I'm not in the camp of keeping a Fiero looking the way GM offered it. I've long considered various body kits, and nearly bought into a couple of different noses. But now that I've finally settled on my own unique idea, suddenly I notice how nothing else holds my interest. I was wondering if it was like this for anyone else?
I'm not in the camp of keeping a Fiero looking the way GM offered it. I've long considered various body kits, and nearly bought into a couple of different noses. But now that I've finally settled on my own unique idea, suddenly I notice how nothing else holds my interest. I was wondering if it was like this for anyone else?
Always follow your own designs, never settle until you're satisfied-that's the rule in my book, and never bolt on a kit-tweak it first.
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"Friends don't let their friends drive stock."
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03:09 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
To each his own. There is nothing wrong with bolting something on if that is what a person likes. People put a lot of time and effort into those 'bolt-on' parts. Look at Amida's stuff. He spends months developing a piece and gets lots of input from other Fiero owners. Why should someone have to rework it if he gives them the look they want? If you want custom and have the skill to build your own or the money to pay someone to develop it, more power to you. But that doesn't mean there is something wrong with those who like something already made that can be bolted on.
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04:31 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
To each his own. There is nothing wrong with bolting something on if that is what a person likes. People put a lot of time and effort into those 'bolt-on' parts. Look at Amida's stuff. He spends months developing a piece and gets lots of input from other Fiero owners. Why should someone have to rework it if he gives them the look they want? If you want custom and have the skill to build your own or the money to pay someone to develop it, more power to you. But that doesn't mean there is something wrong with those who like something already made that can be bolted on.
Dale, it's called, "individuality" for that is the main theme for customization. Bolt-on is just what the meaning implies and once you've seen 4-10 guys (at a Fiero show) with the same bolt-on part you have lost your individuality thus the need to re-tweak the bolt-on part in question.
im pretty much in the same boat. that cars are usually just a platform to build from. as for the other body kits per say...most of them aren't to my taste...due to my...maybe unique style for fieros. I like to mix a bit of older pontiac muscle car styling. I do not like rebodies...just because i rather not strictly copy a car. Best bet is to start to brain storm =)
Build what you love and stick to it. I painted a car and had an entire car community HATE on me...im talking over 5 or 6 pages of pure hatred towards me. I left that car community and will slowly am working my way back towards it...I find that this community to be very accepting to about any any mod you do to your car as long as you do it well and not make a hack job of it. I admire that and is one reason I was drawn to the fiero.
[This message has been edited by Hockaday (edited 11-01-2010).]
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12:23 AM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
Everybody has their own opinions, likes, and dislikes, Curly. But just because you don't agree doesn't make them wrong. I'm glad you love your cars. I like them too. I am sure they are not to the taste of everyone. Some people might just rather bolt on an Amida nose. If that is what their individuality and imagination wants, why try to belittle it? This same conversation has been going on for several years now. Just because someone doesn't want to or have the ability to throw money at their cars doesn't mean their car is any less than someone who does. So why always put it down at any given opportunity? Please don't accuse me of fairy dust. I am just saying not all people want the same things you want.
Everybody has their own opinions, likes, and dislikes, Curly. But just because you don't agree doesn't make them wrong. I'm glad you love your cars. I like them too. I am sure they are not to the taste of everyone. Some people might just rather bolt on an Amida nose. If that is what their individuality and imagination wants, why try to belittle it? This same conversation has been going on for several years now. Just because someone doesn't want to or have the ability to throw money at their cars doesn't mean their car is any less than someone who does. So why always put it down at any given opportunity? Please don't accuse me of fairy dust. I am just saying not all people want the same things you want.
He's not necessarily saying that it's 'wrong' to do bolt on treatments. He's just saying that if everyone does the same thing, then you still end up without a particularly re-styled car. Sort of like how all the 'modified' imports look the same these days. They all bolt on the same body kits, wings, exhaust, etc… any more. If they like it, whatever, but it doesn't make the Civics particularly stylish any more than they were stock.
Curly is pretty much saying "yes, I agree" to the OP. And you're trying to argue that. But the OP is "do you also feel that way, as I now do?" and not "do you want to argue about what's best?"
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11:10 AM
exoticse Member
Posts: 8650 From: Orlando, Fl Registered: Jun 2003
He's not necessarily saying that it's 'wrong' to do bolt on treatments. He's just saying that if everyone does the same thing, then you still end up without a particularly re-styled car. Sort of like how all the 'modified' imports look the same these days. They all bolt on the same body kits, wings, exhaust, etc… any more. If they like it, whatever, but it doesn't make the Civics particularly stylish any more than they were stock.
Curly is pretty much saying "yes, I agree" to the OP. And you're trying to argue that. But the OP is "do you also feel that way, as I now do?" and not "do you want to argue about what's best?"
That is what i got.
I don't think the original poster was looking for an arguement as much as he was seeing if there others that felt the same way as he did.
I agree if you are going to go to the trouble of re-styling your car, why not tweek SOME of the parts so you are not cookie cutter ? Not even talking major stuff, change the lights, add a vent, or just something to give it your own signature.
Isn't that the point of customization anyway ?
Still everybody has the right to do with their car as they wish. If a straight bolt on works for you, then i have no problem with it.
Songman mentioned Amida's noses, and i see his point, those things are near perfection. Soon though i am sure someone will find a way to tweek those too !! hehehehe
[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 11-01-2010).]
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11:29 AM
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
She has an aluminum wing on her that are not in the pictures. it makes it look better...I'm sure there is probably no enhancements from it but its purely for style. Least I can admit that =)
[This message has been edited by Hockaday (edited 11-01-2010).]
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12:53 PM
BoxerFanatic Member
Posts: 20 From: Central Iowa, United States Registered: Nov 2010
But this thread prompted me to upgrade from un-registered lurker.
I had an idea a few weeks back, and now cannot get it out of my head, even though I have no money for hobbies right now, not that many tools to work with, and no real experience beyond changing oil, spark plugs, and brake pads and rotors. So it probably isn't going to get off the ground, and if so, not very soon.
But I can identify with the original post author. I have always thought a well-done fiero was pretty cool, and a bit rare to see, even though I am not the world's biggest fan of GM in general. (I am very sad that they cancelled Pontiac, actually.)
Since lurking here, I have seen many more very cool Fieros, both stock or near-stock, and fully customized.
But I can't seem to get my idea out of my head, and even photo-chopped some mock-ups. (I used a car pictured here as the basis, V8Archie's yellow Stinger, and a bit of MadCurl's orange wide-body.) But since the originals are not mine, and used without permission, I am not sure what the policy is on posting them.
But I have noticed that the tenor of the board here is quite amiable, and that is always a good thing when discussing customs, and being tolerant and accepting of other people's tastes for their own cars, and customizations.
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01:27 PM
exoticse Member
Posts: 8650 From: Orlando, Fl Registered: Jun 2003
Ok, here are a few of my ideas. Again, digital mock-up. If the original owner of the photographs wants me to remove these, I will be happy to comply.
I used the "Stinger" show car, because it is clean in a way that really suits the theme I have in mind.
A little background... I am a big fan of the automotive designer, Giorgetto Giugiaro. He is famous for the "folded paper" look that was popular on european sports cars in the 1970s and 1980s, but he continues to design cars, and his company, ItalDesign, was recently bought (majority of stake) by Volkswagen AG.
A couple of his cars that are pretty famous, the Lotus Esprit, Maserati Bora and Merak, and the DMC12 DeLorean. (I also like John Z. DeLorean's automotive philosophy, and some of the things he did at Pontiac.)
As an "homage", I want to re-create parts of his designs from several cars, onto a Fiero spaceframe. Mostly the Maserati Bora/Merak (also a spaceframe mid-engined car), and DMC12 DeLorean's aft section.
V8 Archie's Stinger is a very clean shape, and instantly lended itself to this modification, visually. If I were to build this, it wouldn't be a direct copy of the stinger, plus my additions... but I would keep a similarly clean body shape.
The angle that first convinced me to try this:
In comparison to the stock fiero body-styles.
Good profile shot, with the stock rear tail lights and rear bumper...
Alteration to a more DMC-12-like tail treatment, with higher bumper height, and longer fastback.
I also envision a front end similar to the Merak SS, including the grille grate hood vent, although perhaps with the main grille bisected vertically in the center. (in deference to a bit of Pontiac history) These are just google-result examples.
[This message has been edited by BoxerFanatic (edited 11-01-2010).]
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01:47 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
It seems that I found a lot of "looks" I really liked, and it wasn't about being unique. I like the "vibe" of the stock '87-'88 non-GT nose, but it's wrong for high speed stability. A GT nose with an airdam extension is better. But it seems to me that then they have too much visual mass in front of the front wheels. It seemed I couldn't have my cake and eat it too. The nose I chose is way too rounded and curvy for a Fiero, but talent like Amida, Madcurl, Whodeanie, and many others, have proven that it's not a deal-breaker. I immediately researched the availability of the necessary nose, fenders and hood, and realized I can do this. From that second on, I no longer found myself studying other noses on other Fieros. It's gonna be controversial, and may even show up on kludge websites like "That will buff out", but I'm still excited and enthusiastic. Dobey got it right, as did the next poster. Hockaday, I love your 300ZX, I wish mine looked that good, but right now it's in dark gray primer. To the new ex-lurker, post whatever you like in the way of Fiero pics, I'm certain nobody will get too upset. You seem to be in the same boat as me, I'm at least $1,500 short of being able to order the parts I'll need. I'm not an auto body expert, either. But we have ideas we want to do to our Fieros, and your next step is to get either a professional rendering, or photo-shop. Either way, something tangible to look at.
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02:19 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
This is NOT my next Fiero nose / idea, but something I came up with right after I sold my last Camaro. stupid Murphy's law. This was also my first ever attempt at photo shop. I WILL try this someday. This solves the Camaro's similar issue of too much visual mass forward of the front wheels. Anyone wanna see my bob-tail 300ZX roadster?
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 11-01-2010).]
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02:24 PM
exoticse Member
Posts: 8650 From: Orlando, Fl Registered: Jun 2003
Dobey, I am not trying to argue anything. And I am not taking the OPs thread in any other direction either. He stated that he had been interested in a number of kits and bolt-on noses and then decided to try something his own way. He asked for opinions. Curly gave his, I responded to Curly and gave mine. Curly and I have had this discussion several times in person so he knows where I am at with it. And whether his remarks in this thread say it or not, Curly has made it clear that he is against any kit or bolt-on part. Of course now that his car has been splashed and molds made, they are effectively bolt-on parts so we have a quandry, don't we? So I was just furthering the discussions that Curly and I have had on the subject. I assume I have that right? And that doesn't make it an argument.
Curly knows I like his cars... But I also like kit cars and other bolt on parts. That is why makes the hobby great. People can do it whichever way they want and it is not wrong. That was my only point.
[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-01-2010).]
This one looks promising, now you may want to start with a fastback rear end..!
Yeah, it is a mix of a few things... I like the extractor-vent sail panel from the notch-back to form a bit of an extension to the side window graphic, but the body-color B-pillar is moved much closer to vertical than the notchback, and of course the fastback roofline would be derived from a fastback rear clip. I would also try to keep a little bit of a sill line at the base of the quarter windows... kind of like the IMSA widebody... but not quite that wide to disrupt the clean body-side surface. Something more of a flared wheel arch just subtle enough to fit 17x7.5-8" front wheels, and 18x8.5-9" rear wheels.
Actually, I envision the entire upper rear section to be a rearward opening "flipper", like the Maserati Bora. In that this case, everything aft of the side door, and above the belt line would flip upwards and back. I am still contemplating about how much of the roof section should be involved, or fixed to the roof of the spaceframe.
But, I would also like it to open traditionally, as well. (kind of like a SUV where the back glass AND the whole hatch open). I have imagined a set of three widely spaced louvers instead of a solid backlight, which I would hinge at the upper corners, just behind and under the roofline, which would open the louver assembly, and the solid, body-colored trunk lid, as a unit. The engine would be exposed with the trunk lid open, but hard to reach for service. the whole assembly flipped open would ease engine service access.
I also modified the A-pillar joint with the body, and swept the cowl line from the windshield into the door window sill at the front, and I re-located the mirror on that particular version, to match the angle of the chopped windshield line, and fill the A-pillar triangle.
I love the look of that chop, even though I think some hot-rod chops, and some of the more extreme fiero chops are a bit much. V8Archie's website says that the stinger has a 3" chop... the only thing I worry about, is whether I could fit in a fiero chopped that much. I am about 6'2". But the visual height in those pictures is great. Not too tall (stock is a bit tall) and not rescued from the compacter sort of short.
The one thing I didn't mock up, would be a mechanical change... a few inches of length chopped into the engine bay, and a modified cradle, with the wheelbase extended just slightly, to allow for a longitudinal drivetrain. I am thinking of a Subaru Flat 6 (EG33 or EZ36, and a longitudinal transaxle, tuned to about 300 or a bit more NA horsepower. The other option is for a DOHC 3.4 GM + 6MT/LSD transverse swap, and leaving the space-frame uncut.
The EG33 Subaru flat 6 was used in another Guigiaro design, the Subaru SVX... I have one of those, and it is a fairly powerful, VERY robust, butter-smooth engine... and when uncorked with proper exhaust work, it sounds amazing... nearly like a V12. Plus it is a lot cheaper to maintain than a Porsche powerplant. With low-compression pistons from the 2.2 turbo flat 4, turbocharging is definitely on the menu... and that would register 450+ horsepower. The engine has 7 robust main bearings.
I was reading the other day about John Z DeLorean's work at Pontiac with OHC engines in the 1960s... and bucking the top brass while doing it... to make the "Sprint" Pontiacs. I figure a DOHC 6-cylinder tuned to a healthy level is not too far from that Pontiac tradition, and is something a bit different than the 3800SC and SBC swaps. Ultimately high power numbers would not be the primary priority, but rather the quality of the power delivery, and weight distribution in the car.
I have a lot more... but I should probably leave this topic to the original post author. But as you can see... like Isolde, once I get on this train of thought, it isn't stopping for very long at any stations before the end of the line.
[This message has been edited by BoxerFanatic (edited 11-01-2010).]
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04:40 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
Here's a perfect example of "individuality" or re-styling.
Notice the rocker isn't your normal run-of-the-mill bolt-on. He re-styled a old idea by first raking back the rocker's opening-thus making his own identity known.
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10:20 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Another perfect example of re-styling a old idea using the IRM rocker;
Notice that Car-Lo tweaked the heck out of the rocker. It's raked back, sharp angled, and with a backwards curve in front of the rear wheel. Granted, nobody is going attempt to copy his examples, because there's too many items that are tweaked, which (by-the-way) is another reason "why" a person should re-style a bolt on; it makes it harder for others to copy. A person doing 1,2,3,4,& 5 different tweaks on one part will deter others from coping it and if somebody did-the question could be asked, "Why would you? You can't come-up with your own ideas? That said, Car-Lo could've settled for bolting on the IRM and called it a day, but instead we're right about now-aren't we.
Went for my first drive today (more than a mile). Not much custom work but hoping to make a few more. I really like Skitime's decklid window and may attempt one if I can find a spare lid. Saving for some exhaust tips at the moment. Tough to do anything when your broke
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11:06 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Here's another example of side vents. yeah, I know nearly everybody has one, but this one was made with a different angle. Was it hard? Heck no-I did it myself and had a local shop glass it.
Okay, what about taking it a step further. How about using a PISA kit and glass the entire part onto the car.
Once again, is it that hard to take it a few tweaks further verse bolting on a part? No.
Madcurl, where those scoops made from stock panels? If so, does the drivers side vent cause a problem? Also, if you know, will an 86se panel fit an 87gt? My parts car is an 86se. I'd love to try this...very nice.
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12:34 AM
PFF
System Bot
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Madcurl, where those scoops made from stock panels? If so, does the drivers side vent cause a problem? Also, if you know, will an 86se panel fit an 87gt? My parts car is an 86se. I'd love to try this...very nice.
This is how it once looked back in the day (90-91?)
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:
Now this pic is very old. My replacement Koni rear shocks and Suspension Technic springs (I think?).
Using the stock panels I went to the local Orchard hardware store bought a few items and cut them into place. It was only after my frustration with the various ones being offered at that time (1990-2) I decided to make my own style of vent. I was unaware of other company's such as Ausie were making them. I only knew IRM and the Mechem side scoops (mis-spelling). I didn't like either one because the scoops stuck outside the body.
Prior to going to Archie's I had the driver's side vent removed. It has served it's purpose and it was time for a change.
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:
Are those custom scoops on the Silver Choptop? Or are they Aus's Stage 2? I can't really tell with the lower trim attached like that, but they kind of have the shape/style of the Stage2 kit...?
It looks sweet!
(hehe... "only" a N* I get a kick out of that line )
2003 prior to leaving V8Archie's.
quote
Originally posted by Archie:
How's that?
He is leaving here tonight to drive it home.
Archie
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01:18 AM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Here's another example of customization at it's best.
The owner was feed up with the typical ho-hum kits and decided to make his signature design. Where ever this car is located-everybody knows it's 4.9's car: it's not a replica, it's a one-off.
Tks for the info Madcurl, I'm always inspired by your cars and never thought of doing this. You have given me something to do in the morning that won't cost me hundreds of $. Tks again. You the man.
Here's a example of the MadArch wide body kit from V8Archie's. Notice the rear bumper. There's at least seven changes to a restyled rear bumper.
1. Changed reflectors 2. Lower center section (between the two exhaust openings) the part is lowered. 3. The area has a vent. 4. The end corners too are lowered. 5. The body line too has been moved and lowered. 6. Side vents are added, and 7. Corvette side marker added.
The newest owner of #013 has since re-tweaked the bumper and added custom side markers.
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04:55 AM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
and called it a day, but instead we're 
right about now-aren't we. 
.JPG)
