Pics, or all you did this weekend was BS and stare at your motor...

Oh yeah, and I OWN PAGE 3!

Even I worked on my car this weekend, removed the rest of the crapola in the engine bay, and played with the shifter assembly..
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Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 05-09-2010).]

Real car guys can't stare at an engine for more than 10 seconds without grabbing either a wrench or a pen and notepad.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 05-10-2010).]

I know they were painting the engine bay this weekend, maybe they were overcome by beer and fumes..

Greeting from the Siberia of North America! Hi Isolde, Tony and Aaron... you guys crack me up!

Mother Day Weekend... ah yes... keep Wife happy, keep Mom happy, Keep Sister happy and all should be well... And indeed it was! A little slow to post
due to family obligations but Saturday did yield some results.. Including some pics of the much anticipated WCF reverse alternator mount prototype!
But first, nothing like a car show to get things going bright and early...

Spokane Valley Car Show

Tony Kania had his beautiful 87 there, complete with a lot of new stuff from TLG... If you haven't checked out their stuff you need to. Oslo couldn't
have picked a nicer car to demo with! He had the TLG flyers there and displayed the upgrades nicely. Here is a shot of the 3.1 Tony has in his car.
Clean enough to eat off of or have surgery on... whichever you choose.. This bay is CLEAN! and I mean CLEAN!



A side shot.... Looking good Tony! There was a lot of nice rides there but I guess I am partial... This was certainly one of the sweetest!! Tony's
neighbor has his Ferrari there too. Right next to the GT. I will let Tony pipe in with his thoughts.. Amazing how close the two are from a style and
mechanical layout perspective...



Reverse ALternator Mount from WCF!

OK, we got the prototype mount and for the reverse alternator and Joe had it mounted up. It is extremely well built and just needs a little minor tweeking. The quality is top-notch
of course and it looks to be very strong...



Here is a "end view" so you can see the quality... Very heavy duty and really will do the job nicely. Thanks again Chris at WCF!! Very cool!!



Progress Report

OK, I finished the last cleaning of the engine bay and after cleaning up went over the entire bay and trunk with lacqer thinner to get oil or residue
off. Then, back in the bay for painting with "satin" black POR15. Amazing stuff!! The Satin finish dries to an almost identical factory sheen with no
gloss. The paint flows out and lays down nice despite my feeble brush painting skills. Look really good!! Still "wet" in this pic...



While I was painting etc... Joe modded the dipstick tube so it can be reached and accessed in its tight position. Joe (Fieroking) knows what he doing with a welder and cutting
wheel. Looks like factory!



The night before (Friday) I took a Dremel, Rum and hand polish to the throttle body. Really pleased with how it turned out. I just cleaned the body on
most of it and then polished the back actuator cover (think that is what it is called) The rum was used to lubricate my joints and keep my Dremel hand
steady! No gummy bears were consumed with the Rum... I promise...



After that was done, I pulled the Valve covers and knocked of the casting burrs and painted bright silver with high temp paint. They really look a lot
better than the original bare aluminum finish ~ Though you won't be able to see much of them due to the engine cover. In the pics above you can also
see how Joe is making progress on the wiring layout



All in all a good weekend even if it was cut short by the festivities... Joe is doing more harness and planning work and getting ready to go on the
cool mods we have for the engine bay!

Thanks for watching my build...

Aaron.... we keep missing each other. Glad to hear you are making headway on the 3800 build (Check out Aarons build here:

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/101909.html)

Till next weekend!

Jeff

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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 05-10-2010).]

Once again, thanks for the kind words. We are truely blessed here in the "Siberia of North America."

Also, thanks for the pics. I am going to start a thread about the similarities of my neighbor's Ferrari to the Fiero. It will blow you away on just how much the Fiero looks like his Ferrari. By the way, she is a 1975 Ferrari Dino. One of 73. One of 8 in America. 42,000 miles. The only Bertone styled Ferrari. The first Ferrari with a true all Ferrari designed engine.

Anyhow, I will hit you up in a day or two. I want to come put in some work this weekend with you guys.

Tony

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: While I was painting etc... Joe modded the dipstick tube so it can be reached and accessed in its tight position. Joe (Fieroking) knows what he doing with a welder and cutting wheel. Looks like factory!

I would suggest putting an insulation around the dipstick tube, like a spark plug wire cover. That manifold will get hot enough to bake oil on the walls of the tube that could constantly flake off into the sump. You could even use a single layer of header wrap? The stock dip stick can even get hot enough to burn oil on it.

Looking good

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-11-2010).]

Thanks for the input about the dip stick tube. I will put some insulation around it to protect it.

Joe Sokol

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

Awsome !!! completely AWSOME !!!!

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http://www.blackwidowfiero.com

Rickady....You are such a big help in Jeff's project.

I went to FieroKing's today to help out a little with the build. And I do mean a little. Pretty much just listened to Joe's wisdom.

I removed the hood, radiator, and the spare tire tub. Dogcreek has a really clean car. Just no rust, or grime to weld in the fasteners. The hood came off to make it easier to remove the radiator. The radiator came out to make way for a nice aluminum refridgerator to help keep this beast cool. And, with the plastic tub removed, it will make it easier (yeah, right? ) to install the power steering.

Joe plugged away at the wiring to mate the 5.3 to everything! Quite a task, but it is looking better than factory. Things are beginning to get tucked away into their final resting places.

Almost forgot, got poly greased, and installed into the 88 rear suspension pieces. Powder coating makes everything easier.

I should have taken some pics, but actually forgot to. I may show up for a bit tomorrow. I want Dogcreek to get his car back!

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All I can say is INW Fiero club guys FLIPPIN ROCK!!!!! (substitute words as needed)

Thank You Tony!!! and of course Joe who is the "mastermind" on this project!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 05-16-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Rickady....You are such a big help in Jeff's project. I went to FieroKing's today to help out a little with the build. And I do mean a little. Pretty much just listened to Joe's wisdom. I removed the hood, radiator, and the spare tire tub. Dogcreek has a really clean car. Just no rust, or grime to weld in the fasteners. The hood came off to make it easier to remove the radiator. The radiator came out to make way for a nice aluminum refridgerator to help keep this beast cool. And, with the plastic tub removed, it will make it easier (yeah, right? ) to install the power steering. Joe plugged away at the wiring to mate the 5.3 to everything! Quite a task, but it is looking better than factory. Things are beginning to get tucked away into their final resting places. Almost forgot, got poly greased, and installed into the 88 rear suspension pieces. Powder coating makes everything easier. I should have taken some pics, but actually forgot to. I may show up for a bit tomorrow. I want Dogcreek to get his car back!

Thanks. I try to help when I can.

I put polly in my 88 and HIGHLY recommend installing grease zerks. West Coast Fiero provides the zerks and modifies the metal sleeves for the zerks. I even put them on the front poly sway bar bushings. The only bushings I could not use zerks on were the rear toe links. I would like to drill a VERY small hole thru the head of the bolt half way down the center line of the bolt and to the center of the sleeve to grease the bushings. But I don't have the right equipment to do it.

Gents and Ladies,

An incredible weekend of progress on the "PORVETT" LS4 swap... Joe made a lot of headway on his own this week as witnessed by the following update pics... And even more awesome is the support we got from INW Fiero guys... Tony, Aaron, Justin... you guys are the BEST! Tony "surgically" prepared the front bay for the many changes to come!! YO Tony!! YOU ROCK!

And as we progress.... a great picture of how deep Joe (Fieroking) gets into his builds!

And here... Fred Flintstone beware.... this is the 1 "Joe power" Fiero... Though the picture doesn't show it... his feet were really moving!!! LOL



My friend Andy at "Valentine Engineering" (MaverickTurbos.com) managed to bend the newly front mounted pipe to fit and Joe fabbed the angle, plate and gasket... removed the "soft plug" to mount the a new "front mounted filler neck"...it is a beauty!



Joe got busy with some help from parts from Aaron, on a reverse "bellcrank" mechanism to reverse the shift as is need when going from the TH125... slick stuff!!... and it moves with precision! plus it is VERY easy on the eyes!!



Joe cut and capped the old filler neck and put in a "bleeder" to assist taking air out of the complex coolant system.... (Thanks again Rick!!)



OK... before you get wound up... LOL... Here is MY choice of the firewall cover and mods... Joe is very cool and always say's "its your car," So.... I have chosen red powdercoated diamond plate as the firewall cover, over two coats of aluminized sound damper material.... Now don't judge... Until you have seen the whole "red, black, and silver" layout....



OK... I worked on a few things...and as always learned a LOT... I cleaned, prepped and painted the axle shafts... they look pretty good over all... (they are made of parts from 7 different cars)



And now for our newest INW Fiero Member and 13 year Fiero owner and "bodywork" guy AND Pennock's member... Justin!! He is a WRENCH and knows his Fiero's well... Here he is removing the master cylinder and booster.... He is in good enough shape to go into the forward bay and with much finesse remove the MS and the booster! If I went in.... welll, can you say "defibrillater" or "Jaws of life?"



AND... Justin jumps all over the the removal of the throttle cable which entails removing the majority of the center console and skeleton... He found $5 bucks in change...add that to the $17 bucks I found in here earlier and I am up to $22 bucks!!! Wooo Hoo! I will buy an oil change...Almost!!




So Fiero Fiends.... That is it for the weekend..... We are like a snowbal now.... picking up speed and support from all of the great guys in the INW Fiero club and fellow LS4 builders... We really appreciate all the feedback and advice!


Till next weekend... Jeff

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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 05-17-2010).]

Look at them sexy axles!!!!!

Yes, it does seem as if we have some of the best Fiero folks up here in the Inland Northwest. Nice of the "new guy" Justin helping out. He, he, he,. It is always nice to add knowledge and experience to any situation, and Justin seems to have both, along with a great attitude.

The LS4 build is coming along nicely. I just want to see you get on the road. Same with Aaron. Throw me in coach, let's get this done! Where do you want me? I swear, I am nearly as excited as you to see your projects take off. A great year is ahead of us...

You know, if it weren't for the ladies in our lives, we would probably not be in the position that we are in when it involves the Fiero. So, a big thanks also goes out to all the Inland Northwest Fiero Club Ladies for the patience, and understanding that you show towards us when we get that crazy look in our eyes.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 05-17-2010).]

Hear ~ hear on the ladies..... Thanks Tony... What they put up with is amazing!! At least they know where we are !! LOL

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: Hear ~ hear on the ladies..... Thanks Tony... What they put up with is amazing!! At least they know where we are !! LOL

This is why every guy should have a shop. She knows were your at and you are not paying rent on a bar stool LOL

heh heh.... Right you are Justin! Thanks again for all your capable help... For those interested, the fun will be at Joe's on Saturday starting around 10am.... I have a ton of interior stuff cooking including a way to fab the tap shift switches to the Grant wheel.... (Thanks for the input Rick!)

I'll bet Joe can keep all of us busy again!!! INW Fiero people ROCK!! Aaron...if you need any help on either day let us all know... I know you are making headway... I can come over Sunday if you like... I work cheap and as most say... "I am easy on the eyes" NOT ~NOT ~NOT

Jeff

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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 05-19-2010).]

Wow, I'm really impressed with your progress so far! I'll be at NW Fiero Fest, so I'll hopefully be seeing this beauty finished there.

Any news on the build? Any progress is progress.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Any news on the build? Any progress is progress.

FieroKing is always working on the LS4! It is not the weekend yet, and Dogcreek really can't wait until it is done. I believe that with the help of the Inland Northwest fiero Club, Dogcreek and his beautiful wife will be blowing the doors off of my 87GT very shortly. (Maybe I should sabatoge the build when I show up to help next time? I really don't want my doors blown off! )

See you guys this weekend!

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, then get a bigger cam :-)

Greetings all!

Well we have made some progress! I was just late in posting due to commitments every night this week. But both Saturday and Sunday yielded progress… So, here we go….

SATURDAY

Here Joe has the firewall cover laid out with ECM and TCM isolation stands. Isolating them protects the boxes from a condition that Joe described as a faulted ground.



He used nice heavy duty isolator standoffs which also allow some air to circulate behind each unit; Pic’s don’t do them justice! They look real sharp…



OK… so here she is mounted (sounded quite naughty… my apologies) looks great and custom fit.



A shot of the new fuse location and system, out of a Beretta? Joe will have to correct me… So that is it Saturday and the first ten minutes after getting there.



Truth be told, the night before (Friday) the bride and I were invited to a neighbors “house party.” I didn’t plan to stay until 1:30am, but we did. I didn’t plan to drink a bit and then dance to 70’s vinyl for three hours, but I did…. So I show up at Joe's the next morning and for the life of me I can’t get anything right.. I broke a thing or two and told Joe “you might as well send me home as I am useless.” Well he disagreed and gave me some tasks that even I couldn’t screw up… The rest of the day went well with me (with Joe’s help) getting the e-brake cable out, stripping the rest of the front bay and cleaning it up.

SUNDAY



So… I got the headlight assemblies out, disassembled, cleaned and painted them re-painted the surrounds, clean the stainless lamp retention rings and by golly I wasn’t as useless as I thought [note to self… you are 50, you can no longer party until O’dark-thirty in the morning…you have a Fiero to work on]

Here is the primo 2002 Camaro rack Joe got for the Power Steering conversion. We also got the plate adapter from West Coast Fiero’s… once again, excellent workmanship and finish. WCF rules in my book!



Once the bay was brushed, cleaned and degreased, Joe made the new front chassis ground… Very ingenious way to get a GOOD permanent ground…



And last but not least… the rear suspension is loosely mounted and man it looks really nice… Remember, my “theme” for the engine and suspension is red, black and silver so this should match what you can see of the firewall very nicely…



OK… so I guess better late than never! We had a great weekend on the car, and this week we celebrated a most beautiful and nice ladies American Citizenship (You know who you are Anne!!!), We got to see the “Fiero Gang” together for Pizza…and last but not least… I have sworn off dancing but I still like “Earth, Wind and Fire” LOL Ouch,, my dang feet hurt STILL!

Jeff

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Very nice. I was wondering 2 things. What does the LS4 engine, tranny, electricals typically cost from the salvage yard. Also I've seen several swaps where the cradle is cut and welded alot for mounts, clearance etc. Anyone thought of using the doner car cradle and welding the 4 Fiero mounting points to it?

Great work.

Awsome build !!!!

I can't believe I have not seen it before.

Marked as favorite

Hi 600racer,

I got the whole setup from Morad Motors who specialize in late model GM cars... http://stores.ebay.com/Morad-Parts-Company

They have some very tempting deals and thanks to Joe spotting this motor I was able to get a Pontiac motor for the swap. Not much, if any different from the other GM LS4's.. I think a couple of swaps on here came from the same place. They also have a lot of reasonably priced 3800's as you can see on their Ebay store. Mine was complete with the engine, tap shift tranny, ECM, TCM and complete wire harness. I see prices on LS4's ranging from $2200 to $3000 depending on miles. Mine had 25K on it and was right in the middle of the range pricewise...

As far as the cradle goes, we used an 88...reason being the usual 88 benefits.. I didn't want to use another cradle because of the fabrication that would be needed to make it fit and fit the suspension etc... I suppose one could do it though.... Joe placed the motor in a slightly different position "side to side" than some others. It required fabbing engine mounts and only making two small cradle box mods.. One for the oil filter (so it would be easy to get at) and one for the serpentine tensioner... These were boxed in nicely and look factory..

Thanks for the nice comments!

And to you as well 85Lamb.... Glad to make it to someone's favorites!! Please keep watching as i am committed to going all the way to completion in the thread... I am SO lucky to have Joe Sokol as a friend as well as the other INW Fiero guys who come over and help!! Like I said.. you guys fargin rock!

So, Isolde... what do you think of the axles mounted to the suspension? I think they look mighty sexy too! LOL More build pics coming this weekend!

Later guys.... Jeff

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After I posted the cradle idea I realized the suspension could be a problem that would require some custom fabricating. Great Build so far!

Fiero Nuts….

Dateline Saturday… Memorial Day Weekend….

Great day on Saturday…. Joe had really made a lot of progress from last weekend. Tony Kania joined us and we made a lot of nice progress…. So…. Here we go!

Coil overs – These turned out GREAT! Love powder coating and am officially a convert!



Reverse light switch – Joe was reading the GXP wiring diagrams… got up and looked in our pile of “86” parts and then did a little work to convert the 86 reverse switch from the TH125 to perfectly fit the 4T65 and pabbed shift inverter plate… The “D” shaft was identical, we have room to move the linkage and the bottom plate to insure the reverse light work… Excellent!!



Oil pressure sender – I think Joe talked to Ryan on this but he pulled the manifold and tapped a perfect spot for the sender… Looks factory!



Fuel pressure regulator – Ain’t she pretty? Great spot for easy fuel line routing and adjustment…



She’s was red…. My "show case of shame" if you will… a non “panel off” paint job… But…



Now she’s not (sort of….) –or- “Does the carpet match the drapes…?” OK…bad analogy… LOL



Tony searching for quarters…. LOL… Love ya Tony! I found $17 the first time I pulled most of the interior out… My son Ben found $4 or $5 and Justin found another few bucks. Tony struck out but he got the interior and dash out!! Thanks Bro! You ROCK!!



AND… The steering wheel, cruise, lights and TAP SHIFT solution… 7 total miles on this column... Thanks to Joe and his “super sleuthing” ability at the local boneyard… (PS, Rick… I think this may have solved the problem!)



So… Tomorrow may yield more change as I have been on the road since yesterday visiting relatives and going to one of the most beautiful cemeteries in Washington… In Yakima… Had a great visit with our Bro and Sis in laws and visited my wife’s mother’s grave. It was truly heartening to see so many American flags and flowers and families in one place… A proud moment today to remember our loved ones… Also had a beautiful drive over Blewitt Pass (twice) I think we need to do a Fiero cruise up there someday.

Jeff

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Man, I am one ugly mother******!

Dogcreek, thanks for the wheel! Installed it yesterday (Almost lost a finger in the process!). I LOVE this "new" leather Grant wheel! Fat grips. Smooth looks.

The "new" wheel for your LS4 is pretty sweet also. Joe and I were equally impressed with the way it sizes up to the original Fiero column. Minimal amount of fab work required to retrofit it to the LS4 Fiero.

This build is really going quite well. There is a ton of work left to do, but I see a faint glimer of light peeping through the tunnel.

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: Hi Rick, good info... thank you... Got some pics of what Joe has made and they look great.. I will post them in a bit... Well, we looked at some things and it looks like if I want to use the cruise I have to get the BCM... Right? Plus I think I need to get a factory GXP wheel and shifter if I want to keep all of that stock.. Anyone have a stock GP-GXP wheel and shift linkage setup...? The tranny is all setup for it and when I bought it I thought it have everything it would need... but no... not a major thing... just need to find the parts Anyway more later... including todays pics.. Jeff

Jeff: I have the tap shift on mine (it's an 88 with ls4) and i didn't use the BCM. To use the tap shift, all i had to do was get the correct value resistors and wire to the TCU. I didn't want the steering wheel controls so i ran the wiring through a power window switch, that i mounted into a center console plate that i built. (got rid of the ash trays.) I also installed cruise control buttons in the console. I've been driving it for two years now and it's been great! It's a vary good swap for a Fiero and your going to love it.
RON
BTW: I would be happy to share any info or thoughts that i have on the swap.
GOOD LUCK!

Hi Ron! yeah I figured that is what you meant!

Jeff

The new steering wheel and column is a bit longer between the rim of the wheel and the turn signal lever. So you will have to mount it deeper into the dash than it was in the GXP. If you don't the wheel will be closer to you than you like? Not because the steering column so much but the air bag steering wheel is "thicker". So be sure to mock it up with the seat installed and sit there for a minot as if you are driving so you know were to mount it. Mine is adjustable like the Fiero (slotted bolt holes) but is pushed all the way forward (closest to the dash).

I do LOVE the large outer rim of the wheel. It feels great.

You may need the Body control module to do some of the functions you want? That is a powerful little box.
But not all the controls go into the BCM.


As a side note, the Body control module has some cool stuff that some day you may want to use?
I have the Automatic lights in my swap and don't even use the headlight switch anymore. It is also linked to the key less entry and turns on the headlights and reverse lights at night when I pop the trunk. At first it was strange but I like it now. Also a little annoying was the auto lights. The headlights would pop up every time I started the car inside the garage. But they go down in about 30 seconds in the sunlight.
The theater lighting is really cool. Open the door or use the keyless fob and the interior lights "power up" and then fade away in about 30 seconds after closing the door. This is an adjustable feature in the D.I.C.

Man you guys work fast. I had my LS4 for about a year before I actually started the swap in earnest. It took me between 4-6 months.

You're right, Rick, they do work fast. It comes from having enough funds to make progress every weekend. I've been at it over a year and am only half done, because of short funding.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: You're right, Rick, they do work fast. It comes from having enough funds to make progress every weekend. I've been at it over a year and am only half done, because of short funding.

Only ONE year? :P

I've been at this since '99, to get to *my* Fiero, and am at the 3rd car in the process. Funds shortages and living in apartments and big cities have generally made things more difficult. But things are finally starting to come along, and I should actually have an LS4 in my grasp soon, to mate up to this shiny new 6 speed.

Then I just need to find a reasonable parts car, or at least another cradle, and I should be able to get her running pretty soon.

Hi guys,

Well funding has helped... I must admit.... But what really helped was Joe planning the build starting last October...Knowing what we wanted to do engine-wise and also buying parts a little at a time since then... We have morphed ideas and plans a few times, just enough to keep it interesting and in the best interest of the finished build and to stay within my ever changing budget..

I have been able to raise barely enough to keep us going by selling my other toys... so financing is tight... But we grow closer every day...

Truth is, we are moving quickly because of Joe's dedication and the support of the INW Fiero guys that come over on weekends and weekdays to help... I am very lucky to have that support... A "team build" is a lot more fun, less expensive and inspiring as we get three or four sets of eyes and ideas to keep us going. And of course... the amazing skill and support of Joe. (Fieroking) He is the mastermind and a true leader of this build. I hope others can find this kind of experience and support... add Justin, Tony and Aaron and we can't go wrong... I encourage others to take the same approach... Just like an "old time" barn building.... it goes a lot faster when you have your friends to help!

Now, I am off to smash another piggy bank! LOL

Jeff
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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-02-2010).]

Ruh Roh.... was that a thread killer? I guess I get pretty exuberant since I have had such good support... Yes... I agree it has cost a bit LOL... I guess in retro spect I could have bought my beautiful bride an 88 formula (which is what she wants) with what I have spent so far...

Can't wait for Saturday!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-03-2010).]

While I do agree with having a goal in mind from the day of the car purchase, and doing research to every extent possible, and acquiring needed stuff before diving in, I don't agree with advance detail planning, even with provisionals and contingencies, in light of unforseeable developments. it steals away necessary flexibility, resulting in the planning becoming either useless or worse, a hindrance. With barn-raisings, let's look at the only surviving example of which I'm thinking we're all aware: every Amish barn is fundamentally the same, they all have the same vision in mind, and thus there's no need for Matthew to try to get Mark, Luke and John onto the same page.
I do enjoy teamwork with friends, but my car must be built to my goal, and Jamie's car must be built to Jamie's goal.
Even so, well clarified, thank you.

Most welcome Isolde!

Please don't take my remarks as though I have given up the engineering or artistic direction on my car due to funds or due to multiple opinions....In fact the opinions have helped save me money on the build with a still very unique car..... I guarantee this is no "look alike" barn.... Funds are slim but as all of my friends working on the build have said, "its your car." So, just as with my INW friends, please know I do respect your you opinion and thoughts on this...

So... on a more direct build subject.... On to the next step... the front suspension... And then putting everything back together again.... We are on the downhill side I think....

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-03-2010).]