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Need Help with emissions test in nyc... please read.. by freedom0226
Started on: 06-18-2010 02:47 AM
Replies: 10
Last post by: Fieroseverywhere on 06-24-2010 10:29 AM
freedom0226
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Report this Post06-18-2010 02:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for freedom0226Click Here to Email freedom0226Send a Private Message to freedom0226Direct Link to This Post
first off let me just say thank you for all previous help ive gotten from others in the past. im in need of some real help here. ive been soo happy with my 88 fiero t top 5 speed it runs great i love it. of course i did a car fax before i bought it and everything was clean. 3-4 months later i get a letter from the dmv saying that the car was a salvaged title in 1994 fixed in 1998 and title was given back clean for florida the next owner was in PA ( guy i bought the car from ) he was able to get a clean title and register the car for years . now i bring the car to nyc and the salvage title comes up again. dmv is saying i need to bring it in for a dmv inspection before i can be issued a clean nyc title and they made a mistake by registering it in the first place. since its a different state they want to do the salvage test again. nothing in the car is stolen so they wont seize the car but i know i wont pass emissions test im running rather rich at idle..

ive done many searches and read many threads on the topic i know its my HC and c02 only when idle..

[This message has been edited by freedom0226 (edited 06-22-2010).]

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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post06-18-2010 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
HC = unburned fuel
Common causes of high HC are faulty ignition system (plugs, wires, dist cap/rotor, coil), bad fuel pressure regulator (fuel pressure too high), bad O2, bad CTS or MAT, bad spray pattern or leaking injectors, engine misfires, excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chambers, or faulty evaporative control systems (saturated vapor canister, ect). Basically anything that can cause an incomplete burn of the air fuel mix or a misfire (lean or rich).

High HC combined with high CO is almost always caused by a rich condition and/or misfire. The usual suspects are the injectors, FPR, O2 sensor, exhaust leaks upstream of the O2, vacume leaks or really any source of unmetered air.

This is a fantastic article that should help quite a bit...
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56.pdf
This article does more then just give you a list or items to check. It goes more into the reasons why. Highly recommended!

Based on what you've said it sounds like your running rich. Find the source of that and your emissions problems should be solved. I'd check your exhaust manifolds and "Y" pipe for cracks/leaks, engine vacume leaks, O2 function or leaks at the bung, CTS and MAT reading correct temps, ignition system function, and injector spray pattern and leaks. I just went through this myself but mine ended up being a very uncommon problem. Intake air temps too low and the PCM could not compensate. Hope this helps.

EDIT: Looks like you just need a DYNO test.
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/vehsafe.htm#einspect

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 06-18-2010).]

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Hockaday
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Report this Post06-18-2010 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
fieros don't need emissions tests in ny. only cars..90 or 95 plus do.
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Report this Post06-18-2010 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
Accordihg to what I read (linked above) any car newer then 25 years old needs testing. So 86-88 would need a test? I may wrong but I would check into it to be sure before scheduling the inspection.

Must be nice to have the rolling cutoff. Here in Oregon, absolutely any vehicle newer then 74 needs testing. The good news is its just an idle speed "sniffer" test for 75-95 and scanner/idle speed "sniffer" for 96-current (anything newer then 5 years old is exempt). The standards are pretty easy to reach. There is no saftey inspection either, just emissions at idle and only in 3 counties in the state. Tags a good for 2 years so testing every other year covers you.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 06-18-2010).]

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HI-TECH
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Report this Post06-18-2010 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HI-TECHClick Here to visit HI-TECH's HomePageClick Here to Email HI-TECHSend a Private Message to HI-TECHDirect Link to This Post
a failing headgasket will also lead to produce excessive hydrocarbons
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freedom0226
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Report this Post06-19-2010 12:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for freedom0226Click Here to Email freedom0226Send a Private Message to freedom0226Direct Link to This Post
i just came from a shop to get a better idea of how rich im running. they ran the dyno test twice and both times came up as void . i still had to pay the fee for the test even tho i came out empty handed. shop told me to do a intake cleaning but whats the point if the dyno wouldnt even give me any readings.. i am running rich you can smell the fuel when the car first turns on but goes right away and my vacuum is fine egr is fine and i have no codes.. i think i just got jerked for a dyno test that didnt work due to there part.
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katore8105
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Report this Post06-19-2010 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katore8105Click Here to visit katore8105's HomePageSend a Private Message to katore8105Direct Link to This Post
I would not have payed. I have never had to get an emissions test in NYS. Most of my vehicles have been 95 or older.

 
quote
Originally posted by Hockaday:

fieros don't need emissions tests in ny. only cars..90 or 95 plus do.


96+ OBDII vehicles

[This message has been edited by katore8105 (edited 06-30-2010).]

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freedom0226
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Report this Post06-21-2010 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for freedom0226Click Here to Email freedom0226Send a Private Message to freedom0226Direct Link to This Post
ok so im reading alot of threads about the fuel smell i get and running rich.. i did a tune up today..

spark plugs , wires, pcv , fuel filter , oil filter / change , distributor cap and rotor. car runs a little better but still running rich and similar to others im getting some white dust when the i first turn the car on.. other than that i have no idle issues the car runs fine...

i bought the intake manifold gaskets today and will be taking the plenum off to check for leaky fuel injectors. my only guess is fuel in the cylinder when its not on a power stroke and causing the raw fuel smell. Hydro carbons

can anyone talk on the matter and tell me if im going the right way here >?>
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freedom0226
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Report this Post06-22-2010 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for freedom0226Click Here to Email freedom0226Send a Private Message to freedom0226Direct Link to This Post
i have been reading endless threads on my running pig rich problem.....

vacum is good and steady. i took the intake apart today and pressure tested the fuel injectors they hold a good 40in for 20 minutes so good but im still going to test for leaks tomorrow . no fuel in the diaphram no leaky cold start injectors and no hydro carbons when i put that sniffer stick in the intake ports ..

no codes come up so all sensors are fine. but im still going to replace the 02 and cts tomorrow also .

but when i put the sniffer thing ( sorry dont know the name ) in the oil fill hole guess what... im getting crazy hc's in the crank case. im thinking i have to do a compression test and check if the rings on the pistons are letting fuel down there... tell me what you think and what should i do. am i on the right path here..


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freedom0226
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Report this Post06-23-2010 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for freedom0226Click Here to Email freedom0226Send a Private Message to freedom0226Direct Link to This Post
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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post06-24-2010 10:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
Are you using the stock fiero intake filter canister? Was this test performed when the car was warm? Specifically coolant temps above 180 degrees? If not then what I'm about to say may change a bit...

-O2 = high - Possible combustion problem or lean condition, likely enough to cause a misfire which increases HC dramatically. Check for exhaust leak upstream of O2 sensor, vacume leak after air metering, ect. Any source of air the MAT/MAP are not detecting. An incomplete burn of the air/fuel mix will also leave extra O2 in the exhaust.

-CO = well within range. - I do not see a rich condition based on those readings.

-CO2 is low. Indicates a combustion problem. Efficiant combustion is not taking place. When properly burned fuel and air should leave heavy amount of CO2 in the exhaust. 15% is the theoretical maximum. 12-14.5% (.12-.145 on your machine) is a good range to shoot for. Your at 9%.

-HC is really high. Possible incomplete combustion, probably causing above^^^. Possibly serious carbon buildup in the cylinders. Deffinately run a compression test. Look for high compression as a indication of heavy carbon buildup. Low compression indicates sealing problems (rings, valves, valve seals, ect.). Check ignition coil, grounds, ect as sources of deminished spark energy. I'm leaning towards a lean misfire as your underlying problem. Excess carbon buildup can cause HC to be hidden in the porus carbon, releasing it on exhaust stroke unburned. I would focus my efforts on the high HC. Once that is worked out you will find the other levels are much closer to what they should be.

-NOX is low. Indicates low combustion temps or very rich or lean condition. Most likely lean as stated above.

You CO levels do not indicate an rich condition to me. Those levels should easily pass... I think what your smelling is unburned fuel, not too much fuel. Yes, there is a difference but they smell similar.
Check all possible combustion problem sources. Your on the right track so far. Wish I would have had that equipment when I was working on mine. Having readouts of 6 gases makes diagnosing much easier. I had 3.

EDIT: Hows your base timing? New fuel or old fuel? How did your old spark plugs look? Were they really dirty and/or worn? Any particular cylinder look worse then others?

Seeing HC in the oil fill isn't out of the ordinary. Fuel is not the only source of HC. Dirty oil and/or crankcase can also cause higher then normal levels. As long as your rings, valve seats/seals are good, and your PCV is not stuck open this should not be a problem. Since your PCV is new and you have a fresh oil/filter change you can eliminate these. You can clean the crankcase if you want. It should help a bit. Seafoam works OK. I'd look into other options for this though. I'd do this later, after you've checked compression and other sources of incomplete ignition.

If your injectors hold pressure then they are not leaking. This does not tell you how the spray pattern is though. A bad pattern could still have the injectors dripping fuel instead of atomizing it. Liquid fuel does not burn well. Check that out however you can. Also a completely clogged or not electrically working injector will hold pressure. But it will not spray fuel at all which could lead to a lean condition. If possible, you can do a power balance test. Might be easier to have then tested by a shop.

If possible, try to get a scanner on the car. Look at the O2 sensor readings, fuel intergrator/block learn values, CTS readings, MAT readings, and throttle position readings. This can really help narrow it down further. CTS and MAT can be tested for accuracy very easily with an OHM meter and thermometer. TPS should be checked through its full range. Dead spots or incorrect readings can cause many problems.

One last thing to try. Can you redo the sniffer before the cat? Possibly at the O2 bung? The CAT can sometimes mask other problems.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 06-24-2010).]

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