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New dash this weekend :) by pacethis
Started on: 02-24-2007 08:37 PM
Replies: 124
Last post by: americasfuture2k on 05-15-2008 12:03 PM
pacethis
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Report this Post08-21-2007 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

Is this photo of the Corvette gauges, or the Camero set?



Those are the Camaro gauges

Jscott1, not calling you out on the delay...mentioned you more so as you've been great to work with and wanted you to get the attention you deserve. It's people like you that truly make this forum a great place. I'm glad I had you do these for me as once I got involved, there was a lot I really didn't know how to do. Besides, it's left me more time this month to work on the Indy restoration.

Generally speaking, the corvette parts rundown will cost you something like this.

Dash, $100-150
Forward Console, $75-100
Rear Console w/ Lid, $50-75
Outer Gauge Surround, $25
Gauge Lens, $20
Driver's Knee Bolster and Glove Box, $50-100


So, it does add up, but if you find someone parting a car out local to you, you can probably half those prices as they're awkward to ship. I got most of the parts off of cars that I dismantled, etc. so it was cheaper for me.

BTW, those guages look way better than I expected. I paid like $35 for them on eBay, so they're pretty cheap. Of course, I have a dozen of the C5 clusters in stock that I'm selling for only $75-100...but again, I had no clue how to get them working in the car...
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3.8 SC
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Report this Post08-22-2007 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.8 SCSend a Private Message to 3.8 SCDirect Link to This Post
I would be interest in one of those Vette clusters. What is so special about them, that makes them hard to wire up?
BTW, if you dismantle any more C5 vettes, I am still looking for the dash parts as well. I guess what is making it hard to find is that I am looking for a dash with HUD.

Don Z.

[This message has been edited by 3.8 SC (edited 08-22-2007).]

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pacethis
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Report this Post08-22-2007 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.8 SC:

I would be interest in one of those Vette clusters. What is so special about them, that makes them hard to wire up?
BTW, if you dismantle any more C5 vettes, I am still looking for the dash parts as well. I guess what is making it hard to find is that I am looking for a dash with HUD.

Don Z.




I don't know that much about the wiring, I think maybe the cluster doesn't have a tach input as it gets it from the engine computer??? Ask jscott1 or someone that knows more about them and the wiring.

I can tell you that finding a dash with HUD is not a concern. My main business is HUD retrofits into early C5's, and all C5 dashes can be easily modified to accept HUD>...HOWEVER...if you want to install it in a Fiero, you're going to have to leave lots more dash than I did, which will cause the dash to stick into the cabin severely (another 6" or so minimum). That changes the entire geometry of the install,and I don't think it would work nearly as well. It would push the radio console back, not leaving room for the rear console, etc.

There are other HUD options in the aftermarket that might be easier...or you might consider pulling the C5 projector apart and placing the components in the dash area separately as most of the projector is empty space for mirrors, etc.

Best of luck!
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Report this Post08-22-2007 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.8 SC:

What is so special about them, that makes them hard to wire up?


It's not the Vette Cluster per se that's hard to wire up... But like OBD2, around 97-98 timeframe GM started using a serial data bus to wire up all the body conrol modules including the cluster in that mix. The Fiero and earlier clusters use analog voltages going to analog gauges. To use the vette C5, (or just about any other modern gauge) you would have to have an analog to serial data conversion, or build your own custom interface, (as Riceburner98 is proposing).

To avoid all this mess, you are going to want to use an "older" cluster.

FYI - Since pretty much all modern cars use all this fancy electronic hardware we are generically facing a dilemma that we neither need to figure out how to adapt all these fancy electronics to the Fiero, or forever be resigned to using the old parts. I think the market will step up and find ways for us to use the moden hardware on our cars.
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3.8 SC
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Report this Post08-22-2007 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.8 SCSend a Private Message to 3.8 SCDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


It's not the Vette Cluster per se that's hard to wire up... But like OBD2, around 97-98 timeframe GM started using a serial data bus to wire up all the body conrol modules including the cluster in that mix. The Fiero and earlier clusters use analog voltages going to analog gauges. To use the vette C5, (or just about any other modern gauge) you would have to have an analog to serial data conversion, or build your own custom interface, (as Riceburner98 is proposing).

To avoid all this mess, you are going to want to use an "older" cluster.

FYI - Since pretty much all modern cars use all this fancy electronic hardware we are generically facing a dilemma that we neither need to figure out how to adapt all these fancy electronics to the Fiero, or forever be resigned to using the old parts. I think the market will step up and find ways for us to use the moden hardware on our cars.


So if I already have the series 2 computer in my Fiero, running a 3800 S/C engine. Should I be able to use the Vette cluster?
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jscott1
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Report this Post08-22-2007 03:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.8 SC:


So if I already have the series 2 computer in my Fiero, running a 3800 S/C engine. Should I be able to use the Vette cluster?


That might make it a bit easier to hack the system, but it's still not going to be plug and play. The software to run that cluster I'm sure is not in the 3800SC computer. Someone would have to figure all that out and write the code. If you were running an LS1/LS2 I might says it's a bit more possible.

It's way above my level of understanding to figure it all out. Maybe 20 years from now when all the old analog electronics are gone, I'll figure it out.
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Report this Post08-23-2007 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.8 SCSend a Private Message to 3.8 SCDirect Link to This Post
I did a little reseach, today. You are right. The Vette cluster's serial data link is over my head. I still like the looks of the Vette cluster. So, I will make it easier on myself and convert the cluster to the Fiero gauges. (Putting the guts of the Fiero cluster into the Vette Cluster). This will make it easier to mount the gauges, back into the dash and I will be able to use the Fiero wire harness.
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Report this Post08-23-2007 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 8BallSend a Private Message to 8BallDirect Link to This Post
Well this little project seals the deal for me. My next Fiero must have a vette engine and interior
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pacethis
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Report this Post10-18-2007 12:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys, Had a few hours free this week...got the gauges in. A HUGE THANKS TO JSCOTT here for his help. He really did a great job. Haven't tested the speedo yet, but all other gauges are working great. I'm done with the final fitting of the instrument cluster itself, and will be using the stock dash trim and speedo lens as the Corvette dash, then custom molding a surround between the two areas, possibly just leather?

I'm going to finish it up to drive it a little as I'm getting ready to sell my Escalade due to the Gas prices...lots of work to do to get it back on the road!

Here are a few pics...


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Report this Post10-18-2007 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Wii BirdClick Here to visit Wii Bird's HomePageSend a Private Message to Wii BirdDirect Link to This Post
WOW,
I must say I seen the first picture and I was a littly iffy on the looks, but the final picture of the cluster, and it looks really really nice!
Great Work!
Good Luck with selling the Esclade, gas prices suck. Try living in Canada, it is $1.02.9 and it is going up tonight.
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Report this Post10-18-2007 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pacethis:

Hey guys, Had a few hours free this week...got the gauges in. A HUGE THANKS TO JSCOTT here for his help. He really did a great job.


Congratulations, that looks great.

You're Welcome on the gauges. It was a fun job doing the Camaro ones for a change.
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pacethis
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Report this Post12-04-2007 02:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
Okay guys, here is a couple of update photos. Interior still needs 5-10 hours of custom finish work, so some things that don't look quite right are already planned for redo...but overall, the interior is nearing completion...Forgive the quality of the photos, I just took them and the lighting isn't the best for photos, but you get the idea...







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Report this Post12-04-2007 07:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TXGOODClick Here to visit TXGOOD's HomePageSend a Private Message to TXGOODDirect Link to This Post
That`s looking really good.
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Report this Post12-04-2007 09:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for whadeduckSend a Private Message to whadeduckDirect Link to This Post
Looks superfantabulous. With all of the goodies on the dash now, are you going to upgrade to power windows?

------------------
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pacethis
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Report this Post12-04-2007 11:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
No, I'm honestly probably going to have to sell the car, which is a shame as I've got well over 100 hours in the dash install alone...

However, even if I was going to keep it, power windows just wouldn't be on my to-do list. I like the simplicity of the old crank windows...they don't slow down, and always work.
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crytical point
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Report this Post12-04-2007 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crytical pointSend a Private Message to crytical pointDirect Link to This Post
now get the 91-96 door panels to work and you should be set.
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Report this Post12-04-2007 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageSend a Private Message to kawanaDirect Link to This Post
wowzers! That looks perfect! I think that is the dash im gunna do in mine. Great job.
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Report this Post12-04-2007 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pacethis:
Of course, I have a dozen of the C5 clusters in stock that I'm selling for only $75-100...but again, I had no clue how to get them working in the car...


Just checking... Do you still have the C5 clusters, and if so what do you get for the $$? (bezel / surround with it?) The first attempt at reworking a serial cluster worked in the end, but was a nightmare of programming. I'd still like to try it with a Corvette cluster one of these days, at least I learned a few things from doing the Ford one.
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pacethis
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Report this Post12-04-2007 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Riceburner98:


Just checking... Do you still have the C5 clusters, and if so what do you get for the $$? (bezel / surround with it?) The first attempt at reworking a serial cluster worked in the end, but was a nightmare of programming. I'd still like to try it with a Corvette cluster one of these days, at least I learned a few things from doing the Ford one.


No, I don't have any complete clusters, though I do have one without the front plastic trims...$49 shipped and it's yours...
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pacethis
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Report this Post12-04-2007 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post

pacethis

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quote
Originally posted by kawana:

wowzers! That looks perfect! I think that is the dash im gunna do in mine. Great job.


Be warned...while I have enjoyed doing this interior; I have extensive skills in reworking materials such as plastic and fiberglass. This is not the job for the beginner or project-averse. I have well over 100 hours in the conversion of the interior so far...probably over 150 before it's completion. Just the heater/ac ducting took about 10 hours to finalize in it's various stages...
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Report this Post12-04-2007 11:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
Sounds good... At least that way if it doesn't work out I'm only out $49. I can make a new front on the CNC... Maybe carbon fiber? Do you Paypal?
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Report this Post12-05-2007 08:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Riceburner98:

Sounds good... At least that way if it doesn't work out I'm only out $49. I can make a new front on the CNC... Maybe carbon fiber? Do you Paypal?


email/paypal is meeksj at charter dot net

Just to be clear, it's the gauges w/o ANY front trims. They are fully functional though, and good for testing.
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Report this Post12-05-2007 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
Should be useful either way. Do they have the "back" plastic; like it's a "cluster", and not seperate gauge parts, right? Do they still have the lower display thing? Basically like this one? -->


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pacethis
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Report this Post12-05-2007 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
Looks just like that one...in fact, I think that's one of my photos, judging by the blue paper background.

The backing is on the cluster, as is the blacklight control module. IPC readout is still in the cluster, etc.

Josh
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Report this Post12-05-2007 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
Awesome, will send Paypal when I get home. You must be the guy on eBay selling the clusters I take it? That was a picture from one of the eBay auctions.. If I can get a sheet of CF big enough to cover the cluster, I can do a cutout like the stock one that will cover the gauges, then do a plexi. one in a similar shape.. Won't be 3-dimensional like the OEM kinds, but I think that'd make it easier to fit into a Fiero anyway... Fun...
Edit! Gonna have to wait 'till Saturday to clear a mess up with the bank before I can Paypal. Apparently a bunch of payments hit at the same time which drained the checking account, then I had a bunch of small charges (like $5 for lunch each day..) which since I didn't know I was empty, they charged $33 apeice for!!! I got over $200 in fees in one day! I'm done with that bank. 2nd time this has happened in a year. No notice or anything, if I hadn't checked tonight I bet it would have been over $600 in fees before they sent the notices by snail-mail.

[This message has been edited by Riceburner98 (edited 12-05-2007).]

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pacethis
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Report this Post12-06-2007 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Riceburner98:

Awesome, will send Paypal when I get home. You must be the guy on eBay selling the clusters I take it? That was a picture from one of the eBay auctions.. If I can get a sheet of CF big enough to cover the cluster, I can do a cutout like the stock one that will cover the gauges, then do a plexi. one in a similar shape.. Won't be 3-dimensional like the OEM kinds, but I think that'd make it easier to fit into a Fiero anyway... Fun...
Edit! Gonna have to wait 'till Saturday to clear a mess up with the bank before I can Paypal. Apparently a bunch of payments hit at the same time which drained the checking account, then I had a bunch of small charges (like $5 for lunch each day..) which since I didn't know I was empty, they charged $33 apeice for!!! I got over $200 in fees in one day! I'm done with that bank. 2nd time this has happened in a year. No notice or anything, if I hadn't checked tonight I bet it would have been over $600 in fees before they sent the notices by snail-mail.



No sweat, been there-done that. Overdraft fees are excessive...

Yes, I've been selling them on eBay (free shipping for you vs. eBay price as well). I had a ton of these, though most are now gone, only 3-4 remain...certainly enough to hold one for you though Just make the payment when you're ready and I'll have it shipped!
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Report this Post12-06-2007 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
Done! Got it taken care of sooner than I thought... Out of curiosity, what's happened to all the top plastic parts? Are Corvette's being upgraded with other clusters leaving these parts behind? Maybe the Z06 ones? I like how these have a non-linear sweep on the speedo so the spaces get smaller towards the 200 mark. The Focus one I did used an aftermarket overlay to get 220mph, but since it was linear the spaces between all the speeds were really small, so it's hard to tell if you're doing 25 or 30.. More useful to know if you're doing 63 or 65mph rather than 197 or 199mph..
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Report this Post12-06-2007 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AmidaSend a Private Message to AmidaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Riceburner98:

Should be useful either way. Do they have the "back" plastic; like it's a "cluster", and not seperate gauge parts, right? Do they still have the lower display thing? Basically like this one? -->




Bob, that cluster looks like it could fit in my new Fi360 dash. It'll be interesting to see if you could make it work in the Fiero.

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Report this Post12-06-2007 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierov8Click Here to visit fierov8's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierov8Direct Link to This Post
Are you selling your project???

http://tinyurl.com/2p2ffq

I'd doubt that there are two of these being built with exactly the same dash


-jeff d
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pacethis
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Report this Post12-06-2007 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
Yes, that's me. I will be selling it to pay off some hospital debts from my daughter's birth. The auction out there is to determine if there's interest in it before it's painted. Once painted, it'll probably go up to ~10k, and remain for sale until I get that price. If no one wants to pay what I have in it, then I'll keep it and find another way to take care of the bills.

The amount of time I've put into this car over the last year is staggering, and it's a much nicer car for the time spent. It's already the nicest Fiero I've ever owned, even with need of paint. And I have owned some very nice Fieros...including a Northstar 86 GT.
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Report this Post12-06-2007 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierov8Click Here to visit fierov8's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierov8Direct Link to This Post
Good luck with the sale -- has to be a tough decision to sell the toys, but ya have to do what it takes to care for the fambly.....

I'd be interested, but I already have one Fiero Been checking out your thread here because I want to do the dash upgrade on my car (see http://orphancars.com/fiero.html ) . Car is done and has a PISA dash in it already -- think the C5 dash would look a little more production like -- that is, until I replace the factory gauge pod with aluminum sheet and mount my VDO's

One question -- that center section on the dash of the Vettes -- looks like there are several variations out there -- what do I need to look for if I want the three stacked openings like yours has?? I'll also look locally, but know offhand of anyone that is selling a dash?

Last question -- if I was to go shopping locally -- can you do a quick bill of materials list of what parts I need from the Vette?


thx!

-jeff d
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Report this Post12-06-2007 04:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
Yes, sometimes difficult, but family is always first. I already sold my Corvette convertible earlier this year to pay the first bills...I can't wait until they're done...

Parts list is above...page 3....
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Report this Post12-06-2007 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post

pacethis

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quote
Originally posted by fierov8:

Good luck with the sale -- has to be a tough decision to sell the toys, but ya have to do what it takes to care for the fambly.....

I'd be interested, but I already have one Fiero Been checking out your thread here because I want to do the dash upgrade on my car (see http://orphancars.com/fiero.html ) . Car is done and has a PISA dash in it already -- think the C5 dash would look a little more production like -- that is, until I replace the factory gauge pod with aluminum sheet and mount my VDO's

One question -- that center section on the dash of the Vettes -- looks like there are several variations out there -- what do I need to look for if I want the three stacked openings like yours has?? I'll also look locally, but know offhand of anyone that is selling a dash?

Last question -- if I was to go shopping locally -- can you do a quick bill of materials list of what parts I need from the Vette?


thx!

-jeff d


All the forward consoles are the same from the factory. 1 opening 1.5DIN for original radio. 1 opening 1.25 (approx) DIN for original climate controls, with an covered ashtray door beneath it. I removed the hingeable door and gutted the ashtray location to custom mount my AC controls, and put the radio in the one above it. The top section is currently being used for 3 switches, but I'm unhappy with the look and will probably put in a metal plate with the Fiero logo or script decal on it. If someone wanted to make something cool like a laser cutout FIERO with backlighting, I'd be in...but don't have the materials/tools to do this.

You'll also want misc inserts like the one b/t the 2 console pieces...it's normally the traction control and/or suspension control location, but you can wire up the switches to whatever you need...
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Report this Post12-06-2007 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierov8Click Here to visit fierov8's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierov8Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pacethis:

Parts list is above...page 3....


So it is, so it is :-/


thx!

-jeff "reading IS fundamental!" d

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Report this Post12-08-2007 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for project34Send a Private Message to project34Direct Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by pacethis:

W-o-w!

pacethis, I'm sorry to hear you'll need to sell your project car, but I must compliment you on that Corvette dash you put into your Fiero! That did wonders to help update and radically transform the character of the interior of the Fiero --- all for the better!
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Riceburner98
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Report this Post12-11-2007 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Direct Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Amida:

Bob, that cluster looks like it could fit in my new Fi360 dash. It'll be interesting to see if you could make it work in the Fiero.


I got the cluster today, thanks pacethis! Amida - it turns out that the cluster is not at all "flat" like the picture seems, all the gauges are mounted at angles and at different heights in the cluster, so it would be tough to create a non-Vette faceplate for this guy. Also, they're using (in my opinion) ancient technology - Front-lighting the cluster, like the old 4 cylinder Fiero gauges! I'm sure they have a fun way of doing it with either a flourescent light or a blacklight or something, but it's all front-lit, behind the gauge graphics is solid black plastic, there's no way to back-light them. Very odd. Even my el-cheapo Scion and Kias use some decent LED backlighting these days.
--> Pacethis - do you know what they have for a "front-light" setup in the rest of the plastic? Is it a blacklight that makes the white glow, or is it just a flourescent light? The big honkin' inverter on the back looks like a beefed-up CCF light driver.. I always just thought it was there to power the flourescent text display at the bottom of the cluster. The gauges look real cool, but not sure if I'm going to spend much energy getting into them since I probably won't use them in my Fiero and the front-lighting just kind of kills it for me.. That and there's a custom AC-Delco chip driving the vaccum flourescent text display, so that pretty much rules out finding any kind of chipspec for it and getting that working. I'd have to replace it with an LED display.. Definitely the strangest internals of any instrument cluster I've ever seen!
(Edit - found the front-lights on Vetteessentials (seen on the left side of the picture, look like blacklight tubes)... Interesting!) I've got a blacklight around here somewhere, gotta see what it looks like..
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


WOW. I take that back about the "ancient" front-lighting... Hooked up a blacklight in front of the thing and it's really cool. Everything just glows really bright. The only downside is any dust on the thing also lights up like a Christmas tree.

[This message has been edited by Riceburner98 (edited 12-11-2007).]

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pacethis
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Report this Post12-14-2007 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
Yes, it's 2 blacklight tubes, controlled by the box on the back of the cluster. While it may not be current design protocol, the front lighting is very nice with the blacklights. Keep in mind these were released in 1997, with designs necessitating back to 94-95. Not sure how the new C6 ones work, haven't played much with them, maybe they've updated something...

I used to sell the inner bezels, but I've recently had a sale on them and cleared my inventory of them (about 15-20) last month. I've been concentrating more on BMW E38's for the last few months as Corvette prices are up on salvage...

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1986 Fiero GT
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Report this Post01-25-2008 05:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1986 Fiero GTSend a Private Message to 1986 Fiero GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

I didn't even see a tach signal.





Oh, and that schematic is for the '97-'98 gauges...the one for '99+ has a slightly different term for the Tach signal.



See? There's also other slight differences in the gauges for the different years. As is turns out, the Speedo and Tach can both be ran from the Fiero, as the VSS signal interpreted by the C5 gauges is in fact 4,000PPM, the very same as in the Fiero. I still need to do Tach research, but as far as I'm know, that should also work in the Fiero.
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pacethis
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Report this Post01-25-2008 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pacethisSend a Private Message to pacethisDirect Link to This Post
The 97/98 guages are easily identified, and some were in 99 models as well. The newer clusters are all HUD-ready, with a white receptacle top dead center to plug in a projector. So if you need to focus on one or the other, that's how you can tell them apart.
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War Hammer
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Report this Post02-02-2008 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for War HammerSend a Private Message to War HammerDirect Link to This Post
Hi All,

I just bought this car from Pacethis. Anyone have any idea about getting the Corvette gauges to work in the Fiero?

Thanks,
Paul
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