I bought what I thought was a 1987 Fiero GT and by all appearances is and I believe 100 percent to be. When I received my title it showed a coupe and then I got to looking it was a coupe according to the vin. So I ran a car fax and this is where things got funny. It basically showed the car was wrecked in 87 which I could tell the car had been wrecked at one time but it wasn't to bad so I bought it anyway. Problem was that the title looks like it was washed. It showed the coupe was totaled. This car had light panel damage by the previous owner and otherwise is an excellent condition GT with only 99,000 original miles. I took the car to the body shop today and they said the car had never been in a major accident let alone totaled. I am the 4th owner and have contacted the previous two owners who both thought they owned a GT and never thought otherwise. My vin shows my car as an E11 so it's a coupe 4cyl but I have a GT 6cyl. This vin is on both front fenders and also on the rear fastback truck portion. It is also located on the deck lid which oddly enough has an emissions sticker for a 4 cyl but it is of coarse a gt deck lid. Seems like a whole lot of trouble for a conversion don't you think? Friend of mine is a local cop and he is thinking the worst and that the GT might have been stolen and the vin from the coupe was used on the GT and stickers reproduced. Seems like a lot of trouble but hey I'm not a car thief either. Is there a hidden vin number some where on the car that would let us know what is going on here? The people I bought the car from have offered a complete refund but I bought the car as a driver and I could care less about the vin but I really don't want to be driving around a stolen car either. Also whatever happened on all of this took place in Dec of 88 when it was registered In Ark and that's when the title washing took place.

[This message has been edited by BuddaBelly (edited 09-02-2010).]

quote Originally posted by BuddaBelly: I bought what I thought was a 1987 Fiero GT and by all appearances is and I believe 100 percent to be. When I received my title it showed a coupe and then I got to looking it was a coupe according to the vin. So I ran a car fax and this is where things got funny. It basically showed the car was wrecked in 87 which I could tell the car had been wrecked at one time but it wasn't to bad so I bought it anyway. Problem was that the title looks like it was washed. It showed the coupe was totaled. This car had light panel damage by the previous owner and otherwise is an excellent condition GT with only 99,000 original miles. I took the car to the body shop today and they said the car had never been in a major accident let alone totaled. I am the 4th owner and have contacted the previous two owners who both thought they owned a GT and never thought otherwise. My vin shows my car as an E11 so it's a coupe 4cyl but I have a GT 6cyl. This vin is on both front fenders and also on the rear fastback truck portion. It is also located on the deck lid which oddly enough has an emissions sticker for a 4 cyl but it is of coarse a gt deck lid. Seems like a whole lot of trouble for a conversion don't you think? Friend of mine is a local cop and he is thinking the worst and that the GT might have been stolen and the vin from the coupe was used on the GT and stickers reproduced. Seems like a lot of trouble but hey I'm not a car thief either. Is there a hidden vin number some where on the car that would let us know what is going on here? The people I bought the car from have offered a complete refund but I bought the car as a driver and I could care less about the vin but I really don't want to be driving around a stolen car either. Also whatever happened on all of this took place in Dec of 88 when it was registered In Ark and that's when the title washing took place.

Should be a vin somewhere on the spaceframe. And someone could have just done a gt upgrade and called it a gt *it really is*

I will look at the frame tomorrow to see if I can find any numbers. I'm not sure if my lift will go low enough to get under the car but maybe I can see it from the pit. By upgrade do you mean factory gt upgrade or owner upgrade? If a person did this they did a heck of a job. Dash all looks 100 percent GT too. Also has rear defrost and didn't think that was an option on the base coupe.

quote Originally posted by BuddaBelly: I will look at the frame tomorrow to see if I can find any numbers. I'm not sure if my lift will go low enough to get under the car but maybe I can see it from the pit. By upgrade do you mean factory gt upgrade or owner upgrade? If a person did this they did a heck of a job. Dash all looks 100 percent GT too. Also has rear defrost and didn't think that was an option on the base coupe.

Person did the upgrade. Possibly had a complete gt donor. And what do you mean by "gt dash"?

I guess that's where we are confused. You have a 87 coupe 'notch back' that is totaled and you rebuild it with GT? I really hope I'm wrong. By GT dash I mean it's not the base coupe dash. I will just search for another number tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by BuddaBelly (edited 09-02-2010).]

dashes were the same. only diff was optional ralley gauges and ofcourse creature comforts aka anchors such as ac, power windows mirrors.

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In recent times, the custom aftermarket car/automobile roadwheel has become a status symbol. These wheels are often incorrectly referred to as "rims". The term "rim" is incorrect because the rim is only the outer portion of a wheel (where the tire is mounted )

I don't think you will find one on the frame of the car.
The RPO sticker in the front, the drivers side door sticker and below the drives side front speaker on the air duck is a vin plate. These are other places for a vin number.

quote Originally posted by BuddaBelly: I bought what I thought was a 1987 Fiero GT and by all appearances is and I believe 100 percent to be. When I received my title it showed a coupe and then I got to looking it was a coupe according to the vin. So I ran a car fax and this is where things got funny. It basically showed the car was wrecked in 87 which I could tell the car had been wrecked at one time but it wasn't to bad so I bought it anyway. Problem was that the title looks like it was washed. It showed the coupe was totaled. This car had light panel damage by the previous owner and otherwise is an excellent condition GT with only 99,000 original miles. I took the car to the body shop today and they said the car had never been in a major accident let alone totaled. I am the 4th owner and have contacted the previous two owners who both thought they owned a GT and never thought otherwise. My vin shows my car as an E11 so it's a coupe 4cyl but I have a GT 6cyl. This vin is on both front fenders and also on the rear fastback truck portion. It is also located on the deck lid which oddly enough has an emissions sticker for a 4 cyl but it is of coarse a gt deck lid. Seems like a whole lot of trouble for a conversion don't you think? Friend of mine is a local cop and he is thinking the worst and that the GT might have been stolen and the vin from the coupe was used on the GT and stickers reproduced. Seems like a lot of trouble but hey I'm not a car thief either. Is there a hidden vin number some where on the car that would let us know what is going on here? The people I bought the car from have offered a complete refund but I bought the car as a driver and I could care less about the vin but I really don't want to be driving around a stolen car either. Also whatever happened on all of this took place in Dec of 88 when it was registered In Ark and that's when the title washing took place.

There should NOT be a coupe VIN on a fastback decklid. Someone somehow swapped the stickers, which I believe is a no-no. All the panels on an 87 or 88 should have VIN's on them, so you might find one they missed. The RPO sheet under the hood should have the complete VIN and all the RPO codes, too.

What are the fifth, eighth, and tenth characters of the VIN?

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: The RPO sticker in the front, the drivers side door sticker and below the drives side front speaker on the air duck is a vin plate. These are other places for a vin number.

I agree... the one place it can't be fudged is the one underneath the driver's speaker. You physically have to remove the speaker and look down into the hole. The VIN number is stamped directly into the metal on the dash support crossmember, not rivetted. Double check to see if it corresponds with the VIN plate rivetted at the base of the windshield.

I will look a little later when I get a few extra minutes. I suspect something funny has gone on with this car. Anyway I will post a photo of the deck lid so you guys can see what I see. Paint also looked original on the underside of the deck lid but the car was repainted 3 years ago.

I have found in the past that someshops and sale yards call all fieros(coupes) as they are two door bodies.
(fast back)(or GT) is only body style. For what ever it is worth.

[This message has been edited by 87V6GT (edited 09-02-2010).]

I have an 86 that I have torn the dash apart a couple of times. I have found VIN stickers on the steering column, in the gauge cluster, In the dash pod and several other places.

Unless I misunderstood - I believe that someone did a GT conversion but somehow transferred the old coupe stickers onto the parts. I have seen several car totaled with only body panel damage. Perhaps the salvage yard wanted to protect itself when it rebuilt the car. I know one around here that was very sensitive about VINs on parts he sold. He told his worker never to allow a part out of the yard with a VIN sticker on it.

Ok here is an update. The frame itself is for sure a 4 cyl coupe. I pulled the speaker and the vin was the same and the vin plates show no signs of ever being tampered with. We ran the RPO numbers and the car comes back as a base model with air and 5 speed. It is now an auto. Whoever did the work did a great job and it fooled all the previous owners. Now with that said the people I bought the car from feel like they misrepresented the car and have offered a refund but I'm not going to do that as it's a nice car and I bought it for my wife and she already loves it. I guess what seemed fishy to me was that all the vin stickers were correct and in all the right places but for a 4 cyl car. I will post a few pictures later so everyone can see why I was even concerned.

quote Originally posted by ARKaiser: I know one around here that was very sensitive about VINs on parts he sold. He told his worker never to allow a part out of the yard with a VIN sticker on it.

Usually that means they're dealing in stolen parts, and don't want the parts traced back to them.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: What are the fifth, eighth, and tenth characters of the VIN?

The reason RWDPLZ asks you that question, BuddaBelly, is that from your answers to it, we then can tell you the model your Fiero originally was (5th digit of the VIN), the engine it originally came with (8th digit), and the year of the Fiero you have (10th digit).

More specifically...

If, for example, the 5th digit of your Fiero's VIN is "G," then your Fiero originally was a GT, and the 8th digit must be a "9," designating the original presence of a 2.8L V6 in your Fiero (simply because no 4-cylinder GTs ever were offered for sale to the general public).

If your Fiero was represented to you correctly as being an `87, then regardless of the model of Fiero it was (whether a GT or something else), and regardless of the engine it originally came with (be it the V6 or the 4-cylinder), the 10th digit of the VIN should be an "H," meaning your Fiero is a 1987.

I'm sorry I must have missed this post. We already know that the vin indicates a 4 cyl coupe 87 model. RPO's say it was a 5 speed car (mine is 6cyl Auto). Car was obviously converted but they went through a lot of trouble with the vin stickers. RPO also says car was black and mine is black. Oh and my fifth, eighth and tenth digits are E R H

[This message has been edited by BuddaBelly (edited 09-06-2010).]

I don't know about Oklahoma, but in Georgia, all Fieros are titled as Coupe irregardless of outside trim. It's a 2 seater, so it's a coupe, not a Sedan. The VIN plate underneath the left front speaker should match the one just above it in the windshield and show no evidence of tampering.

The vin plates match. I just need to post up some pics tomorrow of how far they went to make the vin stickers look perfect. I will post them in the morning.

I dont know if they stopped doing this in 87 but every body pannel should have a VIN sticker on them..

Yup my car has all the stickers with the right vin just everything is a GT. Even the deck lid has the correct vin sticker and a 4 cyl emissions sticker. If cars could talk the things they would say???

Any pics?

pics and how about some of the vin numbers?

You aren't looking at an 87 SE? This is a fastback, not a notchback, correct?

From I can remember...

"Total" wreck mean anytime the cost to fix damage = xx% blue book value for old cars. As low as 50% BB value (BBV) at some insurance co.
Car = 2000 BBV
then $1000 cost damage will "Total" the car.
It doesn't take to "total the car" either... "Fender bender" will can to it.

VIN Tag starting in 1987. All parts with easy to remove, like fenders and hood, and major part, like engine and trans, get VIN tag.

Note there are VIN that can be "wrong" from factory/dealer. Likely example:
Car was built to be one thing but order charge at factory. It happens...
Car was built coup and dealer upgrade it. And note... Dealer Can get new VIN tag.

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The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

It isn't that uncommon to do a total option package upgrade from the base model coupe to full blown highly optioned GT... I have done this exact upgrade on my 88 base model coupe... When I did mine, the car was already 13 years old and I never cared what the vins on all the replaced panels said since my state didn't inspect them.

Now if this car underwent a total option upgrade when it was less than a couple years old, them I would assume all the vins on the upgraded panels were replaced to match the vehicle vin and pass most inspections.

When I moved to KY, the DMV had to inspect my "GT Clone" and the only change they made was to put the "cylinders" designation to 8 vs. the 4 since it had a V8 in it.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: I agree... the one place it can't be fudged is the one underneath the driver's speaker. You physically have to remove the speaker and look down into the hole. The VIN number is stamped directly into the metal on the dash support crossmember, not rivetted. Double check to see if it corresponds with the VIN plate rivetted at the base of the windshield.

This is not correct. The VIN that you looked at under the speaker IS in fact riveted on and can be easily changed as all the others.

It sounds to me like someone upgraded the car into a GT and put all the original VIN stickers on the car. Which although it was mis-represented it was the LEGAL thing to do. The car can never properly be called a GT if it was born a coupe despite having all the identical parts of a GT.

If it was converted it was done when it was wrecked. I have contacted all the owners back until 1990 and they all thought they owned a GT Fastback. I have some pics so give me a few and I will get them uploaded then you guys can make the call.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: This is not correct. The VIN that you looked at under the speaker IS in fact riveted on and can be easily changed as all the others. It sounds to me like someone upgraded the car into a GT and put all the original VIN stickers on the car. Which although it was mis-represented it was the LEGAL thing to do. The car can never properly be called a GT if it was born a coupe despite having all the identical parts of a GT.

I think my car was stamped. It's on the inner dash member.

quote Originally posted by 02greens10: I think my car was stamped. It's on the inner dash member.

I am pretty sure it is riveted on.

To me, it sounds like a combination of things : -

The body style was probably changed first, hence the 4cyl emissions sticker on the decklid.

Possibly swapped to a V6 auto at a later date, some time between 1988 and 1990?

Here is a video of the day we brought it home. Nothing crazy just a normal drive down the highway. My truck has mud tires so that's all you can hear. Car was bought for my wife to replace her motorcycle. She is already clamoring for more power. I will have some vin pics shortly. As you can see from the photos and video we clearly thought our car was a GT. Either way my wife loves the car and it's in great condition and it's a driver not some show car. I may never know what this cars real history is, but one this is for sure... it is not a 4 cyl 5 speed notch back anymore even though that's what the VIN says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qBuT_t36lo

quote Originally posted by 02greens10: I think my car was stamped. It's on the inner dash member.

The VIN plate under the driver's speaker hole is identical to the one on the windshield, it's just flat instead of being bent.

I have yet to see a VIN actually stamped into the dash member.

And here are some pics of the vin stickers. Car was repainted couple years ago so some of them were painted over.

[This message has been edited by BuddaBelly (edited 09-07-2010).]

Oh, maybe the emissions sticker had to be there for emissions testing? Just guessing. Very nice conversion though!

quote Originally posted by BuddaBelly:

As soon as I see the VIN R I know it's a 4 banger and the "E" tells me it's a coupe, (not a GT).

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 09-07-2010).]

So the car was originally a black 87 base coupe. The stickers that were painted over, may have the GT's original VIN on them, because it looks like they must have swapped the entire body, and most of the interior, off the GT.

No those vin stickers match too (ones on the front fenders). The ones that have paint on them are just over spray and are still legible. It even has the rear defrost that I'm not sure was even an option on the base model. This has been my point about this car all along. Someone went way beyond what was needed to do a conversion.

[This message has been edited by BuddaBelly (edited 09-07-2010).]

the rear defrost was a option on the 87 base i have one in mine

quote Originally posted by jscott1: The VIN plate under the driver's speaker hole is identical to the one on the windshield, it's just flat instead of being bent. I have yet to see a VIN actually stamped into the dash member.

I'm at work now but I will look when I get home.(It's apart so I just have to look). From memory I am 99% sure it is stamped into the body metal not riveted.

on the rear upper frame rails there is the cars serial number stamped into the rail face if the last 6 digits match the vin the car is legit if not you have a stollen car it is very easy to re vin a car if you have the proper rivits and a good heat gun

As stated before, the VIN tag on the support under the dash speaker is riveted on, at least it is on 86 & 87. I have both in my tool box somewhere! It's from my 87GT that was rotted out and we stripped it down to just the frame and sent that to the crusher. I was going to put the tags on the 86GT frame donor but figured, why bother, it is what it is, a 87GT on a 86GT frame. Plus the 86 had way lower miles . It's not hard to swap them from car to car. If i had done it, nobody would ever know because all the other 87 parts are on the 86 too.
I guess the important thing is you like it, you don’t feel like you got screwed by the PO and you can register it without issue. Other than that who cares, it is what it is... a nice looking GT.