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The one and only Step-By-Step 3800 Series II SC Swap by The Fieromaster
Started on: 07-15-2005 11:50 AM
Replies: 521
Last post by: darkhorizon on 01-14-2009 01:32 AM
mcaanda
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Report this Post07-17-2005 11:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post
I OWN PAGE 2!

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
How does the heater core get it's coolant flow?
Just as important, doesn't something need to serve as a bypass until the thermostat opens? I remember reading some other posts that speculated that blocking these off was what was causing the mysterious "crushed thermostat" problem in other installs.
I know there's the largest possibility that I'm jumping the gun here, but no time like the present to ask.

Raydar:
Yes, you need to bring a new set of shorts the first time that you take one of these things out. The stock motors just don't seem to cut it when you take a spin in a Fiero that now feels like a pocket rocket.

Craig:
On my specific setup, I did infact have a modified Fiero “T-Stat” for the coolant lines to the heater core. At this time, I am using the stock 38oo “T-Stat” elbow, with a line that is tapped into the side of the intake manifold just next to the ECT sensor. I'm not sure how pre 88 Fieros are setup in regards to the coolant lines and heater cores, as I have not worked with the pre 88’s.

Also, I ditched the coolant surge tank in the front of the car for a self bleeding Vette setup, as seen here on the far left side next to the strut tower.
I have drilled the thermostat itself to allow for constant flow through the system, so that it’s self bleeding and will not cause issues.

I’d suggest that when you are looking at the way that I set up things in my GT, that you take a grain of salt and make sure that you can get away with what you are trying to get at if you are going to use mine as a reference. Especially with the way that I have the coolant lines and what not set up.

Keep it up, Im sure that there are more than a few that have bookmarkedthis thread!

--Allen

[This message has been edited by mcaanda (edited 07-18-2005).]

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RandomTask
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Report this Post07-18-2005 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
What are you guys doing with that big EGR canister thing? Also, theres another cylinder type thing on my motor, (not the MAP, but similar in size) what is that?
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Report this Post07-18-2005 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.8 SCSend a Private Message to 3.8 SCDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

What are you guys doing with that big EGR canister thing? Also, theres another cylinder type thing on my motor, (not the MAP, but similar in size) what is that?

A pic would help, but if I had to take a guess and if it is on the fuel rail. That would be the fuel ragulator. You will need that. As for the EGR canister thing? - I need a pic to tell you what that is.

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Report this Post07-18-2005 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.8 SC:
... As for the EGR canister thing? - I need a pic to tell you what that is.

I think he's talking about the evap canister that normally resides in front of the left shock tower.

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Report this Post07-18-2005 04:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.8 SC:


A pic would help, but if I had to take a guess and if it is on the fuel rail. That would be the fuel ragulator. You will need that. As for the EGR canister thing? - I need a pic to tell you what that is.


This is it...

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Report this Post07-18-2005 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.8 SCSend a Private Message to 3.8 SCDirect Link to This Post
Yes, that is part of the emissions system. I believe it is the purge valve for the canister. Here in Ohio, we can get away with not having to have emisssion equipment on our nondaily driven cars. So we remove them. I have see a few 3800 S/C swaps use the Fiero EGR and other emission equipment, to make the swap easier to install.

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Report this Post07-18-2005 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crazyfieromikeSend a Private Message to crazyfieromikeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.8 SC:

Yes, that is part of the emissions system. I believe it is the purge valve for the canister. Here in Ohio, we can get away with not having to have emisssion equipment on our nondaily driven cars. So we remove them. I have see a few 3800 S/C swaps use the Fiero EGR and other emission equipment, to make the swap easier to install.

you gota love those collector plates who needs emissions

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post07-18-2005 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Mcaanda... The Pre 88 Fieros has one tube that comes out of the water pump and faces toward the back of the car, it plugs into a line that swoops under the dog bone and into a line in the strut tower that runs along frame. That line follows along to the fire wall...

Here is where it leaves the water pump...

Here is how it ducks under the dog bone and into the metal line that runs along inter frame rail.

This is a shot of what im assuming is the return? it goes from the fire wall back into the thermostat housing... Under the BIG line.

I am almost positive this is how the 88 is set up too since we swapped (way back in the day) my old v6 and 5 speed from my Fiero (85) into Fieromaster88's fiero (was 4 banger auto) And we ran into no problems with heater lines!

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post07-18-2005 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post

The Fieromaster

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SOME BAD NEWS...

For one...

Darth Fiero no longer will program OBD II computers. If you are wondering why, you should contact him.. its not really my place. Although it isnt for any bad reason or anything.

For two...

DONT get a 96 PCM, ECU or whatever YOU call an engine computer. It is the BASTARD child of GM and NO ONE can tune it for you!!! Not Loyde, or DarthFiero. Instead there are a couple (2) things you can do... Go with the OBD I set up for your swap, OR go with the 97 OBD II ECU...
I am debating on wich way to go. I am going to call a couple yards... maybe i will luck out and they will trade me for what i need?? Maybe... I hope!

For Three...

I have been talking to "3.8 SC" and we are planning on doing our wiring together, as we both have the same swap going. Appearently he has a "jig" for the wiring... this should not only be AWESOME, but also make light work of a pain in the anus!

Will keep the pics comming too!!!

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Report this Post07-18-2005 07:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by The Fieromaster:

SOME BAD NEWS...

For one...

Darth Fiero no longer will program OBD II computers. If you are wondering why, you should contact him.. its not really my place. Although it isnt for any bad reason or anything.

For two...

DONT get a 96 PCM, ECU or whatever YOU call an engine computer. It is the BASTARD child of GM and NO ONE can tune it for you!!! Not Loyde, or DarthFiero. Instead there are a couple (2) things you can do... Go with the OBD I set up for your swap, OR go with the 97 OBD II ECU...
I am debating on wich way to go. I am going to call a couple yards... maybe i will luck out and they will trade me for what i need?? Maybe... I hope!

For Three...

I have been talking to "3.8 SC" and we are planning on doing our wiring together, as we both have the same swap going. Appearently he has a "jig" for the wiring... this should not only be AWESOME, but also make light work of a pain in the anus!

Will keep the pics comming too!!!

1. Is Loyde still repomming? He seems to do a great job. (he did mine)
2. I didn't know there was something between OBD 1 and II
3. I'm doing the wirign right now, its not as hard. Lots of following wires & double checking, but not hard at all...

Joe

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post07-18-2005 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Yes Lloyde is still programing... I also think Darth is still doing OBD I only.

There is a big difference from what i understand between the way OBD I and II work, however i dont know if either has more of a performance advantage above another... That may be debatable.

Are you wiring it to all be hidden or are you wiring it normal? Getting rid of your emissions or leaving them? Any progress pics of YOUR swap?

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Report this Post07-18-2005 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
here is some candy....



Be sure to write down the wiring pinouts that will help as well.

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88 GT, 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. Custom

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post07-18-2005 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
DAMN Revin... that looks awesome! Whats that thing run in the 1/4??

Do you have any belt slipage problems with only <180* wrap on the charger pulley??

All these engine pics are getting me all excited to get mine done but have to wait for the coin to come... ack... dammit!!!

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Report this Post07-18-2005 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
In the center pic above, is that a custom dog bone bracket? Also a note on reprogramming. Yes OBDII ECMs are hard to reprogram, but if you are using the OBDII ECM that trols the 3800SC, what is the concern?. The ECM is already programmed for boosted operation.
Now If one wants total flexibility for a heavily modified 3800SC then an aftermarket laptop programmable ECM such as the Accel may be the bill. I believe that they are about $900 though.

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RandomTask
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Report this Post07-18-2005 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post

Less the sensor wires coming from it, there are only two wires going to the ECM from this thing. MIL control. What the hell is that? And Evap Canister. I took a look at my evap canister, and theres no electronics on it... do I need to keep any of this?

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 07-18-2005).]

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Report this Post07-18-2005 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.8 SCSend a Private Message to 3.8 SCDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Less the sensor wires coming from it, there are only two wires going to the ECM from this thing. MIL control. What the hell is that? And Evap Canister. I took a look at my evap canister, and theres no electronics on it... do I need to keep any of this?

MIL control, yes. It stands for "malifunction indicator light". In other words, it is your "sevice engine soon" light.
As for Evap control, That depends, are you the Fiero's canister or the donor car's canister?

Sorry, if you see me on this a lot. I think this thread is very interesting

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RandomTask
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Report this Post07-18-2005 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, thanks, I just found out what it is.
Why would it run from the ECM to a sensor, shouldn't it run from the ECM to the connection block for the donor vehicle? In other words, what should I be doing with this?

I'm using the fiero's EVAP canister.

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Report this Post07-18-2005 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Grim001Send a Private Message to Grim001Direct Link to This Post
Hey, I am still a little confused about the heater hose arrangement. I too want to get rid of the large bracket for the alt. and maybe move the alt. down. I noticed you plugged up the hose ports. What exactly did you use for your heater core? I like Riven's setup too! Where can I get a backet like either of these. Thanks for the great thread.

Brandon

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Report this Post07-18-2005 11:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
Well i'm writing down the pinouts for you guys... but mine is for a manual install...
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revin
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Report this Post07-18-2005 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
master, 13.2 1/4's belt slipage?not that I noticed.
I just shaved atad off the engine block side a t
Dennis, The one in my pic is the stock gtp one.I just shaved a tad off the engine block side and
ta da!
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Report this Post07-19-2005 12:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
you'll notice a bunch of belt slipping at a 3.25 and under pulley, some might not but many have on clubgp. I did later on, I smoked the belt woohoo! Still should get the 3 1/2" tensioner pulley to cover yourself it'll give a better wrap on the blower belt

well since everyone else is doing it.. oh yeah Craig if you're fast enough keys are in the car just swap your motor with mine. I won't notice but be warned I do clean it every 2-3 days

[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 07-19-2005).]

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Report this Post07-19-2005 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by revin:

here is some candy..

That aint candy, this is candy.......


Ok--enough clouding up his build Thread with pictures. Revin is better(but slower) being he did all his work, I had Lyode do my wirining so mine is only 95% done by me.

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Grim001
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Report this Post07-19-2005 12:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Grim001Send a Private Message to Grim001Direct Link to This Post
Low_key where did you get that fuel rail? I need one.

Brandon

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Report this Post07-19-2005 03:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pred1tor83Send a Private Message to pred1tor83Direct Link to This Post
hey i got a step by step build too

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/056384.html

[This message has been edited by pred1tor83 (edited 07-19-2005).]

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RandomTask
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Report this Post07-19-2005 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post

Mcaanda, where did you get these two tensioners from?

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Report this Post07-19-2005 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ohio86seClick Here to visit ohio86se's HomePageSend a Private Message to ohio86seDirect Link to This Post
revin,

coulld explain your fuel line hook?
thanks,

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Report this Post07-19-2005 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
Well since I can not afford the fuel rails, I had to get creative.
I used a tubing bender and just bent them back over the top. ( I couldn't stand looking like Mustangbeware's )
That is the cheap / simple way.... and you can tell that I did not do it very well (scarey without a backup rail system)

What I should have done was like Skitime and robecky (sp?) did which was to rebraze new tubes on the rails for a even more impressive way of getting the fuel to the rails. I think you need a fuel line fix kit from napa. then just solder away !!!

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Report this Post07-19-2005 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.8 SCSend a Private Message to 3.8 SCDirect Link to This Post
Thats how I built the fuel line on Rborecky Fiero! Yes, I used the fuel line kit from NAPA. Here is another pic of the fuel line, after it was sand blasted and painted.

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revin
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Report this Post07-19-2005 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.8 SC:
Thats how I built the fuel line on Rborecky Fiero!

Huh are you making another one?? pick me!

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post07-19-2005 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Grim001:

Low_key where did you get that fuel rail? I need one.

Brandon

I think he got his rails from ZZPerformance... although he has a intercooler under that blower... that short lucky lil bastard!

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Report this Post07-19-2005 05:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:
Mcaanda, where did you get these two tensioners from?



#1 is a GTP tensioner
#2 is a custom alum. mount, that is actually going to be no longer required as soon as I get the PS unit in there to act like a tensioner.

It should be up FS here in ~2/3 weeks dependent on the ammount of time that I have to get things ready for the PS.

--Allen

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Report this Post07-19-2005 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Grim001:

Low_key where did you get that fuel rail? I need one.

Brandon

Those are PRJ fuel rails, you can look them up on the web. ZZPs rails are rounds and look better IMO.

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post07-19-2005 07:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
RandomTask you could always go with this setup if you are not going to be using AC.
I have no AC compressor so this may be my only resort

[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 07-19-2005).]

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Report this Post07-19-2005 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ohio86seClick Here to visit ohio86se's HomePageSend a Private Message to ohio86seDirect Link to This Post
thanks revin,

i have seen rick borecky's and don zeyer's fule line set-up and yes it really is a very good job. i was there when the bench tested it.
i have already bent my fuel rail very much like yours but what im curious about is the connection at the rail and the hoses. do you have male screwed fittings at the fiero lines? i may end up doing just what they did.

thanks,

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Report this Post07-20-2005 09:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinDirect Link to This Post
just hose clapmed (real tight )
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Report this Post07-20-2005 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post

Where did you get these?


are they the same as these ones? if so, how the hell do you get those things off? I know the bolt is reverse thread, but I can't figure out how to dismount the assembly. Thanks!

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 07-20-2005).]

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post07-20-2005 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Random task... i think that the tensioners are the stock ones but re-positioned? Im not sure, the one on the right is HOWEVER it is mounted on a 1998 GTP pulley bracket wich you will NEED to use because the other one (stock one) sticks out to far.
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Report this Post07-22-2005 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87FieroGTSend a Private Message to 87FieroGTDirect Link to This Post
Any more progress on this?

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Report this Post07-22-2005 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.8 SCSend a Private Message to 3.8 SCDirect Link to This Post
Bump

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Report this Post07-22-2005 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

do I need to keep any of this?

You only need that connector if you are installing anti-lock brakes So no, you don't need that connector.

Pete

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