With a slow 60'. Next pass pulled the wheels on the launch and broke an axle about 20 feet from the starting line. That was the 9 second pass. Time for some real axles.

Video=

quote Originally posted by fieroX: With a slow 60'. Next pass pulled the wheels on the launch and broke an axle about 20 feet from the starting line. That was the 9 second pass. Time for some real axles.

Slow is >1.8... Why was the trap only a bit higher after all of the changes?

Congrats! Getting closer to those 9's.

Well after you get new axles, I think you should be good for a while. The next thing that I would imagine failing would be the cradle itself. Are these the last passes of the season?

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'88 GT- 3800 Turbo Best E.T.- 11.654 Best MPH-120.65
gmtuners.com -Build info

Holy crap!
I want to go for a ride

OMG, 9's out of the box? That's a pretty big box. These are the issues that always come up. Even though we all know you have the power to do so, I think you were going in a hot with regards to expectations . Nice to see you getting faster though.

Congrats!

Thats AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

Where did the axle break? was it the shaft or the spider joint?

You got a video? Also, did you get a pic of the busted axle?

Cordially,
Kevin

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 11-14-2009).]

Sweet I hope ya can. Would love to see it also..
That would be Allsome.. Awesome...

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Slow is >1.8... Why was the trap only a bit higher after all of the changes?

Well on my 10.20 pass it was 1.54. Ive been 1.45. The launch that lunched the axle was easily a 1.45 if not faster. It didnt break the shaft, it broke the tri-lobe bearing shattering it into many pieces. The trap was almost 4 mph higher. 4 mph is a lot for just a converter and going from 2.93 back to 3.29 gears.

I have a lot more room with this new converter. Its unloading a lot better on the big end, it just takes a lot more braking effort and a lot more gas pedal to make boost on the line. Ive got it all figured out now, just in time to break the axle. One of my customers makes the 1000hp GTO axles (we powdercoat them) and he said he can make me a set of custom axles for about $1500. Thats probably the next step.

I dont think I will break my cradle. Its all box welded and is very strong. I was thinking possibly breaking or bending the rear tie rods with as hard as it launches. No telling though.

It was the last outing of the season, I have a lot of shop projects to work on now including my custom dash and my brake kit im designing.

And I do have an awesome video.

Looks like there's another thing to fix . How did the new torque converter hold up?
Congrats!

I hope mine will be looking better when I get it back with more goodies. :d

The new converter is awesome. I am excited to get them on the market.

Your car is going to be looking even more amazing soon too

Id imagine the 1.45 60' would have put you right on the 9.99 range if it had done it again on the new converter and gearing.

Congrats on the run, And to be honest your car was a inspiration and was the reason I wanted a 3800 engine, Your fiero is the fastest fiero bigtime, I bet the axle breaking scared ya a bit hehe, The first thing I would of thought was my transmission went.

Edited due to mispellings.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 11-14-2009).]

i knew it was an axle, because as of now they are my fusible links. My transmission is a beast, but now I need the axles to match. Ive probably broken 15-18 axles since my swap began in 2002.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: My transmission is a beast,

Can you post a parts/build list for your tranny?

Thanks,

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Steve AT 88GTP DOT com
88 GT\3800 SC\4T65E-HD

So, I guess you didnt fix any of your other problems?

quote Intercooler pump stopped working. Charged air was 200•. Lost mph bad car kind of fell off in 3rd gear. Reviewing the scans now.

quote I was fighting a 20 mph headwind today

And I dont even need to quote the "I am losing 20% of my horsepower with my junk converter"

quote think with a tighter converter, I may give up .1 on the 60, but could pick up a half a second in the quarter.

quote The dyno operator told me if I could get my converter to lockup in 3rd I would make 100 more wheel hp. (hence the 26% slip, actually I may make more power than 100). So wheres my next stop? 9.50?

Also remember seeing somewhere you did some moderate weight reduction as well.

So, 135mph traps are going to get you 9.50s? And gearing in these setups does not ever seem to effect trap speeds significantly.

Hey DH, I'm not sure what your beef is with fierox, but everything HE'S claimed gets backed up with video. Furthermore, your rhetoric does nothing to enhance the conversation.

Has it occurred to you that he's just learning the limits of his car/hardware, and sharing ideas and results with us? If that's the case, please shut the hell up, because if he stops sharing info because you're butthurt, we will all lose out on valuable information that we may not otherwise have access to.

There are many roads to the goal of going fast, you chose your path, he chose another, so if you don't have something nice to say, please don't say anything.

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----------------------------------------------------
Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

OOps... I was thinking of someone else...

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 08-04-2010).]

actually i dont know DH, never met him personally. He does try to attack every post I have ever made but I dont let it get to me because my cars accomplishments speak for themselves. Until he gets within 1 second of my time, he cant say sh1t.

DH, I was saying next stop 9.50's because this winter I am building a new engine with a stage 3r cam, and 10:1 Wiseco pistons. I also am building a new intake and have a larger tb. I did fix my intercooler pump problem, my weight reduction was only about 15 lbs. We had a 20 mph headwind yesterday also.

Steve heres my tranny build sheet

300m input shaft
zzp output shaft
chrome moly pump shaft
1" gmr chain 35/35 sprockets
ratcheting sprag
no wavys in any gear, extra friction where possible
alto red inputs, borg warner 2nd and zpack 3rd
my own custom shift kit in accumulator and pump spring shim
my own differential squirter
all other hard parts (shafts, gears, etc) cryo treated
Neal Chance Racing torque converter
meziere flexplate

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 11-15-2009).]

Since I'm too lazy to go back and search your other threads, what kind of boost levels are you running now?

10:1 compression on a high boost engine seems like a lot to me. I know you are running E85, so I know you'll be safe from detonation, but don't you think you'll be getting into rod-bending territory?

I can't wait for next season though. I'll be really excited to see what kind of times you can click off. I have no doubt you'll be collecting 9-second slips soon.

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'88 GT- 3800 Turbo Best E.T.- 11.654 Best MPH-120.65
gmtuners.com -Build info

Great work! Impressive!

Pete

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Ryan, now that you're using a stronger transmission, are you having multiple similar failures, or are you finding new "weak links" in the drive train?
How many passes are you typically getting in between failures?
We've seen FWD cars go 9's and 9's aren't a big deal for front engine / RWD cars. Is the difficulty just getting that Fiero chassis/drivetrain to put power to the ground?
Are you still maintaining this as a street legal car as well?

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: Since I'm too lazy to go back and search your other threads, what kind of boost levels are you running now? 10:1 compression on a high boost engine seems like a lot to me. I know you are running E85, so I know you'll be safe from detonation, but don't you think you'll be getting into rod-bending territory? I can't wait for next season though. I'll be really excited to see what kind of times you can click off. I have no doubt you'll be collecting 9-second slips soon.

I am running 24 psi boost. 10:1 with E85 wont be too bad. I am working with wiseco on some pistons right now, and the ones they are putting together are 9:1, I may go with them instead of the flat tops. Im just not too impressed with how the flame front in an ignition cycle works on a dished piston with a heart shaped combustion chamber. Its not really efficient. A flat top piston would make it more thermally efficient and the higher compression would increase the torque by quite a bit. I dont think I will bend any rods, the L32 forged rods are really strong and I have no doubt they can handle the task. If not, I have a hookup at K1 also .

quote Originally posted by PBJ: Great work! Impressive! Pete

Thanks Pete

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Ryan, now that you're using a stronger transmission, are you having multiple similar failures, or are you finding new "weak links" in the drive train? How many passes are you typically getting in between failures? We've seen FWD cars go 9's and 9's aren't a big deal for front engine / RWD cars. Is the difficulty just getting that Fiero chassis/drivetrain to put power to the ground? Are you still maintaining this as a street legal car as well?

The weak link im seeing right now is the axles. The suspension, cradle, control arms, cradle mounting points, everything is perfect. The Fiero chassis is very strong, and I am really impressed with how well designed and strong it is. All I have is coilovers on the rear, stock control arms, stock inner and outer tie rods, etc.

Well I cracked an axle tripot last time out to the track, the passenger side. It just broke right at the seal area and started dripping fluid. The car still drove, it just started leaking because of the crack. That tripot lasted about 4 passes and 30 miles or so on the street. So I replaced that one and yesterday ran 4 passes and broke on the 5th, but broke the driver side axle tri-lobe bearing. That axle has been in there for years without issues.

I just think the FWD cars have a lot stronger axles, and thats why they get in the 9's easier. Of course those guys have more money than me also.

Im just running manual fiero driver side axles with the tripot ends changed. 10.20 aint too bad for a 23 yr old fiero axle

Yes the car is still totally street legal. Yesterday I drove from my shop to the track, ran 4 passes, then broke on #5, we went back to the shop grabbed a spare and some tools. Went back to the track, swapped the axle and drove the car back to the shop and I got about 7 mpg on E85. Not too bad really.

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 11-15-2009).]

The OEM axles have always seemed to be plenty strong - the failure seems to happen at the tri-pot usually.
Why don't FWD guys have the problem? Is it just a matter of throwing more money at it or is there a design difference that's harder to overcome?
If they've already done it, can't you use the same type of setup in a Fiero?

What fuel pump are you using X?

quote I got about 7 mpg on E85.

I get about 20-25 mpg on E85, I wonder why there is such a big difference?

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Turbo 3800 getrag 5spd spec3
11.74@123

quote Originally posted by fieroX: The weak link im seeing right now is the axles. The suspension, cradle, control arms, cradle mounting points, everything is perfect. The Fiero chassis is very strong, and I am really impressed with how well designed and strong it is. All I have is coilovers on the rear, stock control arms, stock inner and outer tie rods, etc. Well I cracked an axle tripot last time out to the track, the passenger side. It just broke right at the seal area and started dripping fluid. The car still drove, it just started leaking because of the crack. That tripot lasted about 4 passes and 30 miles or so on the street. So I replaced that one and yesterday ran 4 passes and broke on the 5th, but broke the driver side axle tri-lobe bearing. That axle has been in there for years without issues. I just think the FWD cars have a lot stronger axles, and thats why they get in the 9's easier. Of course those guys have more money than me also. Im just running manual fiero driver side axles with the tripot ends changed. 10.20 aint too bad for a 23 yr old fiero axle Yes the car is still totally street legal. Yesterday I drove from my shop to the track, ran 4 passes, then broke on #5, we went back to the shop grabbed a spare and some tools. Went back to the track, swapped the axle and drove the car back to the shop and I got about 7 mpg on E85. Not too bad really.

Has, or does anyone manufactured drive axels like the Vette's half shafts? They seem to be plenty strong for the Vette, don't see why they wouldn't be for the Fireo.

quote Originally posted by FutureCustomFiero: Has, or does anyone manufactured drive axels like the Vette's half shafts? They seem to be plenty strong for the Vette, don't see why they wouldn't be for the Fireo.

Would be nice. But you would need somekind of slip joint

Great times X !


Might want to check out the axles rockcrawl used on Hughs turbo/SBC/4T65 build:

The drive axles are custom made by Mark Williams Enterprises using Porsche 930 type CV joints. The picture below shows a stock GM 24mm axle next to the Mark Williams 30mm axles we are using.


Below are the stub flanges used to mate the Porsche CVs to the GM parts. On the left is the left inner flange from GM's Sport Compact racing program. On the right is the outer flange made by Mark Williams Enterprises.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: I get about 20-25 mpg on E85, I wonder why there is such a big difference?

Because that 7 mpg included racing . When those 120# injectors are flowing, they are FLOWING! haha.

My fuel pump is a Fuelab 41401.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Great times X ! Might want to check out the axles rockcrawl used on Hughs turbo/SBC/4T65 build: The drive axles are custom made by Mark Williams Enterprises using Porsche 930 type CV joints. The picture below shows a stock GM 24mm axle next to the Mark Williams 30mm axles we are using. Below are the stub flanges used to mate the Porsche CVs to the GM parts. On the left is the left inner flange from GM's Sport Compact racing program. On the right is the outer flange made by Mark Williams Enterprises.

Thats exactly what I am having made. How much would a set like that cost? Im ready to buy!

also...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI66CZ2rIYY

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 11-15-2009).]

Congratulations X

You are the flagship for Fiero speed!



I love the sound of that turbo and motor when you warm up the tires.

Too bad that fart can car in the right lane mucks up the sound of your launch

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 11-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by FieroMonkey: Congratulations X You are the flagship for Fiero speed! I love the sound of that turbo and motor when you warm up the tires. Too bad that fart can car in the right lane mucks up the sound of your launch

Thanks!

Actually the fart can car is a good friend of mine, and he has actually gone 10.39 at 143 mph. He was just having some serious issues in that run haha.

Next season I will get some solo runs on video.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: Thanks! Actually the fart can car is a good friend of mine, and he has actually gone 10.39 at 143 mph. He was just having some serious issues in that run haha. Next season I will get some solo runs on video.

Well, my apologies to your good friend. Sorry he had a bum run. Look forward to those solo vids!

Any chance we can get some info or maybe an engine bay shot of the eclipse? it deffinently looked like he broke something on the run.

na he didnt break anything just had a messed up launch and Jason and I have realized when you have 1 thing go wrong on a run whether it be a bad launch, or wheel spin, or anything its not even worth running it out the backside because we arent going to set a new best with a botched start.

I dont know if he has any pics of his engine online, Ill ask him when I see him next. He goes by psi_guy, you might find google it and see what comes up.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The OEM axles have always seemed to be plenty strong - the failure seems to happen at the tri-pot usually. Why don't FWD guys have the problem? Is it just a matter of throwing more money at it or is there a design difference that's harder to overcome? If they've already done it, can't you use the same type of setup in a Fiero?

Hello my best guess is that the transfer of weight is bearing additional forces on the rear mounted axles as oppossed to the front drive units. Ryan you Da man. Thanks Norm

Very Nice Run X. Glad to see someone back up the talk with proof. You give me hope for my project and I'll sure be asking you for advice shortly.

you make that 9second run yet??