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Short shifter question by nitroheadz28
Started on: 10-01-2010 02:06 PM
Replies: 18
Last post by: RickN on 10-02-2010 11:25 AM
nitroheadz28
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Report this Post10-01-2010 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nitroheadz28Send a Private Message to nitroheadz28Direct Link to This Post
Just curious as to why most people here opt to cut down their original shifters to physically shorten the lever, instead of installing the actual setup to shorten the throws and the lever? Do you guys feel that the stock shifting action is short enough, or?
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Report this Post10-01-2010 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CogFieroGTSend a Private Message to CogFieroGTDirect Link to This Post
I shortened my shifter on a previous manual car more for looks and it seemed more comfortable, location wise. also, i did shorten the auto shifter on my fiero for pretty much the same reasons. and I from I've seen, that would be one of the 1st things I'd do on a manual fiero.


and hey, it's free
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Report this Post10-01-2010 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyDirect Link to This Post
Most of the ones I've seen that cut the shifter, actually extend the bottom end partially as well. Although, I think most people just buy Rodney Dickman's short shifter kit.
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Fie Ro
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Report this Post10-01-2010 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoDirect Link to This Post
Actually shortening the shifter also shortens the throw as the pivot point remains the same.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post10-01-2010 03:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
Because you would have to be a girl not to be intimidated by that big honking stock shifter. I cut mine down because it looks better cut down.
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nitroheadz28
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Report this Post10-01-2010 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nitroheadz28Send a Private Message to nitroheadz28Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:

Actually shortening the shifter also shortens the throw as the pivot point remains the same.


This is what I'd think, correct me if I'm wrong. The results of cutting the stock shifter down would be:

Slightly more effort since you have less leverage on the shifter.
More comfortable for not having to move your arm as far.
Identical to stock from a performance standpoint since the actual shifts would remain the same.

I've been waiting for someone to put up an actual short shifter (not a shortened stocker) up in the mall so I can see how much it would improve shift times, not to mention look way better than the golf club sized stock one haha.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post10-01-2010 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
I have been thinking about how to make a kit to extend the bottom part of the shifter. It wouldn't be all that hard to make as long as it didn't bind the cable. Rodney sells short shifters that are extended at the bottom and he also sells a kit that you install at the trans.
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Fie Ro
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Report this Post10-01-2010 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:
This is what I'd think, correct me if I'm wrong. The results of cutting the stock shifter down would be:

Slightly more effort since you have less leverage on the shifter.
More comfortable for not having to move your arm as far.
Identical to stock from a performance standpoint since the actual shifts would remain the same.


Yep thats right..also slack in the system becomes a bit more obvious with the shorter action, thats why I rebuild the shifter itself (partly with Rodneys parts) and made tighter new teflon bushings for the tranny side as the stock plastic ones had too much play..


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8-P
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Report this Post10-01-2010 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 8-PSend a Private Message to 8-PDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:


This is what I'd think, correct me if I'm wrong. The results of cutting the stock shifter down would be:

Slightly more effort since you have less leverage on the shifter.
More comfortable for not having to move your arm as far.
Identical to stock from a performance standpoint since the actual shifts would remain the same.

I've been waiting for someone to put up an actual short shifter (not a shortened stocker) up in the mall so I can see how much it would improve shift times, not to mention look way better than the golf club sized stock one haha.



It would seem to me that shortening the length of the shifter WOULD shorten the throw, because you have to move the top end of the shift lever a shorter distance to move the bottom end of the lever the same distance...if that makes any sense.

Think of it this way, if the shifter were eight inches long, you may have to move it 5-6 inches to shift from first to second. If the shifter were five feet long (and sticking out of the sunroof ;-) you'd probably have to pull the lever 1-2 feet to shift from first to second.

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post10-01-2010 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
Short shifters are a comfort/ergonomic modification, not a performance modification.

Ultimately, shifting time is limited by the time it takes for synchronization to occur. I'd bet that shifting times with most drivers are superior with stock high-leverage shifters, because the driver will end up forcing the synchronizer with more force (at the synchronizer).

And about this cut-down versus "true-short-throw" shifter nonsense. Who cares how a smaller arc length is achieved, be it by a reduction in shift knob radius, or angular displacement.
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Report this Post10-01-2010 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for uhlanstanClick Here to Email uhlanstanSend a Private Message to uhlanstanDirect Link to This Post
,,A short shifter is only for looks ,,just shorten stock shifter ??This hurts performance ...

...lube the shifter movement points,especially the big round mount point,held by big clip ..it will wear out..
..ajust shifter using nail/drill in hole placement..,THEN ajust cables
..Replace the 2 bushing at transmission brackets(sold by rodney) helps with smooth shift
..Smooooooth shift cables,only use oil if stiff,hang them up let oil flow down..
..Synchomesh or at least synthetic oil..
..Archies slave bleed method ,pull the bleed valve ALL the way out..

..The transmissions are old in most Fiero,s,do maintenence ,if you think the above(main issues)items are a pain ,,WAIT till you pull a Fiero transmission and buy parts
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Report this Post10-01-2010 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyDirect Link to This Post
On my 88 Mera I have the Ultimate shift kit (this is how it came about). I have a shortened Sport Shifter. I also cut the arm on the shifter assembly that the shifter attaches to/rotates on and raised it up at least an inch and then made the lower section of my Sport Shifter arm an inch longer. I have probably the shortest shifting 5 speed around. Shifts fast and fine. I've given a few Fiero owners rides and they asked me how did you get your shifter action so short.

The first thing I did was raise the shifter pivot. First maybe a half inch. Next maybe 1 inch or slightly more. That did not do that much. Some. I was disapointed. So I designed the Ultimate Shift kit. The biggest gain was the Ultimate Shift kit I designed. Both together made a huge difference. My shifting length is very short. You have to get used to it some. The select action is shorter also (left to right movement). I could make the select lever shorter on the shifter assembly to make it wider again but I know how to shift it and I am OK with it. It is not terrible. I also rebuilt my shifter (that is how my shifter rebuild kits originated). I also remachined everything that moved and installed brass bushings to get the play as close to zero as I could on the shifter, cables and trans parts.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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solotwo
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Report this Post10-01-2010 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoDirect Link to This Post
I have a Rodney comp short shifter and have been using it for 9 years. Now it feels weird to shift a factory shifter. The short shifter just feels natural in height.

Steve W.
NE Grand Rapids,MI
88 coupe
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solotwo
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Report this Post10-01-2010 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoDirect Link to This Post

solotwo

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Rodney I heard Caledonia on the news. Are you high and dry? or did you get caught up in the flooding?
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Report this Post10-01-2010 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RickNClick Here to Email RickNSend a Private Message to RickNDirect Link to This Post
I purchased Rodneys short shifter and boot (both excellant quality products) but I replaced the shifter with a cut down '84 Fiero shifter. I like where the bend in the '84 shifter places the knob (closer to the steering wheel) better than Rodney's shifter, relative to my driving style/position.

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RickN
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Report this Post10-02-2010 01:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
I cut down a shifter for my Formula then added an inch to the bottom. It increased the effort required to shift but I feel it is more positive. I like the quicker shift action even though it takes a little more effort to shift. It felt awkward at first but I drive it everyday and now I would not change it back. I took an 86 SE for a drive the other day - it has the 4 speed with a stock shifter and I almost yanked the shifter out of the console - I could not believe how much easier it shifts compared to the short shifter in the Formula.
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Report this Post10-02-2010 01:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
If you just cut it you have to move your arm further than ever to shift.
Buy a real shirt shifter and have pretty much the stock shifting action just lower.
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Rodney
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Report this Post10-02-2010 05:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:

Rodney I heard Caledonia on the news. Are you high and dry? or did you get caught up in the flooding?


That was Caledonia, MN. A long way from here. Next to the Mississippi river. I'm just south of Milwaukee. Out in the country but only several minutes from Milwaukee. No sewer or water around here so development is very slow.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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RickN
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Report this Post10-02-2010 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RickNClick Here to Email RickNSend a Private Message to RickNDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Australian:

If you just cut it you have to move your arm further than ever to shift.
Buy a real shirt shifter and have pretty much the stock shifting action just lower.


Rethink this Australian, if the pivot remains unchanged hand movement becomes shorter than stock.

[This message has been edited by RickN (edited 10-02-2010).]

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