Pictures courtesy of Fred Bartemeyer (RAREW66)

Well boys and girls that bellhousing bolt pattern sure looks like standard GM FWD pattern to me! The bad news is it doesn't look like there is room for a starter to be mounted to the block so something will have to be done about that. I am sure someone can come up with a simple, small adapter that would allow a starter (maybe not stock Fiero or even GM) to be mounted to either to the trans or to the engine somewhere. Also note the serpentine belt tensioner with external spring. Very interesting...

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power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com

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"EuroSmooth Fiberglass Products"

Where's the starter on the 5.3?
This swap just got a LOT more interesting!!

Holy CRAP,Bolt a Getrag to taht and off you go!!!
I'd Pop the clutch to start it every time if I had to!!
Major drool factor there.....

Man that thing must be light! Looks like they figured out how to make an engine entirely out of plastic! That is plastic, right? Or are my eyes playing tricks.. (I know, it's a mock-up!) But yeah, check out that alternator bracket! That thing is about as solid as you can get. And interesting tensioner as you mentioned Darth... I wonder why the change... Pretty sweet though! Now as soon as some racer wraps one around a pole, who's going to be the first to swap it?!?!

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Bob Williams
Multi-colored '86 Mutt, a work in progress! (3800SC is installed and I'm driving it! AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHH!!! This sucker is FUUUUUUUUUUUN!!! :) )

I'm sure all the changes from the LS1 setup were to make the engine more compact for a transverse FWD mounting. Which just happens to make it easier to fit in a Fiero, too.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Where's the starter on the 5.3? This swap just got a LOT more interesting!!

The starter bolts on thru the transmission belhousing. There is a "hole" or provision on the transmission case that accomidates the starter. However, in looking over the pics some more it appears that there may be room for a starter on the block in the stock Fiero starter location but I doubt there are any bolt holes there. I sure somebody can figure something out.

So... how much does 5.3 have in common with the other GenIII SBCs? Are the internals at all interchangable? Does anybody know the bore of that puppy?

quote Originally posted by AnimalGT: So... how much does 5.3 have in common with the other GenIII SBCs? Are the internals at all interchangable? Does anybody know the bore of that puppy?

According to GM, this engine is based off the 5300 Vortec Truck engine which means that a lot of the aftermarket goodies available for the LS1 should work with this engine as well.

Cool. I just found this from a GM news website:

"The all-aluminum 5300 V-8 is the third displacement offering of the Gen IV small-block, which was introduced in the 2005 Chevrolet SSR, GTO and Corvette, as well as several 2005 GM SUVs. The 5300 V-8 shares a common architecture with these other versions, including a deep-skirt block, six-bolt cross-bolted main bearing caps, and structural oil pan, but is modified to accommodate the “east-west” mounting position of the Grand Prix’s front-wheel-drive chassis.

To fit the “sideways” positioning in the Grand Prix, several changes were made to shorten the engine’s overall length. The crankshaft was shortened by 13 mm – 3 mm at the rear and 10 mm at the front – and the entire accessory drive system was designed to reduce space. The water pump and all other accessories, including the power steering pump, are driven on a single-belt drive system – the longest drive system in a GM vehicle.

Engineers devised an elongated water pump manifold, which features a remote-mounted pump that feeds the stock Gen IV coolant passages via the unique manifold. The design allowed the drive system to be mounted closer to the engine block. Because of the 5300 V-8’s relatively low inertia, which can be up to 50 percent less at the crankshaft damper than a 6.0L V-8, a hydraulic belt tensioner was used instead of a conventional rotary tensioner.

The sideways position of the 5300 V-8 required revisions to the lubrication system. Engineers tested 5300 V-8 equipped test vehicles on racetracks, subjecting them to high-load turns that guided the development of special oil pan baffles that ensure lubrication during cornering. In addition, because Gen IV engines don’t have a block-mounted oil filter – it’s located on the oil pan – the 5300 V-8’s filter offers easy access.

Other 5300 V-8 features include:
Lightweight, three-piece friction-welded composite intake manifold
Aluminum high-flow cylinder heads similar to 6.0L V-8 (LS2)
Aluminum engine block with cross-bolted main bearing caps
Full-floating pistons
Electronic throttle control integrated with a new engine controller
10.0:1 compression ratio for fuel-efficient performance
Unique camshaft designed for DOD technology
GM Oil Life System to minimize required oil changes
Because of the front-drive layout, the 5300 V-8’s exhaust manifold routing includes two manifolds joined by a single crossover pipe, which connect to a single underbody catalytic converter. The crossover pipe allows the use of a single oxygen sensor, unlike north/south V-8 applications that have two oxygen sensors.

Sounds very interesting. Can't wait to see one on a Fiero.

I predict there to be an aftermarket explosion in support for this engine soon after it hits the market because it will be coming in the likes of the Grand Prix. Just the target market group I guess. You don't see a lot of people who own Cadillacs trying to mod them but it is hard to find a stock Grand Prix GTP these days. Just a hunch.

I need to go start saving my pennies, right after I change my shorts.

Great detective work!!! My prayers have been answered. All I want is that block, stuffed and topped with aftermarket goodies!

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

NICE--Not going to be easy getting your hands on one of those for a few years. Then once they are out your going to have to fight fist and nail with the GP people. But that only means the L-67 will become cheaper and more avaliable as the GP folks start doing the swap.

Here are some pics of the FWD 6 speed automatic trans that will be bolted to the 5.3L.

In this pic you can see the orientation of the starter Bendix to the flexplate ring gear:

Close up of what I would assume is a gear reduction starter:

The pics I shot of the engine and trans are actual components, GM just spent a bunch of time powder coating and chroming for the Auto show. They might be empty, but the components were steel. I found the belt/tensioner set-up and the remote coolant pump very interesting.

Funny story, the GXP Grand Prix that they had on the Floor at the Auto Show had a N/A 3800 in it. The Pontiac Rep that was there apparently was not to happy that some of us car enthusiasts were looking under the car and able to identify that the car was only in GXP trim. The hood latch was disconnected. I wanted a pic of the 5.3 in the car.

Fred

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RAREW66:

Here are some pics of the FWD 6 speed automatic trans that will be bolted to the 5.3L.

wait a minute? 6 speed auto? I thought it was getting a 4t65HD now it's a 6 speed tapshift trans my dreams just came true

Wonder what that thing would sound like with a short exhaust system with the displacement on demand? That might be one of the first things I would disable.

My kingdom for a manual transmission option.

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: Close up of what I would assume is a gear reduction starter:

Here we have what might be the easiest starter in the world to change, I bet those starters will never fail!

Thanks for the pics Fred! That's an interesting engine.

I saw that at the LA Auto show a few weeks ago. I have just been sitting on the pics.
That is the strangest GM tranny I have ever seen. The 6 speeds are need for the low torque of the DOD.
The V8 at the LA show did not even have the bell housing drilled? But if you look close you can see that it has the N* bolt patern, the right side bell housing hole is higher than the left.

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[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-26-2005).]

Is it me, or is the throttle body on the flywheel side of the engine??

This thing was MADE for the Fiero! They even put the intake on the right way!!!

Ed

PS

Those exhaust manifolds are either solid cast iron, or some sort of rapid prototype. Either way, they aren't gonna flow worth a darn.

I want one. NOW.

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1986 SE 350 V8

That looks so beautiful.... If this engine becomes very common (which I doubt) I see some V8 business out there loosing a lot of orders

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

Maybe I'm missing something but that doesn't look like the same bolt pattern to me. From looking at the pics I would guess that this 6spd auto is for the small Ecotec powered cars, but I don't really know what their bolt pattern looks like. The standard GM FWD pattern has the two high-mount top bolts you can easily recongnize by their increased distance from the flywheel, torque convertor, or crankshaft.

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

The GXP is going to have the 4T65E-HD trans for the time being. The 6-speed (jointly developed with FORD) isn't goint to be available for at least a year or two. We're going to be able to start ordering these puppies in March!

quote Originally posted by Jays 86: wait a minute? 6 speed auto? I thought it was getting a 4t65HD now it's a 6 speed tapshift trans my dreams just came true

From what I have heard, for 2005 the GXP that has the 5.3L V8 will be released with the 4T65-E HD trans. This 6-speed auto is due to be released into vehicles maybe as early as 2007 or 2006 model year. According to the GM Powertrain website, the 2005 GXP will come with the 5.3L / 4T65-E setup. The picture has me wondering that perhaps maybe another bellhousing design change is in the works or this particular trans isn't the exact one that will be found on the 5300 DOD engine.

This should make a nice swap when they start showing up in junkyards. did anyone else notice that it still retains some of the rear wheel drive bolt pattern and alignment pins???? I wonder why

Oh....... and it looks like it is throttle by wire just like the vette

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LS1 v8 T-Top 87 GT

http://www.acxunlimited.com/ls1swap.htm

[This message has been edited by LS1swap (edited 01-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: From what I have heard, for 2005 the GXP that has the 5.3L V8 will be released with the 4T65-E HD trans. This 6-speed auto is due to be released into vehicles maybe as early as 2007 or 2006 model year. According to the GM Powertrain website, the 2005 GXP will come with the 5.3L / 4T65-E setup. The picture has me wondering that perhaps maybe another bellhousing design change is in the works or this particular trans isn't the exact one that will be found on the 5300 DOD engine.

This is what I have found too. The new GXP will only see a 4 speed to start but the 6 speed is coming in a couple years.

As for the need of 6 speeds on DOD? There is no need for 6 gears on DOD as cylinders will kick in when the need arise. At idle and driving down the highway it will go to 4 cylinders and when you pass or pull away from a light all 8 kick in when power is needed. The truth is the six speed is more suited to a Ecotech or a overhead cam V6 or 8 application vs a low end V8 Chevy.

DOD is seamless and you will not feel it at all. The trucks that these were tested had a indicator that showed what cylinders you were running, but it felt in everyway a normal V8.

For all the info you need on the new V8 GXP GP , the V8 SS Impala and V8 SS Monte Carlo check out cheersandgears.com as this info has been on there for a few months.

The V8 is only a step toward the the RWD GP and Bonneville replacment coming in 2008. The V8 just buys time till the funding and development is in place for the new RWD cars to come. The 2 door will be the new GTO and the 4 door is rumored a G8. We will know more soon.

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: That looks so beautiful.... If this engine becomes very common (which I doubt) I see some V8 business out there loosing a lot of orders

Try not to worry too much about me, I'll be just fine.

Heck I'm still waiting for those 4.9 swaps to put me out of business.

Archie

All this would eliminate is the adapter plate. You'd still need mounts and everything else. I'm sure Archie will be fine.

This is why they still have the rear wheel drive bolt patern. They will be in rear drive cars too




this engine will be in ALOT of cars So we just need to adapt the rear wheel drive one's to front drive specs and bolt it in

I think the good news one can bring away from all of this is even if you are going to use an LS1 or other RWD variant of this engine, it appears that GM has gone to the trouble of designing a special water pump, assy drive, mounting, oil pan, and exhaust solution amoung other things for use in a FWD application to use on these engines. Although according to this same data, it appears GM has gone to great lengths to get that serpentine assy drive system as close to the block as possible so some other changes may have been made (ex: timing cover, balancer, etc) so some work may still have to be done to convert a RWD engine using the 5.3 parts.

As far as the bolt pattern; make no mistake the 5.3DOD engine has a FWD bellhousing with NO COMPLETE provisions for RWD bolt pattern. Like LS1swap said earlier, it appears some of the RWD provisions are still present, but not all of them. For example: the two upper bellhousing bolt holes for RWD are not present on the FWD block. The two upper holes in the FWD block trans bellhousing are NOT in the same location as the ones in the RWD block. It appears (as someone said earlier) that GM hastily pushed this 5.3 V8 into production so they could offer a V8 engine in a GP to compete in the FWD V8 market.

As far as availability is concerned, I think one would be hard pressed to get ahold of one this year but once these cars hit the street in great numbers, undoubtedly they will be hitting the junkyards shortly after that so you will be able to get your hands on one. Will they be more expensive than an LS1? I am sure they will, but consider that you will probably end up paying as much if not more to buy all of the parts required to get an LS1 into a Fiero than you would if you just got the 5.3 V8 that is already setup to be mounted transversely. For example: lets say that when the 5.3V8 hits the market (junkyard, etc) you will be able to pick one up for about $3000. But lets say by then you can get a decent LS1 for $1000. How much are all the custom parts or "kits" going to cost to get that LS1 into a Fiero and bolted to a transverse transmission? I think at the end of the day the LS1 swap is still going to cost more than dropping in a 5.3L / 4T65-E setup. Who knows for sure, time will tell. As far as fighting with the GP people for this engine? I don't think that will be as much of an issue as some are making it out to be. I have noticed most of the people in the GP camp are reluctant to do engine swaps to begin with, they would rather just buy the car with the engine they want in the first place.

Just as a teaser I am seriously considering doing a 5.3 V8 / 4T65-E swap into my 88 Coupe test mule, only it will be -- you guessed it -- TURBOCHARGED! Its either this or a Turbocharged Ecotec 4cyl pushing 500-600hp...I haven't decided. I am always looking for the next "different" project or swap.

Darth or someone, is there any word of a manual transmission being offered with the 5.3l V8 in a stock car? Or is CA once again gonna bend us over with their BS smog laws?

No manual is planned for this car. Stinks, doesn't it?

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: ......As far as availability is concerned, I think one would be hard pressed to get ahold of one this year but once these cars hit the street in great numbers, undoubtedly they will be hitting the junkyards shortly after that so you will be able to get your hands on one. Will they be more expensive than an LS1? I am sure they will, but consider that you will probably end up paying as much if not more to buy all of the parts required to get an LS1 into a Fiero than you would if you just got the 5.3 V8 that is already setup to be mounted transversely. For example: lets say that when the 5.3V8 hits the market (junkyard, etc) you will be able to pick one up for about $3000. But lets say by then you can get a decent LS1 for $1000. How much are all the custom parts or "kits" going to cost to get that LS1 into a Fiero and bolted to a transverse transmission? I think at the end of the day the LS1 swap is still going to cost more than dropping in a 5.3L / 4T65-E setup. Who knows for sure, time will tell. As far as fighting with the GP people for this engine? I don't think that will be as much of an issue as some are making it out to be. I have noticed most of the people in the GP camp are reluctant to do engine swaps to begin with, they would rather just buy the car with the engine they want in the first place......

100% agree with you. This may become a perfectly designed Fiero swap. Also have anyone here seen the HotRod and CHP articles on hooping up the 5.3? Intake and cam gets this baby near 500HP easily. Of course we will need a tranny to hold that up

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Of course we will need a tranny to hold that up

It comes with one...

You might want to check on the tranny as it is tha same as the 3800SC. The GP racers are breaking them at or aboue 320 HP.

I am hoping they beefed this one up, but I have not seen anything listed that tells what, if anything they did.
The diff is still the weak spot on this tranny.

I know the 3800SC in the 04 GP, they have dialed back the timing at the shift points and it robs you in the 1/4 mile of nearly a second. The GP guys are putting in new PCM's on the engines that lets the timing stay up and keeps the power coming in full. They nearly pick up the second and run low 14's to high 13s with mild mods. I hope they have not set the timeing back on the V8 also. I know from the GP sites many of the hard core racers install the Caddy tranny as it will bear the load for racing.

ClubGP.com has a lot of info on the trannys in the new GP's

I talked to a GM person at the SEMA show last November about the GXP a little. He said the car will still have 'torque management' like the 3800 S/C to deal with the transmission being able to withstand the power.

quote Originally posted by eatoninside: I talked to a GM person at the SEMA show last November about the GXP a little. He said the car will still have 'torque management' like the 3800 S/C to deal with the transmission being able to withstand the power.

I knind of figured this. This whole V8 thing is just to buy them time till the Zeta platform is ready so I did not think they would put much in this tranny for now. The Caddy tranny will work but they need to replace the floor pan and for the few years this will be around they will not spend the money.

If you guy want this set up the 06 SS Monte and Impala will have the same engineand may be easier to find.