So I have been trying to figure out the best engine swap for my engine-less Fiero before i engage in it this summer and have been reading a lot about the new v6's like the 3.5 and 3.9. From reading it seems that the 3.5 would make about the same power as the 3.8 NA, but be easier to swap in because it could mount with the stock mounts and the 88 flywheel, its lighter from aluminum heads, better fuel economy, and its possible to get an extremely low mileage one from a yard for less than it would cost to rebuild any other engine. Please correct me if i am wrong about anything. Also, i assume it would have a lot more potential to sound nicer than the 3800 because it is a 60* v6 like the stock engine(I think that the 2.8/3.4 sound better than the 3.8)So why isn't hardly anyone doing it? is there something i dont know? Thanks a lot

Disclaimer: I do not know much, nothing other than from what i have read and researched

Blake Tate

getting the electronics to talk to eachother is a B*%ch. and as far as i know, the global V6 that GM is producing is all aluminum. Also, i'm fairly sure that the ECU has to see the BCM and vice versa before the engine will do anything (if you're using the stock harness) otherwise, use MegaSqurit, as it is inexpensive and effective.

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Arty: a.k.a. FestYboy or Fieroman87
'87 GT 5 spd. (soon to be 3.6L TT 6 spd.), '88 Festiva 5 spd. rockin' a high revin' 1.6, '87 Scirocco 5 spd. (VR6 swap?)
AIM: FestYboy88L

bump

do a search for Rickady88GT . he has one in his 88 GT.

here is one thread on his. a beautiful motor and i would like to see it hooked up to a 5-speed


https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-1-035053.html

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87 Fiero GT 5-speed.
99 CSVT 5-speed.

Well thanks for the post but i am actually talking about the new 3.5 60 degree v6 that is in the G6 and malibu. It is basically the same block as the camarobird 3.4, but puts out about the same numbers as a 3800 na, is lighter(Al heads), uses the stock engine mount, mounts to the tranny with the 88 flywheel, and puts out a great tune, plus there are brand new ones laying all around junk yards.......Why isn't this cathing on?? From what i hear the wiring is no harder than any other swap, and there is only a few mods to make this work in our cars....seems like a fairly cheap, not too tough upgrade for some good numbers, I think this would be the swap for me but i dont know why there is basically no info on it other than what Joseph Upson is doing (which looks like it will be awesome btw!)

I concidered this engine before I decided on a 3400. The 3.5's were really cheap and low miles but they came pretty stripped down and the cost seemed to add up quick so I went with the 3400. If I were you I would call pcmforless.com 1-704-307-4227 and see what he thinks about the anti-theft and transmission stuff. He probably can make it run right but the anti-theft will require you to use the ignition and BCM from the donor car. I also stumbled across a company overseas that used this engine for conversions with their own stand-alone computer. It seemed primitive and I wasn't wanting to deal with the overseas idea of it. Even before the reprogram on the 3400 the driveability was tolerable, so I say go ahead and do it.

So is that the reason why people dont do it because there is some wiring issues, it sounds like issues that are with every other swap? hmmm

Actually wiring was an issue for me but not for the difficulty. I was quoted $300 for a 3500 harness that they didn't even have in stock yet. I bought the 3400 harness for $135. If you are seriously planning on this engine I would consider buying a wrecked car to make sure you get everything you need.

I just got finished MSing my ecotec, and it is the way to go! Besides being just friggin cool, it seems endless. And you dont have to worry about all the PCM and BCM stuff.

any more on this engine? who has done one? thanks!!

Rickaddy's 3.5 is the Aurora engine - DOHC based on the Northstar design. aka: Shortstar.

The 3500 is a Gen III (or IV?) 60° pushrod engine that's also 3.5L and is about 200 HP stock.

Two totally different animals and the swaps will be very different.

Given the new electronics in the 3500, if it were me, I'd go ahead and try to do a 3.9L out of the G6 GTP. 240 HP normally aspirated (same as a 3800SC Series II) and lighter, too. Get one with the factory 6-speed and all you need are mounts - all the conversion required to mate the G6 6-speed to a regular engine goes away. Electronics is still an issue, but swapping it was a complete drivetrain would probably be easier in the long run. Failing that, I'd stick with the 3400 or another swap.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-10-2007).]

quote Originally posted by LZeppelin513: Well thanks for the post but i am actually talking about the new 3.5 60 degree v6 that is in the G6 and malibu. It is basically the same block as the camarobird 3.4, but puts out about the same numbers as a 3800 na, is lighter(Al heads), uses the stock engine mount, mounts to the tranny with the 88 flywheel, and puts out a great tune, plus there are brand new ones laying all around junk yards.......Why isn't this cathing on?? From what i hear the wiring is no harder than any other swap, and there is only a few mods to make this work in our cars....seems like a fairly cheap, not too tough upgrade for some good numbers, I think this would be the swap for me but i dont know why there is basically no info on it other than what Joseph Upson is doing (which looks like it will be awesome btw!)

blah! my bad, should have read your whole post instead of scanning it and seeing no one had responded.

good luck if you decide the swap!

TTT-Is this the same 3.5 in the new GM crossovers vehicles? I was hoping someone would pioneer this swap.

Given the new electronics in the 3500, if it were me, I'd go ahead and try to do a 3.9L out of the G6 GTP. 240 HP normally aspirated (same as a 3800SC Series II) and lighter, too. Get one with the factory 6-speed and all you need are mounts - all the conversion required to mate the G6 6-speed to a regular engine goes away. Electronics is still an issue, but swapping it was a complete drivetrain would probably be easier in the long run. Failing that, I'd stick with the 3400 or another swap.

[/QUOTE]

is the 3400 swap really easier? The engines cost the same. I know that the 3500 needs a crank trigger, but isnt that the only real diff in the install? Why would you stick to the 3400?

it does not matter what engine swap you talk about everyone will tell you electrics are a problem .this is only true if you try to interface the fiero dash and speedo etc with the new engine.if you find a wrecker that will supply the complete harness,ecm ,bcm ,steering collum with the keys and the instrument cluster ,it is all plug and play .you wont have a stock look any more but i dont care for the stock intsrument cluster anyway .after that axles are the problem ,nothing money or a few days at the wreckers cant fix.

Is there anyone here that even has this engine swapped and running?

[This message has been edited by LZeppelin513 (edited 05-11-2007).]

quote Originally posted by LZeppelin513: is the 3400 swap really easier? The engines cost the same. I know that the 3500 needs a crank trigger, but isnt that the only real diff in the install? Why would you stick to the 3400?

You can run the 3400 on OBD-I without too much trouble. I don't think it can control the 3500. But hey, someone has to be first, so give it a shot. Maybe it's easier than I'm thinking.

i do....take a look

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/088294.html

quote Originally posted by merlot566jka: i do....take a look

Yea i saw that. thats rad. Do you have it on the road yet? I did a 3400 this last summer with 7730 and a tune from sinister performance and i have no idea why so few ppl here on the forum use these 60 degree v6s. The swap was so easy and cost about 800 dollars to do including a 20k mile 2004 engine. Now i have a reliable car that i get 35 mpg with (getrag) and can smoke 95 percent of everything on the road(ive stoplight raced new gti's, 4th gen mustang gts, and my buddies wrx(non sti)). the other cool thing about our engines is that they sound so much better than most v6s. And yours does everything that much better than mine! haha
too bad you live so far away, i would love to get a ride in that thing. is that the 2ng gen 3500 or the first?
If i would have had more time and money i definitely would have went your route
again nice job on the swap. that thing revs reeeal nice

its an 06, but its the NON VVT. i didnt need the vvt to play with. i would like the vvt intake plenum tho.....

nope not on the road yet, waiting for my chip and about to put a new master cyl in. after my slave cyl was replaced i discovered the master leaking down the firewall....damned the luck

[This message has been edited by merlot566jka (edited 12-21-2007).]

i now have the car. merlot is my brother. im waiting on a chip to come in from darth then i can rock this thing out. i cant wait. once its up and going, i am going to take it to a local dyno here.

quote Originally posted by wftb: it does not matter what engine swap you talk about everyone will tell you electrics are a problem .this is only true if you try to interface the fiero dash and speedo etc with the new engine.if you find a wrecker that will supply the complete harness,ecm ,bcm ,steering collum with the keys and the instrument cluster ,it is all plug and play .you wont have a stock look any more but i dont care for the stock intsrument cluster anyway .after that axles are the problem ,nothing money or a few days at the wreckers cant fix.

This is how I am doing my next swap. An LS4, I have the ENTIRE wire harness from bumper to bumper, fuel sending unit out of the tank and the entire dash with steering column, key and electronics.
When I am done with this swap it will not only have keyless entry, it will have keyless start, hands free phone and satellite. ALL of the normal functions from the 06 Montecarlo will be installed. How does that sound for an electronic nightmare? It is already all wired up in the stock wire harness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOL9BeC4dyA
All I had to do was drop the fuel sending unit in a can of gas then connect a battery. I got it started before I even started the swap. Now all I have to do is put all this in a Fiero, It's that easy
I worked on the Short Star swap for over a year before I even heard it run.

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holy hell man, that sounds like its gonna be one HUGE PITA! good luck to you and many gold stars for doing this. i belive its darth that has this done for either himself or another member.

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3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, WOT-TECH crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels

The 3X00 engines can run off the 7730 ecm. Nothing too fancy there. The 3500 requires either an external crank trigger (60degreev60.com store has them) or changing the reluctor ring on the crank. The throttle body also needs to be changes back to drive-by-cable.

Chris