I just got this email from Chris at XtremeDoors. I can't believe the gaul! You read and provide feedback...

I wrote back the following...

Chris,

You're not being serious are you?

The quality of your install was substandard. You rushed and never got thigs done right. You never sent me the parts you said you were going to send. Remember? How selective is your memory?

You could have emailed me or called about your situation. You did nothing. You hid. You did not return any of my dozen or so phone calls about the problems I was having. Call you now about failing struts? How - until today you were gone?

What am I supposed to do? It's not my fault you disappered for 6 months and did nothing to contact me. I have a product that did not function after a VERY short time frame. I have no recourse or manner to contact you and you have the gaul to question my ethics. If you were responsible, you'd drive to my place and fix everything. Make it right. Are you saying that's what you are going to do? All of your rationalisation in your email below is just that. You're not taking responsibility for your FAILURE to contact me with a new number or anything.

I'm not afraid of you or your brother. Your business problems are yours - not mine. I don't care what happened to you and your business. You chose not to return any calls or even attempt to contact me. (I know I'm being repetitive - but maybe, just maybe, this might sink into your brain!)

My comment about running you over is a description of how badly you handled my as a client - I paid cash up front and as far as I'm concerned you ripped me off. I'd never take physical violence as a manner to settle a dispute. The words describe how poorly my experience was with you. Anything positive I might have said while the work was being done was said to encourage you to complete the job - to no avail.

What about my slashed trailer tires? I could go on, but unless you and your brother have some way to make ammends to me - don't expect anything from me short of the hard plain truth.

Grow up? Looks like you need a lesson in business ethics - a concience - and a real ability to repair the wrong you've done to me.

You should be ashamed of yourselves!!!!


--- inform@xtreme-doors.com wrote:

> Â
> Hey Dave,
>
> Firstly, let me begin by explaining our situation, although I am sure you have already heard it from > Jay.
>
> Shortly after doing your car we ran into HUGE financial problems, which were the result of many
> things (the break in, kits that were made and never paid for, bad decisions, etc) and hence, we moved
> out of the shop, stopped making kits, and got jobs. That was the only thing we could do.. Xtreme-Doors
> was our only job, and with it shut down, we had no source of income.
>
> The reason for our dissappearence was because we had no money, huge debt, and were pretty embarrassed
> about the whole situation, not asking for sympathy, just explaining how it was.
> Now on to your kit.. Let me quote from your most recent post on www.fiero.nl .
>
> "The passenger door strut gave up after only a few openings - say 25. The driver side is weak and if it
> hasn't blown over the winter will likely be needing a replacement very soon. I ordered new struts from
> Lambodoors and have 950lb rated units. The crap installed by XtremeDoors was supposed to be rated at
> 900lbs - but like I said - was likely the worst crap they could get their hands on.
>
> The XD guys have supposedly contacted Jay to make things right, but I don't expect they are capable or
> evne have a capacity of being honest. I'd never go anywhere near them ever again. Crap service, crap
> product. Crap service is even way to nice a word to use. If I pass them on the road and see they've been
> run over - will likely take a second shot at them myself just to make sure they don't rip anyone else
> off."
>
> The crap service comment I can take, we did have very poor customer service. But as far as the part
> about running us over, like come on..You are how old. That is by far the most pathetic and sickening
> comment I have ever seen someone make about another person. That shows a lot of character. When we first
> came on to this site, we were ridiculed and we tried our best to keep our cool and take the critism that
> came.
>
> I can personally say, that I nor Chris ever received a PM or email stating the shocks had failed. These
> shocks were bought from a VERY reputible company based out of the US, and are not the cheapest crap
> we could find. Where do you even get off making a comment such as that. The shocks are the one
> component we do not make and this is what failed. It could have failed because of many factors, perhaps
> one of the end fittings binded causes side stress, this would blow it immediately, perhaps a faulty
> seal, perhaps moisture leaked into the shock itself, these are all things we try to avoid, and you can
> bet that I will be contacting the shock manufacturer and getting an explaination. As for the capacity of
> being honest, say what you want, you are entitled to that, but we have contacted jay to try and make
> things right, but please, have some class in your comments.
>
> I dont think we have to even bring up your reviews on the site of our kit. But I am going to. Below are
> some quotes
>
> So - dealing with Chris was not a problem at all. They are really just getting started and the door
> hinge design is about 99.5% perfect. Any issues are most liklely due to them doing so much to get a
> business set up and them being so young (nothing wrong with that).
>
> You were never left in the dark about progress or any issues when we had your car. We were always
> quick to respond to you and answer any questions. As well we held true to our deadlines.
>
> My first impressions - doors open smoothly and the shock is well balanced for the set-up. It's almost a
> neutral set-up - meaning the door will not fly up or drop down if you let it go either way. The window
> seals (on my chop) are exactly as they were before the hinge install. Panel fit is pretty darned good -
> but I think there is a little larger gap at the front - it may also be due to the shinny bits of the
> hinge you can see through the gap that might make this seem wider. If you stand back - the overall
> gaps are pretty even at the front and back of the door.
> This shows that the kit worked as it should when your car left our shop, aside for a gap at the lower
> leading edge. I can also say, that we received no emails regarding problems with the kit or shocks.
> Ok Guys and Gals – here’s my update on the Xtreme Door Hinges
>
> I drove up on Friday morning and got into London at 9:00am. Chris and his brother took about and hour
> and a half to make my final adjustments. Both doors open and close easy and smooth – from either the
> inside or outside. My 90 degree hinges leave a small gap at the front lower part of the inside of both
> doors. A little weather striping will close it up.
>
> I also suggested two modifications to the hinges. The first is a spacer for the door stops rather than
> using ten or so washers. The second is a block to replace the two steel lengtheners on the lower door
> guide post – and to get a round machined ball for the same part. Chris said both will be done, but
> could not be too specific on the availability of these replacement parts. As it is everything
> functions well and the fit of the windows is as it was before the hinge upgrade.
>
> I did have to trim back the two front fender bumper moldings and you do have to trim a tiny bit of the
> inside of the fender to allow that lower door guide post to clear. The struts are almost neutral –
> with a slight edge to rising if held mid point up the arc. In cold weather this might reverse if the
> hydraulics are cold – but I don’t need to worry about that. The action is very smooth and the doors
> can be opened and closed with one hand – easy.
>
> I’ve included a number of pictures and a link to some very crappy videos. I used my 6mp camera for
> the videos – and I apologize up front for the panting! The doors are not heavy – just the pickup
> on the camera is about two inches from my mouth when I held the camera to see through the viewfinder!
>
> This just again shows that the kit was still working a week and a half after the install. Again, we do
> not make the shocks, and had we still been in business or even had money, we would have replaced
> the shocks. But I did not get a message about them, I simply stumbled upon your post on the forum saying
> they had blown. From all other posts I have checked, I have not heard of any other problems with your
> kit, but if that is not the case please let me know, but all other posts state you are just replacing the
> struts. So if it is just the struts, how is the product as a whole crap? The fact of the matter is,
> the kit was working great, and we had no knowledge that it wasnt. Once we ran into the financial
> problems, we were not on the fiero site at all, and have just recently been on it.
>
> I guess that is all I have to say at this point really. I was truely sicked and frankly quite sad to
> see your most recent post about us. You were extremely nice to us when you were at our shop, you
> had nothing but nice things to say about our kit, the work we did on your car.. Funny how things can
> change so drastically. I can assure you of this tho, Jays problems will be rectified, and we will make up
> for any wrong doings with him. That is a promise we will keep. We have been working for sometime now,
> and are finally starting to get back on our feet and will continue to do so. Did we make some huge
> mistakes, absolutely, will I deny that, NO. But people make mistakes, stuff happens, and we are
> going to do everything we can to correct all wrongs, whether you believe it or not. With fixing Jays kit,
> unfortunately we have to work around our work > schedule now.
>
> Please feel free to email me back with any questions, comments, whatever. We are done hiding,
> and are back to make things right and to get back on a good path.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kyle and Chris Wesley
> Xtreme-Doors

What douches

mmmm... i smell cockmonguels.....argggg

Geezs, these guys don't give-up do they.

------------------


"Anyone can make a copy of something, it may look good, but never is the real car. Make something from your imagination, something unique, something nobody has, anything is possible and, ideas can become a reality; Archie and the Crew can make your Dreams into a reality."

These guys are shameless. They are using my car picture (without my permission) for their old hinges.

http://www.highcalibermotorsports.com/

Email them at onlinesales@highcalibermotorsports.com and let them know that the wolf in sheeps cloathing has been found..

I need to get a lawyer on them ASAP.

Aaaaaggghh! And I almost fell for it.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/069690.html

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy

[This message has been edited by whadeduck (edited 02-28-2008).]

Note to self...just because someone has a splashy web page doesn't mean they are a legitimate business. These guys are something else.

Yes you should get a lawyer on them and make them remove your car from their webpage. I don't know about any one else but the description cuts off on the home page I have quoted it here
"We sell only the highest quality Lambo/Vertical Door Systems. This ensures a kit that has a perfect fit and finish everytime."

[This message has been edited by Fierotaz (edited 02-28-2008).]

not only would I get them to remove your car from the page I would make them pay you for the time it has been there

I'm planning on setting up a Product Reviews section on FieroDomain.com , if you felt like taking the time to write one up for their system I could host it.

------------------
www.FieroDomain.com
"If any car is both the parade and the rain, it is the Fiero"

Play UnrealTournament? Join my Server:

[This message has been edited by Xanth (edited 02-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Note to self...just because someone has a splashy web page doesn't mean they are a legitimate business. These guys are something else.

Yeah but, due to the low cost, someone in the Fiero community will be tempted to try and buy them. I'd bet if they sold them for $100 bucks, they'll be suckers lining up to buy it with their pockets wide open. Actually, at the price they're selling them for, you can purchase the legit-ones for $600.

How do you just happen to see what was written here on PFF? He knew about it - and guess what? It doesn't cost anything to read these pages.

Any decent business person would follow what is being said and written about his company - ESPECIALLY after it went down. If a business is closed, it doesn't mean what's going on is none of your business! I'm sure he had to have been following the comments.

When we hear that they came out to your house and fixed EVERYTHING, then I'll at least listen to what they have to say. Until then, they are still a closed business.

If I were in your shoes, CPU, I'd run them over, too. I wouldn't be the first to run over them, but if they were still squirming on the side of the road after scamming me, I'd "accidentally" bump into them - even as they were promising that they did not scam you.

I hope they come knocking on your door to make things right...

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Yeah but, due to the low cost, someone in the Fiero community will be tempted to try and buy them. I'd bet if they sold them for $100 bucks, they'll be suckers lining up to buy it with their pockets wide open. Actually, at the price they're selling them for, you can purchase the legit-ones for $600.

Actually, for $100 or even $200 they could sell me a set or 3 without the struts. The metelwork is worth that, and it is close enough that with some patience, the right tools, and lots of time to fiddle they could be made to work.

I had Jay's in my hands today, and there really is nothing wrong with the machining/welding portion of the hinge. For a small-shop production piece its actually damn good (whomever made it for them deserves the praise, its earned in the product).

As for the business practice, I am sad to say they were likley also attendees of what is considered one of the most prestegious business universities in Canada. Western's Ivy School of Business. I did thier program in the mid-90's, and what they teach and call "business", the Criminal Code calls "fraud".

In a nutshell, have an idea (and nothing else--no staff, no facilities, no backing) then go out and sell it. Accept orders AND deposits, make promises, go to the bank and use those orders and deposits to leverage a start-up loan and hope to hell it all works out in the end. Fine and dandy if it does, but we are seeing what happens when it doesnt.

Its a slimey way to do business and I refuse to even go near that so-called university anymore, but it does seem to be the new standard.

They left my friend Jay with a car he couldn't use safely. All sorts of work to put the car back to his "Before" condition.

Sure they had some bad luck, but, the business practices sucked big time. I couldn't recommend them regardless of the quality of the machine work. BTW, the Ivey School of Business is very reputable and produces some of the finest business people in the country. It is not their fault when a couple of yahoos go through their doors. I wouldn't go so far as to criticize the school for being associated any more than I'd criticize Dr CPU for trusting them. Bad business is bad business.

Arn

Hey Arn....I probably should make it clear that I dont know if they did or did not go there, just saying its likley since the pattern fits the teaching and the locale, and I have a real distaste for doing things that way.

Mind ya, that probably why I am fixing machinery for a living instead of making/selling it.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 02-28-2008).]

I received another email from Chris. I've added my comments in bold below each paragraph that warranted a response. My desire is to be fair and transparent. you can make up your own minds. The ending of their email holds a whisp of promise. I reserve further comment until I hear from them in person. Thanks for putting up with me and this post! I'm only doing it for other Fieor owners. DrCPU aka TazmnDvl and Flash


Hi Dave,

First off, the install was not substandard, nor was it rushed. We had your car for a week, and used that time to take our time and install the kit correctly. Furthermore, the parts that we were going to send could not be sent, why, because we did not have any money to send them, let alone get them made. We rely on the parts to be made by other suppliers, so if we have no money, we cannot get them made.

The front fender bumper guards would not stay on if you opened the doors. They had to hang forward 4” and would fall off and get lost if I drove the car that way. Also, the door latch mechanism wasn’t working of the driver side. I had to crawl through the car from the passenger side, start the car then roll down the window to then unlock the door. I had to come back a second time for you to correct the door latch, but there was no time to adjust the doors so the interior of the doors made full contact with the weather-stripping. You had my car for a full week. As per your add and promise – it should have been perfect. As is I cannot bring the car through a car was without washing the interior of the car at the same time.

How is the product malfunctioning? As far as I know, the only problem is the shocks not working. While this is a malfunction, it is easily correctable. While we are out of business, there are other companies that sell the replacement shocks, and you knew what force was needed. As for the one shock not holding the door up below 10C , this cannot always be helped. As the temperature goes down, the force is the shock decreases, we cannot change this. So we could put on a stronger shock, but then you run the risk of having a door that works well in cold weather, but is extremely hard to shut during the warmer days. The shock worked fine when tested.

The passenger side shock failed September 9th at the Fierorama car show. It was very warm. So that’s about two months of use – with less than 25 openings and closings. Your design isn’t real life tested. I and Jay are both proofing your design. The struts were devoid of any makings or labels. Jay had a bit of paper taped to one of his units with a hand written 900lb text. I guessed that’s what I have and ordered 950lb struts from a company in the US. It does stand to reason that the struts will weaken over time. Your design has no allowance for this. Is 950 ok? I don’t know and won’t until I get these new units installed. My new units do come with a manufacturer label – made in Germany.

And you explain your comments as well as saying that anything you said while the work was being done was simply to encourage us to finish the job. Ok, that I do not buy. So say that is true, then what is your reason for the good reviews on the forum. Was this to set other members up or what? Please explain this to me.. I have yet to meet a person that if they are unhappy about something, they just encourage the people so they finish.

Both of you do not realize that I was doing everything possible to help you out. Jay and I spoke a lot together about the problems and the best way (we thought) to get you to meet your own promises. I very carefully pointed out you should talk to Jay – to complete the deal you had with him. I also told you that a business manager would make a huge difference – as well as someone who returned calls and that you have a published phone number. I hire many people each year in a high tech area of expertise. I always pull for the new guy – especially if he or she is Canadian. You guys had a golden opportunity – and so far have blown it right out of the water yourselves. I’d have loved to be able to say the installation was as advertised and fully meets the statements of claim. I could not say this and rather than publish a list of problems that you and your brother assured me you’d correct – you both chose to ignore me. Where is my invoice? When you promised to make those parts I suggested (improvements) there wasn’t any – if I make money or any other caveats. You made bold statements and I took you at your word – even if I felt you had a very low chance of meeting these promises. You see I base my opinion on a person or company when they give me their word. I form my own opinions based on my own personal experience. I’ve awarded hundred thousand dollar contracts for services to firms who I know will deliver versus someone I don’t know, without a past who say “trust me”. I do go out on ledges for young entrepreneurs as I like to be part of a solution rather than a problem. I also phoned you with an order from a Fiero Forum member who really wanted them but refused to send you cash. He asked me to be a broker and only pay if I picked up the set and the set was complete. Here you had an order – and money waiting and you never bothered to return my calls. I did everything humanly possible to give you positive and directed feedback. I wanted you to succeed. When you closed shop I had no way of contacting you. You chose not to communicate with me. It’s very simple. You failed to complete my install when you sold me set of hinges that was fully paid for by myself that included installation fees without finishing the job.

As for the slashed tires, you left the trailer outside, in a public parking lot. We were not there to monitor the parking lot 24/7. If you were worried about your trailer then it should have been brought back with you. You asked if you could keep it there, not the other way around. We were new to the area and did not know that would happen, so I do not see how we can be held responsible, and again, hard to replace something when we have no money.

Let’s be clear here. I asked you if the area was safe. Had there been any problems in the area? You said no and that the trailer would be fine. I know it's my decision and my ultimate responsibility. This is the kicker. You told me this even though you had just been robbed and vandalized the week before – maybe even two days before. Jay had his stereo and plates stolen from his Fiero. A Camaro (or something like it) was also stolen – or so you told me. I had no idea you suspected a problem client had set you up for the robbery until I asked you two weeks later to fix the door latch etc. Had you told me the plain truth up front I would have never left my car with you for the week – nor would I have left my trailer in the parking lot. The tires were likely slashed by the same individual who broke in. They probably thought the trailer was yours. As you held back material information from me I made a decision that cost me money and trouble. In a court of law you would be found partially responsible for the vandalism to my trailer.

I find it very hard to believe that you can say all of those nice things when you were down at our shop and turn around and its completely different. Also, you brought your car back for us to fix the locking mechanism, and we did this. Were any issues brought up during that visit.. no they were not. And the whole time we worked on your car you were standing right there. As for the gap, all of us, including you were aware of this (you brought it to our attention), and told us it was no big deal and that you would just add some weather stripping.. No once did you ask us to try and correct it, so that is an issue we didn’t even get a chance to correct. Had you wanted it corrected, we could have done so when fixing the locking mechanism, it would have required us to simply remove the fender and make adjustments to the arm. Also, you say there is a major gap now, where is this?

See above and the fact you would not return calls or email to make arrangements for you to finish the install.

As for you posting the entire email on the Fiero forum, that is fine by us. We are not hiding anymore. As far as the phone call comment, I can assure you that neither my brother or I were in the background, had we been there we would have taken the call. Again, if the kit was that bad, then why were you purchasing one for a friend? I do not understand that.

See comment two up. He’s not a friend – but wanted them dearly. You still haven’t told me why you would not return calls. My feedback was positive – but not fully endorsing. Why not return a basic call or even an email?

As for your posts being factual, please, explain to me what made the installation so poor and the product so poor. I have only heard of the shocks failing, and apparently the kit is still working as you only mention in posts that you are replacing them and nothing else. I am just trying to get all the information so that I can figure this out. The one strut you say has a bad seal, we did not make the struts, however they do come from a very reputable business and had we still been in business they would have been replaced for free. As for the other shock, I have already explained that above. As for the gap, this was not noticed until you brought it to our attention. We could have adjusted the kit to eliminate this, however we were not asked to do so, not even on your second trip out.

As for the scratch on the driver side, we did not see this, nor were we made aware of it. And again, you say there are a lot of things wrong with the kit, well, please tell me what so we can figure it out. Beside the gap and the shocks, what else is there?

Again, selective memory – I pointed out the mar in the clear coat. I even asked if you had buffing compound and a buffer. You said no. I said I’d likely take care of it later. I mention this now because it points to the quality and care of the install. The mar was made when you first put on the driver side door. The arc is obvious. My car was in your hands – you were fully responsible for it. Even though you had it for a full week - you were both wroking on it feverishly when I showed up to pick up a finished car. To be honest, I was more thankful to see my car had not been stolen and wasn't focusing on the install.

On the customer service side of things, yes, we do full heartedly apologize. This was our weak point and we did not do ourselves any favors that’s for sure. But as far as the install and product were concerned, we did not know you were unhappy nor did we receive any correspondence with you stating that you were. We were on the Fiero forum for a bit after the install before things went south financially. Please send me pictures of the kit so I can see if there is any wear or anything damaged, I truly want this information to figure out what is so different then when the car left our shop.

The doors and hinges have not moved since your install. I have not tried to fix anything. The gaps and fitment are as you set it up. You are welcome to see it for yourself.

Lastly, as far as the picture on our new site is concerned, that site is hardly new and you did give us permission at the shop to use your car on our website. In fact, you stood with us as we took pictures of your car out behind our shop. However, the site is no longer used, and if you want your picture removed, that’s fine as it is your car and you have the right to request it be taken down, however the lawyer comment was not needed or called for.

I added detail to this in the High Caliber Motorsports posting. You in no way had my permission for this company and I reneged on the use of my car image for Xtreme-Doors in the last communication we had – the one that requested payment for the slashed tires.

So please, let me know what all is wrong with the kit so that these issues can be resolved. I told you we were done hiding from any problems and that we would get to the bottom of the problems, and we need your help in doing so by letting us know what needs to be fixed. When we figure out what needs to be fixed, we will personally come and do the required adjustments and repairs. Lets get things how they should be. I will also get that receipt for you.

Chris and Kyle. I thank you for your offer. I applaud your desire to try and rectify these issues. If you are good to your word, and the kit fits as described, that I can promise you that I will be the first person to acknowledge this to the community. It’s been 9 months for me and much longer for Jay. Our issues and deals are different. He was your prototype – I paid full retail (at that time) plus installation - $900. Live up to your word and have people like Jay and I will gladly give you permission to use a testimony and you can get your products off the ground. Anything less is vapor. The Fiero community is small. We all know each other. I am an honest, but very straight forward person. If you make me a promise – you need to deliver. If I pay you for it - you have no choice but to deliver - or give me my money back.

The ball is in your court. You have my home phone number. You have my email. Fulfill your promises and we can be friends and laugh about this down the road. Consider it a life lesson in business.

"Making mistakes is natural throughout life. Admitting them and being responsible for them is the difference between being a child and a responsible adult."



Also, the post titled WARNING XtremeDoors is back is a bit misleading, we are back to correct the problems with the kits, however we have not resumed the business to date.

Chris and Kyle Wesley
Xtreme-Doors

[This message has been edited by DrCPU (edited 03-02-2008).]

What company made the struts?

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: What company made the struts?

I second that question, Rumor. I have to go out and check the name on the ones you gave me

Whade, I too almost fell for that ebay auction. The last thing I need are a pair of $600 paper weights LOL! (assuming they actually showed up) But seriously, the real shame is that there's a good market for affordable vertical door kits. the average name brand kits go for what $1500-$2500? Anyone who could put out a quality bolt on kit for less than a grand would probably have more business than they would know what to do with. Anyway, I wonder if Xtremedoors has made any ammends with the Mazda guys?

quote Originally posted by DrCPU: I received another email from Chris. I've added my comments in bold below each paragraph that warranted a response. My desire is to be fair and transparent. you can make up your own minds. The ending of their email holds a whisp of promise. I reserve further comment until I hear from them in person. Thanks for putting up with me and this post! I'm only doing it for other Fieor owners. DrCPU aka TazmnDvl and Flash Hi Dave, First off, the install was not substandard, nor was it rushed. We had your car for a week, and used that time to take our time and install the kit correctly. Furthermore, the parts that we were going to send could not be sent, why, because we did not have any money to send them, let alone get them made. We rely on the parts to be made by other suppliers, so if we have no money, we cannot get them made. ...

I stopped reading after the first paragraph... "We didn't have any money" is the weakest excuse I have ever heard coming from a "business" If I paid for a product, I expect the product...not some weak excuse. I paid a guy to paint my car two years ago, (sorry excuse for a painter) and somehow he didn't have the money to finish the job.

People that run their "business' like that should be banned for life from starting another one, unless they actually have some MONEY to actually deliver the product. I wouldn't give these guys any money if they were the last vertical door company on Earth.

They used the same excuse of "we have no money" as to why they havent shipped out the last three or four kits to our members and ALL of the struts. I still have zero members with a kit on a car! I even have offered SEVERAL times to have the ship me ALL of the struts and kits for the US members and i would ship them all at my own expense....nothing....

[This message has been edited by MX3GUY (edited 03-14-2008).]

Dave,
I can't believe how badly this has turned out and yet the saga continues! You put your faith and money up front, the least they could have done was to COMMUNICATE so that being said, can't say that I blame you for how you feel. So what are your plans to fix the TAZ or are you going to revert to the original hinges?

Gene

quote Originally posted by gaas88: Dave, I can't believe how badly this has turned out and yet the saga continues! You put your faith and money up front, the least they could have done was to COMMUNICATE so that being said, can't say that I blame you for how you feel. So what are your plans to fix the TAZ or are you going to revert to the original hinges? Gene

I'm waiting to hear from Chris. Have ten feet of snow to deal with now and am waiting to hear from Jay. Mid is offering a frame and panels to Chris - so will see. I have the original hinges so I can always fo back to regular (tm) doors....

I spoke with the guys last Monday, and they are going to call again this Mon to set up a specific date, but like Dr. DPU said, we are dealing with about 300,000 feet of snow and ice so that might slow things down a bit.

After all was done last weekend my GT was litterly burried to 1/2-way up the a-pillars, and I'm too lazy to dig it out yet. Ma nature is doing an admirable job of slowly getting rid of the stuff (its down to the top of the wheels) and I see no reason to interfere with her efforts <hehehehe>.

I hope that this works out for you and Jay. I haven't followed the threads about your experiences but I've been down the road of bad customer service a few times.

Prototype parts (I think those were Jays') are inevitably in need of tweeking and the people that design/produce them are the ones that should correct the issues before rolling them out to consumers. Am I correct in thinking Jay got an initial prototype and DrCPU got a slightly modified/revised hinge that had some of the issues fixed but still didn't function 'as advertised'.

Let me know if the situation falls through with the manufacturer again. I have acess to a toolroom and I might be able to come up with a functional fix.

David

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His Fiero: 1984 2M4 Coupe

Her Fiero: 1984 2M4 Convertible

Call me tommorow night if you arent working.

Not working. Can stop by too.

David

i've been following the multiple threads on this for a while,

i think these issues will follow these boobs around no matter where they go, but who would ever deal with anyone who is:
dishonest,
lacks ethics & proper business communication skills,
easily offer stories or excuses but not concrete solutions.

I'd get the police, a lawyer & small claims court involved asap.
In addition to Joe Pesci paying them a visit.

[This message has been edited by OHNIKO (edited 03-16-2008).]

Hi All. Sorry, I've been sitting in the background, busy with work, and electrical problems in my car.

Chris stopped by to show me the new hinge parts, and they appear to be making the corrections as recommended by Dave and I. He also stopped in to pick up my defective struts to return for replacements. The order is in with the laser cutters, and the new hinges should be ready to install in the next 2 weeks, according to Chris. I had a good talk with the guys, and I hope this all works well. Communication is the key here. I am very understanding and patient, as long as i know what's going on.

The install will be happening here in my garage, and I am not taking anything apart on the car until the product is ready to install.

Thanks also to Mid, and DPWood for your offers of help.

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Jay Brintnell
Southern Ontario Fiero Association
Yellow 85 Notchback(A.K.A. GodFearN)

The progress thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/077740.html

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited 03-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by OHNIKO: i've been following the multiple threads on this for a while, i think these issues will follow these boobs around no matter where they go, but who would ever deal with anyone who is: dishonest, lacks ethics & proper business communication skills, easily offer stories or excuses but not concrete solutions. I'd get the police, a lawyer & small claims court involved asap. In addition to Joe Pesci paying them a visit.

I wouldnt go quite that far....Most of the problems we have seen are VERY common with new start-ups. The causes are deadlines/pressure, underfunding and understaffing which faces ALL new companies in the begining. Whats important is the ability to learn from mistakes, not repeat them and go forward while improving.

When I had my woodshop my 1st group-buy type deal makes the Extreme MX-3 saga look like a smooth transaction, and I made some of the same R&D/marketing mistakes on some of my products. If (big if) I ever do another start-up, I now know many of the pitfalls and how to avoid them. The trade-off means that it would likley take me 18months to open the doors, rather than 3-4 months and THAT flies in the face of the way our entire society is tought things should work, but simple fact is you have to do a LOT of behind-the-scenes work 1st.

There are some things that cant be tought and only learned with experience. Its easy to get angry and frustrated when one is on the customer end of things, but when you are on the other side you learn what a-holes customers really are. EVERYBODY thinks they are special, EVERYBODY thinks the rules and policies should be bent "just for them, and EVERYBODY thinks they are 1st in line, and EVERYBODY thinks you should short the next customer in order to accomodate the above for them and EVERYBODY wants to call in lawyers and cops when they dont get thier own way. I deal with it every day, and trust me, its real-real easy to get jaded on humanity.

I say they are making a good effort, making definte progress, and will likley end up with a good product and viable business. Give 'em time.

If ANYONE actually speaks to Chris and or Kyle I would LOVE IT if someone could grab ALLLLL the remaining parts for the MX3 group buy and ship them to me. I would more than happily paypal you for the shipping!!!!!!!!!! Myself and all our members would be very very thankful for your help!

Hey guys,
I'm not an active side in this project, however In the spirit of good faith in the XD comeback as shown here : Chris and Kyle

I would recommend to close this thread with it's "WARNING" and either DrCPU, Eclipse or MidEngineManiac could start a new clean thread with the progress of the "new project" Let's call it "Xtreme-Doors Lambo doors redux" or something like it you get the point.

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T-Top Conversion~Dual HUD~LED Setup~Red Fieros~Montreal Club~Carputer