This is an appology to all but mostly to Shawn .... We knew how the judging lanes were gonna work ... we should have published that in the rules. It was never meant to hurt anyone. For our oversight we, the Officers and Directors of CFOGi, appologize.

Dale Starcher, VP, CFOGi

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www.cfogi.org

I apolgize if this is not the correct thread, but these were my observation of the 20th car show.
When I think of the 20th car show the first thing that comes to mind is chaos. (Discloser: I’m a dues paying Michigan Fiero Member). My wife and I arrived on Saturday around 1:00, and couldn’t find a parking spot. In fact ,in our attempt to find parking we mistakenly ended up driving our Jeep through the show car area because the hotel parking lot winds around the entire hotel. We felt foolish but either we didn’t see the show cars only signs (other than Valet Parking Only) or there wasn’t any posted.
Twice while walking around looking at cars we were almost hit by show car participants, they were either going to judging or returning from judging. I thought for sure someone would be hit before the show was over and a lawsuit filed. The waiting line to be judged was very long, and you could tell most folks were trying to make the best of a bad situation, but you could also tell some of them were very frustrated.
Also there didn’t seem to be any categories of models or years in the show area, it appeared everyone just parked wherever they wanted. I tried to talk to some vendors, but they were pretty busy, tried to look at the GM vehicles but people were camped out in front of them talking or waiting for the crowd to clear to take pictures.
My wife is pretty patient woman, but even she remarked she thought people were being rude. Things like people coming up and breaking into our conversations with show participants, people walking directly in front of us and then giving us dirty looks like we were in their way, getting bumped into with no apologies offered, etc. We’re both pretty laid back folks and take things as they come, but when we hear things like how friendly people are, and nice, we wonder if they were at the same show.
I had brought along a pair of Fiero leather seats hoping to sell them in the swap meet area. We finally found it, stuck out in a separate parking lot behind large shrubbery, unfortunately it was when we were leaving the show.
Basically we felt like the organizers weren’t prepared for such a large turn-out, the layout of the hotel parking lot wasn’t conducive for a large car show, participants were not courteous to pedestrians, and lack of prominent signs explaining the layout of the show.
In spite of my above comments, we did enjoy the show for the most part. The quality of the cars was high, and the turn out fantastic. Hopefully next year’s turnout will be just as successful. I hope my comments can be used constructively to help plan future Fiero shows because that is my intent. Thank you.

quote Originally posted by ChopTop: I apolgize if this is not the correct thread, but these were my observation of the 20th car show. When I think of the 20th car show the first thing that comes to mind is chaos. (Discloser: I’m a dues paying Michigan Fiero Member). My wife and I arrived on Saturday around 1:00, and couldn’t find a parking spot. In fact ,in our attempt to find parking we mistakenly ended up driving our Jeep through the show car area because the hotel parking lot winds around the entire hotel. We felt foolish but either we didn’t see the show cars only signs (other than Valet Parking Only) or there wasn’t any posted. Twice while walking around looking at cars we were almost hit by show car participants, they were either going to judging or returning from judging. I thought for sure someone would be hit before the show was over and a lawsuit filed. The waiting line to be judged was very long, and you could tell most folks were trying to make the best of a bad situation, but you could also tell some of them were very frustrated. Also there didn’t seem to be any categories of models or years in the show area, it appeared everyone just parked wherever they wanted. I tried to talk to some vendors, but they were pretty busy, tried to look at the GM vehicles but people were camped out in front of them talking or waiting for the crowd to clear to take pictures. My wife is pretty patient woman, but even she remarked she thought people were being rude. Things like people coming up and breaking into our conversations with show participants, people walking directly in front of us and then giving us dirty looks like we were in their way, getting bumped into with no apologies offered, etc. We’re both pretty laid back folks and take things as they come, but when we hear things like how friendly people are, and nice, we wonder if they were at the same show. I had brought along a pair of Fiero leather seats hoping to sell them in the swap meet area. We finally found it, stuck out in a separate parking lot behind large shrubbery, unfortunately it was when we were leaving the show. Basically we felt like the organizers weren’t prepared for such a large turn-out, the layout of the hotel parking lot wasn’t conducive for a large car show, participants were not courteous to pedestrians, and lack of prominent signs explaining the layout of the show. In spite of my above comments, we did enjoy the show for the most part. The quality of the cars was high, and the turn out fantastic. Hopefully next year’s turnout will be just as successful. I hope my comments can be used constructively to help plan future Fiero shows because that is my intent. Thank you.

I think these issues need to be addressed to Bob Holtz/MFC, not CFOGi.

Eric Schneck
North East Regional Director, CFOGi

Thanks Dale........but I 110% agree with Eric.........It is not CFOGI who should be apologizing, granted the "rules" were left out on paper but that is only a minor issue.

We are still waiting for the real culprit.................

Geeze Eric, is it really neccessary to quote the whole thing on the very next post? Must be suffering from that front engine vertigo again

>>>>>

Edited to take out my question and sent privately instead via PM to CFOG-International

>>>>>>
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Now over 400 pics of our 18 Fieros: http://www.cardomain.com/id/fiero5

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 07-23-2003).]

Dale,

This can be worked out easily. Throw the offer in Pm or email or on the phone

[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-23-2003).]

quote Originally posted by yello86se: Dale, I have talked to Chuck last night.. A little Pennocks apology isnt going to work. As you know there was more going on with the 1 judge than just what you are syaing. Again speak with Chuck Hodges if you want the info he has. I would highly suggest that more is done than this...

Ron, the first post in this topic was regarding Shawn's situation, not yours. On the advice of our attorney, we have no comment at this time to anything regarding your complaint.

PM sent CFOG International.

I had a wonderful time at the show. Maybe because it was my first show and im not used to how things are supposed to work, or maybe because i went there without any thought of winning anything. but i felt it was planned pretty well. they seemed to have all our rooms overlooking the parking lot! it's hard to blame them for just not having enough room. the show seemed to be victim of it's own success. anyway, i have no idea what was going on with judging, so please don't get on me for that. aside from the judging i thought the show was outstanding. maybe some of it had to do with that we were staying at the hotel, i think i would have been totally lost if i didn't see the info that was available at the hotel. that could possibly have made the difference too

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My 85 Fiero GT

Victim of our own success .... yeah ... that's it !

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Geeze Eric, is it really neccessary to quote the whole thing on the very next post?

Umm, yes.

oooh, this sounds good, someone PM me some dirt so i can know what happened.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: oooh, this sounds good, someone PM me some dirt so i can know what happened.

Go to the trash can.........bottom of page 3

While some people were treated unfairly, Ron, I really think that no grounds are present for a lawsuit.

WTF?? Why is the legal system being brought into a car show topic?? Apologies have been made. I think that your beef is with the actual judges. If not, PM me and set me straight. I just believe that this is going way too far.

I, for one, would like to see another great car show hosted be MFC and CFOGi...

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#7277 of 46581 built in 1987.

My thoughts are on you Sean and Chris! Come back safe!

quote Originally posted by Xantavar: While some people were treated unfairly, Ron, I really think that no grounds are present for a lawsuit. WTF?? Why is the legal system being brought into a car show topic?? Apologies have been made. I think that your beef is with the actual judges. If not, PM me and set me straight. I just believe that this is going way too far. I, for one, would like to see another great car show hosted be MFC and CFOGi...

I agree. I can't imagine dragging something like this into court. PM me also if I'm missing something Ron.

Sorry spoke out of turn

[This message has been edited by Ancaster (edited 07-23-2003).]

Like sands through the hourglass........

-T

Ancaster...You have the wrong club named Its MFC . NOT MFF. My club (MFF) had nothing to do with it.

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I am sure the right descision will be made by the right people
[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-23-2003).]

[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-23-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Boomtastic: Umm, yes.

Oh, I'm sorry but that is the incorrect answer. Thanks for playing though

Just out of curiosity (I know it killed the cat ) what are you looking for Yellow86se to satisfy you and is it attainable?

It is very attainable........

I did get one thing I wanted from Bob Holtz on sunday,, I can not comment or say what it is!!!!

Thank you Bob for what you did!!!

[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-23-2003).]

Guys, this was a great show!!!!!!!!! I know some mistakes were made, and it happens at every car show. Your taking the greatest show and making it sound horrible. I have nothing to do with the show and I do feel bad for you, but to go on like this and to threaten to sue, your making these guys not want to put on another show. The Fiero got enough bad press with the engine fires, it doesn't need this as well. I hope this all dies down soon and we can start planning for the 25th, this way we can get everything ready and all the kinks worked out. I for one want to see this tradition and quality of show to continue. I can vouch for Dale and believe that nothing was done intentionally and everyone feels bad about what happened to more than just you. Hell Dales car was jugged wrong as well, and he didn't even get to see most of the show! Lets move on. I am not trying to flame but trying to defuse the situation. Please guys lets talk about all the good these guys did and leave the bad behind us.
Anthony

You guys have no idea how much I actually seen and did. I had the biggest most bestest tiem any kid my age could ever have.
This probelm lies with the judge, not anyone else

[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-23-2003).]

Well Yellow, I am glad to hear that you did have a great time as far as everything else goes. I just didn't want everyone thinking it was all bad. It is a shame the judge messed up.
Again THANKS for letting everyone know you did have a good time besides the judging!
Anthony

quote Originally posted by CFOG-International: Ron, the first post in this topic was regarding Shawn's situation, not yours. On the advice of our attorney, we have no comment at this time to anything regarding your complaint.

Okay...trying not to stir the fire here...

These people stuck out thier necks to provide us with one helluva fiero show. The above statement really concerns me, though. If car clubs are going to be consulting lawyers over some unhappy attendees on a regular basis...I dont think there WILL be anymore shows.

Consider what you are doing. Think of the bigger picture. Is your satisfaction worth the entire fiero world suffering??

We ALL await your answer.

edited

[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-23-2003).]

quote Originally posted by ambfiero: Guys, this was a great show!!!!!!!!! I know some mistakes were made, and it happens at every car show. Your taking the greatest show and making it sound horrible. I have nothing to do with the show and I do feel bad for you, but to go on like this and to threaten to sue, your making these guys not want to put on another show. The Fiero got enough bad press with the engine fires, it doesn't need this as well. I hope this all dies down soon and we can start planning for the 25th, this way we can get everything ready and all the kinks worked out. I for one want to see this tradition and quality of show to continue. I can vouch for Dale and believe that nothing was done intentionally and everyone feels bad about what happened to more than just you. Hell Dales car was jugged wrong as well, and he didn't even get to see most of the show! Lets move on. I am not trying to flame but trying to defuse the situation. Please guys lets talk about all the good these guys did and leave the bad behind us. Anthony

I'm sorry I had to quote everythig that Anthony said, but I feel the same way he does.

Every MFC show I've been to has had Drive thru Judging. I don't like it but that's the way it is. I didn't take my car thru the Judging lanes because I just didn't feel like spending all that time sitting in line.

I would like to address all the MFC & CFOGi people who made this show happen. Dear MFC & CFOGi organizers, Please understand that these 2 or 3 whiners with their foul mouths and threats of lawsuits don't represent the rest of us 400+ people who loved the show. Please don't let thier threats and foul words dissuade from participating in organizing other events in the future.

I didn't present my car for judging, because I knew it wasn't worthy of winning an award. These desenters should look over thier shoulder and see if they really had a chance in thier classes.

Congrats to CFOGi & MFC for putting on an event that drew more than 400 cars & owners to a very nice hotel. Thanks for 4 days of perfect weather & perfect cars. Thanks for bringing together so many nice Fiero people from around the country. Thanks for the Display cars and thanks for taking a big chunk of your own time to make this all happen for us.

It's hard to believe that after all this some CFOGi &/or MFC members are being asked to apologize under threat of lawsuit.

As for me, & the majority of those that attended the show, Thanks Guys and Gals!

Archie

Well said, Archie, and ambfiero.

I think Shawn had reason. I was there for it all and an apology was made. That's it. Cut and dry.

The lawsuit is what bugs me...

ambfiero: What did Hulki sign on that 84se? Again, beautiful car. What were the others you said you had?

[This message has been edited by Xantavar (edited 07-23-2003).]

edited

[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-23-2003).]

Xantavar
He signed my fender and a bunch of stuff I had with me. He also drove my car throught the judges lane as well as have his picture taken with my family and the car. He was a great guy! I kept thanking him for making the little car, he just said, I cant believe you still have a.... Well a brand new one. I think it took him by surprise to see the car with everything still in plastic and only 15miles. Thanks for asking.
Anthony

Yeah the lawsuit is very disturbing!!! Now the directors of CFOG and others have to worry about the ***** $%# and complaining of a few people. I wish their only concern would be planning next years event but no they have to listen to threats of a LAWSUIT. At a friggen car show!!! Hate to vent here but grow up people.

[This message has been edited by Roylmohr (edited 07-23-2003).]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.... looks like someone has been very busy editing all his not so nice posts-

[This message has been edited by MsBeth (edited 07-23-2003).]

Oh don't worry .... we're already planning next years event . stay tuned !!!

Great spirits Dale...

PST.... I wana help! But you already know that. =)

Cant wait to start that SB install.

Anthony

Well, in PM's, Ron threatened me in a not-so-subtle way by calling himself a lawyer for a post I made above. I didn't care, just edited because it didn't make sense. He says he has enough to disband two whole clubs...

If you want the story, PM me.

[This message has been edited by Xantavar (edited 07-23-2003).]

Xantavar,

I edited the posts for the simple reason of dealing directly with those involved.
You on the other hand want to get in the middle and mess things up dont you. This evetn and situation does not invlove you in any manner. Or does it?

Archie, Thanks for piping in on this, However you have no idea what we are discussing. I and purple want the reconciliation from the right people. So, I guess thsi has no concern of you as we simply stated the facts of what happened.
End Of Discussion.

[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by yello86se (edited 07-24-2003).]

It does concern me. You see, I am one of the ~7,500 other fiero owners on this board. Fiero owners that, I am sure, want to have a good show. I certainly dont want to hear about your crap with CFOGi and MFC. I am onto you, remember?

You need to understand that the more trouble you make, the less friends you have. You are making trouble out of a show of 400 attendees. Need I say any more?

Keep it all to yourself for now on. No one wants detailed coverage of whining on the forum.

Thanks,
Ryan (not hiding my name) Arnett

Archie .........dont be lumping me in with these other pricks with a loud mouth. I just stated my small situation ( trash can thread ) which is being taken care of by Dale. I'm just trying to stand for what should have been resolved when at the show.

END OF STORY !!!!!!

and Ron ........SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!
I'm agreeing with the rest......it's just a car show !!!!!!! it's so not worth legal threatening crap !!!!!!!!! You'll just wreck any future shows.
a simple apology will do........... E N D O F S T O R Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 07-24-2003).]

As a update ....

A.CFOGi will not have drive thru judging lanes anymore .... however any car wishing to be judged shall need to be in running/driving trim to be eligible. This will be posted into our rules. Exceptions could be made at our descresion.

B. Judging sheets will NOT be made available to the contestants or anyone other than the Judging staff and the CFOGi Board of Directors. PERIOD

After 30 + years of going to car shows I have never yet been to one that rules and judging errors, be they real or imagined, havn't happend. I've been to major profesional shows ... damn if the errors don't still happen !!! CFOGi and MFC ... well - we're just enthusiasts and volunteers .... not pro car show promoters.

We all worked pretty hard on this show ... missed a few pitches but it would seem we still won the game. 400+ Fieros !!!!