Many here seem to constantly battle each other over which engine is better, faster etc. So why not simply race different swaps against each other while in Pontiac, MI to get a better idea of each swaps potential?

put that fancy SD4 running around in the states in that race too.

as for potential that is easy. THe SBC win, yup I love the 3800SC and there are A LOT of parts for the 3800 SC, but there are 5x as many parts for the SBC, the next in potenial is the 3800 SC followed by the 4.9. The interesting thing would be a run of the mill SBC (no ls1/lt1) vs stock 3800 SC and 4.9s.

nothing will ever settle it there will always be excuses and people will alway stand behind the engine they prefer, and there are advantages and disadvantages to all of them, AND i dont see why people cant just drop it and realise a fast Fiero is a fast Fiero and thats cool! when you running 12's or less, to me, it doesnt matter whats pushin you its still awesome. Anyways,

Tyler

------------------
85 LT4 GT
Custom Everything
in progress

Any kind of competition wouldn't be complete without some 60 degree v6's, turbo or otherwise, but most likely turbo

Finding/ raceing them ALL STOCK would be the only way to get "real" results.
Sure a hoped up sbc would take a V6

quote Originally posted by revin: Sure a hoped up sbc would take a V6

I don't necessarily agree with that. Because it appears that most SBC owners are afraid or maybe I should say reluctant to stand on their go pedal from a standing start. If they did they would probably be smoking there tires in place as the other swap leaves and beat them to the finish line.

Tho I don't think that's the case with the 4.9 mated to the Caddy automatic.

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: I don't necessarily agree with that. Because it appears that most SBC owners are afraid or maybe I should say reluctant to stand on their go pedal from a standing start. If they did they would probably be smoking there tires in place as the other swap leaves and beat them to the finish line. Tho I don't think that's the case with the 4.9 mated to the Caddy automatic.

You obviously don't know too much about a SBC Fiero, they don't sit there smoking, they plant you in the seat hard. Putting the tires up in smoke is a deliberate action forced by the driver. That's the beauty of the mid-engine configuration, you do have some weight assisting the rear tires in grip.

Just because there aren't many member's beating the crap out of their cars to prove things to people on this Forum, doesn't mean there aren't fast. As someone mentioned, once you get a 'true street' Fiero into the 12's or even low 13's, you have a ride that will thrill you every time you take it out. To many people this is satisfaction enough, no need to take it any further, and no need to prove anything to anyone.

Is the SBC the best choice for everyone, of course it isn't, many factors come into play from each individual. Each car on this Forum has it's own character that should be admired, and not thrown into the ring to duke it out with another member. One event does not expose all the assets of one's car.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-13-2003).]

quote Originally posted by California Kid: You obviously don't know too much about a SBC Fireo, they don't sit there smoking, they plant you in the seat hard. Putting the tires up in smoke is a deliberate action forced by the driver. That's the beauty of the mid-engine configuration, you do have some weight assisting the rear tires in grip.

Cali, you're right but I remain open minded to learn and I appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge and opinions on the SBC as well as all of the other swaps mentioned. That's why I suggested head to head runs which will provide real world results that will go a long way in muting anti SBC sentiments. After all, we'll have access to the strip with our cars so why not?

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: Cali, you're right but I remain open minded to learn and I appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge and opinions on the SBC as well as all of the other swaps mentioned. That's why I suggested head to head runs which will provide real world results that will go a long way in muting anti SBC sentiments. After all, we'll have access to the strip with our cars so why not?

As I've said before on this Forum, most of the members that have done SBC conversions have set their car up for 'all around' driving, not just getting quick quarter times, this goes against you on a quarter mile track, but helps a great deal on the road coarse, and street. The setups for Quarter Mile and Road Course/Street are completely different. Just as an example a V8 Conversion with stock Fireo suspension will run a quicker Quarter Mile than one with the same engine and tricked out suspension set for road course/street. Another matter is that for a high horse V8 to turn a really quick quarter, you must have slicks, street tires just won't cut it at the strip. The tires I'm running have excellent road course/street grip, but I can tell you they slip at Quarter Mile tracks (which by the way most quarter mile tracks won't let you use the water box if you're running street tires, which is another big disadvantage).

I don't know the rules at Milan, but most tracks have regulations that if you run quicker than a 12 sec. quarter, your car requires mandated safety equipment, if you don't have it you can't run. I can't think of anyone here on the Forum that has the required equipment installed in their car. So if Milan has the 12 sec. rules and you run quicker, that could be the end of your day.

Speaking for myself, I'm not going to go through the extensive trouble of making changes/expense to my car after we run at Waterford Hills, to prove a point at Milan Dragway. I don't even have Milan on my schedule, except maybe to go watch the others race. I can't think of one running V8 Fiero on this Forum that's set up for purpose minded Quarter Mile Runs. Sure, they'll run pretty darn quick, but a few changes would make them quicker.

Hey what the heck, we're all going to have some fun, I see very few members that are gunning to beat someone else at this event (well maybe I'm wrong about that one).

Cali, you have made a number of good points including mine. Which is precisely what I was trying to drive home (no pun intended). The point is when you are on the street you run as you are, there is no time to tell the other driver (wait until I adjust my suspension or change my tires). You simply run or not with what you got at the time.

So to me if a car is driven all the way to Pontiac and it post a very good time that car is a better represenative of a real world daily driving car than one that was trailered in with mods just for running the quarter. No?

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 07-12-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: Cali, you have made a number of good points including mine. Which is precisely what I was trying to drive home (no pun intended). The point is when you are on the street you run as you are, there is no time to tell the other driver (wait until I adjust my suspension or change my tires). You simply run or not with what you got at the time. So to me if a car is driven all the way to Pontiac and it post a very good time that car is a better represenative of a real world daily driving car than one that was trailered in with mods just for running the quarter. No? [This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 07-12-2003).]

Nah..........you still don't get it.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: Nah..........you still don't get it.

I think the big point Cali is trying to make is each car is configured differently. To the same end, each engine is configured differently. This most apparent with the SBC. There are so many different types as well as options, one engine to the next will be vastly different. A 250hp LM1 is going to provide totally different performance specs than a LT1/LT4/LS1/LS6 and everything else in between so it would be virtually impossible to quantify the performance of a "SBC". Even weight would be different. A SBC with aluminum heads will weigh quite a bit less than one with cast iron heads. The 3800 Series II SC is a bit more straight forward. There aren't 40 different versions and the upgrade path is pretty clear cut. Enjoy what you have and install what you want.

------------------

www.fieroexcitement.com
Rate me if I've been helpful! :)

quote Originally posted by California Kid: Nah..........you still don't get it.

You're wrong my friend, I get it. But you don't get what I'm saying. Because this would most reveal how your car would probably fair if someone pull up next to you at a light and called you out.

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: You're wrong my friend, I get it. But you don't get what I'm saying. Because this would most reveal how your car would probably fair if someone pull up next to you at a light and called you out.

I believe the point Cali Kid trying to make is that some people drive a fast car setup for the way they drive purely for the gratification of driving a fast car setup for the way they drive and don't care how it compares to other people's fast cars setup for the way other people drive.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 07-13-2003).]

Will, I understand all that and our points are not mutually exclusive. Because there are people that will put their cars on the drag strip even though they are not setup up for it. BTW I'm sure many of those people don't care what others think about their times because they are running their cars just to see how quick their car are in the quarter.

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 07-13-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Will: I believe the point Cali Kid trying to make is that some people drive a fast car setup for the way they drive purely for the gratification of driving a fast car setup for the way they drive and don't care how it compares to other people's fast cars setup for the way other people drive.

Hey Will, that's a mouthful and a pretty true statement. There are very few 12 second cars out there roaming the streets, so there isn't very much worry about getting your a$$ handed to you in a challenge, and even if I did, I'd give the guy a big thumbs up!!! I certainly wouldn't be embarrased by my cars performance. In a Metro area like where I live there are very few places that you can safely do a full 1/4 mile street race (I'll hit 118mph), especially from a light, without getting yourself in a heap of trouble. Going to jail, having my car impounded isn't on my priority list. I'm very selective about who, where, and when I'll take a challenge. If you know you can beat someone, why bother, unless their pestering the crap out of you (or you're very interested about just how fast their car is).

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-13-2003).]

Stock SBC? What about that LT5 Archies gonna swap. Thats stock? Right. Man what a ride it will be!!!!

I'm surprised there hasn't be more post in this thread. It seems most people would rather brag about their car's performance than prove it.

BTW Please don't take the previous statement as a personal comment about ANY PARTICULAR PERSON, I'm referring to people in general.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: If you know you can beat someone, why bother, unless their pestering the crap out of you (or you're very interested about just how fast their car is).

Good point! When you drive a truly fast car, and know it's capabilities, you don't feel the need to prove yourself to everyone who challenges you at a light. When I had my '87 Grand National every 5-oh Muscrat I ran across wanted a piece of me. I got tired of blowing their doors off and just didn't bother. They probably assumed I was scared to race their mighty Ford. Actually, I was bored with them. Funny thing was, in my '72 Trans Am, I got more races even though it was faster than my GN. People assumed it's "just a TA" like it had some smog era 6.6 Litre in it, and not a warmed up 455HO.

I'm not trying to slam anyone. I respect anyone who's made their car what they want it to be, but some people feel they have something to prove, or really want to prove it to someone else. Other people don't care.

Mastermind: I totally see your point. And i know what you are trying to accomplish. Unfortunatly people like Cali could give a shiot less about it. He has already done a swap and doesnt need the info.

Cali: see it from our point of view. We just want to see what is the biggest bang for our buck. We are supposed to listen to elders and have them guide us, eh?

so you see, the problem lies in the fact that some forum members understand but dont want to. LMK mastermind if you ever come to a conclusion. People on this formum like to beat around the bush and not give anyone a straight answer. I have tried to figure out the same question many times, yet no one can produce numbers, and no one wants to.

Lets just all get along ok?
Peace

------------------
Avid Fiero Enthusiast
Daniel Caddell

quote Originally posted by Malakyt: Unfortunatly people like Cali could give a shiot less about it. He has already done a swap and doesnt need the info. Cali: see it from our point of view. We just want to see what is the biggest bang for our buck. We are supposed to listen to elders and have them guide us, eh? so you see, the problem lies in the fact that some forum members understand but dont want to. LMK mastermind if you ever come to a conclusion. People on this formum like to beat around the bush and not give anyone a straight answer. I have tried to figure out the same question many times, yet no one can produce numbers, and no one wants to. Lets just all get along ok? Peace

Hey Dude......Take a look at the number of posts I've had here and search the Archieves for California Kid before you start spouting off.

The biggest bang for the buck in centrally focused on the persons individual needs, wants, and affordability. No one can tell you what is best for "your" needs. All you can do is read alot and make your decisions, that's the main reason for the search feature, as people get tired of repeating information that they have posted numerous times before.

Done with this thread.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-13-2003).]

quote Originally posted by California Kid: Hey Dude......Take a look at the number of posts I've had here and search the Archieves for California Kid before you start spouting off. The biggest bang for the buck in centrally focused on the persons individual needs, wants, and affordability. No one can tell you what is best for "your" needs. All you can do is read alot and make your decisions, that's the main reason for the search feature, as people get tired of repeating information that they have posted numerous times before. Done with this thread. [This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-13-2003).]

What he said. How can someone else tell you what the best thing for you is? Makes no sence. You have to decide what you like and go with it.

My goal is not to put anyone on the spot and/or obligate them to race. However, I was trying to put this idea out to those willing and able to facilitate such a thing. In other words make available the vehicle (pun) whereby those that want to will be able to do so.