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"F" Body Power Steering in 88GT by Rickady88GT
Started on: 08-12-2004 02:14 PM
Replies: 55
Last post by: RCR on 12-29-2004 08:29 PM
Rickady88GT
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Report this Post08-12-2004 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

I have an 88GT and think that it is good enough without power steering, but I think it would be much better with a closer ratio steering rack. I belive that the only option for a closer ratio steering rack is with power assist. With out the assist I dont think I would like to drive the car around town and parking lots.
I am not yelling this, is a disclaimer
"THIS IS MY CAR AND HOW I CHOSE TO DO MY CAR. IF YOU ALSO CHOSE TO DO YOUR 88 FIERO LIKE I DID THAT IS COOL WITH ME. BUT I DONT CLAME THIS TO BE THE BEST WAY OR ONLY WAY TO DO A POWER STEERING SYSTEM IN A FIERO. IF YOU CHOSE TO DO POWER STEERING LIKE I DID THE LIABILITY IS TOTALY IN YOUR HANDS. I AM NOT A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER AND WILL TAKE NO RESPOSABILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE TO PROPERTY OR PERSONS FROM A CONVERSION THAT I DID NOT DO."
Please do not debate the need or lack there of for power steering on a Fiero. There are several threads for just that topic and I would very much appreciate the "power steering debate to take place there not here.
Thank you for your understanding. Rickady

This is for an 88 Fiero. And may also work for pre88's if it is done right. But I have not made any attempt at doing this to a pre88. So if you want to do a pre88 its back to the drawing board.


I do not have my 3.5 88GT to work on as it is in the paint shop. So I used the "test mule" and will convert it over to the 3.5 as soon as I get it back from the body shop. So this may take a little while to finish.

I started by taking the entire front Xmember out of the car and removing the stock rack and mounts.

Then preped for the new mounts.


Parts list

WS6 f body steering rack (2.25 turns lock to lock)
rack to fiero tie rod adapters
custom steering rack stops
misc. metal pieces for mounts
metal hydralic rated tube


------------------

Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-12-2004).]

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Kohburn
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Report this Post08-12-2004 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post

tell me there is more info on the way

(edit - not to hijack but did the 84's have a closer ratio stearing rack?)

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 08-12-2004).]

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post08-12-2004 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

There is lots more, but I can only post so many pics in each response. I also
gotta download from my camera and resize them. The project is almost complete. I just
need to get my car back from the shop because it has the pump on it and my test mule does
not have a pump. If I had my car back I would be already driving it with power steering.

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x-thumpr-x
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Report this Post08-12-2004 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for x-thumpr-xClick Here to visit x-thumpr-x's HomePageClick Here to Email x-thumpr-xSend a Private Message to x-thumpr-xDirect Link to This Post

Hmmm looks promising, Glad I haven't gotten ride of my power steering pump from the 3400 yet

clumpsy fingures

[This message has been edited by x-thumpr-x (edited 08-12-2004).]

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mcaanda
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Report this Post08-12-2004 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaClick Here to Email mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post

Hey Rick, I stopped by this afternoon and I didn't see the JEEP out front...did you happen to get those knuckles back from the machine shop?

Looks great. Those pics don't do the install justice.
2.25 is just a turn down the road!

BTW:
It's T - minus 15 min till 4....

Are you on the way to the shop?

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post08-12-2004 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

Next, I measured exactly where the stock rack was positioned then put the f body rack input shaft in the same spot as the stock rack. Then designed adapters for the fiero tie-rods to bolt to the f body rack.

Then I made the power steering mounts.

Notice the stock mounts on the fiero rack and the custom mounts on the f body rack.

The racks look similar to each other but the f body rack is much shorter.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post08-12-2004 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

I lined up the rack and welded the mounts.

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post08-12-2004 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post

Nice job

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post08-12-2004 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

Thanks

I did not need an adapter for the steering input shaft. The stock Fiero universal joint bolted right up to the F body rack.
With out the engine turning a pump for the rack the steering effort is noticeably harder, but my test mule is power steering equipt and only 2.25 turns lock to lock

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RickN
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Report this Post08-12-2004 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RickNClick Here to Email RickNSend a Private Message to RickNDirect Link to This Post

Since you said the F-body rack is shorter, are you loosing any turning radius? Probably doesn't make any difference except in a tight parking lot.

------------------
RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post08-12-2004 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

Yes, it will have shorter turning radius because of the shorter travel in the f body rack. But to maintaine the same amount of turning radius I had the knuckles machined to relocate the outter tie rod end closer to the ball joints. For those that run wider tires the knuckle modification is not needed because the tires will rub if they are turned too far anyway. The stock fiero geometry is maintained so there is no compromise in handling. That's why I went to the trouble of making the adapters and steering stops.

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MikeW
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Report this Post08-12-2004 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MikeWClick Here to Email MikeWSend a Private Message to MikeWDirect Link to This Post

Keep going, I'm enjoying this. I've been spoiled with the steering in my Corvette. A little lighter effort and quicker ratio is what the doctor ordered for the Fiero. With this prescription filled I might autocross and attack some cones. Looks like it may turn out to be better than the transplant in Kit Car Builder.
Mike

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post08-12-2004 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

I have a Chevette rack on the shelf and it aint even close to the ratio of the F body rack.
In my opinion the Chevette rack is a poor choice for 88 Fiero's. The ratio is the same and the 88's have a good "feel" so just boosting the same ratio is not the direction I want to go. But I also had an 87GT and feel that it could use the extra boost. Even better than just extra power assist why not get a better ratio too?
The F body rack is not a direct bolt on and it is not perfect but for me it is the best rack that I have found. And I have seen the conversions of other racks, and I think this rack is no more dificult to do.

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Fierokid87
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Report this Post08-13-2004 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Click Here to Email Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Direct Link to This Post

do you plan to release a "kit" for those who want to do this conversion? You know with the rack to Fiero tierod adapters, and the mounts?

------------------

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mcaanda
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Report this Post08-13-2004 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaClick Here to Email mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Fierokid87:

do you plan to release a "kit" for those who want to do this conversion? You know with the rack to Fiero tierod adapters, and the mounts?

Hahahaha...yea, right into my 88GT!

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post08-13-2004 12:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

This does not look my engine. Whos is it?



As of yet I have plans on makeing more than one system.
In this pic I am makeing a Power Steering Pump mount in a 3800SC.
Because of the complexity of the power steering rack mount positioning I am not sure if I will send "kits" out or not. The mounts are very critical and could adversly effect the handling of the car if instaled wrong. There is also the customized knuckles to maintain the full wheel travle.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-07-2004 12:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

No progress yet My GT is not back from the body shop yet
But as soon as I get it back it should only be a days work to do the conversion on it.

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x-thumpr-x
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Report this Post09-07-2004 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for x-thumpr-xClick Here to visit x-thumpr-x's HomePageClick Here to Email x-thumpr-xSend a Private Message to x-thumpr-xDirect Link to This Post

Any pics on the knuckles?

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Fastback 86
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Report this Post09-07-2004 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post

Is that mcaanda's car?

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Vonov
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Report this Post09-07-2004 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VonovClick Here to Email VonovSend a Private Message to VonovDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Because of the complexity of the power steering rack mount positioning I am not sure if I will send "kits" out or not. The mounts are very critical and could adversly effect the handling of the car if instaled wrong. There is also the customized knuckles to maintain the full wheel travle.

Hey, Rick, what about making available a couple of mounting templates, with patterns for the mounts, and cardboard locator guides to enable positioning of the mounts without doing measurements in three dimensions? Include an instruction sheet, for doing the conversion, and I'd buy that in a New York minute. That way, you'd eliminate cost of fabrication and shipping of the actual parts.
Tony

------------------
88 Formula, "Asphalt Aviator"

"I've seen em---they're little fellers. You know, the Artesians..."
---caretaker at Olympia Brewery

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pokeyfiero
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Report this Post09-07-2004 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroDirect Link to This Post

I really like this project you have inspired me.I think i have everything i need to do this project in house i might give it a go.

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mcaanda
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Report this Post09-08-2004 01:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaClick Here to Email mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

Is that mcaanda's car?


------------------

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-08-2004 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

I guess I never thaught about paterns to do this but it realy is a must. Thanks for the input. I would love to drive this thing but getting the car back is going to be the hard part. The BAR is going to help out.

This swap is not all that hard to do. Just figure out were you want the rack and make mounts. The adapters can be made with ease. I will have Emachine make them for me, Full CNC if I sell them. But I cant give it all away yet

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Will
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Report this Post09-08-2004 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I guess those are extensions on the end of the new rack?
How long did your rack extensions have to be to get the Fiero tie rod ends located correctly?
Do you have a close picture of them?

------------------
Punch the gas and feel the back step sideways; rip off a powershift and hear the tires punished by torque; downshift, lift off and feel the engine braking that comes only from big cubes, listen to the pop and gurgle. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none that are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-08-2004 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

Actually, there are no adapters on in yet, in that picture. Notice that the F body rack ends are female and the Fiero are male. So the extensions are simply a piece of round stock with threads on each end so one end will thread into the rack and one end will thread into the inner Fiero tie-rod. I don't have closer pictures of the adapters installed. I know I got pictures of the adapters and spacers but I'm not sure where they are at right now. Each adapter also has to have an equal length spacer to maintain the proper F body travel.

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Will
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Report this Post09-09-2004 08:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

Ok... why's the end of the F-body rack a different color than the rest?

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-09-2004 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

the very end is not ground, it is rough. That is just the light and angle of the pic.

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Doug Chase
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Report this Post09-09-2004 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug ChaseSend a Private Message to Doug ChaseDirect Link to This Post

'88 power steering is in my future some time so I've been reading this thread with interest. Here is what I understand to be correct:

The F-body rack is 2.25 turns lock to lock.
The F-body rack is shorter than the Fiero rack.
The F-body rack has less travel than the Fiero rack.
To make up for the less travel you shortened the steering arm on the knuckle.

Is the F-body rack any quicker than the Fiero rack? By that I mean for 1 turn of the input shaft how many inches of rack movement do you get in the F-body rack vs. the Fiero rack?

------------------
Doug Chase
Chase Race
Custom roll cage and exhaust fabrication

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-09-2004 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

Yes on all counts. But if you have big tires on the front that will rub at full turn, you dont need to mod the knuckles. Just put the rack in and go. Or, if you dont mind losing a little turning radius just do the rack.

I have always said that the "F" body rack is not perfect but is a good choice. But, I think I found a better rack
The Fiero rack turns one rev and the rack gear moves 1.52
The "F" Body rack moves 2.05 per rev
The NEW rack moves 2.14 per rev and has as much travle as the Fiero rack. So the Ratio is even faster than the "F" body and has the travle Fiero
When I get the new rack I will start all over with a new power steering conversion. But tell then the "F" body will work.

BTW I like your roll bar. Mcaanda put one in his 88GT that I helped install a 3800SC into.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 09-09-2004).]

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shop_rat45
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Report this Post09-09-2004 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shop_rat45Click Here to Email shop_rat45Send a Private Message to shop_rat45Direct Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Yes on all counts. But if you have big tires on the front that will rub at full turn, you dont need to mod the knuckles. Just put the rack in and go. Or, if you dont mind losing a little turning radius just do the rack.

I have always said that the "F" body rack is not perfect but is a good choice. But, I think I found a better rack
The Fiero rack turns one rev and the rack gear moves 1.52
The "F" Body rack moves 2.05 per rev
The NEW rack moves 2.14 per rev and has as much travle as the Fiero rack. So the Ratio is even faster than the "F" body and has the travle Fiero

What's this "NEW" rack from?

Kris
When I get the new rack I will start all over with a new power steering conversion. But tell then the "F" body will work.

BTW I like your roll bar. Mcaanda put one in his 88GT that I helped install a 3800SC into.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-09-2004 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

I wont say were the new rack comes from until I get one in my hands and see how well it will work. I have one, but it is the wrong version. That is how I know the specs.

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Will
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Report this Post09-10-2004 08:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

I lose more cats that way...

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tesmith66
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Report this Post09-10-2004 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Direct Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

I lose more cats that way...

Cougar, maybe? What's the big secret?

------------------
1986 SE 350 V8

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-10-2004 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

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Report this Post09-10-2004 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VonovClick Here to Email VonovSend a Private Message to VonovDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66:


Cougar, maybe? What's the big secret?


I believe he's referring to curiosity, lol...

------------------
88 Formula, "Asphalt Aviator"

"I've seen em---they're little fellers. You know, the Artesians..."
---caretaker at Olympia Brewery

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Will
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Report this Post09-10-2004 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-19-2004 02:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

I goT the system in and running
I cant drive the car for a few days, it has no body on it yet
But it feels great so far.

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Stinkin_V8
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Report this Post09-19-2004 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Stinkin_V8Send a Private Message to Stinkin_V8Direct Link to This Post

Awesome! I can't wait to hear what you think of driving it.

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OutlawFiero
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Report this Post09-19-2004 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OutlawFieroClick Here to visit OutlawFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email OutlawFieroSend a Private Message to OutlawFieroDirect Link to This Post

This is really cool. I hope you will sell or share whatever info about this rack, because it opens the door to much wider in respect to Auto X Fiero's. I for one really appreciate your research into a worthwhile swap for 88's. Nice.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post09-19-2004 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post

Cool, Thanks. If you come up to the Songman's California Coast Run you can see it in action.

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