Ok, a couple of you know about the difficulty I have been having with SPEC lately, but I will tell the whole story here so that everyone can read it all.

I broke off an axle in my transmission at the track back in late October. I had a SPEC stage 2 clutch installed at the time, and the grippy clutch, coupled with lots of revs and very large tires caused the axle to snap off. It was not until just before Christmas that I was able to replace the transmission. The transmission in the car was replaced at some point, and was actually one from a FWD application with the Fiero shift cable brackets installed. The SPEC clutch had been installed by Dale Starcher in August of 2004.

During the replacement of the transmission, I removed and inspected the clutch, then with 1.5 years and 15,000 miles on it, and found it to be in EXCELLENT shape.



I have pictures and witnesses that can attest to this. After the car was reassembled with the freshly rebuilt transmission, this one out of an 87 GT, a loud screeching/squealing noise could be heard any time the engine was running. I thought it was the throwout bearing, and since it was the day before Christmas Eve and I was still 400 miles from home, I resolved myself to have the car repaired professionally and return after the new year to pick it up.

Back home, I got a call shortly after Christmas from the transmission shop owner. He told me that it was not the throwout bearing, but the clutch disk that was making the noise. He said that the disk hub was contacting the throwout bearing retainer sleeve when everything was assembled. The sleeve was mushroomed out and blackened, the TO bearing was ruined from the heat, and the clutch disk was grooved where it had contacted the retainer...he recommended replacement of the whole clutch set.


I researched in the archives to find that this clutch disk defect was a well known problem back when the clutch was purchased. The problem is that the hubs were assembled into the disk backwards and protruded on the wrong side. Upon inspection of my clutch and comparison with the clutch pictures in the archives, I could only conclude that my clutch disk was one of those disks assembled backwards. I don't know why it never contacted in my old transmission, but I suspect it was because the transmission was a later model from a FWD application.

I had to wait until the new year for SPEC to open, which meant holding up a bay in the tranny shop for over a week, and sent pictures and called as soon as then opened. I was consoled by a rep, and he viewed the pictures and said it appeared that I was correct. I was told that they would "make things right for me, one way or another" if I purchased a new clutch from them, so I paid in advance to have a new Stage 2 overnighted to the tune of ~$370. They asked that I return the old clutch to them for inspection, and I did so after taking more pictures of the damage, etc. After a while, I had not heard anything, and called back to see what the case was on my refund. The clutch was technically out of warranty, but they said they were going to help me out, so I didn't really worry. I was told that the owner of the company inspected the clutch, and said that it was worn out, and in need of replacement, and that "no failure had occurred". I was further told that I would be given a good-faith discount of 25% on my NEXT ORDER, but it could not be retroactively applied to my previous order made a couple weeks before this discussion. Obviously, I was outraged.

I filed a complaint with the BBB in SPEC's area, and wrote the following...(It is mostly repeats what was written above, feel free to skip it):
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Consumer's Original Complaint :
I ordered a clutch kit for my 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT part number SC882 in July or September 2004 through www.clutchdepot.com, also known as PA Auto Racing. It was used in my car with a transmission that had been adapted from a Beretta. After a year and a half, in December of 2005, I had to replace the transmission with a rebuilt unit (that was meant for a Fiero), for reasons not related to the clutch. Upon installation of the new transmission, a severe squealing noise could be heard any time the engine was running. Although I replaced the transmission myself the first time, I did not have the time or a place to diagnose the noise and took it to Mike's Transmission Service in Freeland, MI. Mike determined the problem was that the hub of the clutch was rubbing the transmission. Upon researching the problem, I came to find that several people with Fieros who purchased SPEC clutches when I did ran into the same problem. It was a known and acknowledged problem that some SPEC clutch disks left the factory with the hub installed backwards. A detailed explanation of the problem can be found here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/066837.html
In the thread is an e-mail from a SPEC employee acknowledging the issue as a known one.
I used my original SPEC clutch for 1.5 years and 15,000 miles, and it did not contact my transmission, most likely because it was adapted from another car. When I installed the correct transmission in the car, the clutch contacted. I had to pay $552 to have the clutch problem diagnosed and the clutch replaced, and $371 for a new clutch from SPEC (includes overnight shipping). That makes nearly $1000 that I had to pay due to a mistake someone at SPEC made.
The clutch was out of warranty when the problem was found, but SPEC said they would look at the old clutch if I sent it in and "Make things right for me".
I sent the clutch in last week, and spoke with Matt at SPEC today. They offered me 25% off on a future order, but will not apply it to the new clutch I just bought. For the record, I can save 10%-15% just by buying from a retailer instead of directly from SPEC, so it is basically a 10% discount.

Consumer's Desired Resolution:
I would like the $371 for the new clutch plus the $12 I paid to ship them the old clutch refunded to my credit card. The $552 I had to pay to have the clutch diagnosed and replaced would be nice, but I doubt they would give it to me.
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Shortly thereafter, I received a response from SPEC:
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In this case the customer claims having used the clutch for a year and a half without any issues. That is believable. Upon receipt of his old clutch, the manufacturing date is at least 3 years ago.
He then made changes to his car (replaced transmission) and a noise resulted immediately after the change in transmission. If this noise was due to a hub problem as asserted in Mr Korey's statement, then the clutch would not have worked originally.
Upon diagnosis of his unit, it is evident that, after at least 15,000 miles and more likely as many as 30,000 miles, the clutch is worn and needed to be replaced. We have the best warranty in the industry, and the only warranty for a racing clutch, but a 3 year old clutch that shows no sign of failure and simply needs to be replaced is not covered under warranty. Pictures and test results are available to verify our findings that there was no failure.
We deal with unreasonable expectations very generously. We offered Mr. Korey a discount on a new clutch, but his intentions are to get new product free of charge. I call that warranty theft and do not believe my company should suffer because Mr. Korey doesn't want to have to pay for products he uses to its life extent. We will stand by our offer for a product discount on his next purchase as goodwill , but will not refund any money.
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I was further outraged by how this response implied that I was lying and trying to cheat the company. I found the veiled threats to be especially amazing. I filed this response and listed the complaint as not resolved:
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Despite what was implied in your response, I can prove that the clutch was purchased and installed about 1.5 years ago. Also, I have records that prove that the mileage was less then 20,000, close to 15,000. I have not even owned this car for 30,000 miles. In addition, I have pictures that show that my clutch had plenty of life left and did not need replaced. If it was worn out, I would not have reinstalled it in the car when I replaced the transmission. Keep in mind that I had to pay $552 to have the old clutch removed and replaced after having just done the job myself, (I have receipts to prove this charge, as well as pictures proving that I had installed the transmission in a friend's garage with the old clutch before the service was performed). If I had planned ''Warranty theft'' as claimed in your response, I would have looked for clutch replacement when I changed the transmission, instead of reassembling everything, taking it to a professional, and then paying $552. Also, I can prove that the transmission the clutch was used with, before any problems were noticed, was not the original transmission for the car and was different from the new transmission which was recently installed, the correct transmission for the car. Finally, professional which I had remove and replace the clutch knows that the squealing noise was caused by contact between the hub and the throw out bearing retainer on the new transmission. I have pictures which verify damage to the transmission and the clutch disk as well as several witnesses to said damage. Finally, the professional installed told me that the car was correctly assembled when I did it the first time, and the only thing he changed was the clutch kit. Upon installation of the new SPEC clutch, which did not have a protruding hub as on the old clutch, the noise went away and normal operation returned.
Also, I would like to know when my old, supposedly worn clutch is going to be returned to me. Since I paid for it and never received a refund, it is still mine despite being sent in for your inspection. I assumed it was going to be sent back but I have not received it.
I do not accept your response or your explanation. I will not consider this matter resolved until I receive the refund I deserve for your faulty product. I probably would have dropped the matter if you had been willing to apply the 25% discount to the replacement clutch I purchased, as opposed to a future purchase; but your inexplicable refusal to apply said discount to the purchase I had already made prompted this complaint. I stand by my earlier request-the full charge for the new clutch and shipping returned to my credit card, plus the shipping charge to send them my old clutch, as well as the return of my old clutch.
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As you can see, I was pretty angry. I also decided that I wanted my old clutch back since they were making false claims about it and it was still my property since they refused to refund it. I received no further correspondence from the BBB and the complaint was closed, unresolved, by the BBB on the 28th of February.

I called the company 3 weeks ago to ask when my clutch was going to be returned, and was told it was going to be sent out. I waited until today, with no clutch, and decided to call back. I was told that the owner was upset at having to deal with the BBB and fill out a bunch of paper work, and as such, was no longer willing to send me my old clutch back. I offered to pay for shipping, if that was the issue, and was told that the owner would not return the clutch until I "called off" the BBB.

Now, as far as I am concerned, they have stolen my property. I sent it to them to be inspected, and they did so, and now they are unwilling to return it. I still own it, as they never refunded it, etc, so I don't see what legal ground they have to stand on to keep my clutch.

At this point, I am not really sure what to do. Should I call the Police in Alabama? I am already going to call the BBB and ask advice. I also still have the option of charging back my credit card for the new clutch, which I purchased and am currently using. Has anyone ever gone through something like this?

The thing that bothers me the most is how SPEC has made me feel. I loved that clutch and love my new one, and I honestly feel SPEC makes the best clutches available for the Fiero. I have recommended them to countless people, Fiero owners and others alike, but now I am not so sure. I don't know what to tell people about SPEC...they make a great product, when it is assembled correctly, but they seem to suck pretty hard at customer service.

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More info at: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/043357.html

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 03-06-2006).]

I would just file a claim in small claims court. It will only cost about $40 and you can sue for up to $3500 (numbers vary by area.) You can cite the communications with the BBB as proof that you were attempting to resolve the issue, and as a result of your presual of that the owner is now refusing to return your property and treating you unfairly because you contacted the BBB. I would also inform the BBB that he is discriminating against you for contacting them, as thier place is to settle this kind of dispute and it is very unfair for him to treat you badly because you caused him "paperwork"

I would sue for the cost of the replacement, the extra labor, and the time you spent trying to collect. I too had one of those disks that was manufactured improperly, it is a known issue with SPEC, all I had to do was call, give them the information, and send some pics and they sent me out a new one right away. They were manufactured incorrectly, and they are aware of it. You might only collect on the cost of the disk they reuse to return and court costs, but there is a possiblilty you might get it all. Also if nothing else a summons usualy gets peoples attention and they realize you are serious, and might settle out of court.

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Boost is like Venereal Disease, one night of passion can result in weeks of pain (and work.)
Its not always about who gets to the finish line first, its who looks good when they get there. 'Course it doesnt hurt to have both.
http:\\www.myspace.com\keeptherubbersidedown

you've been unrealistic since the begining of this. i read the whole deal about the transmission and how you flipped out because it was a couple days late. although the clutch is assembled wrong, it is still 3 years old. maybe you should blame the person who installed it originally and didn't pick up on the fact that it wasn't the same as the one removed. or maybe sue GM for making two different transmissions that aren't the same. or go back and sue the guy you bought the car from for false advertising. or just man up, admit that the clutch is used, old and no company would warranty it, and buy a new one. a 25% discount for being a whiner sounds pretty good to me.

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: Is this the clutch i sent you for free because you were in a bind? Maybe i should call spec and infor them of your fraud and maybe they'll just make you pay the other guy direct and then the universe will be in balance. That's the last time i help out anyone in the fiero comunity.

No I still have that one, I ordered another one through a local speed shop because I realized it just was not going to happen safely, the one I got new was also just like this . I will gladly post a picture of the one you sent me on a current newspaper if you do not believe me. Im still toying with the idea of re working it, I think the best bet would be to dissassemble it and flip the hub over and reassemble it, but I dont know what kind of fasteners to use yet.

Why the heck is everyone so snappy on this forum lately? Everyone would rather jump down someones throat then ask basic questions before flying off the handle.

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: you've been unrealistic since the begining of this. i read the whole deal about the transmission and how you flipped out because it was a couple days late. although the clutch is assembled wrong, it is still 3 years old. maybe you should blame the person who installed it originally and didn't pick up on the fact that it wasn't the same as the one removed. or maybe sue GM for making two different transmissions that aren't the same. or go back and sue the guy you bought the car from for false advertising. or just man up, admit that the clutch is used, old and no company would warranty it, and buy a new one. a 25% discount for being a whiner sounds pretty good to me.

Go back and read it again. I don't think he's being the slightest bit unrealistic. In both cases, the vendors admitted that it was their problem and then renegged on the deal when it came down to actually forking over some green.

Farg 'em.

So you guys don't think a 25% discount on a new part for whining about a 3 year old used part, that is a wear item, is a good deal?

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: So you guys don't think a 25% discount on a new part for whining about a 3 year old used part, that is a wear item, is a good deal?

You mean a 25% discount on a part that wasn't even halfway worn out, but was clearly unuseable for its intended application because it was assembled incorrectly? I think 50% would have been reasonable, at the minimum. And that piddly 25% was not applied retroactively to the clutch that he had to purchase to replace the defective one. It was only good for the next purchase.
Such a deal. Bastages.

According to the original post, it was 1.5 years, BTW. I don't think a Spec clutch for a Fiero even existed much further back than that. That this was a relatively new product probably has a lot to do with it being assembled ass-backwards.
I have to wonder why you're being so hard-assed about this. Perhaps if you'd ever been bent over by a kwrappy vendor, you'd have a different outlook. If you haven't, you're quite fortunate.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Praise the Lowered!
Read Nealz Nuze!

Actually I was the first one with this problem and warned many people only recently getting them to listen. Usually I just got the "you must be a retard" routine and they went and learned the hard way. In his post spec said the build date was over 3 years. It is still a wear item, and it was used. mine was brand new and spec gave me a new one without any issues. They are a good company and don't need to be crapped on by this forum. The bad mouthing stores that provide for our cars is getting pretty old. You guys can keep it up though, pretty soon we won't have any, then you'll really have something to ***** about.

joshua_riedl........... dude do you work for SPEC?

Yes it is a wear item. Yeah, if this thing was worn out and he had gotten a useful service life out of it and then he claimed defect, could see your point.
The fact is, this clutch still showed as much meat on it as an autozone special clutch has NEW! How do I know? Because I saw it! I saw it in my garage and at Mike's Transmission Shop! The pictures don't really do it justice, if there was a pic from the side you would be able to see that the clutch has all its thickness, and had not even fully seated yet. Look at the flywheel, and the rest of the clutch pics. See the lack of dust? We didn't clean anything off, that's how it came out of the damned car. It really had no use.

By freak coincidence of the situation, he had one of the 89+ J/L Getrags and the input sleeve was shorter. This thing was by no means used up.

If you put a SPEC in and drove around the block and then began hearing the squealing; your clutch would technically be used, would you then accept no for an answer for replacement? If a company built a part and you got some use out of it and then it ****ed your **** up and cost you more to fix the damage than the original part cost, would you be upset?
How about if the limit of the warranty was just replacement of the defective item, which was confirmed defective, and they still didn't replace it, then would you be upset?
If you were counting on a company's product for a 400 mile interstate drive, and their product let you down, would you be upset?
If you had to pay to have a job done twice, would you be upset?

A defective part that has over 75% life left on it should be a no-brainer. If you sell a bunch of defective parts, you should try like hell to make it work. GM doesn't refuse to recall some cars with bad hub assemblies because they were "used successfully for 15000 miles"

Fiero owners generally are too bitchy about getting perfect parts for no money, but sending a non-defective disk out when you can see the damage it did doesn't seem like too terribly much to ask.

Note to self. Never by anything with SPEC written on it.

I all ever read about is problems with spec stuff. Seems like the quaility control sucks. just my opinion based on al the horror stories I read on here and yes I know plenty of people are happy with SPEC clutches but there are enought that are not to make me steer clear of them.

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Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

I never said he shouldn't be upset. He can be upset until the end of time. The fact is, it is a used part, a wear item and 3 years old. It's hard to get that kind of warranty on a rebuilt engine. Even then it's pro-rated, so 25% is still a kickin deal. It's time to be a little more realistic.

I still think they make great clutches, and am very happy with the new one I installed, just about as happy as I was with the one I had before.

86GT3.4DOHC, you hit the nail on the head. I would let it drop, but I can't after all the crap they dragged me through.

Joshua, I have never seen someone cling to ignorance with such ferocity.

This is my only car, and I depend on it. When it goes out, I depend on parts manufacturers to help me get it back up and running. All I have been after, in both the transmission rebuilder, and SPEC, is that promises be kept. Do you think I should have just thrown my hands up and said ohh well, after a manufacturing defect caused me $923 in extra cost?

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: joshua_riedl........... dude do you work for SPEC?

I thought about asking that same question, but I figured that he's just never been seriously screwed by a vendor.
Vendors never mess up. Right?

No, I don't work for spec. Yes I've had bad dealings with a vendor. Yes, I have owned crappy vehicles that i depended on to get me to work. You guys argue and call names and make excuses. What if it was a 5 year old part? would it then be ok for spec to refuse the warranty? I never even looked. what is spec's warranty? It must be less than 3 years or they would have given you a refund. So keep calling names. You know you are wrong so that's all you have. Then go return tires that are 6 years old but went flat after 10,000 miles.

OK, I'm not involved and have never dealt with Spec, but you have to look at it from their side. Someone bought a clutch from your company and used it for 15K miles without problems, then that person replaced the transmission and toasted the clutch. What would you think?
The tricky part is that it was installed and working fine with previous transmission, althought it wasn't a Fiero transmission. It's not their fault (Spec) that the wrong transmission was in your Fiero to begin with. If the previous owner would have called Spec and told them the clutch kit they got was designed wrong for the Fiero, they wouldn't have had a problem getting it returned for a new one. But obviously, the correctly designed clutch that works in the Fiero transmission wouldn't have worked in this other FWD transmission, so obviously, everything seemed fine.
I'm not saying you don't have a right to be mad. Them saying they would help you out, then not doing anything is definately something to be mad about. And just the situation as a whole. This is just a very strange situation you're in.

Just some thoughts, probably not very helpful.

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quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: No, I don't work for spec. Yes I've had bad dealings with a vendor. Yes, I have owned crappy vehicles that i depended on to get me to work. You guys argue and call names and make excuses. What if it was a 5 year old part? would it then be ok for spec to refuse the warranty? I never even looked. what is spec's warranty? It must be less than 3 years or they would have given you a refund. So keep calling names. You know you are wrong so that's all you have. Then go return tires that are 6 years old but went flat after 10,000 miles.

Joshua...I'm just throwing this out there, but umm....who called you a name? I see you referred to as joshua_riedl and Joshua...what exactly are you whining about?

And by the way, the only reason I am going after them at all is because they said they were going to make things right for me. I would have dropped it after they gave me a 25% discount, but they would not apply it to the clutch I had just ordered. I would have dropped it after the BBB, but now they won't return my property.

The whole point of this post is not just that they have crappy service, but that they have my property and refuse to return it, even though I am willing to pay for shipping. How am I wrong for wanting my property back? I can't wait to hear your answer on this one.

this whole deal sounds horrible, as why I am planning on an auto swap, but at least you were not going through this like me and my friend were about to do with centerforce.
The clutch that my friend bought from centerforce, worked fine for awhile, then we tossed nitrous on his stock V6, and it torched the thing everytime he hit the spray. Its now about 3000 miles later and it seems to have gotten better, but very disapointing.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Adam: OK, I'm not involved and have never dealt with Spec, but you have to look at it from their side. Someone bought a clutch from your company and used it for 15K miles without problems, then that person replaced the transmission and toasted the clutch. What would you think?

It wasn't toasted, it was far from it. It was designed improperly, such that it did not fit in the alloted space on the input shaft between the flywheel face and the input sleeve.

Josh, I am a bit confused about the relevance of the age of the part... are you saying that If this clutch had sat for three years, and never been installed, SPEC would not have any type of obligation to honor the warranty because the part is too OLD? How about if the date of manufacture was three years ago but it had sat on a shelf in SPEC's warehouse for the first 2.5 years.... would it still be too old?

Now that the quality issues are worked out of the SPEC, I am actually intending to buy one for my car. I am not trying to be "hating on" SPEC, but I know what they have done is not how I would have handled the situation if it were MY company. I wouldn't say hey that's too bad clutch one we sold you was not useable, here buy clutch two for full price of a few hundred bucks, and by the way, we'll knock off a few dollars on clutch three when you need it.

If a part came from my company, my manufacturing facility, and it didn't fit, I would be EMBARRASED. I would personally make damn sure that every defective part that came out on my watch was taken out of the customers hands and replaced. To their credit it seems like they have done that for most every customer up til now.

Just went here...
http://www.specclutch.com/
Then found the link "Send Us An Email".

quote I was seriously thinking about buying one of your products. Until I read this... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/057878.html This is a well known issue with your product. The only reason it worked at all was because the sleeve on the 1st tranny was shorter than spec. You're getting way more bad press than a freakin' credit will cost you. Do the right thing.

We'll see.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-03-2006).]

I don't think I'm going to buy their clutch now...

I was going to place an order after Spring Break (3 weeks). Ugg, we'll see what WCF has to offer.

Hmm... I was gonna get a SPEC for my upcoming project in a few months. I guess maybe not.

What was the original warranty on this clutch? You are saying that it did work for 15,000 miles. Did you actually measure it when you first got it and when you returned it, if so what was the wear on it? It looks like a performance clutch and those have a shorter life span than a regular clutch disk, especially if you are beating on it.
Let's put things in perspective here. You ran this clutch for 1.5 years and even abused it, so much that you broke an axle. Now you wanted to use it in another tranny, but finally figured out that it would not work, so now you want your money back. Isn't that like buying a pair of socks, using them all Summer, and then returning them to the store for your money back? I'm surprised they even offered you anything back. I think you got your moneys worth out of that clutch, but now that it won't work with a different tranny you don't want the expense of buying another one.
I can see asking for a refund if the clutch had been bad right from the beginning. Maybe even getting the right one sent to you if this had been the case. The only problem is that you got 1.5 years of use out of yours and who knows how it was treated for that time. Now you are trying to blackmail them into giving you a refund by filing with the BBB and telling everyone how bad they are. I wouldn't expect them to give you anything now because of this.
Your clutch's warranty had expired from what they tell you and just by looking at a clutch you can tell if it is worn out. Yours seems to be from one of the pictures you posted. It looks like it was starting to wear on the rivets. That to me is a sign of a worn out clutch. It seems to me that you never actually measured it's thickness when you first got it and when you sent it back, but that doesn't really matter. Your time to resolve any issues you might have had with this clutch had expired some time ago. I know you don't want to hear that, but that is what they are telling you. It is their warranty and their policy. Badmouthing them won't make them change the way they operate or get you a refund. you might as well bang your head against the wall.
Bite the bullet and get another clutch even if it isn't one of theirs.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: What was the original warranty on this clutch? You are saying that it did work for 15,000 miles. Did you actually measure it when you first got it and when you returned it, if so what was the wear on it? It looks like a performance clutch and those have a shorter life span than a regular clutch disk, especially if you are beating on it. Let's put things in perspective here. You ran this clutch for 1.5 years and even abused it, so much that you broke an axle. Now you wanted to use it in another tranny, but finally figured out that it would not work, so now you want your money back. Isn't that like buying a pair of socks, using them all Summer, and then returning them to the store for your money back? I'm surprised they even offered you anything back. I think you got your moneys worth out of that clutch, but now that it won't work with a different tranny you don't want the expense of buying another one. I can see asking for a refund if the clutch had been bad right from the beginning. Maybe even getting the right one sent to you if this had been the case. The only problem is that you got 1.5 years of use out of yours and who knows how it was treated for that time. Now you are trying to blackmail them into giving you a refund by filing with the BBB and telling everyone how bad they are. I wouldn't expect them to give you anything now because of this. Your clutch's warranty had expired from what they tell you and just by looking at a clutch you can tell if it is worn out. Yours seems to be from one of the pictures you posted. It looks like it was starting to wear on the rivets. That to me is a sign of a worn out clutch. It seems to me that you never actually measured it's thickness when you first got it and when you sent it back, but that doesn't really matter. Your time to resolve any issues you might have had with this clutch had expired some time ago. I know you don't want to hear that, but that is what they are telling you. It is their warranty and their policy. Badmouthing them won't make them change the way they operate or get you a refund. you might as well bang your head against the wall. Bite the bullet and get another clutch even if it isn't one of theirs.

He already has a new clutch, he got it from them because they told him they would make it right. There is a known issue with these clutches its documented. After he paid full price for a new clutch he was then told that they would only give him 25% credit for another purchase not the one he just bought. If it wasnt for the documented problem with the hub I would say let it go. If it wasnt for the fact that he had to pay someone to fix a problem not caused by the worn clutch but by a manufacturing issue I would say let it go. He has a SPEC clutch now and is happy with it if you read all of the posts. I think they should just give him the 25% and they should let it go.
I'm posting because I was going to buy one of the stage 3 clutches but now I dont know what to do. I dont want to keep pulling this tranny.

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: No, I don't work for spec. Yes I've had bad dealings with a vendor. Yes, I have owned crappy vehicles that i depended on to get me to work. You guys argue and call names and make excuses. What if it was a 5 year old part? would it then be ok for spec to refuse the warranty? I never even looked. what is spec's warranty? It must be less than 3 years or they would have given you a refund. So keep calling names. You know you are wrong so that's all you have. Then go return tires that are 6 years old but went flat after 10,000 miles.

If those tires seperated and the tread blew off *cough*Firestone*cough* then the situation would be comparable, and im pretty positive that if you could prove a manufacturing defect, they would certainly replace them. Thats why they recalled millions of tires, because they knew they made a mistake. Same thing with the buyback notice for the '02 Ford Focus. I dont have one but they were nice enough to send me one, lol. They are offering a %50 return on original price, which I think it rediculous depreciation, BUT its still a good faith amount applied immediately, not on a potential future purchase. They dont say "well buy a new car, and if you ever but another one, we'll apply the discount"

Im really happy with my Spec clutch, holding tons better than my Center Force dual friction, and under 100 more HP. Id say they have good product in the long run.

It amazes me how many people, not even just on this thread, who would just bend over and let companies have thier way with them. If you're right you better do something about it, because most companies are going to do whatever is cheapest for them.

And that clutch is not worn out, for some reason both the Spec clutches I have seen have that ripple pattern on the FW side where the paint did not cover. There is clearly a good bit of meat left on it, and in fact the full surface area does not appear to have made contact on the FW side. If you would read the article, the reason it was returned was because while it fit the wrong transmission, when he tried to replace it with the original tranny for the car, it would not work. He is not "blackmailing" any one. He did not say "Allright now you're going to give me a refund or im going to call the BBB, or post on PFF" He contacted the BBB because that is thier purpose, to regulate and intermediate in commercial conflicts just like this, its thier sole reason for existance. His posting here is his right to relate his experience with the company.

And to dispell your false analogy, this would be paramount to buying a pair of socks from Meijer. You put on the left one. Three months later you try to put one on the right foot and it does not fit, and you spend $500 at the doctor to have him tell you, its not your foot, its the socks. You then purchase $300 worth of new socks from the company with the promise they will take care of you. Well you get the rest of it.

[This message has been edited by 86GT3.4DOHC (edited 03-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Adam: Someone bought a clutch from your company and used it for 15K miles without problems, then that person replaced the transmission and toasted the clutch. What would you think? The tricky part is that it was installed and working fine with previous transmission, althought it wasn't a Fiero transmission. It's not their fault (Spec) that the wrong transmission was in your Fiero to begin with.

I'm all for companies backing up their products and for customers to insist that they back them up. IMHO and in your situation I think you are beating a dead horse. Oh and as you get on with life you'll get your chance to turn in ALOT more warranty claims....

------------------
Tim
Red 88 Formula Auto 2.8 100K+ Miles

The problem with political jokes is...they get elected!

As I said in the post, the clutch was out of warranty, it had a 1 year warranty, which is actually pretty damn good for a wear item.

Here was my motovation:

I knew the clutch was out of warranty, but I saw how helpful SPEC had been to other people with the same problem in the past (all were right after purchase, since all were using a fiero transaxle), so I decided to give them a call and ask about it. I was exceptionally polite, and I went in not expecting ANYTHING because it was out of warranty.

Then the customer service rep spoke with the owner about it, after seeing pictures and researching to find this was a known issue, and told me to go send the old one back in, "we'll make it right for you". Assuming they were going to...ohh, I don't know...make it right for me, I bought a new clutch on the spot for $371 (included overnight shipping, which was like $75)

Further motovation for pursuing them after they pulled the 25% crap is that I could have bought the clutch from a 3rd party, which dropships from SPEC, for 10-15% off and free shipping, (though I am sure I would have to spend some extra for overnight). I bought it from SPEC because I assumed that they were going to...MAKE IT RIGHT FOR ME.

I fully, 100% realize it was out of warranty, and although it was an existing defect in workmanship, I realize they were in no way obligated to do ANYTHING for me. But when they make a promise about helping me, which prompts me to overpay for a replacement clutch, I am not just going to let it go anymore. Keep in mind I am out almost $1000, 2 weeks of use of my car, 3 six hour drives from and to and back from Michigan to get my car because of their manufacturing defect. All I wanted was for the purchase price of the clutch, which was $290 something, to be refunded. Like I said, I even would have settled for 25% off the $290, but they inexplicably insisted on applying it only to future purchases.

I realize I will prolly never get anything out of them for the problems I've had. Once again, the whole point of this post is that they have my property and will not return it because I "caused him paperwork", referring to the owner.

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 03-03-2006).]

Unless you got their promise to "do you right" in writting, you should not expect anything from them. An oral agreement is not worth the paper it was written on. You were out of warranty and out of luck. Right now it's your word against theirs and you have no physical proof about a clutch defect, because you returned the item, so now you have no leverage against them. Sorry to say so.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Unless you got there promise to do you right in writting you should not expect anything from them. An oral agreement is not worth the paper it was written on. ... so now you have noe leverage against them. Sorry to say so.

Not exactly correct.
He has the leverage of a bunch of increasingly gun-shy potential customers.
Regardless of what the company is legally obligated to do, replacing it would be the right thing to do, and would do wonders for their credibility at this point. It was clearly a manufacturing defect. One that they had already acknowledged.
Vendors like Doug Kinney, Rodney, The Fiero Store, Ed Parks/Fiero Factory and others didn't get so well-respected in our community by being hard-assed. They got that way by taking care of their customers, even when they weren't compelled by law to do so.
Hell... even Ford and GM offer "unspoken warranties" when they know they've fscked up.
The company admitted that they had fscked up, and promised to make it good. Then they renegged. Bad form.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-03-2006).]

Bigfieroman

Could you email me or Post a picture of the right and wrong Clutch?

Thanks!
JG

joshua might have had a valid point except for the fact that Spec acknowledged the problem and agreed to help him out. 25% off your NEXT purchase isn't helping. If they'd offered him 25% off the replacement clutch he bought, that would have been helping. Not enough, IMO, but it would have at least lived up to their promist to try to make things right.

Oh, and joshua, 3 years old would be according to the build date. A purchase receipt or installation invoice is a more accurate way to determine the start of warranty. That is what businesses go by - not the parts build date. The warranty doesn't start until the customer buys the part.

everyone can stop talkng to me now. the person who started this thread admitted the part is out of warranty. as i said before, i had this problem over a year ago and i thought spec's customer service was great.

Well now I dont know what to do, I will probably need a clutch soon.
Mines making a noise and as soon as I get it torn down again I will have to pick one.
I dont think its out of the way to ask for something off of the clutch he bought.
Its a known problem and by keeping the clutch they are only making it look bad for them.
I hear good things about the SPEC clutch but if they send me the wrong one and I dont catch it who is going to give me my time back?

Bigfieroman I am sorry for your problems I dont think its out of line for you to ask for something for your trouble. Good luck hope you get your clutch back if nothing else.

This is an e-mail sent by a forum member to SPEC, and their reply regarding the situation. Good to see they are bad mouthing me behind my back...I at least told them I was going to post this message.

Original message:

You know..the business you are losing from treating this customer badly GREATLY exceeds the what he was asking for.
You're blacklisted in the Fiero community.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/057878.html

Their reply:

Thank you for your insight, though you know nothing of the situation other than what you read. If that were the truthful rendition, you would be correct. We would have replaced any defective parts. However, there was much more to his demands and the history of his clutch. I know the full story and can say that SPEC went out of their way to take care of this customer. If you do your research, you will find that we treat our Fiero customers with great customer service and an excellent product. Don't let a greedy customer keep you from making good product decisions for your own car, whether it be paint, a power adder, clutch or any part.

SPEC, Inc Customer Service

The forum member's response:

Dave, I'm a SPEC customer. You make great parts. how do I know? See the attached picture of the brand spankin new SPEC clutch in the attached pic; I'm installing a V8 in my fiero and bought a SPEC stage 3 clutch from you a few months back.

That's how I know that person received a bad clutch; the word was out when I bought mine and I had the vendor specifically check that it wasn't one of the clutches with the hub installed backwards. I can't begin to tell you how many people know about the defective part--it's absolutely common knowledge in the fiero community.

I don't know the person who posted the information in the thread, but I do know SPEC has a reputation that is going downhill in the racing community. Most of us go to SPEC because of the problems we've had with Centerforce.

In a world where I'm used to receiving professionally written responses, referring to another paying customer as greedy is certainly a breath of fresh air.

Edit to add:

For the record, there is nothing else to this story. They are trying to save face. I can prove every fact I have posted, and have several witnesses to various parts of this story.

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 03-03-2006).]

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20060206-2-066837.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20060206-1-046290-7.html

Hey SPEC I know your looking, there two threads I found. I was going to buy a Stage 3 + but think I will have to wait.
Its not all about what happened in here but I am leery of getting the wrong disk and having to pull the tranny. Its a pain in the ass to pull a Fiero tranny especially if you have a V8 installed. You cant just drop the back of the cradle the way you can with a V6.
Please look at this a an opportunity to help out and explain about the problems with the hubs.

Thanks for the help Jake, I was looking at good thread examples (there are several) and got sidetracked.

Spec was very helpful to me when I asked them to replace my spec stage 3. It came with the hub installed backwards, sent them some pictures and a note and they promptly sent me a correct clutch disk free of charge.

Interesting thread--and interesting responses-particularly from SPEC.
As I understand it:
1. We all agree the clutch was out of warranty on the date the axle broke, and on the date you discovered the drive train noise.
2. The clutch was originally purchased/installed in the July/Sept 2004 timeframe by Dale. We'll say Aug 2004 for simplicity.
3. You got use of the clutch for the next 1 year and 4 months, till the axle broke in Dec 2005. 16 months and approx 15,000 miles of basically troublefree service.
4. As recieved new, the clutch was defectively assembled by SPEC for it's stated and intended installation-into a 1988 Fiero.

No problems and the clutch has met it's expectations with very little wear and is in fact still good to go when you have to replace the tranny.

We all agree on the above---Right?

On the surface, it sounds cut and dried that the clutch met or exceeded it's warranty claim--except for one thing. It was a defective clutch--period. It was ONLY by a stroke of luck that you got even one day service out of the clutch--and that stroke of luck was because the "wrong" transmission was used-the fwd tranny. IMO, a defect is a defect. SPEC, knowing now, that the clutch was assembled by SPEC people incorrectly, is still liable for replacement costs. They can only thank their lucky stars that the 1st tranny was a fwd, else they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. And I don't think they do now--maybe.
Scenarios:
1. You buy and recieve the clutch in Aug 2004, with the correct Fiero transmission in it, install it, but for whatever reason, leave it parked for 16 months. You start the car, and the noise begins. Clutch is now out of (time) warranty, with no use gotten from it. Are they (SPEC) free and clear?
2. You buy and recieve the clutch in Aug 2004, but wreck your car the day before you plan to tear down for the install. The clutch sits on a shelf for a year and 4 months in your garage, as you rebuild the body. Install the clutch with the correct Fiero transmission and the noise begins. It's out of warranty (time). Is SPEC free and clear?
3. You buy and recieve the clutch in Aug 2004, install it and thinking the noise is a TOB, you drive it for a week or 2, till one day, the TOB and collar disintegrate from the heat, you can't up shift and someone plows into your rearend at 60 mph, destroying your car, seriously injuring you, and knocking your jelly donut off the center console. SPEC better have GREAT attorneys in this scenario.

Regarding taking it to court. (Where are you Shyster?)
Some will argue the 'real and actual damages incurred' part of it--and they may win. The judge may see it as 'no harm no foul' occurring during the warranty period. Again, that was not a testament to SPEC but just a stroke of luck---debatable at this point if it was good or bad luck for you. Then too, they may even claimthat the warranty was null and void the minute it was installed in a vehicle with a non-Fiero transmission in it. Who knows? For SPEC, they may win this battle based on your having gotten use of the clutch, and judging from your 1st few sentences, I'd say you were quite happy with the "grippy clutch" during this 16 month period. But, also judging from most of the replies I've seen here, and the fact that I too own a manual transmission Fiero, SPEC might want to keep in mind that there is a real possibilty this could be a case of winning a battle but losing the war.

The clutch came from SPEC defective. Ya can't get away from that--and neither can they.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-04-2006).]