of the old original 2.8L. A complete LLO engine without transmission is under 200lbs, just the loaded block (block, oilpan, crank, pistons and rods) is aprox 100lbs. With a transmission I approximate the weight in about 250-275 lbs.

Jer
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Report this Post06-16-2009 08:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlDirect Link to This Post
I'll be very interested in following this thread... I was a Saturn fan before I was a Fiero fan.
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post06-25-2009 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post




























































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Report this Post06-25-2009 10:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for av8fieroClick Here to Email av8fieroSend a Private Message to av8fieroDirect Link to This Post
scary rust!!!!!! good luck with your build

------------------
88blackchopv8

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Report this Post06-26-2009 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseDirect Link to This Post


Very ambitious project.

Good luck, and looking forward to the progress and results.
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post06-30-2009 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
So I have done a couple exterior concept drawings, more will come later as I get further in the project, but this is the start









Front bumper is styled after the GTM (still want that car), still keeps many of the fiero lines, but adds a couple vents in critical area's.

Jer
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Report this Post07-16-2009 08:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Pics of the rust removal



















Jer
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Report this Post07-16-2009 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IFLYR22Click Here to Email IFLYR22Send a Private Message to IFLYR22Direct Link to This Post
with the larger pictures, I see I was wrong about the rust...

How are you going to replace the rusted parts?
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post07-16-2009 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Yeah the rust wasn't that bad, but it wasn't good either, needs a lot of work either way.

I work for a company that makes elevator parts, so I have many of the tools needed to cut, bend and weld at my side, as well as a competent knowledge of autocad helps a bit, but I still find the old ways with cardboard is the best for rebuilding all the metal that I need. I did get some 2x2 16gauge square tubing for the upper frame rail parts, with some creative notching it should work out quite well to go from the firewall to the rear bulkhead area. I kept all the removed steel in the best possible condition, to remove it, I didn't cut most of it out, but I drilled out all the spot welds, keeping the rotted steel in as close to original shape so that I can use it to take measurements and get the replacement steel into the right shape. I also took many many photos of the original shape at different angles to help in the rebuilding.

I will take many pictures of the replacement steel when I get started on it.

Jer
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Report this Post07-17-2009 09:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LAMBOClick Here to Email LAMBOSend a Private Message to LAMBODirect Link to This Post
Wow, that's some serious rust. Too bad you're so far away, I've got a rust free space frame sitting on my property I'd give you just to save you all that fab work. Good luck with your endevour.
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Report this Post07-17-2009 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochDirect Link to This Post
I was going to say the same thing.. I have a ZERO rust parts car chassis I'd give you, but Spokane is a LONG way from Ontario.
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Report this Post07-17-2009 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RickNClick Here to Email RickNSend a Private Message to RickNDirect Link to This Post
I have to agree with others, you're taking on an ambitious and interesting project even if you had a pristine spaceframe to base it on. I wouldn't waste another minute or dime on that frame. I could understand dealing with a questionable Muscle Car frame, they are hard to find, but Fieros are a dime a dozen.

------------------
RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto
White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd
1956 Ford 860 Tractor w/ Freeman Loader
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post07-27-2009 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Update, just started replace rust with actual steel. I am only tack welding everything until I can get the car to one of my works shops with a proper 600V MIG welder instead of my 120V little baby MIG welder.

Yeah in my area, to find a fiero that isn't rotted you are looking at getting a 3g + car that is in working order, this wasn't the path that I wanted to go with this car. I figure only 20-40 hrs of my time plus the $27 in steel and I will have a nearly new frame.

Jer























[This message has been edited by coppertop_01 (edited 07-27-2009).]

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coppertop_01
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Report this Post07-27-2009 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post

coppertop_01

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Double post

[This message has been edited by coppertop_01 (edited 07-27-2009).]

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coppertop_01
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Report this Post01-25-2010 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
If any moderator reads this I need to change the title to this thread, instead of a LLO motor I have changed to a LSJ/LNF turbo with nitrous.

I want to update this thread, the engine has changed, currently I picked up a LNF ecotec turbo motor, I am converting the LNF to a LSJ hybrid motor, LSJ head and pistons replacing the direct injection out.

Here is where it stands right now, there are a few pics of the engine teardown and pics of the parts I got to install, also I have the subframe sandblasted and ready for welding of motor mounts. Pics removed due to issues with the host, updated pics to come.

Jer

[This message has been edited by coppertop_01 (edited 02-01-2010).]

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Report this Post01-26-2010 01:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for N3M3S1SClick Here to visit N3M3S1S's HomePageClick Here to Email N3M3S1SSend a Private Message to N3M3S1SDirect Link to This Post
Pics didn't show for me. o.O

Keep it coming though. We're all reading.
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post01-26-2010 08:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
They are hosted on another site, I think I might be maxing out the bandwidth for these pics..........lol, try refreshing they have come up for me.

I am talking to my friend about making a page on my website for my Fiero buildup.

Jer
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post01-27-2010 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Got a part fab'd up today, its going to replace the front lateral brace in the subframe. I needed to build a new one for the ecotec motor mount and also move the whole bar forward 2" to make clearance for the ecotec block (there is a bolt location for the AC, which I ain't running that is hitting the stock subframe) keep in mind in these photo's the engine will be sitting aprox 3" lower than where it is sitting now.




Keep in mind I have only tack welded this with a TIG welder, it will be completely welded when I know everything is going to fit and work out.

As for all the holes, I was trying to lighten it up a bit, and be creative since I have the equipment at work todo that.........might have gone too far, but it is pretty light, will see how it compares to the stock piece when I cut it out.

Jer

[This message has been edited by coppertop_01 (edited 01-27-2010).]

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coppertop_01
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Report this Post01-29-2010 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Really getting my ass into gear now.......got a set of driveshafts that I should have in a short while as well as the jack shaft for the transmission.

Got a bit of welding done, had a small problem with the mounting location, nothing a cutoff wheel and a little welding can't fix. Engine is now in its proper mounting location and the first mount is done (save the final welding), next week I will have the rear tranny mount mocked up and the whole thing should be ready for its first test fit into the chassis and design the engine/transmission torque axis mounts.





Jer
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post01-30-2010 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
I updated my concept drawings, since there is a couple changes to my design.

I've actually got a damaged GT rear clip and I will be adding the fast back design to the notchback rear end, basically notchy tailights with GT sails......not sure if its been done before, but its going to need some fibreglassing to get it done. Also I had to add a bird catcher above the roof for the rear mounted air to air intercooler, and doing a rear deck lid that goes from the roof down with a window to see the motor/engine bay.





Jer
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post02-03-2010 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
A couple update pics, got the rear part of the subframe rebuilt for the rear tranny mount.......still hoping to have the engine test fit into the chassis this weekend.

In case anybody wants to know the reason I made the new brace go upwards, I wanted to make more room for the exhaust coming off the turbo, I am going to have two 2.5" pipes coming off a 3 or 3.5" (can't remember) collector. You will also notice that I haven't put provision for the rear tie rods......you will see why in the future.





Jer
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Report this Post02-04-2010 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RivetheadSend a Private Message to RivetheadDirect Link to This Post
Really cool build! I really like the direction of your project. Also very neat work on the frame. Keep it up.
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post02-05-2010 06:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Thanks, I figure if I have the tools at work and the skills to design/build something different then why not. All the frame work has been done with .105 thick metal, from what I mic'd out on the original frame (thats the thickest I could find on the frame) it looks to be the same thickness material, also from what I have scaled out I haven't added any extra weight to the frame +/- a pound or two (some heavy rust in sections probably lost a couple pounds from the day it was off the assembly line).

Got the work flatbed booked to pickup and deliver the chassis to my work/shop later today, I should have some preliminary test fit pics sometime today, and there will be some work done to it on sunday.

Jer
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post02-07-2010 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Got a lot done to the Fiero today........engine has been test fitted, which fits great no modifications needed. Also welded in all the bracing for the rear end, still some more stuff coming this week.

Here's a few pics

















Jer

[This message has been edited by coppertop_01 (edited 02-07-2010).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post02-07-2010 01:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Nice bracing, that should be real stiff when you're done with it.
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Report this Post02-07-2010 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rourke_87_T-TopClick Here to Email rourke_87_T-TopSend a Private Message to rourke_87_T-TopDirect Link to This Post
Nice work !
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post02-07-2010 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Thanks guys, had a really good day that was very productive.

Jer
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Report this Post02-07-2010 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RivetheadSend a Private Message to RivetheadDirect Link to This Post
Looking good man!
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Report this Post02-07-2010 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
We really need an update.

MORE PICTURES PLEASE!!!!!
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Report this Post02-09-2010 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Probably won't get anymore updates till sometime early next week........but I will have the motor mounts finished and a couple other little things tidied up.

Jer
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Report this Post02-17-2010 10:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
More update photo's, did some more welding last night, getting closer to the welding weekend and sandblasting stage.








Jer
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BabyVet
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Report this Post02-18-2010 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BabyVetClick Here to Email BabyVetSend a Private Message to BabyVetDirect Link to This Post
Your doing a great job keep up the good work and can't wait to see it done!! Vid's for sure
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Report this Post02-19-2010 01:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaDirect Link to This Post
Im sure the rear end will weigh a lot less with all that metal removed. But it also seems unsafe if you get rear ended.
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coppertop_01
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Report this Post02-19-2010 01:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
Its still going to have the regulation bumpers, and I will be putting the rear clip supports/trunk supports........it isn't going to look that bare when I am done.

Although really, how much extra cushioning do you think the trunk adds to the chassis? Also my 2" square tube upper spaceframe supports might just be a little stronger than the stamped steel ones from the factory.

Thanks for the comments though, I hope to be getting the car welded a bit more and sent to sandblasting in the next couple weeks.

Jer
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Report this Post02-19-2010 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlDirect Link to This Post
I will be following this thread with a lot of interest, as I also have a 04 Ion Redline, and I was hoping that if anything were to happen to it, to get the motor out and put it in the Fiero.

What sort of horsepower are you looking at? Also, why get rid of the DI? Tuning difficulties?
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