The Fiero never came with any version of a dohc engine I don't believe GM offered a dohc engine during the years the Fiero was in production. Yet some people insist that a dohc fits it's personality better than a more muscular pushrod. Please explain why you think this is so.

if i had to guess i would say because the fiero is built for handling and most cars built for handling had nice smooth reving engines. like i said i have no idea just a guess. and did you just happen to look at the calling out dohc owners part 2 thread?

quote Originally posted by Korupt: if i had to guess i would say because the fiero is built for handling and most cars built for handling had nice smooth reving engines. like i said i have no idea just a guess. and did you just happen to look at the calling out dohc owners part 2 thread?

Sure I saw it. However the dohc engine sentiment has been around this forum for a long time so I felt it time to ask the question.

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: The Fiero never came with any version of a dohc engine I don't believe GM offered a dohc engine during the years the Fiero was in production. Yet some people insist that a dohc fits it's personality better than a more muscular pushrod. Please explain why you think this is so.

GM had a version of the DOHC in the 90 prototype didn't they?

i think the fastback looks more european design so if i swapped it, i would do a dohc swap but i think the sbc works with the notchy

Not so much any DOHC, as the 3.4 DOHC V6. Its got all the power and then some of the 2.8L, but it screams in the top end, it sounds acts and feels like a sports car, which is the image of a Fiero. You think of muscle cars as fast off the line, lots of low end power, but you dont want to run through a tight turn spinning 6k. The 3.4DOHC will spin 6k all day long, then scream right up to 7. When Im taking a gradual turn, I engine brake it and keep the RPMS up as high as I can, then just slam it out of the turn, usualy not dropping below 5k, I would hesistate to run a 2.8L that high, and I wouldnt be going any where if I was. You really have to drive and hear one to appreciate it. When first looking into a swap, I completely disregarded the 3.4DOHC and thought it would be stupid to go through all that work for just that. Then I ran across one and started looking into them, I still wasnt super thrilled but interested. Then I got mine running and drove it, After nearly wrecking it leaving the driveway Ive never looked back, though I have spent a lot of time watching people fade in my rear view mirror

quote Originally posted by fiero_silva: GM had a version of the DOHC in the 90 prototype didn't they?

I don't recall GM offering a Fiero for the 1990 model year. Last I checked the 1988 was the last model year offered and they came with pushrod engines.

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: I don't recall GM offering a Fiero for the 1990 model year. Last I checked the 1988 was the last model year offered and they came with pushrod engines.

SEE:
PROTOTYPE MODEL.

I agree alot with 86 here, I drive like this. It's only personal choice. Some people want the "muscle car" style, my vision of the Fiero, reminds me more of an exotic sports car. ie, mid engine, low sleek, 2 seater. I prefer the rpms it brings with it. Makes 1st gear alot longer, without feeling over revved. Revs ultra smooth, at 3000-3500 it is gone, (in a blink you are at 7000) Does not sound like a muscle car but trust me, they have muscle.

Ever seen the prototype for 89? Smaller displacement but this motor is a spitting image of the one they planned.

May not make as much tourque as a 3.8 SC but stock with less displacement, is only 25 hp benind. A simple cam timming mod and your about even. Now add thet blower or turbo, and = great potential.

Overhead cam motors have more of a modern or import character IMHO, and I think "Hot Rodding" is alot about style as it is muscle. So I would say its just my style and reflects my own tastes.

These are just my opinions, I dont use the "pushrod" word in any way derogatory. All the pushrod motors people swap are tried and true morors, and I'm sure there are alot that rev very smoothly too. There are alot of these running around that would give me an *ss woopin .

Everyone has heard this: Different strokes for different folks.

Travis

GM did have a DOHC engine during the Fiero's life but it was never used in the Fiero. Quad 4 anyone?

quote Originally posted by Mulholland_GT_Racer: SEE: PROTOTYPE MODEL.

Keyword in your post PROTOTYPE. Keyword in my post OFFERED. In other words GM never offered a DOHC in a Fiero for sale to the general public.

ah the power of the DOHC ....

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Soon to be a Northstar

HI all,

What is a dohc like on an automatic??

I think its because the cars that alot of the younger genaration have grow up with are all of the OHC type. Pushrods are a scary dinosour to them. For some reason they think that a pushrod motor has gone the way of the Dodo. You know " old tech "..."old millenium" . Personally I prefer pushrod motors.

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: I think its because the cars that alot of the younger genaration have grow up with are all of the OHC type. Pushrods are a scary dinosour to them. For some reason they think that a pushrod motor has gone the way of the Dodo. You know " old tech "..."old millenium" . Personally I prefer pushrod motors.

maybe it has to do with more valves per cylinder = more power potential -- technology doesn't advance for no reason

since you cant shift in turns when driving it at the edge, you want a motor that has a good rev range.

and also, it sounds much more Ferrari like - and since the Fiero is the "poor mans ferrari"....

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: Keyword in your post PROTOTYPE. Keyword in my post OFFERED. In other words GM never offered a DOHC in a Fiero for sale to the general public.

Hey, the guy was just trying to be helpful. Don't be such a jerk.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: since you cant shift in turns when driving it at the edge, you want a motor that has a good rev range. and also, it sounds much more Ferrari like - and since the Fiero is the "poor mans ferrari"....

i've never heard a ferrari that sounded quite like this

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/055267.html

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: maybe it has to do with more valves per cylinder = more power potential -- technology doesn't advance for no reason

New Z06 vette : dyno numbers 443. rwhp 413. rwtq

Yep. Those pushrods are sooo 20th century

quote Originally posted by UDLOSE: New Z06 vette : dyno numbers 443. rwhp 413. rwtq Yep. Those pushrods are sooo 20th century

yeah and it took them how many liters to get that?

a northstar with cams can make 400hp from 4.6L not 7L - and a ferrari makes almost 500hp from a 4.3L

pushrods still get the job done.. but don't deny that its past it prime

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-20-2005).]

Horse power #s are nice but were does the motor make it is the question. A N* motor is smaller, has more valves, and spins higher RPM but it makes that power in a diffrent spot on the tach and doesn't have the low end torque. In a small light wieght car like the Fiero the lower low end torque #s dont hurt performance as bad as say a 4000 lb 70s Nova. There is no replacement for displacement. If you want more low end power from an OHC bore and strock it.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: a ferrari makes almost 500hp from a 4.3L

How much does this ferrari motor cost? Like I said earlier, I believe people think a DOHC better suit the fiero's personallity, because thats what they are flooded with on a daily basis. The majority of car mags out there are of the import tuner type where the term DOHC is thrown around like the NOPI girls . Personally DOHC motors are more time consuming when it comes to rebuilds

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: How much does this ferrari motor cost?

and how much does that vette motor cost compared to a N*
whats this? your only argument is difficulty of rebuild and that its the engine technology the high dollar supercars use?
you do know that the MACH 1 mustang has a quad cam v8 right?

yes the its more expensive to build an engine with multiple cams than a single cam.. does that make the technology less superior?

Is a plazma TV inferior to a crt because its 10X more expensive?

I disagree that it's based on mass media. I've swapped 3.4L DOHCs, 3800SC, and also driven V8 conversions. While the (3.4L) DOHC isn't the fastest, it's the most fun for me. Lots of RPM range and sounds like a sports car engine. Certainly a bigger engine gives you more power but some people added personality into their decision. Once that happens you start to think about what engine might have been in there from the factory (DOHC : yes, 3800SC/V8 : unlikely) and then which engine performs in a way that matches your goals.

If your goal is a dragster, then the 3800SC/V8 is the way to go. The DOHC isn't a drag engine. If you want a more sportscar feel, then the DOHC fits the bill. For Californian's we have an additional consideration (emissions) and that limits our choices somewhat (we can't put 3800SCs on manual transmissions, etc.)

If you are looking to just be fast without any other considerations (which is abosolutely your choice), then the DOHC isn't really the right engine. Some people just want fast and nothing else.

For me, I wasn't looking for a Fiero that will take a 2006 Z06, I wanted a Fiero that had more power but still felt like a factory car so the DOHC was my first choice, but due to various circumstances I wound up doing a 3800SC first. Plenty fast but after a couple of months with it the car didn't fit what I really wanted. The DOHC wound up in a friends car (85GT). I sold the 3800SC car and will be getting his DOHC car (he bought an M3).

The Northstar is certainly an option but with a few additional challenges.

Think of it this way, you have a Chevette and 572 big block. Which one needs to change to make this work: The car or the engine.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 10-20-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: yeah and it took them how many liters to get that? a northstar with cams can make 400hp from 4.6L not 7L - and a ferrari makes almost 500hp from a 4.3L pushrods still get the job done.. but don't deny that its past it prime

Except for bragging rights, what is the big deal about the displacement? The N* can make more power per liter, but where is the advantage? The LSX engine is still lighter, is smaller in dimension making it easier to put into an engine bay, as a lower center of gravity allowing the car it is in to handle better, and gets better fuel mileage. I will agree that OHC engines do have advantages. Upper end power being a primary one. I just seem to bemissing why having a higher specific output per liter is such an advantage.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: and how much does that vette motor cost compared to a N* whats this? your only argument is difficulty of rebuild and that its the engine technology the high dollar supercars use? you do know that the MACH 1 mustang has a quad cam v8 right? yes the its more expensive to build an engine with multiple cams than a single cam.. does that make the technology less superior? Is a plazma TV inferior to a crt because its 10X more expensive?

I could care less about the rebuild cost etc. No one is going to mod a ferrari PERIOD!!. So thats a non-argument.
Id like to see HP numbers for built DOHC engines.
What kind of 1/4 mile times are these "superior" engines putting out? STREET DRIVEN CARS!!
Not cars running 60psi of boost with race gas and slicks.

Whats with the HIGH REVVV stuff? I remember those 4.9 guys getting bashed because they like the rumble of the V8. Now you REVVV guys are basically saying the same thing? I like the sound...oooh...ahhhh.... Is it because its a V8?

FIEROPHREK I dont know why youre holding it in. Say how you really feel

Mech-a-neck sunroof option.

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I race from a roll cause I need all the help I can get!!

quote Originally posted by UDLOSE: I could care less about the rebuild cost etc. No one is going to mod a ferrari PERIOD!!. So thats a non-argument. Id like to see HP numbers for built DOHC engines. What kind of 1/4 mile times are these "superior" engines putting out? STREET DRIVEN CARS!! Not cars running 60psi of boost with race gas and slicks. Whats with the HIGH REVVV stuff? I remember those 4.9 guys getting bashed because they like the rumble of the V8. Now you REVVV guys are basically saying the same thing? I like the sound...oooh...ahhhh.... Is it because its a V8? FIEROPHREK I dont know why youre holding it in. Say how you really feel Mech-a-neck sunroof option.

actually people do mod ferraris and includeing turbo upgrades
revs don't have anything to do with sound - they have to do with area under the curve, shiftpoints, road racing, staying in a lower gear longer (yes that means more power to the ground via gear reduction)

I like v8's but more cylinders, bicker pistons, and pushrods does not = superior technology

how much power have people gotten out of the pushrod 3.4? 200hp heavily modified? funny the 3.4dohc makes 210hp stock

the limitation of the 60*v6's power potential is the stock crank - with a much stronger crank it could really be put to the test because the heads have flow benched to be able to handle a lot more hp than the crank.. compare that to the 3800sc which is built strong but power/displacement is rather low the NA version only makes as much power as the 3.4

people are coming in here attacking the 3.4 like we insulted you because you have fewer cams.. WTF , how old are you?

some have even pointed out that they like the 3.4 for its finess - just like the fiero.. I got into fieros because they have finess - they aren't brute force monsters, if i wanted that I would have bought an old foxbody mustang and supercharged it a long time ago.

*Dons Flame suit*
I, at least, never said the DOHC was superior to any engine, just fits the bill for the Fiero. I mean you wouldnt expect a 454 to fit a chevette, nor would you want a Corvette with a 4cyl. The engine matches the cars common perception (no not the one that they're death traps ) Fast and curvy ( I'll let that one slide ) Yes, you can go much faster and make much more power with a larger OHV engine, but thats more the realm of the vette and old mustang, straight line racers, the Fiero is a small sporty car more along the lines of a lotus or ferrarri. Just trust me drive one and you will agree, you may not think its fast enough for what you want, but you will agree it fits perfectly.

And that video clip doesnt really sound like it should, they dont have the smoothest idle, they kinda lope and growl like a big block in the lower RPMs, but they DO sound like a ferrarri when you get them in the high RPMs. I actualy like that about em, they sound tough when you're loping around the city, but scream like a banshee on the highway. Hopefuly BoostedBird will chime in here. He was following me part of the way home from FieroRama everytime we came to an underpass we'd roll down the windows, slow as much as we could, then drop a gear and blaze through the underpass just to hear the echos . And I looked foward to going through toll boths, just to hear the exaust bouncing off the dividers. Trust me, the video does it no justice what so ever, if this isnt what a Ferrari sounds like, it should be.

quote [B]Originally posted by Kohburn: superior technology

Well since we are talking superior technology why are we even talking piston engines then? Anyway , have you ever heard of the Coates spherical valve engine? This would be superior technology. No cams at all, no springs very high RPM and very low drag on rotating assembly. So not only is my push rod inferior so is your DOHC.

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Well since we are talking superior technology why are we even talking piston engines then? Anyway , have you ever heard of the Coates spherical valve engine? This would be superior technology. No cams at all, no springs very high RPM and very low drag on rotating assembly. So not only is my push rod inferior so is your DOHC.

I have. many things may seem superior in theory - but in practice often aren't

don't know why you are turning it into a pissing match saying that people went with the DOHC because they are blinded by the media to think that pushrod technology is old dynosaur technology..

I said that the technology was superior, not that a specific engine was superior to another..

if you are insulted by advancements in technology then please feel free not to take advantage of them - but that ARE advancements

(message truncated to minimize negative effect on this thread)

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-20-2005).]

Ok pushrod guys, how about the LT5? A DOHC 5.7L Corvette engine. Its was definitly superior to the LT1, LT4 or L98. Only reason the corvette isn't dohc now is because the purists don't want it to be.

A 3.4dohc does suit the personality of the fiero. A SBC suits the personality of a muscle car.

DOHC engines make the same hp as much larger pushrod engines. A N* makes as much power as a corvette LT1 which has 1.1L on the N*. The N* is detuned for the Cadillac. With cams from www.chrfab.com and springs, the motor is near 400hp at the crank, and this is still mild and drivable. My N* makes 300hp stock and runs on 87 octane on 4.6L.

Torque isn't everything.

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Buy a fiero, become a mechanic
3.4 dohc Install
Sub Install
Northstar Install

I hear this talk about high reving engines and stuff. Well I got a 3400 and it revs more high enough for me. Plus I dunno I am partial to a pushrod. not really sure why, I guess its my roots in american muscle

EDIT: to note that it seems like alot of people are making it seem like the DOHC guys have something against the pushrod guys, and that they feel that pushrods are useless engines. Now I am not sure that this is indeed the fact. I mean heck to me it doesn't matter what engine it is, as long as its in a fiero. And hopefully there will be a test to see which will actually come out on top... I just need to get things together and get me a blower (I have no idea why I still dream about a SC when my car still doesn't run.... high hopes I guess)

[This message has been edited by MDFierolvr (edited 10-20-2005).]

anybody got more videos? maybe of them running high revs to hear them scream

With a dohc engine, you get the fuel economy of a smaller displacement engine when cruising and the HP of a larger displacement engine when getting on it.

Torque is made through displacement. An LT5 had all the torque of a pushrod SBC, but it made a whole lot more HP cause it could carry that torque higher in the rpm band. True, it is a larger engine, but its a small tradeoff for the improved performance.

If you want a torque monster, swap in a Duramax Turbo Diesel. The TOOORRQQQUUUEEE!!!

My N* fits the fiero engine bay like it was made for it.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: that pretty much comes down to application of power - and milage tends to factor in there too

Thats a political answer if I ever saw one.

Really, between the N* and the LSX engines, there is not much of an apparent advantage for the DOHC N* engine compared to the LSx engines for power, performance, or economy. Even GM has admitted this in print. They make a good comparison of actual engines too, since both are modern with recent updates, by the same manufacturer, and the specs are well known.

It is more difficult to compare across different manufacturers, because all the dimensions and specs are sometimes difficult to come by, and engines can be at different stages of development (such as a brand new DOHC engine vs a pushrod that is an older design instead of a modern one), differences in the cars they are used, etc.

However, in general, I think there still are some distinct advantages to the pushrod that often get overlooked by many (not saying by you) simply because they write them off as "old tech."

I wonder how many of those DOHC fans (again, not directed at you) that trash GM's pushrods know that GM was selling cars equipped with DOHC engines when their favorite Japanese import brand was still simply dreaming of ever gaining market penetration into the US.

A light car like the Fiero doesnt need much torque to get going. I find that most pushrod engines are tuned for lower torque, and in the Fiero, all lots of torque would do, is break drivetrains, and get the front end light, which will reduce turning ability, and most pushrod engines peak in their power curve lower than DOHC engines so you shift at a lower RPM, instead of holding the gear longer and getting more speed before shifting.

On my quad 4, I can shift down into 3rd gear when doing 70MPH, and hold it until 90MPH. When I was slaloming the other week, a guy in our Fiero club who had a 4-speed V6 was shifting alot more than I was with my Quad 4, I only used 2nd gear and 1st for one corner, he was in 1st on the same corner, and 2nd through the rest, but had to shift into 3rd for the staraights, which I bet lost time.