Well here are a few pics of the new swap we are starting for the summer. This year we are going for mid 11's on the track. But I'm missing my 4.9 already. I hope this engine proves to be just as reliable.

Becky

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I'm looking forward to seeing more. Good Luck with the swap.

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The 4.9 To Be!

Hey I reconize that car

good to see that it made it to you guys

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Chris 85 Fiero SE 2.5L of fury
second one in the garage undergoing surgery
See the progress

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=347941&page

Sweet! wow thats gonna be one heck of a rocket. I think beck is gonna be the first woman on the moon... that thing is gonna fly. Now if only you can get it all dressed up and painted this time... (hint, hint, nudge, nudge... pete.)

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That is a nice upgrade! I look forward to reading more about this swap.

Wow! Cars must be really cheap over there. Is it really worth buying the whole car?

quote Originally posted by 4BanGinFun: Hey I reconize that car good to see that it made it to you guys

Thankyou for tipping us off on the car! You will get a ride when it's done as promised.

Becky

Excellent! We'll be watching....:}

Jay

Based upon what y'all did with the 4.9, this one is going to be seriously scary.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.
Read Nealz Nuze!

So much for the LS1. But hey, 32 valves are better then 16... I take it you aren't going to give us some hints as to whats to come of this beast, but I have a strange feeling its going to get turboed.

Cant wait to see what you guys do. Did some one buy the 4.9?

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-Chris -
Custom Gun Metal 86 GT 4.9 V8 5spd

Build up tread or MODS w/ Pics

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: So much for the LS1. But hey, 32 valves are better then 16... I take it you aren't going to give us some hints as to whats to come of this beast, but I have a strange feeling its going to get turboed.

No LS1 this time - we couldn't pass up on the price of this engine. Pete does plan on putting on a turbo.

quote Originally posted by Black-Azz-GT: Did some one buy the 4.9?

No, we have the 4.9 - it's still in my car.

Becky

That is how I will buy our next engine swap Get the entire car, take off what you need and sell the rest. Get the engine at a much lower price that way, and maybe even make money

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So here is the plan.

1994 4.6 northstar.
4T60 automatic trans, custom built with Phantom Grip.
7730 ecm, Dist mounted on end of camshaft.
T04 turbo custom build by "Cherry Turbo" Boost level still to be determained < 7 psi
Water to Air intercooled.

Engine will be stock other than new head gaskets and bolts with thead inserts. Gasket matched intake as required, ported exhaust.

Goals for this year, installed and running mid 11 sec in 1/4 mile. If all works out I may rebuild this N* or locate a lower milage engine in the years to come.

Why not use a caddy ecm? I want to be able to scan ecm and display to lap top, which I can do with the ecm I have now running the 4.9. I want to be able to program the PROM and make changes at the track and on the road.

Why not use the caddy 4T80? I already have a built 4T60 with LSD, and really don't want the extra weight. As well the 730 ecm will not control an electonic transmission.

Since we are using a popular 7730 ecm to run this Northstar like a SBC or the 4.9. I will need to mount and time a distibutor and position timing marks on the harmonic balancer.

These are just a few details.

Many thanks so far, I am not doing all the planning and building on my own, We do have a great community here. Her86GT, Rockcrawl, Spearce, 4BanGinFun are the ones I would like to thank so far, along with all the compliments and intrest here on PFF.

There will be lots of details and I am sure we can all benifit from a N* running on a cheap chevy ECM!

Pete

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This is gonna be good!

Are you using the Bubbajoexx type distributer set-up or one of your own designs?

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Roy

double-click on this link to follow my interior build-up https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/023174.html

Blue 87 GT w/ 4th generation Firebird interior.
Suncoast Fieros

Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 20th Anniversary Show @ Pontiac, Mich - 7/2003
Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 8th Annual Fiero Fun Weekend @ Daytona - 3/2004

what is the compression on the northstar motor?

can you lower compression by using the low output pistons from a quad4? should get compression down to 9:1-9.5:1 or so, might make for a boosted time.

matthew

I think this will be the scariest N* Fiero EVER..... well... so far!

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-----just me-----
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That has to be the coolest swap I can think of... turbo N*. Thats what I was hoping to do when I get another Fiero. Damn, thats gonna be fun to build. I'm jealous!!

Brad

PBJ
remember to weld a new ear on the trans as you will need all 4 bolts and the 4t60e there is one bolt on the botom on the trans side that is to low for the N* and will have to be raised up to fit the are only 4 bolts holding the trans on with N* engines why not use the HPV1 Ignition system it works great and has provisions for turbo timming and CB performance make a stand alone fuel system computer for Multi port injection that uses only 2 cencers temp and tps and is dash ajustable and turbo compatable with the turbo dash unit and is inexpesive for small block chev with only a tach imput and can be purchesed in part form
ECM and Dash control sold separetly and you can make your own harness

If I remember right ecm was 259.00

turbo dash control 349.00

Saber49 -yes we are planning on making this engine look as well as it runs, without the use of chrome, fortunatly Spearce is willing to help.

WingNut - MD -I hope this engine turns out to be an upgrade from the turbo 4.9 we have now, but really how can you improve on a low 12 sec engine that has not broken down.

Elenor84 -I have often heard in the long run to pick up the whole car would be cheaper but since we will only be using the engine and nothing else it may not have been that way. Fortunatly for us this whole car came up forsale at the right time and was brought to our attention to us, and delivered by tow truck for still under $1000.00.

Raydar -I am excited to build this one, it should really move....for a girls car

Fierobsessed -The LS1 I had was only a short block and once I lost a few bids on Ebay and found out how cheap I really am...I thought maybe another time. Also it was definatly going to be turbo'd no matter what V8 engine and I believe our trans budget is not ready for a turbo LS1.

Black-Azz-GT -We still have the 4.9, no plans yet to give it away, we will sell it though, eventually. Like I mentioned, it will be a hard engine to replace for durability.

mrfixit58 -Our distributor plan for now is much like the Honda, mounted directly to the end of the one camshaft.

m0sh_man -I have no intention at this time to modify the engine, I want it stock to see what it will do, with me being a Tech the labour to take it out next year to play some more is only more fun. This car is a hobby, and if it ever gets done, I will have to.......

NotAFieroAnyLonger -We shall see how scary this thing will be, I only want mid 11's, we shall see.

BtotheB -Fun is what this is all about-forsure.

bubbajoexxx -Thanks for the heads up on the bell housing, as for engine management, for now on paper I like what I have, but then again its not yet running in the fiero. or even removed from caddy.

Time to go back to work, sorry no time to proof read or spell check.

Pete

cam mounted dist wont work it has to be belt driven with a gimmler belt off a second pully attached to the water pump drive pully there is no way to afix a dist to the head without major re welding of the rear of the head lack of metal to make a secure place to mount it

quote Originally posted by bubbajoexxx: cam mounted dist wont work it has to be belt driven with a gimmler belt off a second pully attached to the water pump drive pully there is no way to afix a dist to the head without major re welding of the rear of the head lack of metal to make a secure place to mount it

Why can't you just make an extension on the water pump/cam pulley, and attach it with the valve cover mounting bolts? Better yet, why not go EDIS with a ford ignition module, and a ford reluctor ring on the crank pulley? Just a heads up - more than likely you're going to need to grind the 4t60 to clearance the starter... but you probably already knew that... So... Welcome to the club!

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Northstar 87 GT... "it's like being pushed by the hand of God."
Member of the greenbar syndicate

PBJ
So when can I expect to see the motor arrive at my shop for the obligatory makeover

Steve

Why not DIS?
Its still a Crank sensor to DIS unit, with normal 4 wires for control and 12V + Gnd right?
Im running a 7730 in my Fiero with DIS (on a 3.4) and the Grand Prix TGP code (good for boost!)
I think if you set the cyl select to 8, change the advance to match the engine, and modify the heck out of the tables you're good to go. The 7730 w/TGP code is designed to work well with the 4T60 (non E), DIS and MPFI, just make sure you get a vaccume modulator for a 89 TGP.
Best of all, its been hacked and commented to death. It's all set to go. Boost is set to 7-8 PSI stock, and has boost retard tables already onhand. You even just use a Fiero V6 harness with that computer! Just add the extra two injectors to the inj harness, lengthen and shorten cables to suite, change the knock sensor, re-organise the pins on the computer plugs, add the 3rd plug. You will have to add a couple wires to the harness to get it all to work, as well as change the EGR circuit (or eliminate it) and the fan switch would have to be moved to a computer output.

I was looking forward to killing your new LS1 swap with my turbo N*, then you go and change up the mess. I guess you were scared. I beat you with the 4.9, I can do it with the N* too.

quote cam mounted dist wont work it has to be belt driven with a gimmler belt off a second pully attached to the water pump drive pully there is no way to afix a dist to the head without major re welding of the rear of the head lack of metal to make a secure place to mount it

I believe that is exactly what he had in mind. That's how mine was set up. Darn copycat!

I can't understand half the technical stuff you guys are throwing down, but congratulations on the great deal! That's a lot cheaper than the crate N* we were talking about the other day.

Pete if you ever get this one finished and you are bored I can bring mine back up there for some tuning.

It's hard to be different!

$1,000 bucks for a northstar !!??

Are you kidding me ? That is a great deal.

Can someone tell me what years and model cars the northstars we can use came in ?

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: I was looking forward to killing your new LS1 swap with my turbo N*, then you go and change up the mess. I guess you were scared. I beat you with the 4.9, I can do it with the N* too.

If you don't know, 2 years ago Rockcrawl and I had a bit of a competition to build the fastest 4.9 between the two of us. Here is one of the theads. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20030819-1-026702.html he build up a modified 4.9 which we all know as the "shaker" and I put a home built turbo system on our stock 4.9. Now his is a stick shift and ours is an auto but there were no rules about that. Anyways he drove the car up to London and we raced them on the track. Sure was fun but Rockcrawl won with a time of 13.3 @ 106 mph with our 13.4 @ 99 mph. So quite obviously he was making some good hp with his naturally asperated 4.9. So guess what I did to turn our 13.4 sec turbo 4.9 into what is now a 12.2 sec 4.9...........followed the leader with his mods, only I also kept the turbo. Now it came down to another winter and another little competition. Rockcrawl is also building a N* turbo (I hope that's not a secret) and the challenge once again is who can be faster. Some may know I started putting together a turbo LS1 plan but then after adding up the numbers it was not going to work this year with just having a long block. So my plan was to lower the compression ratio of the 4.9 and easily obtain the 11's, to attempt to beat his N* turbo, but this donor STS came along and now we have a pretty fair challenge between us. Same engine, different transmissions (both auto), different turbo's, hmmmm, will be exciting.

As for what caddies came with N*'s. early 90's fwd caddy to present. Mid 90's was only N*

Pete

Here are some pics of our track day a couple years ago, Shaker and V8Dreamers car too.

In the back ground you can see Rockcrawl with the laptop, modifying his PROM to beat Beck.

[This message has been edited by PBJ (edited 12-08-2004).]

quote Originally posted by exoticse: $1,000 bucks for a northstar !!?? Are you kidding me ? That is a great deal. Can someone tell me what years and model cars the northstars we can use came in ?

I'd say I gave him a price he could not refuse... If I had the money, time and the Know how... I would have tackled it. but I'd much rather see it goto a good home, and hopefully beat Rockcrawls
Good luck Pete.... I cant wait till its ready

I have a 4T60 behind my SBC, and I got it from a forum member who was going to put it behind his N*. The reason I got it was because it wouldnt fit with the N*. I think he said 2" of the block would have had to have been shaved?? Anyway, just a heads up. Hope it does work for you, its a nice tranny.

If youdont mind me asking, where did you get LSD?

quote Originally posted by Mr. Pat: If youdont mind me asking, where did you get LSD?

I purchased the 4T60 transmission from Hugh here on PFF. I believe he had the transmission sent away and the LSD was installed by Phanotom Grip.

Pete

Cool, thanks mate.

The Northstar has lost about 4500 lbs and is waiting for its make over and a new body. Once we get started on the tear down and build up I will start a new thread with a Northstar heading so others can follow and maybe be able to do themselves.

Pete

What about this DIS controller?
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3632/MSD-Carbureted-LS1-Ignition-Controller.htm

It's for a carbureated LS1, so it's a stand-alone DIS controller. That might be an option instead of a distributor.
Now, if you want to integrate the FI and ignition, etc. then this probably won't work, but if the dizzy setup you were going to use was stand alone, this is a good alternative.

The major set back for trying to keep the distributor less ignition system is that the N* ignition module uses cam and crank sensors that are positioned 70 deg off. Meaning you need to correct the placement of the sensor or reluctor wheel. This info has been passed down to me.

Pete

PBJ
look for a computer from a late 92 allante as they where the first northstar implanted by caddy . the computer is OBD! and can have the chip reprogramed to
work in the fiero with your engine and you can keep all the original sensors and ignition setup .

Hmmm, so the 4.9 turbo is still for sale... and Christmas is coming... and I have some money left over from refinancing... oh, the temptation.

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Custom 85 under construction, 87 Coupe in the driveway. The fun never ends!

quote Originally posted by USFiero: Hmmm, so the 4.9 turbo is still for sale... and Christmas is coming... and I have some money left over from refinancing... oh, the temptation.

I could wrap it all up and put a bow on it too if you would like.

Pete