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2.0 Turbo Lt3 by fieroguy123
Started on: 09-22-2009 02:54 PM
Replies: 66
Last post by: MaxCubes on 09-02-2010 01:20 AM
fieroguy123
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Report this Post09-22-2009 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
Just wanted to let all of you engine swap people out there know that if anyone is interested in doing the lt3 swap I have figured it all out for you and would be glad to help walk you through the swap..... Mine should be running tomorrow, just a few things left to plumb and I can hit the key To the best of my knowledge I'm the first person (in the public world) to complete this swap in a fiero. Hope I can assist anyone who is thinking of attempting this awesome swap... My email is fieroguy1@yahoo.com
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Report this Post09-22-2009 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for heavyRfootClick Here to Email heavyRfootSend a Private Message to heavyRfootDirect Link to This Post
let me be the first to say this PICS we need pics.
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Report this Post09-22-2009 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for N3M3S1SClick Here to visit N3M3S1S's HomePageClick Here to Email N3M3S1SSend a Private Message to N3M3S1SDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by heavyRfoot:

let me be the first to say this PICS we need pics.


x9000!!!!! ...Ahem. Yeah. We're definitely gonna need to see some pics. I also may have to confiscate the car from you for.. your.. safety? =P
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Report this Post09-22-2009 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TiredGXPSend a Private Message to TiredGXPDirect Link to This Post
In the spirit of the other replies:

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Report this Post09-22-2009 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbDirect Link to This Post
what is an lt3 ?
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Report this Post09-22-2009 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

what is an lt3 ?


2.0 SOHC Turbo engine found in 87-90 Turbo Sunbird GT and Grand AM GT models.

This engine was swapped in back in the 1980s, look up either the "Delta 204T" or "Andretti Fiero"

on a related note:
http://up.craigslist.org/cto/1367415371.html

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 09-23-2009).]

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Report this Post09-23-2009 04:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for whereattClick Here to Email whereattSend a Private Message to whereattDirect Link to This Post




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Report this Post09-23-2009 05:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
Dont mean to be a stick in the mud but what is remotely exciting about 2 litres in a car that weighs a tonne.
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Report this Post09-23-2009 07:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ghost187xSend a Private Message to ghost187xDirect Link to This Post
whats the max boost this thing can do? how much does the engine weigh? is it aluminum or iron?
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Report this Post09-23-2009 11:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Australian:

Dont mean to be a stick in the mud but what is remotely exciting about 2 litres in a car that weighs a tonne.


It makes 180 horsepower, which is more than either stock Fiero engine, so its better than nothing.
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Report this Post09-23-2009 03:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakDirect Link to This Post
I saw you CarDomain page a while back on this and commented on it. Good to see you found your way here.
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Report this Post09-24-2009 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
Thanks to jeff for posting my pics for me.... This motor, although only 2.0 litres, is capable of making huge power numbers if it's told to do it. But like anthing else, with enough abuse she will break.. There's nothing really more beneficial about doing this swap than any other engine I guess, just that it's different and who doesn't like to have a turbo screaming right behind their head???? I did it for the sounds and uniqueness of the whole thing. That's all. Just thought I would offer my services if anyone would like to consider the swap...
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Report this Post01-31-2010 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
I bumped this old post because I've had alot of people interested in it lately and I wanted to guage how much interest there is on the forum. When I started this thread the car was still in the build stages and now it's running and driving. It's absolutely amazing, I'm building a second one, and OMG it sounds incredible!

[This message has been edited by fieroguy123 (edited 01-31-2010).]

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Report this Post02-01-2010 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thismanyfierosClick Here to Email thismanyfierosSend a Private Message to thismanyfierosDirect Link to This Post
a guy not to far from me has one in his 84 fiero..been running for over a year now...its well documented on the edmontonfieros web site...its bens dads car...ben has a quad four in his own car...they like having dualing 4 cylinders when they autocross....tim
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Report this Post06-05-2010 03:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Y_B_A_FOOLSend a Private Message to Y_B_A_FOOLDirect Link to This Post
How did you manage to wire in the motor? Did you drop the whole sunbird in there? And are you running a stick?
And idk about the ECOTEC motor. Its cool and all but this looks like it belongs there Sick swap dude!

and one more question. I couldn't learn much about this motor *the things i want to know. Does it have forged internals? Or can it handle the boost dude to its low compression pistons?

ALSO: do you have any video? Cause that would help out all of us here. I couldn't even find videos of this in a sunbird... Unless you wanted to see it pouring out gas XD
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Report this Post06-05-2010 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadDanceSkillzClick Here to Email MadDanceSkillzSend a Private Message to MadDanceSkillzDirect Link to This Post
Let me be the first to say...don't talk crap about those 2 liters until you ride in Bobby's yellow GT! It's not even tuned that great yet and it would smoke a lot of the 3800SC swaps on here. I believe he'll be posting pics of his OTHER 2.0 conversion in this thread, though.

Another plus on this swap is that it is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen. It also fits extremely well. I don't think there's a thing on the motor you would have to drop the cradle to replace and my skinny girlfriend could probably stand next to it in the engine bay. I hate 4cyl cars for the most part but I definitely respect the two that Fieroguy123 has.

"There is no replacement for displacement" just isn't always true any more.

------------------
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Report this Post06-05-2010 03:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Y_B_A_FOOLSend a Private Message to Y_B_A_FOOLDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ghost187x:

whats the max boost this thing can do? how much does the engine weigh? is it aluminum or iron?


Its an Iron block, with an aluminum head. And it seems and can handle quite a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw2LuNskWi8
The end of the lil' orange gauge is 15psi? And he pins it XD
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Report this Post06-05-2010 04:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
maddanceskillz, I never noticed that you had posted in this thread, thanks for the compliments! I am pretty surprised that this thread was brought back up honestly, few people had good things to say about the swap.

Y_B_A_Fool, to answer your questions, wiring it was a PITA. It took me a long time and I learned alot along the way. I used an 88' v6 stick shift harness, and the original automatic trans harness for the 2.0 from the sunbird. I cut out what I didn't need from both harnesses, then blended what I did need together using the sunbird ecm connectors, the fiero c203 connector, and the fiero c500. I had a custom made getrag 5 spd built for it using the 2.0 getrag bell housing, fiero other half of the split case, quad 4 getrag racing gear set utilizing the stock fiero getrag 5th gear for highway economy, and the baretta getrag shift/select arm so I could use the rodney dickman fwd conversion kit and keep my stock shift cables and shifter. It was VERY expensive to build.
It does have forged internals, the weak link being the connecting rods, so I had the cryo-treated. Hopefully they last a while
Although I definitely should, I do not have any videos of my car yet as I am kind of a "techno-tard". I'm not very good at computer stuff and I honestly have no idea how to post a video or even download one from my camera onto the computer. I know, it's goofy that I can do what I do with cars but I can't even use a digital camera. Lol
Feel free to ask all the questions you want, I'm happy to answer them.

[This message has been edited by fieroguy123 (edited 06-05-2010).]

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Report this Post06-05-2010 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Y_B_A_FOOLSend a Private Message to Y_B_A_FOOLDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguy123:
Feel free to ask all the questions you want, I'm happy to answer them.

Lol, good. Cause i always have alot of them. I am new to car wiring and stuff. But you really lost me at the tranny part. You used the fiero tranny but fused both bellhousings? And you can't use the 5 speed out of the sunbird? *i understand you didn't have one. Are the axles (on the manual, i have a 4 seed right now) different? And did you have to reprogram the computer at all? Didn't see that if it was there =P... Thanks by the way ^.^

[This message has been edited by Y_B_A_FOOL (edited 06-05-2010).]

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fieroguy123
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Report this Post06-05-2010 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
Here's how the whole transmission thing works.... The sunbird turbo did come with a 5 speed getrag from the factory, even though my donor car was an automatic. There are two differences between the fiero getrag and the sunbird getrag. The sunbird getrag has a different bell housing pattern than the fiero, and it has a short shift/select arm where the levers are not able to be removed/rotated 180 degrees to be able to hook up fiero shift cables. I couldn't find a way to make the stock sunbird getrag work in the car...

So it was time to do some figuring. The getrag is a "split case" design where the transmission only splits into two halfs, with the gear set bunched up in the middle. So we used the bell housing side of the split case from the sunbird getrag, and the "axle" side of the fiero split case creating a whole transmission again. They bolted together no problem. Now I was left with the shift/select arm problem, so I talked to Pontiac Jeff down in Alabama and we figured out that we could use one from a Baretta getrag as the shaft is longer and allowed us to use Rodney Dickmans FWD conversion kit to convert it from use in a front wheel drive car, to use in a fiero. The stock axles from a fiero will work just fine in this set up, be it automatic or manual. But I wanted the closest thing to equal length axles, so I utilized the "cardan joint" from the sunbird getrag and had to find an axle that would now fit between the joint and the wheel. Turns out that the passenger side axle from a 91-92 eagle vision fit my needs perfectly.

As far as the computer goes, if leave the engine in stock form or close to it, there's no need to reprogram as you would be using the sunbird computer which already has built in boost control. However my donor car was an automatic so we had to get into the programming and switch a 1 to a 0 to make it run correctly for a stickshift. Also I'm running a much higher boost level among other things (such as a twin throttle body conversion) that will require a complete re-tune once I'm able to get the car down to Pontiac Jeff in Atlanta.



[This message has been edited by fieroguy123 (edited 06-05-2010).]

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Report this Post06-05-2010 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Y_B_A_FOOLSend a Private Message to Y_B_A_FOOLDirect Link to This Post
I'm still learning about my car here, sorry. My dad never cared for FWD cars so this is an adventure for the both of us.
So the bell housing is part of the transmission? If so i'm no longer lost and i don't understand why you have/had linkage problems. Is there something in the way? Or did you use a FWD tranny?
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Report this Post06-05-2010 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadDanceSkillzClick Here to Email MadDanceSkillzSend a Private Message to MadDanceSkillzDirect Link to This Post
Don't quote me on this, but Fieroguy123's car uses a sunbird Getrag bellhousing mated to a race Getrag (*drool*) that utilized a stock 5th gear rather than a short 5th gear. It sounds to me like he basically has a 4.10 4spd with a 5th gear after talking to him about it.

------------------
86GT Modded 3.4l V6/Getrag with Trueleo - 210WHP
1972 Honda CB350 Motorcycle For Sale - 80% NOS

Want C5 Corvette Setas In Your Fiero?
Check out my guide!
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/081176.html

PM Me if you need:
Interior/Exterior Parts
Stock Switches/Bezels
Gauge Clusters
Body Panels
Fiero Rotor Hubs for Brake Swaps
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Report this Post06-05-2010 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
the bell housing is the part of the transmission that bolts to the engine. They all have their own bolt pattern. The fiero 2.5 and 2.8 share the same pattern, but the 2.0 has a different pattern. So, I had to use the sunbird bell housing to be able to bolt them together.

The problem with the shift cables is that although the fiero is a rear wheel drive vehicle, it's simply a front wheel drive set up moved to the back of the car... So when you move the drivetrain, the cables now go from the shifter in the center console to the back of the car, where as in the sunbird they would go from the center console to the front of the car. See the problem? The cables are coming in from the wrong direction now. That's what rodney dickmans fwd conversion kit takes care of, it turns the shift levers around so that they function as though still in the front of a vehicle.
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Report this Post06-05-2010 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Y_B_A_FOOLSend a Private Message to Y_B_A_FOOLDirect Link to This Post
but i though you were using the Fiero transmission? Why would you need the FWD conversion? Sorry im getting lost.
I understand that the bell housing bolts up, but why would that matter about the tranny being a "slip case"?

-sorry if my questions are bad :/

[This message has been edited by Y_B_A_FOOL (edited 06-05-2010).]

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fieroguy123
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Report this Post06-05-2010 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
Does this help?



Nm, there's no way you can read that. Arrow on left says "fiero half", arrow on bottom right says "sunbird half", and the arrow on the top right says "baretta shift/select arm".

[This message has been edited by fieroguy123 (edited 06-05-2010).]

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Report this Post06-05-2010 11:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Y_B_A_FOOLSend a Private Message to Y_B_A_FOOLDirect Link to This Post
lol still don't get your problem here. Isn't the linkages on the "fiero side" of the tranny? Why would you even need to have the conversion? But i'm assuming there is something i'm over looking about the "sunbird side".
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Report this Post06-05-2010 11:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
For simplicity sake, I told you that was a "fiero" split half. It's actually the newer style getrag from the baretta, that's the purpose of the conversion kit. The newer style baretta trans isn't a "bolt in" trans for a fiero without the conversion kit. Make sense? I guess that wasn't simple after all because you caught it. Lol
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Report this Post06-05-2010 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Y_B_A_FOOLSend a Private Message to Y_B_A_FOOLDirect Link to This Post
lol i knew there was somethin missing ^.^ well if i had a fiero getrag all i would need is the bell housing out of the sunbird right? Man i was starting to think i was retarded. I looked up all types of getrag disassembles too.
Well onto another topic. Did you only use the dash cluster out of the Sunbird? Or did you swap the dash too?
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Report this Post06-06-2010 01:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguy123:
There's nothing really more beneficial about doing this swap than any other engine I guess, just that it's different...


I respect that, just being different. Good job Fieroguy!

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Report this Post06-06-2010 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
I used the cluster from the 88 sunbird. it's completely functional.

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Report this Post06-06-2010 01:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneDirect Link to This Post
Doesn't that depend on the engine, e.g. VW 2.0T:

- turbo inline 4 cylinder petrol
- 200 PS (150 kW; 200 hp) @ 5100-6000
- 280 N·m (210 lb·ft) @ 1700-5000

That powers the 3100 lb. VW Passat, for example. I've driven a VW Eos (a 1.5 ton car) with that engine and it felt very, very quick!

 
quote
Originally posted by Australian:

Dont mean to be a stick in the mud but what is remotely exciting about 2 litres in a car that weighs a tonne.

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 06-06-2010).]

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Report this Post06-06-2010 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jeffdean42Click Here to Email jeffdean42Send a Private Message to jeffdean42Direct Link to This Post
can parts from these motors be exchanged with each other? like DOHC heads on to a LT3? lotus... cosworth.. also will this motor bolt to the fiero 4 speed man?

does anyone have video of one of these motors installed and running? anyone know the weight of these motors fully dressed? vs 3800? installed in a fiero...

I think they sell the same family of motor in Brazil, 2010, ??
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Report this Post06-06-2010 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
They do still produce this motor, they call it the c20 cet and let. The newer versions are dohc and the heads will exchange between motors, but the new ones are dis and the old ones have distributors. However, they simply put a block off plate over where the distributor would go so it's simply a matter of putting it back on.
No this engine will not bolt to any fiero transmission, it has a different bolt pattern. I don't have any video yet, but I will soon and I'm sure there will be video from the frazee show in July as well.

And as far as weight goes, I have no idea what the exact numbers are. But I can tell you that fully dressed I can pick this motor up and carry it across the garage. I'm not exactly a big guy, I weigh 150 lbs.

[This message has been edited by fieroguy123 (edited 06-06-2010).]

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Report this Post06-06-2010 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jeffdean42Click Here to Email jeffdean42Send a Private Message to jeffdean42Direct Link to This Post
will the f40 tranny fit? what about the other ecotec trannys?
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Report this Post06-06-2010 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
Nope. it has entirely it's own bolt pattern. The only way to do it is with the factory sunbird auto, which is a th125 same as a fiero but with a different bolt pattern, or by splitting the case on a sunbird getrag and a fiero getrag and putting them back together. Those are the only two trans options as far as I know. However, there is always the option of an adapter plate.
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Report this Post06-07-2010 01:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jeffdean42Click Here to Email jeffdean42Send a Private Message to jeffdean42Direct Link to This Post
how did you go about the mounts?

how did you do the coolant system?

any good websites? forums about this motor?

[This message has been edited by jeffdean42 (edited 06-07-2010).]

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Report this Post06-07-2010 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula OwnerSend a Private Message to Formula OwnerDirect Link to This Post
Did you use an intercooler? If so, how did you plumb it?
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Report this Post06-07-2010 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Direct Link to This Post
The mounts are fairly simple, whether you use the getrag or 125 auto, you can use the factory fiero mounts in either application. The engine mount and dog bone, however, have to be custom fabricated. I can post picture of how I did it.

Cooling system is pretty simple as well, just figure out the direction of flow and connect A to B. The inlet and outlet on the 2.0 are on opposite ends of the motor from what the 2.5 and 2.8 are, so rather than criss-cross the hoses in the back, I ran them straight down to the nearest coolant tube (the ones under the car) and crossed the hoses at the radiator instead. I stood in the hose isle at autozone for quite some time figuring out exactly which hoses would be the best to use. I have all of the part numbers of the hoses that I used documented in a book so they are available if anybody needs them.

There has been some discussion in the past about this engine in the J-body forums. jbody.org to be exact.

I do have an intercooler for it, it's a stock intercooler from the mazda rx7 turbo II. It fits perfectly inside my drivers side scoop ( I have aftermarket scoops on the side of my car, I'll post a pic) though it isn't plumbed up yet. The gt has been on hold while I work on my formula 2.0 turbo swap in preparation for the Frazee show this July. The plumbing will be run along the firewall and back as the turbo is on the firewall side of the engine compartment. It just so happens that the intercooler inlet and outlet look like they were designed to be placed into a fiero. If you position it inside the scoop just the right way, the inlet is angled towards the motor just under the drivers side frame rail and the outlet (up to the intake) comes through the hole where your factory intake tube connects to the airbox. It couldn't be more perfect.

[This message has been edited by fieroguy123 (edited 06-07-2010).]

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firebirdrestore
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Report this Post06-07-2010 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for firebirdrestoreClick Here to Email firebirdrestoreSend a Private Message to firebirdrestoreDirect Link to This Post
i have to say i rode in fieroguy123 yellow fiero and that M-F is fast for a 2.0 lots of set your butt back in the seat
get your t top running and have a blast
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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post06-07-2010 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kDirect Link to This Post
ooo i want a boosted motor!
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