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3800SC Score!!! or something fishy? by Jefrysuko
Started on: 07-06-2009 10:54 PM
Replies: 28
Last post by: KurtAKX on 11-08-2010 12:17 PM
Jefrysuko
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Report this Post07-06-2009 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoDirect Link to This Post
I wasn't planning on doing a 3800SC swap but I found one for $100 locally and am lined up to pick it up Wed after work. I was looking at the pictures and thought it looked as it maybe he had swapped some parts around. What do you guys think?

It came out of a 2002 Bonneville with 68K miles.

 
quote
Quote from the Seller:
I found a great deal on a rebuilt engine that had some internal upgrades so I pulled this one out to make room for the new one. The supercharger is quiet and the engine made no noises at all. It had great oil pressure and pulled hard when you hit the accelerator. The camshaft cover was pulled after it is was removed to take out the camshaft sensor magnet but the timing chain was left undisturbed."


And here are the pictures...

Missing some accessory drive components

Leaking a little bit of oil from the valve covers

This picture made me wonder if the snout of the supercharger has been changed out

Missing throttle body


Feel free to point out things you see missing as well. I would obviously have to hit up the junkyards in order to get all of the missing components.

If I get it I will marry it to either a 4-Speed Muncie or 5-Speed Getrag I have laying around and put it in my 86 SE to use as a daily driver.
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Report this Post07-06-2009 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RumbleBSend a Private Message to RumbleBDirect Link to This Post
You might have a winner there. Yes, you do need a lot of other parts. For the transmission, I would go for the 5-speed.
Replace all of the gaskets that you can. Like the intake, valve covers, supercharger. You will need to pull the oil pan and check the main bearings.
You will need a different oil filter adapter as well. This is just for starters.

[This message has been edited by RumbleB (edited 07-06-2009).]

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CowsPatoot
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Report this Post07-07-2009 01:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CowsPatootClick Here to visit CowsPatoot's HomePageSend a Private Message to CowsPatootDirect Link to This Post
That is normal for the supercharger snout to look different. they are a different finish than the rest of the supercharger.
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Fierofreak00
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Report this Post07-07-2009 07:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierofreak00Click Here to Email Fierofreak00Send a Private Message to Fierofreak00Direct Link to This Post
Take a look at mine..same condition. I have 3 superchargers and they all look the same, it's normal. -Jason

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IVANNATINKLE
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Report this Post07-07-2009 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IVANNATINKLEClick Here to Email IVANNATINKLESend a Private Message to IVANNATINKLEDirect Link to This Post
the blower snout is made i think out of different metal to... either that or its just finished different but ya they all look like that and as far as the other parts the look stock.. i think the valve cover leaking i think that was a factory recall, but definitely go threw the motor... im not sure how much money you plan on spending but there are a few mods thaat are well worth doing while the motor is out and your changing all the gaskets around... ported lim 60$... ported blower 100-250$... rockers....145$....valve springs... cam.... that stuff especially the cam rockers and valve springs are super hard to get to without dropping the motor when its in a fiero.
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motoracer838
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Report this Post07-07-2009 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Direct Link to This Post
Seeing how it's little more than a long block with a blower, I'd be wary that it might be a warranty engine, (one that was taken out of a car at a stealership under warranty and replaced) there could be any manner of things wrong with it, not to mention how much you'll spend completing the package, ( sensors, throttle body, fuel rails, injectors, accesory brackets and parts, wiring and ecm. )

That $100 dollar bargin could get real expensive real fast.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 07-07-2009).]

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RideZiLightning
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Report this Post07-07-2009 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RideZiLightningSend a Private Message to RideZiLightningDirect Link to This Post
There are easily $100 worth of parts there, so you can't lose

Tear it down and find out
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motoracer838
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Report this Post07-07-2009 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RideZiLightning:

There are easily $100 worth of parts there, so you can't lose

Tear it down and find out


I agree that there's money there, I'm just saying that to go from long block to running in a Fiero is going to be a PITA and cost money and time. (how much is his time worth???

Joe
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IVANNATINKLE
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Report this Post07-07-2009 11:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IVANNATINKLEClick Here to Email IVANNATINKLESend a Private Message to IVANNATINKLEDirect Link to This Post
well my time is free when im working on my cars thats why i do my own work i could the labor as a savings not to mention i get all my parts cheeper from autozone due to friiends or used of grand prix sights but thats me.... all in all.... i think it would be worth it to him if he did an n*tb there a lot larger than stock and much worth it...also he wouldn't have to pay for stock and get stock used he could get much better for new stock price in great working condition.....pcm.... used zzp.... maybe 100$ tops for preformance pcm... the work that needs to be done.... is cheeper to do when you start with no parts when your comparing stock to aftermarket the aftermarket for the 3.8 is in such a rutt right now you could get a fullly built motor with 5000K still running strong for cheeper than you could get a stoker with 20000K from a dealership
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Jefrysuko
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Report this Post07-08-2009 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the coments guys.

I know it is probably going to take a bunch of time getting all the parts I need but sometimes that can be half of the fun. I'm scheduled to pick it up later today after work. Hopefully the rain stays away so I don't have to go buy a tarp to cover it on the way home. Film at 11
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Lambo nut
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Report this Post07-08-2009 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutDirect Link to This Post
I'm going to agree with Joe, and RideZiLightning. I'd get the motor for the 100 bucks, but just assume I would not be able to use it. That way if you can use it, you are way ahead, and if not, you've got a lot of extra parts, for your next motor find, that might be in better shape. Can't lose!

And I do agree with Joe again, the extras might add up to more then finding another complete motor, but hey, for me, finding stuff is half the fun also!

Kevin

[This message has been edited by Lambo nut (edited 07-08-2009).]

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Report this Post07-08-2009 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
I'd buy it for 100.00 in a heart beat. Hell, I'd buy em allday for 100.00. I think it looks like more than 68k though! Tear it down, inspect it. If it's all good, put it back together and you'll have a freshly sealed motor for cheap.
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86fieroEarl
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Report this Post07-08-2009 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86fieroEarlClick Here to Email 86fieroEarlSend a Private Message to 86fieroEarlDirect Link to This Post
make sure the engine was kept covered from rain, I see its missing the injectors and water can get down in the engine, The first 3800 sc 2 engine I bought had water that got down in it, The company poured tranny fluid down it and blocked the intake with a piece of wood, But that did not help it The engine was very pitted with rust and I ended up parting out the engine.
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Fiero-117A
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Report this Post07-08-2009 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero-117AClick Here to Email Fiero-117ASend a Private Message to Fiero-117ADirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 86fieroEarl:

make sure the engine was kept covered from rain, I see its missing the injectors and water can get down in the engine, The first 3800 sc 2 engine I bought had water that got down in it, The company poured tranny fluid down it and blocked the intake with a piece of wood, But that did not help it The engine was very pitted with rust and I ended up parting out the engine.


looks like a good rebuilder to me! id really have to see wat the internals look like. but id by them all day with a SC. running or not.
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Jefrysuko
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Report this Post07-08-2009 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 86fieroEarl:

make sure the engine was kept covered from rain, I see its missing the injectors and water can get down in the engine,


Well, I'm back. I think Earl might be on to something. There is a bunch of crud up around the injector holes and antifreeze puddled on the intake manifold. It has been sitting under a partially enclosed carport since it was pulled and I wasn't able to see exactly where it had been sitting. I asked how long it had been sitting and his response was a loooooong time.

The good news is that the supercharger spins freely and doesn’t have any play and the engine turns over freely as well. It's going to be a couple days till I can get it torn down but I'll post more pictures when I can.

On a side note I got chased by the rain on my little adventure to pick it up. Before leaving work I checked the radar and there were little storm bursts all over but it looked like I could possibly get lucky and avoid the heavy stuff. The engine was about 40 miles NW from where I work and my home is about 30 miles NE of where I work so I really didn't want to head back home to get a tarp as I would have burned more $$ in gas than it would be to buy a new tarp. So I get to my destination and it starts to pour down rain so I stop by Wal-Mart and get a tarp before stopping at the guy’s house. I get back in the truck and by the time I get to his house the sun is out shining again. I look to the east and it is clear so we load the engine up and I decide not to use the tarp and head on home. I didn't waste anytime as I see the little bursts forming all around me and by the time I get in town there are a few drops coming down. I threw the tarp over the engine as I am getting out the engine hoist and then quickly move it from the truck to the garage. As I am folding up the hoist the heavens opened and we had a good 30 minute downpour. So now after dinner and putting the kids to bed the rain has stopped and I can go out and clean up the garage a little so I can have some room to work.
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Back On Holiday
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Report this Post07-08-2009 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Back On HolidayClick Here to Email Back On HolidaySend a Private Message to Back On HolidayDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierofreak00:

Take a look at mine..same condition. I have 3 superchargers and they all look the same, it's normal. -Jason



Your idler pully on the far right (crank to SC) seems to be sticking out much farther than it should, have you test fitted the engine yet in the car?
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Fierofreak00
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Report this Post07-09-2009 07:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierofreak00Click Here to Email Fierofreak00Send a Private Message to Fierofreak00Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Back On Holiday:


Your idler pully on the far right (crank to SC) seems to be sticking out much farther than it should, have you test fitted the engine yet in the car?


Yep, I did test fit it, twice in two different cars, and your right it did hit. The reason it sticks out so far is that I used the stock Rivera parts that the engine came with. I also wanted to use the stock supercharger belt, just in case of any issues when out of town. So I mixed and matched pullies from the junkyard ( I have a friend that owns one, and I get free reign ) until it fit just right. I built the engine on the cradle from memory, as I didn't have an extra car to install and test fit stuff. -Jason

Here you can see it hits the hinge box, and is actually pushing the torsion spring out as well



But I had planned for it when I did the second fit (in a parts car)



Now it fits like a glove.

[This message has been edited by Fierofreak00 (edited 07-09-2009).]

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post07-09-2009 07:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
You could have saved yourself a bunch of time and left your stock hinges if you ran a w-body SC tensioner bracket.
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Report this Post07-09-2009 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

You could have saved yourself a bunch of time and left your stock hinges if you ran a w-body SC tensioner bracket.


It looks like he went to a smaller pulley size and may have lowered the engine mounting on the final fit.
Getting back to the $100 3800SC, if a valve cover inspection and compression check or cylinder leakdown test is done, that should tell the story. He should also spin the supercharger to see if everything is tight in there.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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KurtAKX
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Report this Post07-09-2009 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
Getting back to the $100 3800SC, if a valve cover inspection and compression check or cylinder leakdown test is done, that should tell the story. He should also spin the supercharger to see if everything is tight in there.



...and check out the bottom end of the motor and oil pump
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Fierofreak00
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Report this Post07-09-2009 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierofreak00Click Here to Email Fierofreak00Send a Private Message to Fierofreak00Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

You could have saved yourself a bunch of time and left your stock hinges if you ran a w-body SC tensioner bracket.


Thanks for the advice, but, I like doing things my way I used what I had available. Just so I can say that I did it. Nothing was bought, with the exception of the low mount alternator bracket. And even it was a last minute change, asI had had already set everything up for the stock (Riviera) alternator. I decided that the top of the engine looked cluttered, so I used the low mount instead.... Oh, and I will be using the stock hinges, I've already planned for that...... -Jason

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Jefrysuko
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Report this Post07-09-2009 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Getting back to the $100 3800SC, if a valve cover inspection and compression check or cylinder leakdown test is done, that should tell the story. He should also spin the supercharger to see if everything is tight in there.



 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:


...and check out the bottom end of the motor and oil pump


Thanks for trying to keep it on topic guys. I'm not quite sure how to check the compression in it's current state as I don't have a flexplate or flywheel to use to turn it over with a starter. I do plan to tear it down to the shortblock and check everything out the best I can. I will probably need some advice on things once I get to that phase. I just figured out that my weekend is full so it is going to be a little longer that I would like till I can get at it.
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Jefrysuko
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Report this Post11-06-2010 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoDirect Link to This Post
Well, it's been over a year and I finally got this motor torn down. I took it over to KurtAKX's place otherwise it would still be sitting in the corner of my garage left untouched.

Here it is this afternoon after making two trips to the hardware store to get bolts to attach it to the engine stand. Note: M12x1.75 are the correct fasteners. 80-90mm of length work well for the the ones which thread into the block. We used a 7/16 @ 4.5" for the thru hole. Don't ask how we ended up with M10's the first time around.


We were particularly interested in getting the intake off considering the evidence of coolant puddling and possibly getting in the injector holes. This isn't the greatest picture but there was in fact some water which got in and sat behind several of the intake valves for quite some time.


Another area of discovery on this motor was why the cam and balance shaft were not rotating with the crank. As you can see in the picture below (and the pictures in the beginning of the thread now that I look back on them) is that the timing cover is loose. Turns out that the guy who sold me the motor took the timing cover off to get the cam sensor pickup and he didn't get the timing set keyed back into the camshaft.


The motor still had several quarts of oil in it and unfortunately draining it revealed that some of that coolant got down into the pan. Here is what we found upon removing the pan.


The bottom of the oil pan looked even worse. I'm fairly sure that the oil is supposed to drain out of the pan and not stick to the bottom!


I had been hoping not to get this far into this motor but we ended up tearing it down completely and am glad we did now. I don't have anymore pictures but this is what we found.


  • Main bearings and crank looked great with only the slightest indication of debris/wear
  • Rod bearings had some kind of strange surface condition like the moisture might have been corroding the outer coating but were fine from a wear standpoint
  • Timing chain appeared to be a little worn and the plastic tensioner foot had been machined down by the chain a fair amount
  • Camshaft had 3-4 lobes with a substantial amount of pitted wear on the nose like the hardness was not sufficient
  • Lifters for those lobes were in question
  • Cam bearings were showing significant wear with the outer coating gone on the bottom sides


So in order to bring this motor back into usable condition this is the list of things we came up with which would need to be done.


  • Hot tank block
  • Disassemble, hot tank and reassemble heads with new valve guides
  • Cam bearings
  • Rod bearings
  • Used cam and a couple of lifters
  • Full gasket set
  • Fasteners (to replace the TTY ones)
  • Cam sensor pickup
  • Timing set & Tensioner


That is just a list of things to get in back into a usable short block and doesn't include any of the major things which were missing from the motor to begin with or any of the things needed to swap it into a Fiero.

I'm going to spend a few days deciding what it will cost to go further with this endeavor or if I might just be better off getting another motor.

Anyone got a used cam they can sell me?

[This message has been edited by Jefrysuko (edited 11-07-2010).]

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solotwo
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Report this Post11-06-2010 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoDirect Link to This Post
Hey you had a little bit of a drive from IL. to Allendale.

Steve W
NE Grand Rapids, MI
88 Coupe
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Report this Post11-07-2010 07:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
For $450 you can get a sub 10k mile block from just about any LKQ in the country at this point. You would need to swap your heads/blower onto it, and then still get the rest of the swap parts from me, but it would still probably still work out to a good deal. I would also be curious as to what sort of shape those heads were in.

In terms of getting parts from me, I have probably 80% of what you are looking for, and a few trips to the junkyards up here could probably turn up the rest. THe only parts I am low on currently is some of the supercharger belt tensioner parts, and wiring harness bits.
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Jefrysuko
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Report this Post11-07-2010 08:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

For $450 you can get a sub 10k mile block from just about any LKQ in the country at this point. You would need to swap your heads/blower onto it, and then still get the rest of the swap parts from me, but it would still probably still work out to a good deal. I would also be curious as to what sort of shape those heads were in.


Well, hook me up

I'm kind of thinking the same thing but we are void of a LKQ or good junk yards in general in this area. That leaves me with having one shipped which raises the price. The only reason I started in this endeavor was because it looked like I could do it on the cheap cheap but it's starting to add up with any direction I go at this point. If you find a good motor in your neck of the woods let me know.

We didn't tear down the heads yet. Maybe I could get to that sometime later this week. We are hoping they just need cleaned up but we will see.
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Jefrysuko
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Report this Post11-07-2010 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoDirect Link to This Post
Well, started looking up prices for what it would cost to refresh this motor and it is looking like >$500.

I also got on CAR-PART and have found a couple potential yards with low mileage L26's for ~$500. They are all a couple hours away but that would be less time than I would spend putting this motor back together again.

Decisions, Decisions...
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Report this Post11-07-2010 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
I decided just got go with the $250 55k mile L26 from a 2006 from LKQ. Look into a L26 instead of an L67 then put your top end parts on it. You can get the low mileage NA engines cheap and it'll be better for a basic 3800sc swap.
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Report this Post11-08-2010 12:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXDirect Link to This Post
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