Not trying to scare anyone, but I wanted to let you know of a potentialy dangerious situation. If you already know about this please ignore.


I was driving home from work this morning when I noticed the car was unstable in one of the high speed turns. I thought it was wind blowing the car side to side. The motion seemed too uniform (back and forth) and got so bad that the car took up 1 1/2 lanes of the road in the turn. Needless to say I thought I had broken something in the suspension.
I put the car on the lift and pushed and pulled on the wheels to check for loose components. Guess what. The PS rear ball joint (replaced 20,000 miles ago) had come loose AT THE BOLTS. My wheel was moving nearly 1/2" at the tire tread. I remeber paying special attention to the torque when I installed them and was concerned because the originals had expanding rivets.

So the WARNING is this:

If you have this type of rear ball joint, check the bolts. Jacking the rear wheels off the ground and tring to move them inboard and outboard fromt the car center is a good way to check. It may be a good idea to use anti-vibration nuts or double nut it. If you remove the nuts, verify the alignment.

(in my best radio voice).... This has been a public service anouncement.


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Paul

Pontiac prestiege.... Pontiac performance...... Pontiac POWER!
For a full history of the Fiero SS: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789315

[This message has been edited by R Runner (edited 12-28-2006).]

I second this advice. I had it happen as well, and I'm now using a lot of heavy duty thread locker and that did the trick (and a locknut washer).

[This message has been edited by Scythe (edited 12-28-2006).]

I know the area and part but, you got a picture of this?

i was under the impression that after bolted in place, you had to tack weld the bolt head and nut. is that not how to do it?

Well, the thing is not many people tackweld it because the instructions say you don' t have to. It comes with locknut washer's however

quote Originally posted by shawnkfl: i was under the impression that after bolted in place, you had to tack weld the bolt head and nut. is that not how to do it?

That's one way to do it, but I think I'm just going to use Loctite red.

I used the red thread locker and that helps a lot.

If you have the welder out use it to tack the ball joint to the CA dont weld the nuts on.

This warning is even more relevant if you are using a rear sway bar as it will transfer more energy through those components.

You are correct. The swaybar could be transfering some load. I am running a pretty stiff rear bar (317 lb at 5 deg. twist)

I may tack weld it, but I wanted to avoid that for future removal if at all possible. Below is a picture of what I did. The silver nuts have the nylon rings in them for vibration. Then I put the old nut on top of it. Again, I may not be done. It was a bad feeling and I play with my car pretty hard.

I can see why they came loose. It does not appear to me that your original nuts are a locking type of nut. I would not simply trust a lock washer to hold this item together. Use some red loctite and locking nuts. The nylon lock nuts are probably ok, but I would have bought some all steel ones.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: I can see why they came loose. It does not appear to me that your original nuts are a locking type of nut. I would not simply trust a lock washer to hold this item together. Use some red loctite and locking nuts. The nylon lock nuts are probably ok, but I would have bought some all steel ones.

The original ones did have lock washers. I followed the manufacturers directions to the "T". The DS was fine. The lock washers were holding. The picture above shows the "after" situation. The silver nuts shown are steel, but they also have a nylon locking ring for vibration. The black nut was the original nut that I added to help lock the silver nut on that much better. I am still considering a tack weld. I would feel better if the ball joint didn't have so much slop in the A-arm hole. Welding would fix that.

Tomorrow moring I'll finish the fix and align the car.

quote Originally posted by R Runner:

This picture shows the cause of your balljoint comming loose.

It is installed incorrectly. All the strain and forces are being transmitted through the 3 bolts, instead of from the balljoint directly to the control arm.

The rear balljoint is installed from the bottom of the control arm, and the support plate is installed on the top.

You will have to remove the balljoint and reinstall it the proper way, better check the other side too. Once that is done you shouldn't have any problems with it comming loose because the forces will be transmitted through the 2 parts properly.

blackie2m6,

I think your observation is correct. I do remember when I did mine this past winter. I had to grind the hole in the LCA so the balljoint crown would fit into the hole putting flange on the bottom side of the LCA. Is this correct?

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

Yeah, your balljoint is installed wrong. The crown portion (with the metal rod that goes into the base of the knuckle) of the balljoint goes through the larger hole in the control arm. Basically, install the balljoint through the bottom of the control arm as opposed to it sitting on top of the control arm.

That could be a huge safety issue if it's not installed through that hole do to the pressure on the balljoint. So fix how you have the balljoint installed, add the lock washers, and add some threadlocker and you'll be good to go.

[This message has been edited by Scythe (edited 12-29-2006).]

Wow Paul... there are some pretty sharp people on this board, huh?

Race, I had no idea about the anti-sway bar transfering load into the ball joint. It makes sense, just never thought of it.

If you previous posters checked back on this thread on noticed your ratings go up one... that was me.

I really apprecitate the way you (y'all) spotted a problem, offered a solution, and come across not being condescending.

Too much bickering lately, so Happy New Year, and enjoy the green. ( <--- not fishing for ratings, just need a way to feel good at work )
(just checked back, and it did not help Scythe, Blackie, or Ohio get their bar... maybe next one guys!)

[This message has been edited by blakeinspace (edited 12-29-2006).]

Thanks everyone for the help. I feel really stupid. My other GT was the same way and I thought I had in stalled them correctly.

I tack welded them into place today and did a full re-alignment. But now I feel stupid for doing 8 hours worth of work that I will have to tear apart and redo.

Anyway, still a good idea to check the bolts.

Don't feel bad. I have had members here correct mistakes that I had made on my rear sway bar installation. Without Manic Mechanic's advice I could have had a serious problem down the road. That is the great part about this forum.

[This message has been edited by RACE (edited 12-30-2006).]

quote Originally posted by RACE: Don't feel bad. I have had members here correct mistakes that I had made on my rear sway bar installation. Without Manic Mechanic's advice I could have had a serious problem down the road. That is the great part about this forum.

Thanks. I guess everyone makes mistakes.

Paul

Did you get the BJ switched around?

Problem solved.



Thanks for the help everyone.

that looks better. Did you have to clean up the hole in the LCA first?

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

Thanks for the good info. I need to check mine to see what else the previous owner did. I'll check this tomorrow!

quote Originally posted by ohio86se: that looks better. Did you have to clean up the hole in the LCA first?

No. It had plenty of clearance. I wonder why yours was so tight?

Im not sure why mine so tight. I remember that it seemed like the outside of the ball joint casing was too big. I only had to grind a very small mount to get it to fit though.

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

you shouldn't have any issues now. good job! thankfully, this was solved before any serious problems or accidents. chalk one up for the great people on this forum! show this place a single bolt and half of them can tell you where it goes!! the other half can tell you if it came from a fiero!!!

quote Originally posted by shawnkfl: you shouldn't have any issues now. good job! thankfully, this was solved before any serious problems or accidents. chalk one up for the great people on this forum! show this place a single bolt and half of them can tell you where it goes!! the other half can tell you if it came from a fiero!!!

Yea. And the best part is that no one made me feel stupid. I really should have cought it a long time ago, but like I said before, we all make mistakes. We have a good group.

At least others out there that may have installed it incorrectly or didn't tighten the bolts / lock tight / double nut / weld / lock nut their ball joints got the word.

Paul