Well, I've narrowed it down to those two companies. I have been doing a LOAD of suspension research lately and made the decision to replace EVERYTHING...well, except the cradle mounts. I'll do that at engine swap time.

Anyway, I need some feedback from those of you who have purchased and use the control arms/coilovers from these two companies. I saw Purple Reign's thread and shots of the RCC setup. A little more verbal detail would be great. I'd like to make some kind of comparison based on real-world installation and use before I drop 2K. From looking at their sites, the HMS ones appear to be a little beefier, but I'm not sure. Also, who is using the UHMW bushings? They look very promising but I was wondering what the word was on those.

Thaks in advance for any information.

There is a couple more up close pics just posted. I was in your shoes not long ago, I went with the RCC setup cause it was cheaper and pretty much had the same asthetics. I have 300 miles on the car now and absolutly love the suspension. the only thing I would change is the front coilover height to the bump stop. Cause I like mine so low with the 19's i now only have about 3/4 of an inch of shock travel ( equivalent to about 2+ inches of wheel travel. Aside from that I have never driven a Fiero so solid like it's on rails. Then i was concerned about ride quality. Since it is such a wild project I thought it was to be expected to ride stiff liked one of those pimp rides. Not the case !!!!???? this thing rides like a cadillac!!!!!!! no joke, it has a more solid comfortable ride like an 88. The total kit was around $1500 and WELL worth it. LMK if you need any other help.
Also I've never felt a Fiero so solid at high speed. I had my somewhat stock 87 GT up to 125mph and if feels a little unstable & ultra-sensitive, this 87 GT with the RCC feels like I'm doing 30mph instead of 130mph

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 06-20-2003).]

Thanks, PR! That is good info. The overall stance I am going for is a 2" drop on 17" wheels. I value handling over power. I see a lot of guys put thousands into an engine swap and STILL have a crappy driving car. That's not where I want to be. It sure sounds like I'm headed in the right direction with the complete upgrade. Thanks again for the valuable info.

I bought the 11.3 inch brake kit from HMS with 1.5 inch drop spindles for over $1800. The list of the many, many, many, things wrong with the kit was ludicrous. To keep things short and sweet I will tell you the top three things.

1. Spindle holes for ball joints and tie rod ends were overbored, causing the castle nuts to be nearly 1/4 inch away from the cotter pins. The castle nuts back off constantly. When I asked about this defect I was told to shim them with washers. That would be 3 to 4 washers per ball joint/tie rod end.

2. Brake pads do not sit fully on the rotor. There is over 1/4 inch of overhang. When I asked about this defect I was told that the kit was designed like that and I should be happy with it.

3. The extremely heavy rotors are not hub centric and do not come with hub centering rings, causing massive vibrations at speeds over 70 mph. Although asked repeatedly about this defect, no answer was even attempted.

HMS is overpriced, low quality, and impossible to contact in a reasonable amount of time. Although the new owner has always been extremely friendly, friendliness has not been able to get my car back on the road. I have never been more disappointed in a purchase in my entire life. That includes the bad shellfish I ate in '96.

Purple, you've got a pm!

quote Originally posted by 87GTSleeper: ...well, except the cradle mounts. I'll do that at engine swap time.

If you want your car to handle, you should do the cradle bushings sooner rather than later.

Held has some tempting stuff, but if I had a second chance I would go elsewhere. I purchased coil-overs, front tube arms, and sway bars front and rear. The front sway bar they have designed is bent incorrectly, which will rub and eventualy break loose at the end links. After a very long process of investigation, I opted for a refund on the front sway bar that took a month to get. Dave was helpful when he responded to you, but the lack of knowledge in his product, and his reluctancy to compensate me for the hours in the shop spent trying to fix his problem turns my head away.

quote Originally posted by fierogt88: I bought the 11.3 inch brake kit from HMS with 1.5 inch drop spindles for over $1800. The list of the many, many, many, things wrong with the kit was ludicrous. To keep things short and sweet I will tell you the top three things. 1. Spindle holes for ball joints and tie rod ends were overbored, causing the castle nuts to be nearly 1/4 inch away from the cotter pins. The castle nuts back off constantly. When I asked about this defect I was told to shim them with washers. That would be 3 to 4 washers per ball joint/tie rod end. 2. Brake pads do not sit fully on the rotor. There is over 1/4 inch of overhang. When I asked about this defect I was told that the kit was designed like that and I should be happy with it. 3. The extremely heavy rotors are not hub centric and do not come with hub centering rings, causing massive vibrations at speeds over 70 mph. Although asked repeatedly about this defect, no answer was even attempted. HMS is overpriced, low quality, and impossible to contact in a reasonable amount of time. Although the new owner has always been extremely friendly, friendliness has not been able to get my car back on the road. I have never been more disappointed in a purchase in my entire life. That includes the bad shellfish I ate in '96.

I have several customers running into the exact same problems you have.

On the subject of the overbored spindle holes: Way back when Darrel Armstrong started that company as "Formula One" I had the same problem with both suspensions I got from them. Then when Darrel renamed the company to Ryanne the same quality problem was on the next 2 systems I installed. Now with the Helm boys, I understand that the problem still hasn't been addressed. Everytime I've had this problem I've complained to them and explained how to buy and use a "taper gage" & it seems that no one cares. It's such a simple quality issue to solve but no one cares.

That's why I don't buy or install their stuff anymore. I use the RCC stuff. I have a couple of re-occuring quality problems with them too but they are problems I can work around to correct as soon as I get their parts.

In my previous life I was a QA manager in Aircraft and I cannot understand why companies that sell items in this high price range can't pay a little more attention to quality. After all, you shouldn't have to do repair work to something you just paid $2K for.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: I have several customers running into the exact same problems you have. [snip] After all, you shouldn't have to do repair work to something you just paid $2K for. Archie

So is HMS making things right with your customers? Am I the only one getting the shaft?

quote Originally posted by fierogt88: So is HMS making things right with your customers? Am I the only one getting the shaft?

No & No

Thank you. As sad and selfish as it is to say, it makes me feel much better to know I'm not alone.

Thank you, gentlemen! That was EXACTLY the kind of info I was looking for. Purple Reign's RCC setup looks sweet AND he gives it rave reviews. I appreciate you guys sharing your experiences with me. I'm gonna start ordering some RCC stuff. Thanks again for your input.

Do any of you have experience with the UHMW bushings? Archie, ever build one using those? I'm concerned about poly squeak and such. Are they worth the money, you think?

I've been curious about using a combination of Held and RCC parts.

I like the Held upper coil over mount because it's much more of a bolt on (if not completely bolt on) installation, but I like RCC lower control arms because they are adjustable for caster which reduces dependence on the Fiero's lack-luster stock caster adjustment system.

I'm not concerned about the Held drop spindles. They look like a scatter-brainded design anyway (kinda like the RCC bump steer kit).

I'm looking into Street Dreams spindles.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-24-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Will: I've been curious about using a combination of Held and RCC parts. I like the Held upper coil over mount because it's much more of a bolt on (if not completely bolt on) installation, but I like RCC lower control arms because they are adjustable for caster which reduces dependence on the Fiero's lacluster stock caster adjustment system. I'm not concerned about the Held drop spindles. They look like a scatter-brainded design anyway (kinda like the RCC bump steer kit). I'm looking into Street Dreams spindles.

I agree with your assessment except that I wish RCC would put a larger heim joint on that lower castor adjustment. It looks frail to me.

Archie

A new suspension with coil overs and drop spindles was going to be my winter project. Now i'm not so sure..

quote Originally posted by Archie: I agree with your assessment except that I wish RCC would put a larger heim joint on that lower castor adjustment. It looks frail to me. Archie

That's one of the issues I had with their bumpsteer kit. The rod-ends are small and cheap. I've got $25/ea replacements in there now.

quote Originally posted by Will: If you want your car to handle, you should do the cradle bushings sooner rather than later.

100% accurate.......................

quote Originally posted by Archie: I have several customers running into the exact same problems you have. On the subject of the overbored spindle holes: Way back when Darrel Armstrong started that company as "Formula One" I had the same problem with both suspensions I got from them. Then when Darrel renamed the company to Ryanne the same quality problem was on the next 2 systems I installed. Now with the Helm boys, I understand that the problem still hasn't been addressed. Everytime I've had this problem I've complained to them and explained how to buy and use a "taper gage" & it seems that no one cares. It's such a simple quality issue to solve but no one cares. That's why I don't buy or install their stuff anymore. I use the RCC stuff. I have a couple of re-occuring quality problems with them too but they are problems I can work around to correct as soon as I get their parts. In my previous life I was a QA manager in Aircraft and I cannot understand why companies that sell items in this high price range can't pay a little more attention to quality. After all, you shouldn't have to do repair work to something you just paid $2K for. Archie

As a "quality" person myself, I completely understand your frustration.

i was so going to give held my buisness, but now there is now way in #ell that their getting it. Besides i can get a whole setup (front and rear coilovers, shocks and lower rear tubular controll arms and front tubular controll arms and all of the bushings to mount it) for 1500 at RCC, i dont think that thats close to abtainable at held..

Thanks guys!

So what is the address for rcc because i was looking in to buying hms rear coil over kit. For my 88

J Sokol

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quote Originally posted by Fieroking: So what is the address for rcc because i was looking in to buying hms rear coil over kit. For my 88 J Sokol RCC Specialty Products, 5609-C Parker Henderson Rd, Fort Worth, TX 76119 817-536-3820

How do the tubular control arms affect the installation of a rear swaybar?

quote Originally posted by 87GTSleeper: How do the tubular control arms affect the installation of a rear swaybar?

Provisions are made for front & rear sway bars just like factory control arms.

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Provisions are made for front & rear sway bars just like factory control arms.

Thanks! I went back to your thread and saw a pic of the mounting point. It's a done deal. I'm getting the stuff from RCC. Might have to put in a little overtime...

I've had my full RCC suspension running on my daily driver for about 3 years and absolutely love it! It did take a bit of time to get it all adjusted right (consider suspension jacking, as in unequal springloads/adjustments). Unfortunely, the car is now for sale including the near perfect 4.9 motor sitting in my garage. I'm at work right now so I don't have any pics but just do a search of my user name and RCC here and in "Tech", including the archives for a lot of info.

Black 87 GT, 5-speed, runs strong and excellent. Overall condition is very good, ice cold R134 A/C, wing, Borla exhaust, Big red sway bars front and rear, "16 Beretta GTZ wheels on 225/50/16 and 245/50/16 with good tread. etc, etc.

[This message has been edited by Wade87GT (edited 06-24-2003).]

I just purchased and installed the HMS 88 cradle adapter kit w/ KYB struts. I had zero problems and recieved the parts within the 3 week time frame Lee gave me. I have installed several frt 84-87 Coil over kits w/ tubular a-arms from HMS as well and never had any of the problems listed above. HMS isnt cheap, though. I spent $500 for the cradle adapters/coil overs and KYBs.

Steven

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'02 Subaru WRX 14.61@91.87mph bone stock
'87 Fiero GT 4.9/4T60e, ZEX nitrous 65hp shot, 88 cradle w/ coil overs, Poly everything, Upgraded sway bars, 16X7 M11's, 11.25 "Zettner" front brakes, Complete MSD ignition w/ 6AL box, Custom 3" SLP exhaust, Grand Sport Corvette paint, Carbon fiber interior trim, '98 T/A CD w/ ETR, Reverse Indiglo guages, Pillar mounted AutoMeter O2, Hella H4 conversion and maybe someday it will be done!

Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.