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Yes, you too can have a Fiero with a front mounted engine! (can't type sarcasm) by cujoe_da_man
Started on: 05-31-2009 07:56 PM
Replies: 36
Last post by: jscott1 on 01-18-2011 11:44 PM
cujoe_da_man
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Report this Post05-31-2009 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cujoe_da_manClick Here to Email cujoe_da_manSend a Private Message to cujoe_da_manDirect Link to This Post
So, had a "talk" with someone ( after I told him about dropping V8's in) about a guy he knew that converted a Fiero into a true rear wheel drive car. That is, engine in the front, drive shaft and complete rear axle. He said it's easy to do, you just weld in a new sub frame.

Supposedly, this guy (whom was never named either) took a big block V8 of some kind and used a camaro shaft, tranny and rear axle and welded in an entire new sub frame to hold everything in place. I asked how did he get the hood closed and all he said was "oh, he just cut a hole in the hood". I asked him if the gas tank was moved and he said it was put in the back above the rear axle.

Now, maybe he was telling the truth... but I just can't picture it. Maybe that's just me and I don't know enough about what these cars are capable of, but I have to stop and wonder, why on earth would you spend that much time and energy for something like that when a normal swap is so much quicker?
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Genopsyde
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Report this Post05-31-2009 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GenopsydeClick Here to visit Genopsyde's HomePageSend a Private Message to GenopsydeDirect Link to This Post


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------------------
1986 Coupe w/ Duke
1987 GT w/ F355 kit & L67 Swap

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Report this Post05-31-2009 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86fierofunSend a Private Message to 86fierofunDirect Link to This Post
search tech. I believe I've read a couple of different build ups on front engine fieros.
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twofatguys
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Report this Post05-31-2009 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for twofatguysClick Here to Email twofatguysSend a Private Message to twofatguysDirect Link to This Post
It's been done, but I've only seen pictures, so I am not believing it .


Around here I get to hear all kinds of crazy stories. All about the guys that put Porsche Engines, in them, and they stop burning up, flipping over etc.

One guy down the road from me (I can't see it cause nobody is supposed to know about it) "has a 91 or 92 Fiero with a Ford Superduty in it. "

Now I'm not saying it isn't possible, but some things I just save up to tell the guys when we get together.

Brad
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Report this Post05-31-2009 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALLTRBOSend a Private Message to ALLTRBODirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cujoe_da_man:
Maybe that's just me and I don't know enough about what these cars are capable of, but I have to stop and wonder, why on earth would you spend that much time and energy for something like that when a normal swap is so much quicker?

Two reasons:
1) To fit commonly used bulletproof drivetrains
2) To fit big arse ginormous tires (as shown above)

Some people want the small, light Fiero chassis to build a mean drag car with. There's nothing wrong with it, as long as they aren't using an '88.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 05-31-2009).]

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cujoe_da_man
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Report this Post05-31-2009 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cujoe_da_manClick Here to Email cujoe_da_manSend a Private Message to cujoe_da_manDirect Link to This Post
ok, I can see making a drag car, you don't use the original frame anyway, you build the entire car and wrap the body around it... I should have clarified that the one I was talking about was fairly stock, he just beefed up the original body because he still drives it around, something you can't do with a drag car. He was all like "yeah, it looks like a factory job, you'd never know"
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-31-2009 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
Eric Schneck ( Boomtastic) from Mass, now living in Alabama, built a front engine V8 Fiero years ago. It was basically a Fiero body over a custom tube frame. You can go to Erics website (Boomtastic Racing and see his "pro-street 86 Fiero.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Chicken McNizzle
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Report this Post06-01-2009 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Chicken McNizzleClick Here to visit Chicken McNizzle's HomePageClick Here to Email Chicken McNizzleSend a Private Message to Chicken McNizzleDirect Link to This Post
I was under the impression that he bought it that way
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Report this Post06-01-2009 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for shreddClick Here to Email shreddSend a Private Message to shreddDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-01-2009 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
I might be off my rocker, but I see some merit to a front engine/rear drive fiero... for a Fiero mini truck daily driver.

Put a 4.9 up front (high torque and low weight) use a rear mounted tranny (C5 vette or Porsche 928) with torque tube to minimize loss of floor space due to tranny tunnel. The rear tranny would also keep the weight closer to 50/50. Convert the rear to a double a-arm IRS setup (there are a bunch that are bolt in anymore) and ditch the struts. Move the fuel tank to under the rear glass and then trim out the nice hole you have with the engine removed as a mini pickup bed (no tailgate - enclosed on all 4 sides).

Should easily be 30mpg on the highway and mid 20's in town, Power and stability to tow small trailers, and more usable storage space for daily and trip use. mount some seats in the bed and you have a nice weather fiero for 4... (and time for a removable rear window)

Once I get my F40/SBC upgrade done, this is probably my next project.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 06-01-2009).]

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Report this Post06-01-2009 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cujoe_da_man:

...but I have to stop and wonder, why on earth would you spend that much time and energy for something like that when a normal swap is so much quicker?



Some people just can't get their head around "transverse mid-engine" and just have to have a "Camaro powertrain" in whatever they drive. Kinda like "die-hard carb guys" who automatically throw away the fuel injection system on every car they buy and want to "hot-rod".

------------------

World of Wheels Winners
My 3.4L S/C 87 GT
& My SD4 Indy

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Report this Post06-01-2009 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cujoe_da_manClick Here to Email cujoe_da_manSend a Private Message to cujoe_da_manDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


Some people just can't get their head around "transverse mid-engine" and just have to have a "Camaro powertrain" in whatever they drive. Kinda like "die-hard carb guys" who automatically throw away the fuel injection system on every car they buy and want to "hot-rod".




I guess I can go with that
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Report this Post06-01-2009 03:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cujoe_da_man:

I guess I can go with that


Well I've been to many Show and Shines and you'll sometimes get the person who asks "Why is the engine at the "wrong end" of the car?"

I point out, there is no "right or wrong" end and that most exotic cars people CANNOT afford like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bugatti, Saleen, Koenigg, Vector etc are NOT front engined cars either.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-01-2009).]

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Eclipse
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Report this Post06-01-2009 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EclipseClick Here to Email EclipseSend a Private Message to EclipseDirect Link to This Post
I think those machines above look like they would be a lot of fun! Remind me of some of my kids Hot Wheels cars.. I love the red one...

------------------
Jay Brintnell
Southern Ontario Fiero Association and the Ontario Pontiac Club

Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival. - W. Edwards Deming

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited 06-02-2009).]

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Report this Post06-01-2009 04:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlackGT CoddeClick Here to Email BlackGT CoddeSend a Private Message to BlackGT CoddeDirect Link to This Post
can anyone say?
SQUIRRELY
man it has to be a chore to keep that thing straight at the dragstrip
with tires fatter and taller than my CRT television
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cujoe_da_man
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Report this Post06-01-2009 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cujoe_da_manClick Here to Email cujoe_da_manSend a Private Message to cujoe_da_manDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eclipse:

I think those machines above look like they would be a lot of fun! Reminf me of some of my kids Hot Wheels cars.. I love the red one...



Or what about Matchbox? :P

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Report this Post06-01-2009 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for vortecfieroClick Here to visit vortecfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email vortecfieroSend a Private Message to vortecfieroDirect Link to This Post
Joe of The Fiero Shop had a bbc front mount in his show room for about 2 years.
It was defiantly a purpose built car and i dont think he ever licensed it but it did
get fired up and driven around from time to time.

any engine, any drive train combo is possible... its a matter of time, money and expertise.
Id love to see an audi v8 or a nissan v6 done

------------------



87 Fiero GT 5sp with Vortec L35 4300 Turbocharged V6
Bully Stage 2 clutch
Syclone intake manifold and engine management with Moates adapter and chip burner
Air/water intercooler and Devil's Own progressive water/alky injection
50lb injectors, 3 bar map sensor, Walboro fuel pump and Jabasco Intercooler pump
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T31/T04B H3 turbo and a S10 caliper conversion.
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

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Report this Post06-01-2009 06:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
This one was running around the parking lot at the 25th... so it might be somewhat local

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[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 06-01-2009).]

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Report this Post06-01-2009 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for R RunnerClick Here to visit R Runner's HomePageClick Here to Email R RunnerSend a Private Message to R RunnerDirect Link to This Post
Boomtastic built a nice one. Check out his site:

www.boomtastic.com

------------------
Paul

My IMSA Build: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789315
HHP Adjustable Sway Bars: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/036556.html

[This message has been edited by R Runner (edited 06-01-2009).]

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Report this Post06-01-2009 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
Why not just buy a Vette?
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Report this Post06-01-2009 07:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageClick Here to Email lildevilSend a Private Message to lildevilDirect Link to This Post
Because the Fiero looks better and definiltly more unique. I've seen Shredds car upclose and words jus don't do it justice. I'd love to get my hands on that silver one. Anyone know the owner/
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Report this Post06-01-2009 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pro street daveClick Here to Email pro street daveSend a Private Message to pro street daveDirect Link to This Post
The silver one is mine Prostreet Dave. Ravenna Ohio.
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Report this Post06-01-2009 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageClick Here to Email lildevilSend a Private Message to lildevilDirect Link to This Post
Did you build it? How much (if any )of the chassis is still Fiero in origin? Is there any pics of the build? Been to the track with it yet?

Simply looks badass!
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post06-01-2009 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
While I can appreciate the uniqueness of a front engined Fiero a setup like that has got to completely throw off the weight ratio balance of the car. You end up with 500 lbs on the front axle, a heavy 100lb trans and a differential in the back; hardly any weight on the rear wheels. I don't see how the big V8s can get any traction plus these cars MUST be extremely hard to handle and steer. The mid engine design is key to the Fieros good handling

As to answer the Chickens statement; I remember Eric Schneck owning his front engine Fiero going back 10-12 years. I believe that he built it but he could have purchased a work in progress. Not sure about that. I remember when he lived in the NE several years back he would take it to the shows here. As it was far from street legal this car was ALWAYS trailered to the shows. I very much doubt if Erics car or any other front engine Fiero is very streetable and talk about weight, these cars must weigh in at 3700-3900 lbs. Add a fully dressed SBC V8, then the T-10 or similar trans, full tube frame, differential etc etc and you've got one heavy Fiero. I view these cars mostly as novelties

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post06-02-2009 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALLTRBOSend a Private Message to ALLTRBODirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-02-2009 06:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
It would sure as hell get people to stop asking me where my engine is everytime I check my clutch and brake fluid at the gas station.
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Report this Post06-02-2009 07:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageClick Here to Email lildevilSend a Private Message to lildevilDirect Link to This Post
If you put the engine in the front I am sure the last thing on your mind is HANDLING. Doing this is for one purpose and thats the quarter mile.
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Report this Post06-02-2009 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
I think it would be kinda neat to see a boxer style engine in the front of a Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 06-02-2009).]

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Report this Post06-02-2009 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BrocephusClick Here to Email BrocephusSend a Private Message to BrocephusDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Khw:

I think it would be kinda neat to see a boxer style engine in the front of a Fiero.



A Suby WRX STi boxer engine with the AWD gearbox
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Report this Post06-03-2009 01:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Years ago - there was a kid where I lived who's Dad owned a Candy distribution center. This kid had an 84 with an aluminum "Olds V8" mounted in the traditional "front" style. The entire drivetrain was out of Olds F85 Jetfire - a little (1962?) 2 door Olds that had a 215cid aluminum V8 that was turbocharged. Here's a little snipit on the design of the "Olds Turbo Charged Rocket Engine"

"Placed on sale in April 1962, the Jetfire two-door hardtop -- based on the F-85 Cutlass -- held a turbo-boosted edition of the 215-cid V-8 good for 215 bhp at 4600 rpm and 300 pound-feet of torque at 3200 revs. That figure of one horsepower per cubic inch, first achieved in 1956 by the Chrysler 300-B, was a nearly magical number to enthusiasts at the time. To help prevent pinging, Chevrolet lowered the compression of its turbo-charged Corvair. Oldsmobile took a different path, keeping the compression at 10.25:1 but employing an innovative fluid-injection system. Kept in an under-hood reservoir, "Turbo-Rocket Fluid" was an equal-parts mix of distilled water and methyl alcohol, along with a bit of rust inhibitor. Whenever the driver tromped the gas pedal, this tank was pressurized, causing a small amount of fluid to be injected into the air-fuel mix just before it reached the intake-side impeller. As the fluid evaporated, it absorbed heat from the intake air, holding down combustion-chamber temperatures and preventing detonation. The Jetfire's Garrett TO-3 turbocharger sat crossways atop the engine, with a special single-throat, side-draft Rochester carburetor on the left and the exhaust system on the right. The entire installation added about 36 pounds to engine weight. The placement of the turbocharger did not impede access to spark plugs or the distributor. To cope with the extra horsepower, the Jetfire V-8 had special pistons and heavier-duty main bearing caps, along with heavy-duty aluminum alloy for bearing inserts and what Oldsmobile called a "performance-tailored" fuel pump and connecting rods. Intake valves were aluminum-coated, and the distributor and coil worked at higher voltage."

No expense was spared on this car and it was all built using the original chassis with some additions. It was a very well done ride. I wish I had some pics of it. That was the car that put the Fiero bug in my head. The first time I watched that Fiero eat a camaro on main street, I wanted one just like it. It only took 21 years to get my first Fiero and I have yet to have a V8 Fiero either tranverse in back or up front but someday I will. This kid also had a TR7 with a SBC in it, a Mazda truck with a Ford 302 and his "Drag Car"was a Chevette with a alchy burning blown BBC - pro street that ran low 9's in the 1/4. Needless to say, it only takes money. Anything can be built!

Having said all that, I would like to find one of these 215's with the turbo setup. Give some modern day machining, head work, cam design and a high tech turbo setup and install it transverse in a Fiero. Wonder what kind of hp you could get out of it.
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Report this Post01-18-2011 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
Are you sure about the chrysler? I'm pretty sure that the fuel injected chevy 283 was the first with 1hp per cubic inch. My tr7 had a 3.8. Are you sure about the v8 tr7?
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Report this Post01-18-2011 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
reason people may do put the engine up front is because transverse mounting stuff is a design flaw...imho anyway.
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katatak
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Report this Post01-18-2011 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

Are you sure about the chrysler? I'm pretty sure that the fuel injected chevy 283 was the first with 1hp per cubic inch. My tr7 had a 3.8. Are you sure about the v8 tr7?


Not sure about the Chrysler! It's a quote from an article I was reading bout the Jetfire - I am 100% sure about the SBC in a TR7! Spent many a Friday night flying around my home town in it!

Edit to add: Man you had to dig deep to find this one - 6/2009!

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 01-18-2011).]

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Formula88
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Report this Post01-18-2011 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cujoe_da_man:
why on earth would you spend that much time and energy for something like that when a normal swap is so much quicker?


Not everyone uses a stopwatch as the sole means of evaluating their car.
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weaselbeak
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Report this Post01-18-2011 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for weaselbeakClick Here to Email weaselbeakSend a Private Message to weaselbeakDirect Link to This Post
Buy a Firebird, toss the backseat. Close enough.
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Report this Post01-18-2011 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by weaselbeak:

Buy a Firebird, toss the backseat. Close enough.


I agree.. If I was into drag racing I would start with a Firebrid, and call it a day.

The transverse transmission is not so much a design flaw as the fact that a suitably strong one is difficult to integrate into the Fiero. Most transverse engine cars are front wheel drive and people serious about drag racing are not rocking front wheel drive. ( I don't consider the Grand Prix a serious drag car).
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